CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R solution starts here: - Page 13 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 763 Old 01-16-2008, 09:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tiddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

"When you're happy with what the picture looks like, you're done."

tiddler, at some point we all come to 'good enough'.

I would suppose there's another ounce or two of goodness to squeeze out of S-I-L-V-E-R. Now, I'm at the point where I just enjoy the movie. Everything just looks right now. Colors seem true, image pops, nice inky blacks, and the screen never calls attention to itself. Looks good with LCD, DLP, even CRT.

When I was 15 my coach once told me "Never change a winning game, only change a losing one." I remember to this day.

I agree with you whole heartedly!

The question was, had you tried any other clear products before the Faux Glaze and if so why did you reject them?
tiddler is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 763 Old 01-25-2008, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I agree with you whole heartedly!

The question was, had you tried any other clear products before the Faux Glaze and if so why did you reject them?

Sorry for the delay.
I have reported often this is a reworking of the original formulation, circa fall 2003. ONLY the application changed, not the formulation. Other options were nonexistent or unknown of back then.

This isn't to say other options can't work. Have at it.
CMRA is offline  
post #363 of 763 Old 01-27-2008, 12:48 PM
Member
 
Pablo M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I redid the screen with 6 coats of silver over a nice Kilz base. Looks a lot better.
First shot is with flash from 12'. Second is blue screen. Third is white, no flash.
LL
LL
LL
Pablo M is offline  
post #364 of 763 Old 01-27-2008, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tiddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
CMRA,

I noticed that the Behr Silver Metallic is no longer listed in the Faux Finishes on the Behr website. Do you know if they have discontinued it?

If the Behr SM is no longer available then I guess the Delta Silver Metallic has been shown to make a great substitute.

I was wondering if the Behr WOP would be likely to work in this application. This of course would result in a white screen, but some folks may like that.
tiddler is offline  
post #365 of 763 Old 01-27-2008, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

CMRA,

I noticed that the Behr Silver Metallic is no longer listed in the Faux Finishes on the Behr website. Do you know if they have discontinued it?

If the Behr SM is no longer available then I guess the Delta Silver Metallic has been shown to make a great substitute.

I was wondering if the Behr WOP would be likely to work in this application. This of course would result in a white screen, but some folks may like that.

The "Delta" should do just fine. I must have 26 ounces of SM on hand so no worries there.
CMRA is offline  
post #366 of 763 Old 02-11-2008, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo M View Post

I redid the screen with 6 coats of silver over a nice Kilz base. Looks a lot better.
First shot is with flash from 12'. Second is blue screen. Third is white, no flash.

Looks like you are on your way to a nice silver screen. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine.
CMRA is offline  
post #367 of 763 Old 04-09-2008, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

CMRA,

I noticed that the Behr Silver Metallic is no longer listed in the Faux Finishes on the Behr website. Do you know if they have discontinued it?

If the Behr SM is no longer available then I guess the Delta Silver Metallic has been shown to make a great substitute.

.

FWIW, I was at my local HD yesterday and they stocked the 'faux' on the shelf. Old stock?
CMRA is offline  
post #368 of 763 Old 04-16-2008, 07:38 AM
Member
 
Turbo_Tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Atlanta Ga
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Some new pics since I upgraded to bluray......Still love this screen, I'm about to do a new one for a bigger 2.35 scope picture....

S-I-L-V-E-R screen, hd1000 via hdmi from a ps3 spining a bluray disk...

close up



couch view 14' out



I like this one because the camera is shooting willis through the trucks windshield, and you can see the reflection detail in the glass...









I'm watching you, watch me.....
Turbo_Tech is offline  
post #369 of 763 Old 04-16-2008, 05:52 PM
Senior Member
 
BobRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I noticed that the Behr Silver Metallic is no longer listed in the Faux Finishes on the Behr website. Do you know if they have discontinued it?

FWIW, I was at my local HD yesterday and they stocked the 'faux' on the shelf. Old stock?

I was in my local HD today and they had three jars of it left... right alongside of three jars of another silver-colored Behr product called "Luminoso"... same product number (743)... same UPC. The only thing that seemed to be different is that the Luminoso may be finer grained, and therefore slightly smoother.

