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post #331 of 756 Old 01-08-2008, 04:37 PM
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Thanks for this great thread. I sprayed out my screen about a week ago. I tried following the directions as close as possible. Spraying is definitely the way to go. Quick rundown on materials/construction.

I used 5/8ths MDF (49' x 88') for the screen with french cleats on the rear. This made hanging the screen a snap.

I thinned the Kilz2 about 25% - sprayed about 4 coats and sanded between. I then sprayed the glaze - 1 quart of the faux glaze, 2 ounces of Delta silver and 25% distilled water. My experience with the glaze was that it went on very easily. I put on very light coats (almost dusting). I found that because of the light dusting, I was able to spray another coat on in about 20 to 25 minutes. I probably put on about 15 coats (I guess similar to what DevonS did). I used flat black to trim the edges of the MDF - makes the screen appear to be floating.

Results: I am very pleased. Really came out much better than I had imagined. I would agree that this has to be sprayed (not rolled). I don't know if I can really see the metalic in the paint - or maybe I didn't mix right. Although I put on 15+ coats - they may have been to thin - but I felt at the time if I sprayed any heavier it would start to run. I probably didn't wait long enought between coats - but I just couldn't wait any longer! I'm not for sure if I did everything right but for my first DIY screen - I coudn't be more pleased. I working on the masking (attached to the wall) and should have it up over the next few days. I'll take some pictures & try to post.

Special thanks to CMRA and MississippMan for all of the information and time spent posting.
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post #332 of 756 Old 01-09-2008, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazos123 View Post

Thanks for this great thread. I sprayed out my screen about a week ago. I tried following the directions as close as possible. Spraying is definitely the way to go. Quick rundown on materials/construction.

I used 5/8ths MDF (49' x 88') for the screen with french cleats on the rear. This made hanging the screen a snap.

I thinned the Kilz2 about 25% - sprayed about 4 coats and sanded between. I then sprayed the glaze - 1 quart of the faux glaze, 2 ounces of Delta silver and 25% distilled water. My experience with the glaze was that it went on very easily. I put on very light coats (almost dusting). I found that because of the light dusting, I was able to spray another coat on in about 20 to 25 minutes. I probably put on about 15 coats (I guess similar to what DevonS did). I used flat black to trim the edges of the MDF - makes the screen appear to be floating.

Results: I am very pleased. Really came out much better than I had imagined. I would agree that this has to be sprayed (not rolled). I don't know if I can really see the metalic in the paint - or maybe I didn't mix right. Although I put on 15+ coats - they may have been to thin - but I felt at the time if I sprayed any heavier it would start to run. I probably didn't wait long enought between coats - but I just couldn't wait any longer! I'm not for sure if I did everything right but for my first DIY screen - I coudn't be more pleased. I working on the masking (attached to the wall) and should have it up over the next few days. I'll take some pictures & try to post.

Special thanks to CMRA and MississippMan for all of the information and time spent posting.

Thanks for the kind words and all the effort applied. I've been watching on S-I-L-V-E-R since May 2006 and never looked back. StudioTek? Who's that?
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post #333 of 756 Old 01-10-2008, 12:17 PM
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Has anyone used a meter and done a true calculation on the gain already! I would love to know the real value.

I am about ready to buy a friggin' meter and do it myself on my 7 coat wagner S-I-L-V-E-R job.

I am mentally challenging you...so consider yourself mentally challenged

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post #334 of 756 Old 01-11-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcritch View Post

Has anyone used a meter and done a true calculation on the gain already! I would love to know the real value.

I am about ready to buy a friggin' meter and do it myself on my 7 coat wagner S-I-L-V-E-R job.

You need a reference to figure gain. I'm planning on it with my panel when the magnesium carbonate shows up. It's about the same as Designer White Laminate though by eye.

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post #335 of 756 Old 01-11-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quick question. I'm in the middle of spraying right now. I mixed up 1/2 gallon of the glaze along with the 4 oz silver and 20 oz water. This is going on a 98" diag screen. The question is how much paint should I have left when I'm done? Does it take the whole 1/2 gallon or is it closer to half that amount? I just want to make sure I'm putting enough paint down.
Thanks
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post #336 of 756 Old 01-11-2008, 06:24 PM
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Pablo - I only mixed up a quart of glaze, 2-oz silver & water. Although I sprayed (dusted is probably a better word for it) out 15+ coats of glaze, I ended up with about 2/3 quart of glaze left over. Maybe I did it wrong but what I found is that because of the mixture is so thin you have to go very light. The water adds about 25% to the glaze. I would be curious of other feedback on this. I really thought it would take much more paint. Let me know how you come out. I'm not for sure if my coat is thick enough. This is my first screen - I may need to do some spraying. Hope this helps.
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post #337 of 756 Old 01-12-2008, 10:41 AM
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Thanks Brazos. Yea I dont think its going to take much paint, maybe less than a third of the mix. It just takes lots of coats. I dont think I've come close to getting any runs with the glaze and it does dry pretty fast. My problem was I wasnt careful enough with the kilz and I did get some runs there. So anyway I am at 9 coats of SILVER HG right now and I could probably stop cause it looks pretty good. Later.
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post #338 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 03:45 AM
 
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Either of you guys take a flash picture to check for uniformity? I'd love to see it if you did.

