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post #721 of 746 Old 12-07-2013, 03:37 PM
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Well your flying alne by the seat of your pants now because to date no one else has used a Graco for S-I-L-V-E-R.

Nail it down then make a final report as to what works best.

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post #722 of 746 Old 12-08-2013, 05:24 PM
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So, to mention more. The last mix I made, which consisted of 5 oz of water, I noticed that even with the gun at 50% open there was still unwanted bigger drops. Mind you, it was better then the 6 oz of water at 50% open. The 5 oz water at 50% open gave a better, more duster like pattern, then the 6 oz at 50% open. The jump from 5 oz to 6 oz made things worse in having more bigger drops. I'm guessing that the mix, with only the initial 4 oz water, will probably spray at the needed duster but still only with the gun dial only at 50% open. As you mentioned, I want to have the gun dial at least 70% open. So, what I'm going to do, is try the mix out with only 3 oz of water then i'll try 4 oz, with the red dye in it, and see how much water it will take to give me the best duster. I want to have the gun at least 70% but would prefer 80% open. Heck, since i'm using the Graco 3900 spraystation which, has more air flow then the 2900, I may end up finding out that 2 oz of water, eek.gif , is all that it will take instead of the initial 4 oz...
Second, I'll have to use the Martha Stewart polish silver for the next batch and I notice that the consistency of the Martha Stewart, Polish Silver, is thinner then the Liquitex silver. Up to this point I've been using the Liquitex .Does the thinner MS silver mean I need to add more silver to the batch or keep it the same?? How will the thinner MS silver effect how the gun sprays??
I'm glad you guys switched to the MS polished silver. It's cheaper then the Liquitex silver and you get more of it as well. It's also far easier to find a Home Depot then a Micheals. Thanks guys for making the change. smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
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post #723 of 746 Old 12-08-2013, 05:38 PM
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Your welcome, but use the amounts suggested....no guessing.

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post #724 of 746 Old 12-09-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Your welcome, but use the amounts suggested....no guessing.

MississippiMan, unfortunately frown.giffrown.gif , MS polish silver didn't work to well for s-I-l-v-e-r. Since the viscosity of the MS silver was thinner it messed up the viscosity of the completed s-I-l-v-e-r mixture. I started with 3 oz of water, then I tried 4 oz, then 5 oz and even though I had the gun dial at 60% open it spit BAD. The 3 oz of water in the MS version of s-I-l-v-e-r spit like the 6 or 7 oz water in the Liquitex s-I--l-v-e-r mixture. Once I went to 4 oz and 5 oz it got far worse and worse. Maybe you can try your hand at the MS silver, s-I-l-v-e-r mixture, and get the kinks out.
Second, the MS silver didn't blend as well with the Behr Faux glaze as the Liquitex silver did. I had a hard time getting the mix to blend completely and after mixing the MS silver would separate a bit in the paint cup. Also, the MS silver, s-I-l-v-e-r mixture was darker then the Liquitex s-I-l-v-e-r mixture. I would have to recommend sticking with the Liquitex silver for s-I-l-v-e-r....back to Michaels morrow.
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post #725 of 746 Old 12-09-2013, 07:51 PM
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Well Pooh....., frown.gif

At least your going to get back to a point where the Mix is at it's most viscous (thickest) and you can make your adjustments from there.

I'm almost tempted to pack up and send you one of my old Wagner Control Spray Guns(original)...the type I did all my own S-I-L-V-E-Rs with.

They actually started selling them on the Gleem website again. $45.00
http://www.gleempaint.com/wagner-control-spray.html

Just what you wanted to hear...eh? tongue.gif

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post #726 of 746 Old 12-09-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well Pooh....., frown.gif

At least your going to get back to a point where the Mix is at it's most viscous (thickest) and you can make your adjustments from there.

I'm almost tempted to pack up and send you one of my old Wagner Control Spray Guns(original)...the type I did all my own S-I-L-V-E-Rs with.

They actually started selling them on the Gleem website again. $45.00
http://www.gleempaint.com/wagner-control-spray.html

Just what you wanted to hear...eh? tongue.gif

ill go back to the liquitex and give it another go. should be able get itdown on the liquittex version. let you know how it goes.
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post #727 of 746 Old 12-10-2013, 05:59 PM
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Okay, I want to recant on the mix not seeming to blend as well with MS polish silver. The MS silver mix just looked swirly when looking at it in the paint cup but I went to take a closer look at the s-I-l-v-e-r mixture I have that has the Liquitex brand it has that swirly look to, maybe not quite as much but still has it. The reason the MS silver just looked worse to me is because the s-I-l-v-e-r mixture that has the MS silver in it is darker then the Liquitex silver mixture and am able to see the imperfections better. But, it is still important to note that
s-I-l-v-e-r with the MS silver is a darker grey then the s-I-l-v-e-r with the Liquitex silver.
Second, is the silver in the Liquitex jar the same consistency as the ones in the tubes?? I know you prefer the jar over the tubes and was wondering if that was why.
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post #728 of 746 Old 12-11-2013, 06:22 AM
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Glad yo hear you recognized there was no real issue. When I think about it, I remember seeing the same thing, but any close and objective examination showed that the mixture overall was thoroughly blended.