So did Behr just rename the product, and keep the same basic formulation?

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Blu-ray is Better."
BobRob is offline  
post #370 of 763 Old 04-16-2008, 07:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tiddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRob View Post

I was in my local HD today and they had three jars of it left... right alongside of three jars of another silver-colored Behr product called "Luminoso"... same product number (743)... same UPC. The only thing that seemed to be different is that the Luminoso may be finer grained, and therefore slightly smoother.

So did Behr just rename the product, and keep the same basic formulation?

I found the Luminoso Products on the Behr website. It looks like they just grouped all the metallic paints together under the name Luminoso. There is a "Silver No. 743" listed.
tiddler is offline  
post #371 of 763 Old 06-10-2008, 12:11 AM
Member
 
digitalmonkeyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago Suburban
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Whew, I've read this entire thread, and it is possible I missed my answers, but I have a couple of questions about S-I-L-V-E-R.

I'm painting two screens;

Screen One:
Is a 5' x 8' in a completely light controlled environment, Optoma H31 PJ, and the current screen is Screen Goo Digital Grey Light. I am very pleased with the Goo screen, (I actually did a very good job rolling it and have only one tiny hot spot that only I can notice), but I do find that it lacks the real POP! that I'm looking for when the kids and I are watching movies like Nemo.
I have had plenty of experience spraying, only with airless sprayers though, and have several questions.
First, will S-I-L-V-E-R give me what I'm looking for as far as the POP!, or will it be overkill in my environment?
Second, is using a HVLP sprayer (Wagner Control) much different that using an airless one?
Third, can I just paint over my topcoat of Goo, or is there any special prep I need to do?

Screen Two:
Size TBD by substrate and PJ direction, will be used as backyard theater. Looking in the range of 9' x 12'. Two options here using the same H31 unit. Front PJ or Rear PJ. The screen will be placed against / attached to the shed for support.
First, if doing Front PJ, will S-I-L-V-E-R help counteract the ambient outdoor light, to help the liven up the image?
Second, what would be the most appropriate backer material here?
Third, if doing Rear PJ, (I can open the shed doors and house everything inside away from running kids!), will S-I-L-V-E-R work at all?
Fourth, if S-I-L-V-E-R will work, what backer material would be most appropriate?

Thanks!
digitalmonkeyman is offline  
post #372 of 763 Old 06-10-2008, 07:34 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
For those who have PM'd or posted for a response, I've been spending the last several days with my Son whose on Furlough from Tigrit, Iraq (2nd Lt.)
Before that I've been crazy busy stayin' alive in this economy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalmonkeyman View Post

Whew, I've read this entire thread, and it is possible I missed my answers, but I have a couple of questions about S-I-L-V-E-R.

I'm painting two screens;

Screen One:
Is a 5' x 8' in a completely light controlled environment, Optoma H31 PJ, and the current screen is Screen Goo Digital Grey Light. I am very pleased with the Goo screen, (I actually did a very good job rolling it and have only one tiny hot spot that only I can notice), but I do find that it lacks the real POP! that I'm looking for when the kids and I are watching movies like Nemo.
I have had plenty of experience spraying, only with airless sprayers though, and have several questions.
First, will S-I-L-V-E-R give me what I'm looking for as far as the POP!, or will it be overkill in my environment?


Yes. At 850 (Optoma rated) lumens, you need all the advantages the gain provided by S-I-L-V-E-R can provide a 54" x 96" (16:9) screen. Compared to the GDGL surface, S-I-L-V-E-R will blaze, and deliver far..FAR deeper Black levels.

Honest Cajun.

Quote:


Second, is using a HVLP sprayer (Wagner Control) much different that using an airless one?

Not much, but being a HVLP that uses very thin, water diluted paint, the Wagner will produce a finer mist. That is especially true of S-I-L-V-E-R, and that aspect is essential to obtaining the lack of texture S-I-L-V-E-R demands for the absolute best results. I don't suggest using any sprayer that cannot duplicate the performance of the Wagner.

Quote:


Third, can I just paint over my topcoat of Goo, or is there any special prep I need to do?

