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post #691 of 763 Old 10-20-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

How does this look speed wise for spraying. The gun and turbine isn't on and I'm not worried about the overlap either, just wanted to make sure the speed wasn't to fast or slow. Thanks guys.

Wow....you weren't kidding when you said you had very little room at the sides to run off and drop. Whatever else, make certain you do get off the edge of the screen or the edge will get much too much paint build up.

BTW, that "Drop" is much too big.....you should be dropping only 2/5ths (...just over 25%...) the height of your vertical pattern....about the height of your Fist on the Handle.

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post #692 of 763 Old 10-20-2013, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Wow....you weren't kidding when you said you had very little room at the sides to run off and drop. Whatever else, make certain you do get off the edge of the screen or the edge will get much too much paint build up.

BTW, that "Drop" is much too big.....you should be dropping only 2/5ths (...just over 25%...) the height of your vertical pattern....about the height of your Fist on the Handle.

The video is a little deceiving on the amount of edge I have to run off on. It's about a 6 inch on each side of the screen that I have to rum off. It's just that my blue painters tape and run off is covered with primer from spraying. Though it looks like I'm painting everything that is white, I'm not. I will need to put up some fresh blue painters tape up though when it comes to painting so I'll know what's the screen and what isn't. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #693 of 763 Old 10-21-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

The video is a little deceiving on the amount of edge I have to run off on. It's about a 6 inch on each side of the screen that I have to rum off. It's just that my blue painters tape and run off is covered with primer from spraying. Though it looks like I'm painting everything that is white, I'm not. I will need to put up some fresh blue painters tape up though when it comes to painting so I'll know what's the screen and what isn't. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Well then....times' a'waistin' ! Get'ter Dun already! My ear has a Cauliflower growth on it, and my finger tips have blisters with all the back-n-forth over the last "several" months. biggrin.gif

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post #694 of 763 Old 10-21-2013, 06:30 PM
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Mississippiman, if i spray some coats and let them dry overnight then start back over tomorrow, Can i treat those new coats, that i start today, like you would with the first 1-3 coats when it comes to dry time??? I know you can give the first 1 to 2 coats less dry time before applying a 3rd and so on?
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post #695 of 763 Old 10-21-2013, 06:41 PM
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Yes....it is only after applying 3 or more consecutive coats that dry times must out of hand increase.

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post #696 of 763 Old 10-21-2013, 07:39 PM
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Okay, remember how when we were talking on the phone the other day and said that when it comes to the amount of water added to the mixture you told me it was 25% water. But the problem i was having with that is when you gave me the prescribed formula for my Graco 3900 you gave me this info:
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

1 Gallon Behr Faux Glaze
8 Oz Liquitex Basics Silver Metallic (Jar preferred)
http://www.amazon.com/Liquitex-Basics-Acrylics-Colors-silver/dp/B002643NXY
16 oz distilled water (to start)

Mix into 2 gallon Bucket w/Lid
Use the Squirrel Cage Mixer (best price... and Free "A-Prime" delivery)
http://www.amazon.com/Homax-69011-1-Gallon-PolyPro-Galvanized/dp/B000ELORFE
After mixing and straining, a test using the Gun determines how much if any more water is required. Also, the size Needle Tip. Using a 2.0 Tip that comes with the Graco, you must absolutely practice quick, rapid Dusters from a specific distance. With a 1.5 mm tip, things are a bit more refined. Dusters are still the order at hand, but the method of applying becomes less frenetic.

Do you have this?
http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Reconditioned-Graco-HV2900-Paint-Station/dp/B005QQ0AFS/ref=pd_cart_recs3

Then take my very best advice and get this accessory 1.5 mm Needle Kit
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BG6DIM/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2NWLOWWF5G7JX

You were telling me to start with 16 oz water. Wouldn't 16 oz be what you wanted to start with if you were making a 1/2 gallon of s-i-l-v-e-r up?? As in:

1/2 gallon Behr Faux glaze
4 oz silver
16 oz distilled water

This is what confused me.

If you wanted to make a gallon plus of s-i-l-v-e-r wouldn't this be the right formula

1 gallon of Behr Faux glaze
8 silver
32 oz water

Wouldn't 32 oz be 25% of the mix?? or is the 16 oz correct??
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post #697 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 06:16 AM
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The math adds up.

