Wrapping Black Velvet on Trim...... with Mitered or Butt joined ends. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 136 Old 03-31-2008, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post

I tried wrapping my mitered boards in velvet last night. Boy, they sure didn't come out like ones in your pictures. I just did not have the technique down. Oh well.

It can take a bit of practice. One of the reasons I always use staples and not adhesive is that staples can be pulled out. I also do not trim the excess until I know I have a good wrap going.

Mitered joints are the absolute best looking...but as in many things, the best ain't always the easiest. But joints wrap easier, but you have to have the lengths matched up exactly or you might have a hanging edge at one end.

Is you project a "Done Deal" or can it be adjusted?

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Is there a real big weight difference between the 3/8" MDF and 1x3poplar?

Quite a bit. But another thing many do not consider is how there can be a shadow cast across the edge of the screen by a Trim Piece that is too tall. This usually comes from there being some light coming from the side though. But depending upon how / where your PJ is mounted, the same thing can happen in the dark, leading you to think that your image isn't squared or sized correctly within the frame.

To me, using anything that is taller than what is absolutely necessary to allow for the wrapping procedure is redundant. I love that MDF base. Nothing works easier, accepts staples better, and the lower profile always fots together easier.

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post #32 of 136 Old 03-31-2008, 08:51 AM
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Huh - I had not considered the shadow thing. I hope that won't be an issue.

I went to the store looking for the MDF, but the only stuff that had was milled into various molding shapes and would have to be ripped. I don't have the tools for that.
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post #33 of 136 Old 03-31-2008, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post


I went to the store looking for the MDF, but the only stuff that had was milled into various molding shapes and would have to be ripped. I don't have the tools for that.

The 3 -1/4" Base with a simple curve on one side works great "as is". Putting the "Curve" on the inside of the Miter cut makes the edge go down to almost nothing against the Screen, and the mitered corners blend wonderfully. Wrapping is no issue either.

Myself, I can see how wrapping a "tall" mitered edge would be more difficult, but recently most have "MDF'd" it so that possibility got over looked.

Did you glue or staple?

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post #34 of 136 Old 03-31-2008, 10:22 AM
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I used an electric staple gun.
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post #35 of 136 Old 03-31-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Well then...your Golden.

Use a very small Screw Driver to lift up / pull out the staples.

Tedious work...but you won't have to re-do the tearing / cutting of the velvet.

Try that 3 -1/4" base. It's sooooo cool. And that inwardly receding curve that goes down into the screen's surface adds a real classy touch. And Trim Shadows? Fergittabowdum.

I used to rip that curve off using a Rip Fence on my itty bitty Ryobi 5-1/2" Cordless Saw, but ONLY if I needed trim less than 3-1/4" wide. With bigger screens over 96" x 54", that just isn't an issue. In fact, given the choice, many would like the wider Trim better...I'm a thinnen'

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post #36 of 136 Old 04-01-2008, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, if I had understood what I was looking for I would have gone with the MDF.

At this point I've put in enoug time and energy that I think I am going to hang the poplar and see how it is. If it is no good, I will declare failure and start over from the beginning with the right stuff.

Thanks for the reply as always.
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post #37 of 136 Old 04-01-2008, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Your welcome. Try to be absolutely dead-on as far as your PJ's positioning. Get it level, and plumb (straight...not angled at all...) to the Screen wall, and keep the projected angle towards the screen as small as possible so you'll have as little chance of having the light beam hit the forward "Top/Bottom/Side edges of the trim. Get it right, and you will be able to "crawl" your image's outside boundaries up the inside edges of your trim for a perfectly framed picture. With no shadows. But you will get a shadow anytime there is light coming from the sides...no matter what.

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post #38 of 136 Old 04-01-2008, 05:43 PM
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Can't tell you how helpful this thread has been. MM...you are a real champ. Seriously. Thanks for passing on your experience...

I am using my wall as a screen (used the popular Home Depot Silver Star paint) that many here like. Might have been MM who discovered it.

