The Contrast between Contrasting Screens' Contrast - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 162 Old 07-17-2007, 01:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynical2 View Post

MM, we haven't had the pleasure of formally meeting (online), but I will pray for a speedy recovery for your sister. And congrats on the granddaughter! Busy month with more to focus on (pun intended) than making screens, eh?

Yes. Such stuff comes at you fast, and in clusters. Not to make things easy, I toted the new Mother and Grand Daughter along so I could claim "Suspender PoPPin' Rights" as the new "Poppa" (nickname given my by other Grand Son) In my family (8 Sis'es - 2 Bro-s ) the "Lil Skirt" (Aubree Grace) is the first "Pinky" in the family in 25 years.

And there is still lots more to come between now and month's end. This coming week will see most, if not all the pieces come together for the Ambient/Contrast Comparison. Please, all ya all bear with me a bit. No way it's NOT gonna happen.

Gonna post a Pic of Aubree here soon.

..............and here it is.



(sorry.........no "Sis" pics. Too gruesome....ya just don't wanna go there! )

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #152 of 162 Old 07-17-2007, 05:35 AM
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Hoping for a speedy recovery for your sis....

The forums sure have been quiet, what with Benven slowing down his bumps while you were gone and no cluster of new threads now that the Tid has gone....


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post #153 of 162 Old 07-17-2007, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

Hoping for a speedy recovery for your sis....

The forums sure have been quiet, what with Benven slowing down his bumps while you were gone and no cluster of new threads now that the Tid has gone....




This sort of thing happens. Don't fret. There's always something brewing in someone's noggin'. Questions to be posed, help to be offered, and ideas to be considered and initiated.

But those Bumps and Clusters? Sounds like a rash.

Fans of Tod can find him elsewhere on at least two other Forums re-posting everything he did on this Forum. I don't think anybody on here wishes him anything but good wishes on his effort to spread his overview of DIY amongst as many people as he possibly can. The effort is certainly a enthusiastic one.

Really......., a rash isn't all that serious a problem, but if it itches..........don't scratch at it too hard. You might make it bleed.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #154 of 162 Old 07-23-2007, 05:21 AM
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Things are speeding up again. Bump!

And, I do hope your sister is doing well.

Meow.
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post #155 of 162 Old 07-23-2007, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that expression of concern, Benven.

Unfotunately, Sis's right Groin Lymp node has swollen to most "tennis ball" soze, indicating a deep infection. It's back to the Hospital for 4 days of IV ' antibotics and if that doesn't do it, the foot and 8" of Ankle/Leg will have to go. She can't handle infection due to having had prior Chemo treatments for Rumatoid Arthritis, and those having suppressed her Immune system, so the Doc might have to play it safe after 2 weeks of Meds not working.

The Test/Comparison Lives, but It can't really be called a Shoot Out because it's primary purpose is to observe the differenes in CR Levels between various paints. That, and I don't think my trying to prove "whats Better / Best" through my own commentary would be productive, so I hope to have everyone post to a poll, then make comment themselves on the pertinent Thread.

Guessing, I'd venture to say by week from Friday / Saturday at most.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #156 of 162 Old 08-02-2007, 05:23 AM
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Bump. Progress report on the comparison testing.

Meow.
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post #157 of 162 Old 08-07-2007, 08:35 PM
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Has this project been cancelled?

I hope not!
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post #158 of 162 Old 08-11-2007, 06:42 PM
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Hey SBWillie, maybe you can get MM to get this done for us. This bumping is getting borrrrring. And your tip on my signature isn't working either. What's going on??

Meow.
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post #159 of 162 Old 08-18-2007, 07:07 PM
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I figured it was time for the weekly BUMP.

Deja Vu anyone!
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post #160 of 162 Old 11-15-2007, 07:37 AM
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I'm offering a BUMP to this thread for any newcomers that want to gain some understanding into contrast. It's a long read but contains a lot of good insights.


Bud

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post #161 of 162 Old 01-15-2010, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

I'm offering a BUMP to this thread for any newcomers that want to gain some understanding into contrast. It's a long read but contains a lot of good insights.

I concur.


FTR, every mix I use is a "cobbled together" version of Silver Fire (BF) not a Mfg version. I love to customize screen performance for the situation, and readers of this thread who want to do likewise can but ask to receive such help.

The upcoming pictures are meant to show in no uncertain terms the "Real Life" results of using a correctly configured Ambient Light Mix. The screen shown has an abundance of light coming to it from the PJ (2200 Lumens) so if sheer Lumen oriented "Horsepower" has any value to making a "WHITE" screen viewable in ambient light situations, it should show up here. Or not.

The first Screen example below is a 140" diagonal Light Fusion screen with a very Dark Gray Hued "sprayed" coating of what we will call (...for sensibility sakes...) Silver Fire. It's constitution is identical to the SF formula "FIRST" posted under that name, only 'darkened by the use of more "colorant" than is advised in that formula.

It's really just that simple to accentuate or restrict the potential of the "Ambient Performance" via "darkening....but that should only seem obvious, I would think.



Previously Posted on another Thread.



As you can see in the shot above. taken in very high ambient light, the screen's surface is darker than virtually anything that has been seen on this Forum, save Bud's whimsical but revealing "Ebony BLACK" screen experiment.

But both have much in common indeed.