It was a typo, but I thought that was already decided and confirmed. Truth be known, over the course of many such builds and sets of instructions, the correctly specified amount has been listed, so discovering the error would have come, should have come easily enough.

The important thing being it has been corrected, so why the question at this point.? It seems redundant to discuss over again.

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post #698 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The math adds up.

It was a typo, but I thought that was already decided and confirmed. Truth be known, over the course of many such builds and sets of instructions, the correctly specified amount has been listed, so discovering the error would have come, should have come easily enough.

The important thing being it has been corrected, so why the question at this point.? It seems redundant to discuss over again.

I was just wanting to double check. Making sure all data was matching up. Just me be overly cautious rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #699 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 08:13 PM
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Okay, mississippiMan. I have made 1 quart of the mix up. I did 1 quart behr Faux, 2 oz silver and 8 oz(25%) of water. Now, if i recall. If i want to add more water over the 8 oz already added, It shouldn't be over 2 tbs(1 oz), maybe 3 tbs to equall 9 oz to 9 1/2 oz of water total for the whole thing. Correct??
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post #700 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 08:20 PM
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You add water only if you do not see the rate of straining be as you know it should be...then only in those small increments.

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post #701 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 08:59 PM
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Mississippiman, what paint mixture were you painting int his video:

http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0033_zpsb656ced9.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1

if it is silver fire or one of the other mixes, weren't you going a little slow for the recommended duster coats??Somebody forgot their breathing mask, lol biggrin.gif
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post #702 of 763 Old 10-22-2013, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

Mississippiman, what paint mixture were you painting int his video:

http://s586.photobucket.com/user/MississippiMaurice/media/PaintingPainting%20Videos/0033_zpsb656ced9.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1

Somebody forgot their breathing mask, lol biggrin.gif

Silver Fire v2.5 4.0

The mask....yeah..I know. I was fixated on getting started...and just jumped in without thinking. I made mention of that too, and in no way do I suggest others be so forgetful.

I had the taste of Silver Fire in my mouth for at least 2-3 hours. frown.gif And i was holding my breath most of the time too. rolleyes.gif

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post #703 of 763 Old 10-23-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Silver Fire v2.5 4.0

The mask....yeah..I know. I was fixated on getting started...and just jumped in without thinking. I made mention of that too, and in no way do I suggest others be so forgetful.

I had the taste of Silver Fire in my mouth for at least 2-3 hours. frown.gif And i was holding my breath most of the time too. rolleyes.gif

I noticed you weren't moving in the 3 feet per second recommendations either biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif . But, If I had to guess, for as long as you've been doing this your good enough that you can move in whatever speed with whatever thickness of coats you want to put down and it will still come out great. 3 feet per second is so newbies like us have less room for error. rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
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post #704 of 763 Old 10-24-2013, 12:41 AM
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I noticed you weren't moving in the 3 feet per second recommendations either biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif . But, If I had to guess, for as long as you've been doing this your good enough that you can move in whatever speed with whatever thickness of coats you want to put down and it will still come out great. 3 feet per second is so newbies like us have less room for error. rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

That is somewhat of a correct assumption, however the absolute correct one is that I was using a smaller needle (1.0 mm) that produced a finer mist.

With any spray pattern, it only takes me a few moments to ascertain how much I can apply and how fast. But it all still falls within a certain parameter. When instructions are given to Noobees, it's best to narrow down the choices, and keep it more refined and less open to personal whims and off-the-cuff determinations.

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post #705 of 763 Old 10-24-2013, 06:33 PM
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MississippiMan. I remember you talking about the new Martha Stewart 10-oz. Polished Silver Metallic Paint instead of the Liquitex silver. If i went with the Martha Stewart paint, would I have to change the formula in anyway?? Of the 2 which one do you prefer?
Also, I guess i want to reword my previous question when it comes to straining .With my 3900 spraystation, and Outside of the initial 8 oz of water what amount of extra water would be TO MUCH?? This 3900 unit seems to like to spit out larger droplets. So far, I've added the 8 oz and 1/2 oz more(1 tbs in other words)
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post #706 of 763 Old 11-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

That is somewhat of a correct assumption, however the absolute correct one is that I was using a smaller needle (1.0 mm) that produced a finer mist.