So using my wall as a screen it's a fairly easy project. I bought some very light but durable pine crown molding that is 3.25 inches wide. Perfect. Got black velveteen material. I've used it before and it was terrific. I think my brother in law has the tools needed for finishing nails.

Thanks again!

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post #39 of 136 Old 04-05-2008, 11:32 AM
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Poplar or Pine

The local HD did not have any poplar 1x4. They had nice looking pine 1x4. Is that ok? I am going to use this to build a frame and I also bought 3 yards of Black out cloth from Joanne's yesterday. This is the one that is 54" high. So, I can only build 54x96. How much will I lose when I wrap the cloth around. I hope I don't lose more than 4 inches on each side. I would like to keep my screen height at least 50".

Also, I am confused regarding the velvet wrapping of the wood. Will the black velvet be visible or the white cloth wrap around it. My wife was interested in painting the wall because she wants it as big as possible. We are projecting a 110" image on the wall right now. I told her once I make the frame it is going to be smaller and she was not happy. She is a big is better person. She just wants to paint the whole wall. I wasn't going to do that because I don't know if I am going to keep that wall for our Home theater or move it to the opposite side.
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post #40 of 136 Old 04-05-2008, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Pine "will" warp, especially when any degree of strain is placed on it, such as what happens when you stretch and staple BO cloth. Select Kiln Dried Pine will be better, but the Clear Poplar is the next best thing to Oak.

Your mixed up. The frame you stretch the BO Cloth on will not be what you Wrap your Velvet on.

I'd listen to your Wife. Paint the wall. It can always be painted over if you have to. And trimming that with a Velvet surround is a breeze. The same Trim can always be "Moved" Best of all, size becomes no object. (...and for you, the "man"...it'll be cheaper as well.) I can't see painting the Wall being any less an option, and really to my (...and your Wife's ) way of thinking, it just the easiest and best way for you AND her to get what you both want. Always listen to the Wife if she's on your side as far as having a Home Theater where "Bigger" is better.

She sure sounds like my kinda Girl.

But really, a Theater needs to be set up correctly from the Get Go. Rare indeed is the room where you can just up and swap the Front Sound/Screen around, or just up and relocate the PJ on a whim If you get serious about the design, it becomes easier and less expensive to go forth because you won't go down any dead ends or make do with Ho Hum performance.

I'd paint the wall no matter where you decide to place your screen because quite frankly, it will be more likely to provide the best possible results for a Noob. Easier, less expensive.....always changable.

So how big would your Wife like one to be?


A SCREEN...you Cretins!

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post #41 of 136 Old 04-05-2008, 04:37 PM
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So - I wrapped my 1x3 poplar and it came out OK. It isn't perfect, especially around the mitered corners. But, for a first go, it could be worse. Anyhow, I am satisfied with the look and the enhancement it provides when watching. Thanks to all for your help - especially MM.

The photos are quite poor, so they don't entirely do it justice.

BTW - No issues with shadows from the frame.
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post #42 of 136 Old 04-06-2008, 08:28 AM
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Mississippi Man!! Before I read your post, I already went to HD and bought four 8' 1x4 pines. I cannot return two of them because they already cut them. I also bought 3 yards (instead of 4!!) of BOC from Joanne's for $5.99/yard (so I spent about $19 including tax). I only spent $3.06 per pine so it came to $12.24+tax.

I had to buy stapling gun, and some screws, mounting bracket, etc.

I had the wild idea of building a 2.40:1 frame so that when we watch movies we can zoom in to fill the entire screen and while watching other 16:9 material, we can zoom out to fill screen vertically and have some black bars on the sides which I could use a removable mask for later on. Any critique on this idea.

Because I only got 3 yards of blackout cloth, I limited myself to about 103" width - so I am limited to about 43 inches in height for the 2.40:1 frame. However, for 16:9 material, I am limited to 76.4" horizontally (width) - yikes!!

With the painted screen, I would have been limited to 96x54 for even 2.40:1 material - which means it will be 40 inches height (that is only 3 inches difference though!). The reason I am limited to 96" is because there is an obstruction on the wall (the circuit breakers).