No difference in consistency, just easier to get it out. Also, you can add a bit of the listed water to the Jar, shake vigorously, and reclaim some of the stubborn "hanger on" .

I cannot confirm this, but logic dictates that the darker MS Silver should up the ambient light resistance at least a bit beyond what the older S-I-L-V-E-R formulations afforded. Also, the original Behr Silver metallic was quite a bit darker than the Liqutex, as well as the preceding Gleam varieties.

And what's up with this "s-I-l-v-e-r " stuff. It's "S-I-L-V-E-R", Bub ! biggrin.gif

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post #729 of 746 Old 12-11-2013, 08:52 PM
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Though the added darkness would help with ambient light wouldn't that also cause it to crush the whites a little bit more in the process?? Would be nice if it increased blacks and better ambient light tolerance but still allowed the whites to be as bright as it would with the liquitex silver.
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post #730 of 746 Old 12-11-2013, 11:34 PM
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S-I-L-V-E-R has never had any issue with preserving Whites. The original Formula being the reference standard to judge all others by, and it was a over-achiever itself.

If current thinking holds any meaning, the MS-SM is the best quality and consistency SM we have encountered to date.

Go with whatever you feel most comfotrable with...you are past the point of needing to elicit opinions

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post #731 of 746 Old 12-12-2013, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narhic_fd View Post

Though the added darkness would help with ambient light wouldn't that also cause it to crush the whites a little bit more in the process?? Would be nice if it increased blacks and better ambient light tolerance but still allowed the whites to be as bright as it would with the liquitex silver.

Sorry MississippiMan. I think i worded my question wrong. When it comes to the MS silver brand being used for S-I-L-V-E-R, I was afraid that the darker shade would crush the whites a little more then if one was using the LIquitex silver. You mentioned that using the MS silver would give better ambient light performance since it's a shade darker but I was curious if it being a shade darker would also crush the white a little bit more then the Liquitex silver would. I was thinking it would be cool if the MS silver offered better ambient light control as well as maintaining the white to the same extent as liquitex silver did. You know...basically getting the up shoot on ambient light but not at the expense of loosing those maintained whites. biggrin.gif. biggrin.gif
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post #732 of 746 Old 12-13-2013, 01:13 AM
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I know what you meant...and your using the difference between the Liquitex and MS as your criteria for judgement. What I said was the original S-I-L-V-E-R formula that used Behr Premium Plux Faux Metallic Silver resulted in a similar if not darker shade of Gray....almost identical to the MS Silver. The original dis not crush Whites at all...in fact...as you should be aware by now, a prime aspect of S-I-L-V-E-R is it's extreme enhancement of Colors...something that is inherent in using a Gray, but the ability to retain Whites as well.

S-I-L-V-E-R has never been a application that touts ambient light capability, however any S-I-L-V-E-R formulation that results in a darker shade of Gray than another will do better in ambient light than the lighter Gray example. If the ratio of Silver Metallic is equal in both (Mica Flakes) then the only other variable is going to be within a small degree of added Gain due to the lighter screen being...well, lighter. But ambient light performance will take a hit with the lighter screen (...I already said that, didn't I...)

My switch from using Behr SM to using Delta Ceramcoat was predicated on trying to increase gain while maintaining S-I-L-V-E-R's original properties.(...as well as take advantage of D-C's smaller Mica chips...)

That is why I added the "HG" designation to S-I-L-V-E-R.

You have to accept the known premise that a lighter color screen will not combat ambient light better than a darker screen, if all other properties are equal. Ultra High Gain Retro-Reflective Screens notwithstanding.

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post #733 of 746 Old 01-03-2014, 10:00 AM
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MississippiMan, How much water should i start out with if using the Graco 1900 spraystation unit per quart of S-I-L-V-E-R mix???
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post #734 of 746 Old 08-09-2014, 10:54 PM
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Is there a visual difference in performance with various substrates be it Kilz 2, Thrifty board? It gets confusing. Does a brighter surface if done correctly, give better results than a flatter primer like Kilz?

Does the latest formula use Liquitex instead of Delta? I was unsure if that was just an MM experiment or the official current recommendation.