With any spray pattern, it only takes me a few moments to ascertain how much I can apply and how fast. But it all still falls within a certain parameter. When instructions are given to Noobees, it's best to narrow down the choices, and keep it more refined and less open to personal whims and off-the-cuff determinations.

Okay MississippiMan. I wanted to get a good view of my paint as it hits my substrate and as it dries so I decided to dye my mixture with some red colorant. the current mixture i'm spraying is a quart of Behr faux glaze, 2 oz silver metallic and the initial 8 oz of water plus 3 tbs more of water totaling 9 and 1/2 oz water. I have the 3900 turbine not the 2900 as well. I'm not getting a good duster pattern. its more like a very very light dusting but is has a BUNCH of bigger droppings mixed in with it. I tried it with the gun at 50%, 60%, 70%, 80% and 90% open. The closer i get to the full open the more bigger drops are thrown out. I'm thinking that it's a sign of to much water. what do you think??
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post #707 of 763 Old 11-19-2013, 01:23 AM
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I would adjust the Wheel at the back of the Gun to 50-60%.

You do not have too much water.

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post #708 of 763 Old 11-19-2013, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I would adjust the Wheel at the back of the Gun to 50-60%.

You do not have too much water.

Do you think i should add maybe another tbs of water to see if that helps a bit more???
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post #709 of 763 Old 11-19-2013, 06:32 AM
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That would depend upon how well the mixture is draining through the Filter. And you should reign back the pressure a bit, because the previous applications I did involved using the older Wagner Control Spray HVLP with the small Needle, and that unit had significantly less air flow than the Graco.

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post #710 of 763 Old 11-19-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

That would depend upon how well the mixture is draining through the Filter. And you should reign back the pressure a bit, because the previous applications I did involved using the older Wagner Control Spray HVLP with the small Needle, and that unit had significantly less air flow than the Graco.

I think the Air Flow, my 3900 is putting out, is whats giving me the head ache. I did a batch up while back and It was far more diluted then this batch is. As i diluted the previous mix more to get close to that 10 to 12 inch pattern as well as having the proper straining rate. it did in deed give a bigger spray pattern, it also came with blotches spitting out similar to above, but bigger. I'm beginning to wonder if the key to this mix properly spraying out right is not by thinning the mix out more and more but by starting with the initial 8 oz of water and not go beyond that. I'm just not sure what to do right now. I'm still spraying on test material and not my main screen so I'm okay but eventually i do want to finish this WAY OVERDUE, lol, screen. Advise???
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post #711 of 763 Old 11-20-2013, 12:16 AM
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Excessive Air Flow + a too loose Mix = splatters.

So the obvious next step is to go back to the originally suggested amount of water, strain, and try a lower PSI Flow setting