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post #339 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 08:16 AM
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mech, take a look at this. I'm about to move this project from the garage to the room. What do you think?
LL
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post #340 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 09:25 AM
 
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WOW! Here it is inverted or as a negative:



It would be interesting to see how it looks with a white light projected from the projector and no flash on the camera!

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post #341 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo M View Post

mech, take a look at this. I'm about to move this project from the garage to the room. What do you think?



Was this photo taken with the camera flash?

If so how far away from the screen were you?
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post #342 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 12:47 PM
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yep, that was with flash from about 12'.

here it is in the room, projector on with white background, no flash.

next is blue background, no flash. all from about 12'
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post #343 of 756 Old 01-13-2008, 12:52 PM
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blue background, no flash
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post #344 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Whoa guys. Are you overdoing the silver?
The application specifically says 6 to 7 duster coats. Lemme know.
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post #345 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 07:56 AM
 
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Pablo,

Does the bright spot follow you around as you move to the left and right? That really seems like some serious hot spotting to me!!

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post #346 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 12:33 PM
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I think you guys are jumping to conclusions based on screen shots. There is no major hotspot and it certainly doesnt follow you around the room. The screen looks great to me. If you want to talk about hot spots you should have seen the untreated thrifty white before it was painted. It was like looking into the sun!
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post #347 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 01:58 PM
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Flashes aren't going to give you much to go on. Realistically, neither is a white or blue screen. It may reveal uneven places or stripes like I had, but that's about it. Watch a damn movie and see how that goes. Be VERY careful of your source material. Something like LOTR or King Kong or a good Pixar flick will tell you more than a blank screen and a flash bulb.

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post #348 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 04:12 PM
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I want to thank all the AVS'ers who contributed to the silver thread along with a special thanks to the obvious suspects CMRA and MM. All in all it really is amazing how far DIY home theater has come in the last five years due to the great people on this forum.

DIY screens can and will be improved upon in the future but I think spraying will definitely be part of it. My theory is that whatever the technology, the last ten percent of improvement is a bitch to achieve. Eventually you just have to go enjoy some HD and stop worrying about it. So take a look at these meaningless screen shots from a Sharp DT-500 at a 12' viewing distance on my silver hg screen in a totally light controlled room. Thanks again to those whose input made SILVER happen.
LL
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post #349 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 04:15 PM
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three more and I'm done. Sharp DT-500, 12' viewing distance, silver hg screen, total light control.
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post #350 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 04:33 PM
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CMRA - You might be right - I might of overdone the silver & all the coats past 6 or 7 might have been overkill. The biggest change was in these first 3 or 4 coats. I dusted more because it seemed on so thin. I was also running the Wagner dialed down (probably down to 30%) so it was going on very light - really dusting it. I had the screen set up in my garage with everything masked off - so adding more coats wasn't a problem.

I'll try to post a couple of pictures after I read how the best way to shoot the screen is. My screen actually seems more white than what Pablo M ended up with. I don't have any hotspots and the screen seems to have sprayed out very evenily - no stripes. I have used an airless sprayer many times but this was the first for the small Wagner. I can hold up a white card to the screen and I can difinitely tell it's got a silver tint.

All-in-all - I am very pleased with the screen & the process that is in this thread. I didn't find it overly difficult. I'm using a old projector - Infocus 4805 - but I think this screen does an exceptional job for the projector. Maybe I can upgrade my projector over the next year or so.
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post #351 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 05:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Flashes aren't going to give you much to go on. Realistically, neither is a white or blue screen. It may reveal uneven places or stripes like I had, but that's about it. Watch a damn movie and see how that goes. Be VERY careful of your source material. Something like LOTR or King Kong or a good Pixar flick will tell you more than a blank screen and a flash bulb.

Uh huh. Did I ever tell you it was Mississippi Man who taught me the flash bulb method? And why not recommend a hockey game? Thanks for rewriting the textbook on hot spotting and ways of determination. Tell you know who I said "hi!"

I did 6 duster coats and I get faint hot spotting on my test panel. I recall yours was a lot more un-uniform than mine IIRC. Silver is very strict and very difficult. If you don't follow the guidelines and screw up once you'll be doing it over.

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post #352 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 05:49 PM
 
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Pablo,

You may want to do it over.





I put a circle around what would concern me.

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post #353 of 756 Old 01-14-2008, 11:12 PM
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Pablo,

It looks like you are getting some hot-spotting with your S-I-L-V-E-R HG screen, but you said that you are happy with the result. That is truly all that matters! Enjoy!
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post #354 of 756 Old 01-15-2008, 08:49 AM
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mech... I guess you have an eye for the technical aspects of DIY screens. Personally, when I look at the football player above, I see a football player, not a negative image of a hot spot.