The PJ being used was a $1300.00 - 3000 lumen DLP Presentation PJ (Sanyo)
It was almost 22' away from the screen to be able to deliver a 140"+ 16:9 image, so between the darkness of the screen's surface, the size of the screen, and the throw distance, the lumens hitting the screen were in no way overstating their presence. This is born out by the following images.

Previously Posted on another Thread.


Previously Posted on another Thread.


Previously Posted on another Thread.



Now for some "Comparison Shots'

The "mounted and trimmed" Light Fusion Screen seen below is a 4 year old "WHITE" MMud 1:1:1 Mix HVLP sprayed onto a 54" x 96" Mirror. It is serviced by a Studio Experience 20-HD ( aka; Sanyo PLV-70)

Previously Posted on another Thread.




Having no effective way to place the Test strip flat against the Screen, I had to use a Chair against the Screen/Test Panel.

The next shot shows the Test Strip I recently made as seen in the "Wagner for MississippiMan?" thread. It is a "lightened version" coming directly from the same batch of paint that the first example above was painted with. Only a small amount of UPW was added to effect the lightening required, and this was done because the Test Strip seen was painted at the same time a full size screen also received the sprayed SF paint. Only the PJ being used for that situation was a PLV-Z4....and being 1000 lumens w/5000:1 CR, it's hardly in the same league as the 2200 lumen PLV-70/20-HD w/900:1 CR. There are some crazy differences between the two PJs.

But this IS a thread about achieving real and noticeable gains in perceived Contrast off the screen, so whatever works for 1100 lumens should still work better than "White" for a 2200 lumen PJ.




Now comes the "Meat". The series of shots show below in the collage are:

(...first two shots taken in identical "Low Ambient" light...)

Top Left: Note Guitar Fret Board below left hand with Hot Spotting and no detail
Top Right: Note Guitar Fret Board with "NO" Hot Spotting and recovered detail
Center Left: Full Stage shot in Low Ambient lighting (Open Curtains)
Center right: Full Stage shot Close-up in Low Ambient lighting (Open Curtains)
Bottom Left: Full Stage shot in High Ambient lighting (Open Curtains & six Can Lights x 100watts)
Bottom Right: Full Stage shot Close-up in High Ambient lighting (Open Curtains & six Can Lights x 100watts)



In the High Ambient Light shots, even though there is still a noticiable effect on the SF strip from the high ambient light level, it is very apparent that there is also a considerable improvement over the MMud LF Screen. And the "Dark Room" shots show just as considerable an improvement in perceived Black levels as well.[/quote]

Quote:


I will continue to show the contrasting difference between the contrast available before and after a ambient light solution is employed, and the improvement such a solution can offer even when ambient light is not present. I've chosen to use video examples with very different attributes and quality levels. The Eagle's Tour photo clips show are not of very high resolution due to a poor Video to DVD transfer, so shots taken of close ups or distant "non-zoomed" images are fairly grainy or slightly out of focus. A little fault can be found in my own needing to use the couch's back to prop the camera. Even so, the pictured end results speak quite clearly.


You all recognize this room as being the room featured above. Something important has changed, but even so, very little has changed because of it. This much I will hint at. The luminosity of the PJ has dropped a bit, from a high of 2200 lumens coming from a PLV-70, all the way down to 700 lumens coming from..........hmmmmm?




Heres a full frontal in high ambient light.



This next shot is taken in a light controlled setting, and is quite vibrant as pointed out.




In the following shots, the Spot lighting in the Video is really bright on the singer, with a yellow colored spot in the second image that was really blasting his forehead in the second shot. All these shots were taken in the dark.
.





The obvious cannot be overstated when observing what is seen in this collage. Even in the ambient light shots, the image seen within the "Strip" is very watchable and basically color correct.



These close-up shots of a Red Guitar show both the loss of detail that comes from a white surface that is receiving even a very contrastive image in not only ambient light, but even in the dark as well. many say "White is just alright", but obviously, it leaves something to be desired....or missing rather. The last two shots are close up "crops" of images taken in the highest possible ambient light in the room.



Now a little bit of Cartoon Contrast Comparison. The center of the image is the full sized MM-LF w/test strip, while the perimeter "dual shots" feature a variety of "with/without test strip" dark room images, as well as ambient combos. (I was trying to save space.)





Ok, now what is different from the first round of images that opened this Thread?

Well, as I said before, the hint was that non-calibrated lumen output had dropped by over 100% from 2200 to 700. However, the PJ's Contrast has increased from 900:1 to 15,000:1.

Oops. That gave it away, didn't it? Doesn't the PJ below look a little "Blacker" than the PLV-70 poster earlier?



Yep, the PLV-70 just got replaced by a JVC DLA-HD1. yY wouldn't think there would still be such a difference to see, at least in the dark Room shots, or if any difference was there, one might expect a severe amount of image degradation due to such a substantial drop in available lumens as seen on such a dark screen surface. Is "Fusion" helping? I have always found it to be so....more so when a dark but translucent coating is used. But if it is not, then the SF coating is doing quite a job all on it's own in boosting the Cr of Colors, rejecting the worst effects of ambient light, all the while helping to augment the light received without hot spotting. Those are three very conflicting attributes seldom combined together in one screen.

Comments are welcome.

...................and not just from Bud.


To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #162 of 162 Old 01-15-2010, 12:10 PM
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I promise I wont post. Opps I guess I just did.

Nice comparison MM

For the newbies start at post 1.


Bud

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