As you said I think I should have just done the painting. I haven't actually spent time doing the frame yet. I cannot return the BOC or some of the wood. I don't know what to do now!!

If I want paint, I will have to fix the wall (there are some drywall damage from old screws, etc), then paint. Decision, decisions! Since I already have the BOC I think I am going to try the frame and see how it turns out. Live and learn right

Also, with the BOC from Joannes - the inside is rubbery and the outside is cloth like. Which side should the image be projected on?
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post #43 of 136 Old 04-09-2008, 10:51 PM
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Since I posted last time, I ended up making a 2.4:1 screen using BOC. The final dimensions are 103" x 43". I only got 3 yards of fabric - So, I used it up.

Here are my first pictures. I am brand new to this projector universe. Coming from a 61" RPTV.

This rocks. I don't have an anamorphic lens or anything but I just zoom on the Panny AX200 to fill the screen.

Check out these pictures

I still have a lot of work to do. I have not mounted the projector. It is sitting on two side tables stacked on top of each other. I don't have any velvet on the screen wall for masking.
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post #44 of 136 Old 04-10-2008, 06:12 AM
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How are you not getting any overspill on 2.4:1?
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post #45 of 136 Old 04-10-2008, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post

How are you not getting any overspill on 2.4:1?

I am not sure I understand the question, but I will take a guess.

For 2.4 or 2.35:1 content, I zoom in with my projector and use lens shift to center the image so that the content fills my screen. The black bars you normally see in a 16:9 screen is now above and below my screen. On my light grey wall I can see some grey bars. For example, the pause icon is on the grey wall. Once I put black velvet on the screen wall, I assume I won't see any of that. For 16:9 content, I have to zoom out quite a bit and re-center the image. Now, I have only 76x43 (88" diagonal) picture and the left and right side of the screen are unused. May be I can mask that out temporarily!

I spent about $35 on the whole project and if I am not happy in a few months, I will try something different!
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post #46 of 136 Old 10-30-2008, 06:20 AM
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Bump this discussion.

What length staples are used for this project when using a plain, curved 3" x 7/16ths" base moulding? I have some 3/8ths inch staples, but they seem a little too long, especially on the thinner, curved side of the moulding.

Also, I saw a question regarding a source for where to purchase the velvet. I used Sy-Fabrics:

http://www.syfabrics.com/View.aspx/P...Velvet/681/264 .

Seems like MMan posted this link elsewhere on the forum and was used with good results by other members. I'm still waiting on mine to arrive. If this posting breaks the rules, please delete.

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post #47 of 136 Old 10-30-2008, 06:34 AM
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I used 1/2" Heavy Duty wide staples with stock base moulding. I stayed on the thickest part of the moulding when stapling.

I would say that going with something smaller might work out better. In my case, I just had them laying around so in the true DIY spirit I used them...luckily you can't see my staple job unless your nose is up against the wall

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post #48 of 136 Old 10-30-2008, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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1/4" Staples are best, assuring that the "Bar" of the staple sinks as firmly and as deep into the Velvet as possible, and thereby minimizing the amount of Tapping needed on Staple heads that still protrude above surface of the Velvet.

Generally speaking, I still take a hammer and tap a little bit on everything, with special attention to any point where I have two layers of velvet overlapping each other.

Posting the SyFabric Link is Ok. After all, they use Velvet for making Clothing, Drapes and Curtains. Now if they advertised it as being especially made for Wrapping Trim for Projector Screens, that would be different, and much the same as if someone posted a link for where to pick up the bulk Screen material that a DaLite or Stewart Screen uses.

Why, that almost happened with the 4'x8' + 5' x 10' Sheets of Parkland Polywall because after the info got out on AVS about the stuff, the rush for it caused the Mfg. to jack up the price and actually advertise it in the Parkland Plastics Site as being a "Front Projection Screen". (...the "Jack up" in price caused a backlash of unpopularity and as a result, Parkland dropped the panel altogether.) It still rankles the nerves that they did that......