Nope and Yep. You'll need to lightly sand the GDGL surface down to a smooth, slick surface, wipe off all dust, then spray 2 coats minimum of a diluted bright Flat White undercoating. Kilz-2 Primer is the suggested paint,

Quote:


Screen Two:
Size TBD by substrate and PJ direction, will be used as backyard theater. Looking in the range of 9' x 12'. Two options here using the same H31 unit. Front PJ or Rear PJ. The screen will be placed against / attached to the shed for support.
First, if doing Front PJ, will S-I-L-V-E-R help counteract the ambient outdoor light, to help the liven up the image?

No. S-I-L-V-E-R is a solution that works best in a dedicated, light controlled environment. It reflects ALL light with equal ability. Unless you going to wait until dark-thirty, S-I-L-V-E-R isn't what you need. But then again, neither is that Optoma, no matter what surface it's hitting. It's just not bright enough to deal with anything but low level indirect ambient light.

Quote:


Second, what would be the most appropriate backer material here?

I'd stay small and cheap. A $12.00 4' x 8' x 1/8" sheet Thrifty White Hardboard cut to 48" x 85" adhered to a second sheet of TWH cut to 90" wise will allow you to use the "Wings' to attach it to the Shed Wall with Flat headed screws/washers. Hand paint the "wings" Flat black, and have a couple "Heavy Duty Velco'd Stick 'em up" Flat Black strips for the top and bottom.


Quote:


Third, if doing Rear PJ, (I can open the shed doors and house everything inside away from running kids!), will S-I-L-V-E-R work at all?

It should if done correctly onto a "Translucent White" sheet of Acrylic Plexi. But it's an unknown....and so being I cannot advise you on such.

But........ iffin' it were me, I'd stick to using Silver Fire Light or SF HG, applied to a "Clear" sheet of Plexi, because both of would have enough opacity to prevent your seeing the PJ Bulb shining through, yet would transfer the image to the other side with almost no attenuation. And SF coatings ARE ambient light resistant. But you really do need a brighter PJ if you need any significant amount of resistance to Ambient Light. With a brighter PJ and a darker SF formula, RP could be spectacular as long as Ol' Man Sol isn't casting his rays directly onto the surface.

Quote:


Fourth, if S-I-L-V-E-R will work, what backer material would be most appropriate?

S-I-L-V-E-R is a "metallic glaze" coating best applied over a totally opaque and reflective white surface, and not intended to be the sole reflective surface. To attempt such would require such a densely concentrated coating that the amount of "silver" would essentially produce a "mirror" effect and result in massive hot spotting.


Thanks![/quote]

Hey.......that's what we're here for!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #373 of 763 Old 06-10-2008, 07:58 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
..........where was my reading comprehension?

...........I just noticed that you want a 9' x 12' surface for outdoors

Forget that. The Optoma has a 1/2 HD chip with just 850 x 480 resolution and combined with just 850 lumens (...more like 350 lumens actually...) you cannot support that size with anything less that a 720p PJ as far as picture quality. (...you could if you sit far enough away for the pixels to meld together, but why bother with the size then...eh? just go smaller and sit closer for the same effect.)

And what I wrote earlier about outdoor ambient light?.....well, all I can say is that at anything approaching that size with the Optoma 31, using S-I-L-V-ER painted onto a composite of 3 vertically arrayed sheets of TWH, and projected during a Cloudy, Moonless night would be best. And that ain't gonna be all that good. (...but better by a stretch than any "White" surface.)Wish I could offer you better news.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #374 of 763 Old 06-10-2008, 10:21 PM
Member
 
digitalmonkeyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago Suburban
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
..........where was my reading comprehension?

That's how I feel after reading so many posts!

...........I just noticed that you want a 9' x 12' surface for outdoors

I'll go with a 8' wide 16x9 just like my indoor, and that might even be pushing it for outdoor, but I can always downsize!

And Thank YOU for all the expert advice, I wish I had all day to just play around and try things out, but alas, I must work, and any experience others can share to save me some pain is appreciated!

digitalmonkeyman is offline  
post #375 of 763 Old 06-12-2008, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

S-I-L-V-E-R is a "metallic glaze" coating best applied over a totally opaque and reflective white surface, and not intended to be the sole reflective surface. To attempt such would require such a densely concentrated coating that the amount of "silver" would essentially produce a "mirror" effect and result in massive hot spotting.