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post #712 of 763 Old 11-23-2013, 05:44 PM
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I GIVE UP!!! I have done everything i can and this mix wont spray right!! MississippiMan, if i recall didn't you say you had the graco spraystation?? I BEG and implore you, would you please give a go at mixing up a batch of s-i-l-v-e-r and try to get this mix to spray right because i can't.!!! I decided to give it one last go and it has left me frustrated andI'm so tired of all the time I've spent with this and no go. I decided to give it one last go this weekend and this is what i did.
If you remember i'm using the graco 3900 spray station. I mixed up another batch of a quart of s-i-l-v-e-r. I used 1 quart behr faux glaze, 2 oz liquitex silver and instead of 8 0z water I actually started with 4 oz and worked my way up just to see how starting with less water would effect the mix. Also,So I could get a better look at how the mix is spraying and laying down, i put in little bit of dye in it. I started with 4 oz water, light dusting but with slightly thicker and bigger drops all mixed in. I then proceeded by going up in increments of of 2 tbs(1 oz) each time till I reached 12 oz!! Every time i added a bit more water it ended up with a wider pattern, yes, but with bigger drops!!! I even went to Lowe's and bought a 2900 unit to see if the issue was with my spraystation. I just hooked up the 2900 to my gun and hose since i want to take it back morrow but even with the slightly smaller air from the 2900 my mix still would spit out larger drops! Multiple time, I also dialed the trigger on the back of my gun to lessen the amount of paint entering the gun and that had NOOOO effect on lessening the amount of bigger drops were being shot out. I couldn't get a good duster. Even when I actually put down about the 7 coats requirements for the s-i-l-v-e-r, I could barely see any build up..YET...when i shined my projector on it it Hot spotted from the build up of those few bigger drops.
I've done everything I can think of. I've cut down on the amount painting from the paint dial, cut back on the amount of water, increased the amount of water and everything in between but I'm done!! Would you be able to give a go at this PLEASE MississippiMan and see if it will work for you and if you do PLEASE let me know how. I appreciate all the help you've giving me but I've spent more money then I've wanted to and TON'S of time and need help.
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post #713 of 763 Old 11-23-2013, 07:58 PM
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Okay...I've regained my composure, lol. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif seems with using the 3900, and the air pressure it sends out, is what's reeking havoc and giving the me the struggle that I'm getting. My current mixture is 1 quart behr faux glaze, 2 oz liquitex silver and a total of 10 oz. water( 8oz to start and 4 tbsp. more added). Due to the air pushing through my system, I don't have to have the dial open on the back of the gun very much before It messes things up. So, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to have to keep my paint flow dial, on the back of the gun, kept at a 30% to 50% max open. I know that changes things up but If I open it any more then it's going to send out way to many bigger drops. With this in mind, what changes do I need to make in spraying, pertaining to speed and distance and what not??
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post #714 of 763 Old 11-24-2013, 08:24 AM
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S-I-L-V-E-R is indeed the loosest Mix around, and getting the air pressure-to-paint viscosity index correct is essential. As I stated before, I always used a Wagner CS (old model) with the much smaller Needle / Air Ouput than the DD or Plus units, and to duplicate that with a Graco one needs to use at maximum the 1.5 mm needle and 50% air pressure.

Once that has been done...as you seem to have done...the simple observance of the height of the spray pattern and the density of the paint exiting the Gun, you usually would just move slightly further away from the surface to obtain at least a 10" tall pattern. Overlap is still held to 70%. But you DO NOT SLOW DOWN in going across the the surface....you maintain the 3' per second Duster regimen and apply the number of repeated coats(...usually 8 ) required to get the desire final coverage.

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post #715 of 763 Old 11-24-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

S-I-L-V-E-R is indeed the loosest Mix around, and getting the air pressure-to-paint viscosity index correct is essential. As I stated before, I always used a Wagner CS (old model) with the much smaller Needle / Air Ouput than the DD or Plus units, and to duplicate that with a Graco one needs to use at maximum the 1.5 mm needle and 50% air pressure.

Once that has been done...as you seem to have done...the simple observance of the height of the spray pattern and the density of the paint exiting the Gun, you usually would just move slightly further away from the surface to obtain at least a 10" tall pattern. Overlap is still held to 70%. But you DO NOT SLOW DOWN in going across the the surface....you maintain the 3' per second Duster regimen and apply the number of repeated coats(...usually 8 ) required to get the desire final coverage.

Okay, I'm glad to hear that about the setting. I'm using the 1.5 need as suggested as well.
I'll get my colored dye s-I-l-v-e-r mixture at the same viscosity as my non-colored dye mixture stated above and give it a go with my gun to see exactly how much of the paint dial can be open before it starts spitting. I'll post back in couple of days on what settings I found to be okay to use. smile.gifsmile.gif
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post #716 of 763 Old 11-29-2013, 06:07 PM
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I need to be clear of something to make sure I'm adding right amount of water. When I originally asked what formula I would need for the graco 3900 spraystation you gave me this:

1 gallon behr faux glaze
8 silver metelic
16 oz water.

from reading some of the other post, especially ones who are using the Wagner double duty, that has more air flow, I'm beginning to think you meant to say 16 oz water to start out with for the graco 3900 system. Am i right??
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post #717 of 763 Old 11-30-2013, 07:58 AM
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Yes. Now go for it.