It's a fine line at times that separates some products from being "Over the Line", but one that is easy to balance on if one simply remembers that the rules "effectively" state;

This DIY Forum is intended to provide help and advice toward the making of DIY Projection Screens using materials not originally designed and/or intended for use as components for such "Screens".

As for everything else, it's fortunate that it was determined awhile back that to exclude the posting of Links to available and applicable materials on a DIY Forum would be tantamount to shutting down the effectiveness of such a Forum to help others find such things and progress accordingly. The temptation always exists to fudge a bit, and anybody who wants to fudge for his Screen building convenience should be able to do so. By simply remembering that a "Screens Forum" exists and that such actual "Specially intended for Screens" products are highlighted on that Forum, there is and always will remain an outlet/source for such things for the "less than adroit" DIY'er who wants to make one or more aspects of his "DIY" project be a little easier and provide more assurance of success than he might be able to provide himself.

In such cases, saving money is not as important as getting the results one hopes for.

True DIY is all about getting the absolute MOST "Bang for the LEAST Buck", and then pointing at your work and saying "See how great it is....and it didn't cost much at all!"

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post #49 of 136 Old 11-26-2008, 08:06 AM
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Bumping for another member.

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post #50 of 136 Old 11-26-2008, 09:15 AM
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Sorry if I missed it, but does anybody have a part # or link to the base? I frequent Lowe's and have not seen any. I was planning to use 1x4 pine, but am now concerned about warping...
Thanks

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post #51 of 136 Old 11-27-2008, 08:56 AM
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Kevin - I just used some left over base moulding. I think anything will work. My suggestion would be to get some that has a very low profile along one edge.

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post #52 of 136 Old 12-04-2008, 12:22 PM
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I am about to build my first DIY screen and was at Lowe's today looking at 1x4 poplar and some 1/2" MDF base moulding. My plan is to wrap the 4 pieces in velvet, then put together into a frame shape, probably using L brackets. Then attach some sheerweave to the back of the MDF. Mississippi Man, you looked like you used the MDF as a masking over an existing screen frame. Have you, or anyone else, used the MDF for the actual screen frame (attached the screen material to the back of the velveted MDF)? It just seems like the 1/2" MDF base that I saw at Lowes was a bit flimsy. Also using the sheerweave, I would be afraid of putting a "brace" piece across the middle anywhere. I'd be afraid of seeing it through the screen on bright scenes.

I was thinking of then attaching another piece of wood to the back of the top and bottom frame pieces using a french cleat to attach to the wall.

Any thoughts? BTW, I was planning on making a 45"x106" cinescope screen
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post #53 of 136 Old 12-04-2008, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwansumadis View Post

I am about to build my first DIY screen and was at Lowe's today looking at 1x4 poplar and some 1/2" MDF base moulding. My plan is to wrap the 4 pieces in velvet, then put together into a frame shape, probably using L brackets. Then attach some sheerweave to the back of the MDF. Mississippi Man, you looked like you used the MDF as a masking over an existing screen frame. Have you, or anyone else, used the MDF for the actual screen frame (attached the screen material to the back of the velveted MDF)? It just seems like the 1/2" MDF base that I saw at Lowes was a bit flimsy. Also using the sheerweave, I would be afraid of putting a "brace" piece across the middle anywhere. I'd be afraid of seeing it through the screen on bright scenes.

I was thinking of then attaching another piece of wood to the back of the top and bottom frame pieces using a french cleat to attach to the wall.

Any thoughts? BTW, I was planning on making a 45"x106" cinescope screen

MDF "Trim" is exactly that....Trim. It does not have sufficient rigidity to serve as a "Frame" fro a Cloth screen that will have to be "stretched" a bit in the least.