Thanks!

Hey.......that's what we're here for! [/quote]

A better description would be 'suspended particulate'.
The faux glaze suspends the silver and drys to a translucent neutral agent.
CMRA is offline  
post #376 of 763 Old 06-12-2008, 06:47 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:


A better description would be 'suspended particulate'.

...what he said.



To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #377 of 763 Old 06-15-2008, 01:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
mkoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've been reading this thread with interest in possibly doing this silver screen based on many readers results. Why I chose these threads is based on trying to duplicate a screen I have had since the 1980's, but larger. It is a silver screen that was part of an early projection system consisting a hooded lense that was placed on a 13" Sony TV and a switch to invert the image to correct for the lense inversion. It is a 3X4 60" diagonal and is perfectly fine for viewing in that format. It is a curved screen that has very high gain(necessary for this application). I'm using it with an optima HD7100 and a sharp 12000. My problem is when viewing 16X9 or 2.35 to 1 material the screen being a 3X4
reduces the image size. I can adjust the gain by altering the vertical viewing angle.
I can even have a 60 watt lamp in front of it to the side and not get much wash out.

My question is are any of you familiar or had previous experience with this screen technology. Also it looks like a sprayed paint technology. It is quite a screen. Just trying to figure out how to duplicate it is consumming.


If this is too off topic let me know.
mkoss is offline  
post #378 of 763 Old 07-23-2008, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CMRA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Posts: 7,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoss View Post

I've been reading this thread with interest in possibly doing this silver screen based on many readers results. Why I chose these threads is based on trying to duplicate a screen I have had since the 1980's, but larger. It is a silver screen that was part of an early projection system consisting a hooded lense that was placed on a 13" Sony TV and a switch to invert the image to correct for the lense inversion. It is a 3X4 60" diagonal and is perfectly fine for viewing in that format. It is a curved screen that has very high gain(necessary for this application). I'm using it with an optima HD7100 and a sharp 12000. My problem is when viewing 16X9 or 2.35 to 1 material the screen being a 3X4
reduces the image size. I can adjust the gain by altering the vertical viewing angle.
I can even have a 60 watt lamp in front of it to the side and not get much wash out.

My question is are any of you familiar or had previous experience with this screen technology. Also it looks like a sprayed paint technology. It is quite a screen. Just trying to figure out how to duplicate it is consumming.


If this is too off topic let me know.

I bet you thought we all just ignored you. What you speak of is a parabolic display screen very common to 70's and 80's CRT TV projection often referred to as a Torus display. The RPTV replaced it.
FWIW, you'll still find posts here on AVS where members stiil design curved screens. It enjoys an increasing popularity with the CIH 2.35:1 camp.
CMRA is offline  
post #379 of 763 Old 08-28-2008, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
 
BobRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was in my local Home Depot today to buy some deck stain, and noticed that all of the Behr "Luminoso" (Metallic) paints had yellow price tags. I asked the paint guy there about it, and he said a yellow tag means the item is no longer being restocked. Whether this means discontinued at Home Depot only or (since HD owns Behr) discontinued from production altogether, he didn't know.

I grabbed one of the last two jars left.

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Blu-ray is Better."
BobRob is offline  
post #380 of 763 Old 08-28-2008, 09:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRob View Post

I was in my local Home Depot today to buy some deck stain, and noticed that all of the Behr "Luminoso" (Metallic) paints had yellow price tags. I asked the paint guy there about it, and he said a yellow tag means the item is no longer being restocked. Whether this means discontinued at Home Depot only or (since HD owns Behr) discontinued from production altogether, he didn't know.

I grabbed one of the last two jars left.

Such is Life. But not to worry if tis true. I myself have shown that the Behr SM is easily (...and even more effectively...) replaced by Delta's Silver Metallic. The DSM is a crapster load less expensive than the Behr, which is good, but also it produces a bit less "Graininess" due to having much finer (smaller)flakes of Mica.