Last edited by Debonaire; 08-09-2014 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Sorry but reading Narhic' s post got me perplexed
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post #735 of 746 Old 08-09-2014, 11:14 PM
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Narhic,

I feel compelled.

Wow. Damn. Dude! You should've just bought a Stewart for that amount of time, posts and funds.
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post #736 of 746 Old 08-10-2014, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
Is there a visual difference in performance with various substrates be it Kilz 2, Thrifty board? It gets confusing. Does a brighter surface if done correctly, give better results than a flatter primer like Kilz?
With S-I-L-V-E-R it begins with a bright white surface, but one that is both flat in sheen as well as suitable to receive a very wet, thin paint mix. S-I-L-V-E-R is already a translucent higher gain application, so having a too bright base simply means that one might have too much returned light, and therefore a pronounced hot spot. S-I-L-V-E-Ris not a mix you can just keep laying on to offset a glossy white base....to much S-I-L-V-E-R applied results in too much gain.

Quote:
Does the latest formula use Liquitex instead of Delta? I was unsure if that was just an MM experiment or the official current recommendation.
Although it might seem so to those who do not follow every post and / or correlate all the information, I do not post a recommendation as a "experiment"...I always and only post up such if it is proven. No need to post up failures (...they are so few anyway... )

The various Silver Metallics have changed on the main premises of quality, availability, and the degree of finer Granularity. Slight adjustments are made to accommodate shades. Nothing gets sent down the Pike for Member referral without extensive and actual real world testing with projected imagery.

To come will be S-I-L-V-E-R using Rustoleum Accents, which should result in a darker S-I-L-V-E-R with no loss of gain, which in turn should result in a more ambient light resistant application....something that was not among S-I-L-V-E-R's claim to fame.

Now sometimes, an intrepid (...and impatient...) soul such as narhic_fd is willing to experiment in all sorts of manner and ways, using both proven methods and materials in a new way, as well as using supposition. Absolutely he's high maintenance....but such dogged enthusiasm combined with determination is what experimental DIy Screen design is all about put in proper perspective as far as the potential for success or failure, and thereby for the most part it is not and should not be discouraged. While he might not really have to be intending to design something new, his determination to try to optimize whatever he is attempting is surely in the spirit of things.

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Narhic,

I feel compelled.

Wow. Damn. Dude! You should've just bought a Stewart for that amount of time, posts and funds.
How so? Nothing Stewart has to offer goes down the same roads as our DIY applications.....even their few specialty Screen apps. And of course besides the phenomenal extra expense, it would not carry the satisfaction of DIY.

For the record, he's going over the Silver Fire v2.5 now.....which is probably where he was best suited to be all along.

Not that I didn't try to tell him that a couple years back.

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post #737 of 746 Old 08-10-2014, 04:06 AM
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Isn't an SF fairly similar to a Firehawk SST?
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post #738 of 746 Old 08-10-2014, 06:08 AM
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Isn't an SF fairly similar to a Firehawk SST?
More akin to a DNP SuperNova in premise and performance. And a SF screen app can be infinitely adjusted to room / viewing conditions and a PJ's performance envelope. No other Screen anywhere, DIY or Mfg can lay claim to that.

In a direct one-on-one comparison that was judged by literally several thousand viewers, Silver Fire Light Fusion literally roasted "The Bird" back in 2007, and since then has gotten even better, and a mirror is no longer required.

But this Thread is about S-I-L-V-E-R, isn't it? CMRA must be spinning in his basement about now.

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post #739 of 746 Old 08-10-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
Narhic,

I feel compelled.

Wow. Damn. Dude! You should've just bought a Stewart for that amount of time, posts and funds.
S-I-L-V-E-R was frustrating for me and as well as mississippiMan, lol due to all the questions I asked. Just read where 3 whole pages of this forum is me asking and he answering. In the end of it all, after getting so frustrated in not being able to figure out what i was doing wrong, I probably bought 2 or 3 jars of liquitex silver and 3 tubes of liquitex silver and probably a few quarts and couple gallons of Behr Faux glaze. I also bought few bottles of this stuff that was basically colored water So I could see how the material was spraying out of the gun and collecting on the TWH. I couldn't figure out why after 6-8 coats It hardly looked like anything was on there. Well...I figured why it didn't look like there was anything sprayed on after buying some of the martha stewart silver substitute. The liquitex silver is to light of a silver color. Would barely look like I had anything sprayed on even after 8 coats. The liquitex version S-I-L-V-E-R made my image look like i was trying to project through a dirty screen.Now, in the defense of MM and CMR, no one had tried S-I-L-V-E-R using the liquitex silver and I was the first. Being that they hadn't tried the liquitex, they would not have known of the issue. Wish i would have bought the Martha Stewart first, lol. Once done with my current project, i do want to give S-I-L-V-E-R another go just to see how it would have looked. IF you are wanting to do S-I-L-V-E-R though, use the Martha Stewart silver and steer clear of the liquitex silver. Also, you need to know that since the Martha Stewart paint is thinner then the liquitex it will change the viscosity in how much water you need to add. That's another reason i'll want to revisit S-I-L-V-E-R so i can get good info on the viscosity.