Building a perimeter frame of 1x4's and then placing a Board across the span is a good idea, and if you paint that board "Black" using a good, Flat Black/Charcoal Grey paint, any over/under lap areas behind the screen should remain invisible. Use the Velvet Wrapped MDF as a overlaid Trim on top of the 1x4s

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post #54 of 136 Old 12-05-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybarman View Post

So - I wrapped my 1x3 poplar and it came out OK. It isn't perfect, especially around the mitered corners. But, for a first go, it could be worse. Anyhow, I am satisfied with the look and the enhancement it provides when watching. Thanks to all for your help - especially MM.

The photos are quite poor, so they don't entirely do it justice.

BTW - No issues with shadows from the frame.

slybarman;
Looks nice, I smiled at seeing the pict with all the kids toys in it, reminded me of my basement also.

This is a good and timely thread for me as well, I just finished my 2.35:1 DIY screen last night and am at the border stage.
DIY Curved Screen with structural extruded aluminum metal framing
(I posted that build in the DIY Constant Height forum, but see many more 2.35/scope builds in this DIY screen forum, so I wonder if my build thread should be moved here? I'll PM a adm person)

Frankly if MM had not posted about the "shadow" effect of square border and the PJ light I might have missed that, good to know that.
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post #55 of 136 Old 12-12-2008, 11:36 AM
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Hi M-Man,

How big is your screen? Did u have problems finding a suitable material for the frame?

I've looked at most plain trim/mouldings, and the only ones suitable that I could find were 8' long. My screen is almost 9' wide.

P
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post #56 of 136 Old 12-12-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petee_c View Post

Hi M-Man,

How big is your screen? Did u have problems finding a suitable material for the frame?

I've looked at most plain trim/mouldings, and the only ones suitable that I could find were 8' long. My screen is almost 9' wide.

P

I just recently got 1x3 10' poplar for $10 each from Lowe's. However, do check out this place for museum quality canvas stretcher. I think this is a great alternative to just wood.

http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_p...brandname=Best

Aluminum for rigidity and light weight and wood for stapling BOC!
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post #57 of 136 Old 12-12-2008, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petee_c View Post

Hi M-Man,

How big is your screen? Did u have problems finding a suitable material for the frame?

I've looked at most plain trim/mouldings, and the only ones suitable that I could find were 8' long. My screen is almost 9' wide.

P

At Home Depot, Primed White MDF "Base" 3.25" wide x 5/16" thick Trim comes in 16' lengths, which you can take down and cut to size "In Store' and pay by the foot. (approx $0.80 ) That's easily less than 1/2 the cost per linear foot than Kiln-Dried Poplar. And you won't find Poplar in 16' lengths

Unless your "Trim" is really a "Frame" to secure whatever substrate your using to a Wall, the use of 3/4" Poplar is IMLE excessively expensive, heavy, and less than cooperative when fabricating. Add to that the 3/4" height raising the possibility of casting a shadow along the Top or sides of the edge of the image (...dependent upon the PJ's beam's angle of incident...) and Poplar should be used for Trim/Frames where structural rigidity is of paramount importance, or where the screen itself is large enought to compensate for the undue height.

I blame the Screen Industry, and their need to use 2" x 2" Aluminum Channels for most all "Snap on Fixed Screen" designs for making such a thing a "Standard". Me? I always buck the System.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #58 of 136 Old 12-12-2008, 09:29 PM
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My border is all done as of 12:30 sat morning (I'm red eyed tired) and tomorrow I'm attaching it to the screen.
Thx to MississippiMan, this post gave me technique and confidence.

However, I totally suck at getting that second "pinch" for the outside corner, I sorta got it by the 6th and 7th ones, still not satisfied with my technique.

Looks very well from the outside, won't win style points when viewed from the backside. Nobody but me and those who read this post will ever know
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post #59 of 136 Old 01-23-2009, 04:13 PM
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Self serving bump!
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post #60 of 136 Old 02-10-2009, 02:58 PM
 
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...just thought i'd put my two cents worth on masking with black velvet.

the easy way to cut black velvet is with a straight edge (USE NEW BLADE).

1. flip the velvet side over
2. run/place a 1"x8" pine board underneath the velvet.
3. use the straight edge of the board you'll be wrapping... as a guide to straight clean cut.

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