If you have Eagle Eyes (20/10), or are crowding the screen way too close (under 8 feet), you might see such graininess as a slight case of speckles when bright images like a Blue Sky get 'panned' across the screen, when the Behr SM is used. The BSM's Bigger SM Flakes are the culprit.

That don't EVER happen using the Delta.

I'd take that Jar of "stuff" back, reclaim your $20.00, go spend $4.00 for 8 Oz of the Delta, and even with that you can do 2 complete screens at 4 Oz. DSM to 1 Gallon of Behr Faux Glaze. Come to think of it.....just buy 1- 4 Oz.bottle for $2.00 and with a Gallon, you'll still have enough for 2 Screens at 110" diagonal.

Ya jus gotta luv it!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #381 of 763 Old 08-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Senior Member
 
BobRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Such is Life. But not to worry if tis true. I myself have shown that the Behr SM is easily (...and even more effectively...) replaced by Delta's Silver Metallic. The DSM is a crapster load less expensive than the Behr, which is good, but also it produces a bit less "Graininess" due to having much finer (smaller)flakes of Mica.

Seems to me, and it could just be my imagination, that the "Luminoso" incarnation of Silver Metallic looks like it is indeed finer grained.

OTOH, cheap bastage that I am, I wouldn't be at all opposed to paying significantly less than I did for the SM for an equal or better result.

So where might one locate DSM?

Also, you'd mentioned "Thrifty White Hardboard" in one of your posts. Where is that to be found?

Quote:


I'd take that Jar of "stuff" back, reclaim your $20.00, go spend $4.00 for 8 Oz of the Delta, and even with that you can do 2 complete screens at 4 Oz. DSM to 1 Gallon of Behr Faux Glaze.

I came across a note of yours, I believe, that suggested Behr FG is great for low-lumen LCD applications, but is prone to warm-spotting with higher output projectors. If that's true, is there a better screen formulation and/or process than S-I-L-V-E-R that you'd recommend for a DLP pj (Infocus SP7210) in a light-controlled room?

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Blu-ray is Better."
BobRob is offline  
post #382 of 763 Old 08-30-2008, 07:00 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRob View Post

Seems to me, and it could just be my imagination, that the "Luminoso" incarnation of Silver Metallic looks like it is indeed finer grained.

Well............down yar in de Bottoms, I've yet to see "Luminoso" replace the Old Jars. It may well be a different formula.

I can remember back when (...yawn cue...) I attempted my first SM/MM Screen. A 14' diagonal 16:9 no less. It was Drywall, smoothed and Primed.
I used a underweight capacity Compressor (17 gal.), and a Harbor Freight Cheapo HVLP, You must make note, that at the beginning, I first tried to maintain a "Roll Only" position, (...for all the obvious "easy-cheap- motives....) to illustrate to myself and others the "Satisfaction Index" ideal of producing an impeccable BIG image for less than $10.00 per Go.....Rolling supplies-wise. (THAT is a Pipe Dream if you do "everything" you can to assure success.)

But the mighty and legendary "Ones that Came Before" on Screens Forum had advocated Spraying as the only true way to a perfect finish (...done right, of course....) I occasionally suffered through Roller marks, Sagging, Orange Peel and other unexplainable Texture issues, clumps of paint, defective Rollers (...couldn't be me....) and all the Sanding that had to accompany those PITA's.

So what do I attempt in my inexperience to spray first? Behr Silver Metallic...among the gloppiest of all known paints. Vicious like cooked Sugar, and all "flaky sparkly", I reasoned that a 2.2 mm Tip would let it pass. That, and about 45 psi at the Gun. But the wimpy Compressor couldn't keep up, and I had to stop between every 2 rows and wait for 3 minutes at least before I could continue. If I didn't wait, the reduced air pressure would result in a far too thin deposit of paint. I was not a Happy Camper.

I tell ya, it took me 2 days of spraying to get a SM Base laid down. And when I went to spray the MississippiMud over it? That took as long if not longer, because MMud was worse that the behr SM!