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post #718 of 763 Old 12-01-2013, 07:30 PM
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MississippiMan, wither you are using the Wagner control spray, the Wagner DD, Wagner Plus units, or the graco 2900/3900 unit, is the object to still get the mix to flow through sock strainer with ease?? I know that each of these gun require diff amounts of water, some more..some less but it would seem that adding more or less water for each unit would also effect how well that paint mixture, wither it be s-i-l-v-e-r or any other for that matter, would flow through the sock strainer. Wouldn't that in a sense make finding that proper viscosity obsolete unless you are using one of the older model guns, like the Wagner control spray, vs one of the new ones??? I guess the viscosity of the mix has been my issue. When you guys first introduced s-i-l-v-e-r, silver fire, or MM for that matter, the main gun you were using were the older wager model and those required far more dilution. How did the viscosity of the paint mixture change, when it comes to straining through the sock strainer, change as the newer models came out that required less water??
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post #719 of 763 Old 12-02-2013, 04:34 AM
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I thought you had this all figured out. Do you realize you have almost 5 pages of posts, 4 of which are entirely devoted to you? You've been at this since last February.

At this point I don't think it makes much sense for you to continue. It just is not as hard to do as all your issues would indicate. You've been all over the map with the amounts o0f water needed and that you have tried. Your co0ntiual changing up of the amounts of water has been your undoing, because you have no consistent viscosity to work out a spraying method with.

It doesn't work like that. And there just isn't that much difference between all these Guns, certainly not so much that after 11 months one cannot find a happy medium.

With S-I-L-V-E-R, or any thin paint, you start off with the least amount out water and add until you get a proper spray pattern. You misjudged the amount needed early on and added too much, and now it's become a "Gun" issue that's to blame.

If one changes over to a different Gun, then obviously one has to make adjustments. In this case, trying to equalize the needle size and pressure.

I know that if I was to pick up any one of the Guns you have had, and mix a batch of S-I-L-V-E-R, by day's end I'd be finished. And a great many before you have done likewise.

I just almost feel that I have nothing more to add here, because I cannot fathom what seems to be continually plaguing you. It just isn't that hard or difficult to make the needed adjustments....and basically, all the effort to9 do so has been more detrimental than helpful. You know how much I want to help you...I haven't spent all the hours doing so because I( didn't want you to have success.

But every once in a great while there comes a time when someone needs to realize they just don't have the knack. Or....that some kind of evil hex is upon them. Someone such as yourself, who has spent considerable...even insane amounts of time and effort, and no small amount of funds, and still cannot get past 1st base....well that simply screams "STOP !" because all your doing is frustrating yourself, and essentially making it seem that a simple DIY solution comes with intractable issues...which is not the case at all.

Now that I've vented....I'll add this.

You have not carried a single attempt out far enough to even judge what might be the end result. You've been too worried about what the initial coats look like, and not made it past that point. S-I-L-V-E-R always looks like something is amiss early on, and only the continual build-up of paint produces the eventual finish. Make the Mix as originally described, and if you find a discrepancy in the listed amounts of water to add, then go with the "lessor" amount first. Start out with a higher pressure and smaller nozzle and reduce pressure until you get a even flow. Use straining to remove any debris or clumps, forget about "flow-through" rates.

Just make a complete attempt, using some Thrifty White or similar sheet.

You know I wish I could be there to just get'ter dun for you.....I know you have the will, and the desire...and I don't ever discourage those feelings in any DIY'er.

But I think it's time after 11 months and over 100 + posts and PMs that this Thread got back to being something other than a testimonial to your personal efforts...and issues.

Your welcome to continue to PM or call, but lets give all these repeated postings a rest.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #720 of 763 Old 12-07-2013, 04:24 PM
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So; I made up a quart of s-i-l-v-e-r…with the initial 4oz water and divided the mix into 2 containers so I could use one half the mix to experiment with. I remember you telling me on the phone to not add more then 2oz extra water to the mix. With half of the mix in a different container I could use that if I find that adding more water to the other half has a negative outcome in how it sprays out. I added just a tad bit red dye to the experimental mix so I could see how the mix was spraying out.
I first added the equivalent of 1oz which would be 1 tablespoon. I found that with the 1 oz equivelent I found that I had to have the gun dial at no more then 40% open or it would shoot out to many bigger drops. I then decided to add the equivilent of 1 more oz to see if it made things worse or better. It made it worse. Had to put the gun dial at 30%. It looks like if your using the graco spraystation you DONT go over the initial 4 oz of water without getting negative results.since I'm using the 3900 spraystation I wonder if I should have started with 3 oz..lil.I needed to back the gun to 17 inches as well to get a little bigger spray pattern as well.
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