I wasn't rewriting any book. My biggest problem is guys spend too much damn time shining lights and taking pictures and creating negatives of flashbulbs and blue screens and other crap. You build a screen to watch movies. So watch a damn movie! When you're happy with what the picture looks like, you're done.

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post #355 of 756 Old 01-15-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

Uh huh. Did I ever tell you it was Mississippi Man who taught me the flash bulb method? And why not recommend a hockey game? Thanks for rewriting the textbook on hot spotting and ways of determination. Tell you know who I said "hi!"

I did 6 duster coats and I get faint hot spotting on my test panel. I recall yours was a lot more un-uniform than mine IIRC. Silver is very strict and very difficult. If you don't follow the guidelines and screw up once you'll be doing it over.

mech

Thats not what he said but whatever. So are you currently watching on a silver screen or are you just here to criticize?
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post #356 of 756 Old 01-15-2008, 09:49 AM
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I thought we were all here to criticize!

Hey CMRA, just out of curiosity, did you try any other clears such as a polyurethane or deep base when developing the S-I-L-V-E-R solution. It occurred to me that you could do something like mix a flat deep base with the Fauz Glaze to produce a clear medium that had less sheen. This would reduce the gain from sheen. Just curious if you did try anything other than Fauz Glaze and if so why did you reject it?
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post #357 of 756 Old 01-15-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

When you're happy with what the picture looks like, you're done.

No truer words were ever spoken here..


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post #358 of 756 Old 01-15-2008, 08:14 PM
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Alrighty then. Quite the impressive display. How the hell do you watch any shows on that pile of samples? :P

For the record, I haven't heard from Maurice in a few months. You may disagree with his methods or comments, but personally he's been nothing but helpful.

Since this is the S-I-L-V-E-R thread, I won't ask you to post your findings on the ultimate paint mixture, since it obviously isn't this one. I'll do some hunting for your comparsons as I may replace my current screen, or at least create some sample panels *gasp* since I'm still on the fence as to whether I'm completely happy with my results.

Feel free to PM me some links if you like.

Built on a tight budget: The Cheap Seats Cinema
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post #359 of 756 Old 01-16-2008, 01:12 PM
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I just thought I would weigh in on the hot spotting issue.

In the end the only way to know for sure if a screen will hot spot is to put it in front of a projector and shine some white light on it. There may be some variation in brightness across the screen as indicated in the various reviews on the projectors themselves.

If indeed there is a round spot that moves with you as you walk sideways across the screen then that is a hot spot. It can be as small as a foot in diameter on a semi-gloss wall or almost as tall as the screen on a low luster surface.

The use of the camera to get an idea of how likely a screen is to have hot spotting issues is valid but not definitive. Like mech I do use this as an indicator. After many sample panels and a few full screen one gets to recognize when a surface will be prone to hot spot under the conditions you have been subjected to.

Most critical is the distance from the sample that the camera is. Since the projectors are usually 1.5 times the width or more away from the screen then I would suggest that flash photos of 2'x4' panels should be taken around 8 to 10 feet away. But again this is only going to give an indication.

There is also the issue of the ability of the particular camera's flash to cast a wide uniform beam similar to a projector.

So while this is a good aid in recognizing if the screen surface will hot spot, it should not be considered the final answer. For that you need to use the projector.

I would also like to point out that hot spotting may not be an issue for some setups. The hot spot is direct reflected off the screen to the viewer. Therefore ceiling mounted projectors may produce a hot spot on a screen. The same screen with a table mounted projector may not have a problem since the direct reflected location is above the ceiling.

It is therefore possible that one person will have hot spotting while another may not.

As always this may be a reasonable compromise for someone's desire for the brightest possible image. Having said that I feel obliged to point out that where possible hot spotting should be minimized or eliminated by reducing the sheen of the screen surface.

P.S. I was also reminded by MM himself, that he used the camera flash to determine when an adequate number of coats of paint had been applied over the acrylic mirrors used as part of the Silver Fire screen solution.
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post #360 of 756 Old 01-16-2008, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I thought we were all here to criticize!

Hey CMRA, just out of curiosity, did you try any other clears such as a polyurethane or deep base when developing the S-I-L-V-E-R solution. It occurred to me that you could do something like mix a flat deep base with the Fauz Glaze to produce a clear medium that had less sheen. This would reduce the gain from sheen. Just curious if you did try anything other than Fauz Glaze and if so why did you reject it?

"When you're happy with what the picture looks like, you're done."

tiddler, at some point we all come to 'good enough'.

I would suppose there's another ounce or two of goodness to squeeze out of S-I-L-V-E-R. Now, I'm at the point where I just enjoy the movie. Everything just looks right now. Colors seem true, image pops, nice inky blacks, and the screen never calls attention to itself. Looks good with LCD, DLP, even CRT.

When I was 15 my coach once told me "Never change a winning game, only change a losing one." I remember to this day.
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