But the finish I got across a 14' diagonal surface was........well, 'almost' a religious experience. Without imperfections or lines, a bit "sand papery" to the touch (...paint was too thick....too much air pressure....thinning came much later.) it previewed here on AVS back in later 2003. It was .....real good. I was sold on the SM/MM application.

But the "Behr SM" experience turned me back off on the idea of spraying, so I continued to advocate the improving of Rolling technique so the Behr SM could go up looking like a sheet of aluminum. (.Hmmmm, there's an idea....)

Had I used a paint like the Delta SM, and thinned the paints with judicious amounts of H2O, who knows where the art of DIY Screen making would have gone on too?

Quote:


OTOH, cheap bastage that I am, I wouldn't be at all opposed to paying significantly less than I did for the SM for an equal or better result.

So where might one locate DSM?

Easiest to find at Artist/Craft Supplies like "Michael's", and Hobby Lobby. I've even see it in the Crafts Dept. at WalMart.

[quote]Also, you'd mentioned "Thrifty White Hardboard" in one of your posts. Where is that to be found?[quote]

Home Depot, in the Hard Board Dept. Check your piece for scratches (most are OK for painting on) It's great stuff at $11.00 for a 4' x 8' x 1/4" glassy smooth Vinyl Laminated substrate. You just "prime" that bright white surface with the Top Coat your using....by applying the first 2 coats as "Dusters" and letting each dry COMPLETELY. Do that, and you have all the "Tack" you need for subsequent "slightly" heavier coats.

Quote:


I came across a note of yours, I believe, that suggested Behr FG is great for low-lumen LCD applications, but is prone to warm-spotting with higher output projectors. If that's true, is there a better screen formulation and/or process than S-I-L-V-E-R that you'd recommend for a DLP pj (Infocus SP7210) in a light-controlled room?

Lemme think about when I spoke /what about I was referring to on that statement.

Actually, that quote might be attributed to CMRA. But if not, it's still true in some, if not all instances. What's a "High Output" PJ? Used to be that the SP7210's 1100 lumens would have been considered such. But the Hot Spotting some encountered back then was due as much to lens design, PJ positioning, and the 'then current' Screen technologies. Be them Mfg/DIY.

Basically, with a big screen that is borderline "retro" reflective due to imparted sheen, if a wide zoom is not accommodated with correct Pj position (...as close as possible), at best one can expect the majority of the surface in the center of the screen to be observably brighter than the edges in screens where differences in the content's brightness is accentuated by Panning actions and the reverse....static images.

Originally and Historically, getting the use of any Glaze down pat has been the Bane of DIY Screen makers. From Day One, it's been an obvious choice for enhancing an image...as were things like Silver Metallic, Aluminum Paint (...I remember people draining cans of Rustoleum and then trying to re-spray or even Roll it!) It's always been the "perfecting" of it's (...their...) use tat was/is the trick.

CMRA has come the closest IMO, to finding the "perfect" balance between what Glaze works best, and the overall ratio of SM to Glaze. Somewhere there might exist a tweak that goes beyond what substituting the Delta SM for the Behr SM brings into play. Or there might be a whole 'nother combo lying in the shadows of someones mind. Muwahahahahah!

get a grip.

The last 7210 I worked with, I used RS-MaxxMudd on a 110"er. A revamped MMud-SE (Silver Edition) composed of Sherwin Williams Luminous White (quart=33%) Delta White Pearl (24.oz = 3- 8 Oz Bottles) 32 oz. Minwax Clear Satin Water based PolyAcrylic, 1 - 8 oz bottle Delta SM, 1 oz from a 2 oz bottle of Folk Art Antique Gold Metallic. 25% added Filtered water. Mix well.

Enjoy with Olive.

Your options are in effect, almost to numerous to list and discuss. Don't get me started.

Most opt for the latest/greatest applications. For you' I do think S-I-L-V-E-R can fit the bill, because I recall that to even come close to achieving the rated 2800:1 "On-Off": CR of the 7210, it had to be on Low lamp mode, and adjusted downward across the board to obtain 65k balance.

S-I-L-V-E-R will help restore the "PoP' without affecting Contrast but in the most positive ways. Making it deeper, the color saturation more lush without blooming, and bring out subtle detail that you haven't seen prior. Whites will blaze when they should, and be natural in all cases.