Last edited by narhic_fd; 08-10-2014 at 04:35 PM.
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post #740 of 746 Old 08-11-2014, 02:30 AM
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NM

Last edited by Debonaire; 08-12-2014 at 12:55 AM.
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post #741 of 746 Old 08-12-2014, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The various Silver Metallics have changed on the main premises of quality, availability, and the degree of finer Granularity. Slight adjustments are made to accommodate shades. Nothing gets sent down the Pike for Member referral without extensive and actual real world testing with projected imagery.
I've been researching these paints. The ones you're using are student grade. Why?

In another thread you made reference to making a screen using Iridescent Silver which is a Heavy Body (professional/artists grade) mixed with the Basics (student grade). You made mention noticing the much better optical properties. Which isn't surprising.

Student grades have fillers which are going to reduce the optical properties. The pigments aren't ground as fine with a lower pigment load too.

My guess is if you switched out Liquitex Basics Silver for the Heavy Body Iridescent Silver, you could increase performance about 10-20%.

Last edited by Debonaire; 08-12-2014 at 01:16 AM.
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post #742 of 746 Old 08-12-2014, 05:27 AM
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Heavy bodied paints are much harder to mix together in the manner needed, and the quality of the medium bodied paints is more than sufficient.

Also, pigment density can work against many of the aspects that are critical in creating a semi-translucent medium. That goes doubly when reflective elements are involved.

Many times people question the whys and wherefores, based on knowledge they have coming from elsewhere that isn't related to what is actually being done...and why.

That's cool. But taken in context with the need to use paints that the layman can acquire, work with, and achieve the desired results, they don't really apply, or help much.

The only way that can be different is to not question, but "do" and give a meaningful and fact-filled report on results. Some fairly decent changes have been made in that manner. That's what Forum Community involvement is based on.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Heavy bodied paints are much harder to mix together in the manner needed, and the quality of the medium bodied paints is more than sufficient.

Also, pigment density can work against many of the aspects that are critical in creating a semi-translucent medium. That goes doubly when reflective elements are involved.

Many times people question the whys and wherefores, based on knowledge they have coming from elsewhere that isn't related to what is actually being done...and why.

That's cool. But taken in context with the need to use paints that the layman can acquire, work with, and achieve the desired results, they don't really apply, or help much.

The only way that can be different is to not question, but "do" and give a meaningful and fact-filled report on results. Some fairly decent changes have been made in that manner. That's what Forum Community involvement is based on.
I used faux glaze and air brush silver for my mix with a Graco 1900 and a 1.0 tip and could not be happier made my screen almost a year ago.
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post #744 of 746 Old 08-12-2014, 06:09 PM
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I used faux glaze and air brush silver for my mix with a Graco 1900 and a 1.0 tip and could not be happier made my screen almost a year ago.
greg...i to have the graco 1900 unit and am curious as to how much water you had to add for the s-i-l-v-e-r to spray out properly. I havent tried to spray any of the paint mixes on here with the 1900 unit and could use some info on water amounts.Have you sprayed silver fire with it??? If so how much water did you end up using for silver fire??
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post #745 of 746 Old 08-12-2014, 10:40 PM
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MM,

I was looking around for the Rust Oleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver. The only place which has it is Lowe's, except online. It only comes in a 32 oz jar for $25. There's s a 2 oz size according to Rust Oleum's site for $3.99 MSRP, but no one carries it.

Kmart has 8 oz bottle of Delta Ceramacoat for $6.30.
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post #746 of 746 Old 08-13-2014, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
MM,

I was looking around for the Rust Oleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver. The only place which has it is Lowe's, except online. It only comes in a 32 oz jar for $25. There's s a 2 oz size according to Rust Oleum's site for $3.99 MSRP, but no one carries it.

Kmart has 8 oz bottle of Delta Ceramacoat for $6.30.
The Delta has been / was a staple component for some time. There were a few issues with QC. Some Bottles (2 oz.) came pretty "clumpy". The Rust Oleum is something I have yet to use for S-I-L-V-E-R....I don't do many such screens anymore....but used in the smaller amounts, 4-6 oz per mix.... it should be a very good choice.

Just expensive.

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