You just have to get past the spraying part to enjoy all that. And to do that, you practice first. By two pieces of TWH. Splurge a wee bit. First use the backside of one to get your viscosity/distance/speed down pat. The dark brown side will show the thin wetness of the S-I-L-V-E-R's first coat enough to help you judge. because by my experience and reasoning, it's the uncertainty of the quality of the spray job...both early on and into as far along as the 5-6th coat, that makes some look skyward and rolls back their confidence factor.

But be it 7 or 9 coats, it's plainly obvious when your where you want to be. Almost suddenly, at the 7th-8th coat, the Silver Metallic will start really filling in, and the blotchy-nes and striping that freaks some out early on is history.

At that point, the danger shifts to your not stopping, and thereby making the Silver Metallic become too opaque, and hence too reflective...as in Retro. If that happens, you've gone all the way back to SM/MM, and all you can do is spray on a watered down "Re-mix" of S-I-L-V-E-R that includes an additional 4 Oz of UPW or the SWLW .

Of course...I wouldn't know about all that "Oops" stuff.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #383 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 06:02 AM
Mod & Bluray Reviewer
 
Lee Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,344
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 115
So let me, for one last time get this S-I-L-V-E-R paint screen straight in my head

1. No sparklies?? (This is why I am selling my current screen)
2. Accurate color reproduction?
3. 2.0 gain and not overly bright on a PJ that throwing 700real calibrated lumens? (my screen st130 w/1.3 gain can get too bright, I was told this has the gain BUT doesnt kill you by being overly bright...not sure if I understand that, can someone please elaborate?)
4. No hotspotting and an extra wide viewing cone?
5. If all this is true I want to kiss you ALL!!


Lee Weber is offline  
post #384 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 12:22 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by W3bbY View Post

So let me, for one last time get this S-I-L-V-E-R paint screen straight in my head

3. 2.0 gain and not overly bright on a PJ that throwing 700real calibrated lumens? (my screen st130 w/1.3 gain can get too bright, I was told this has the gain BUT doesnt kill you by being overly bright...not sure if I understand that, can someone please elaborate?)

4. No hotspotting and an extra wide viewing cone?

It does not come by way if it's brightness by being Retro Reflective It disperses the light in all directions

Quote:


5. If all this is true I want to kiss you ALL!!

Pucker up. But no tongue, please. Too sloppy.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #385 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 01:07 PM
Mod & Bluray Reviewer
 
Lee Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,344
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It does not come by way if it's brightness by being Retro Reflective It disperses the light in all directions



Pucker up. But no tongue, please. Too sloppy.

hehe

What about 1 and 2??
Lee Weber is offline  
post #386 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 01:47 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Already answered those in the Positive.

Sparklies? The Glaze's job is to mute that tendency.

Color Reproduction? Very accurate, but if anything at all is needed,(PJs do differ) it's a slight attenuation of the color saturation any Silver presents, not accentuation...the latter which is always harder to get correct.

Any more questions, and all you get is a peck.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #387 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Mod & Bluray Reviewer
 
Lee Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,344
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Already answered those in the Positive.

Sparklies? The Glaze's job is to mute that tendency.

Color Reproduction? Very accurate, but if anything at all is needed,(PJs do differ) it's a slight attenuation of the color saturation any Silver presents, not accentuation...the latter which is always harder to get correct.

Any more questions, and all you get is a peck.

Oh I am that guy...who questions and questions and questions....

I want the best and I want it cheap!!!
Lee Weber is offline  
post #388 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 02:06 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Watch who your callin' "cheap".
(I noticed you didn't ask another question though)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #389 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 02:27 PM
Mod & Bluray Reviewer
 
Lee Weber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,344
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Oh i got 1 more..
When are you coming to boston to help me wagner away?


(I hope this really rocks cause the $$ I am saving is buying me a new amp for my audio!!)
Lee Weber is offline  
post #390 of 763 Old 08-31-2008, 02:36 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,090
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Boston, eh?

Sounds like a song cue.............*

..............in the Springtime.

Anyone in Denver or LA wanna climb on board?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off