EasyFlex Family of DIY Painted Screen Solutions - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 235 Old 12-21-2007, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
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post #182 of 235 Old 12-22-2007, 04:46 AM
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I recently bought Mit HC1500 a very nice/bright projector.
I have only 50 hrs on it so far.
Since the free screen has not arrived yet I decided to try out DIY screen.
Projecting from 13 feet, 90 degree to flat smooth wall.
Image size is approx 100"
It's already white wall.
Room is light controlled but during day time there is some ambient light.
I used the following and painted gray screen.

Quart Custom Tint
Behr ULTRA UPW #4850
0 5 0 Lamp Black
0 2 0 Yellow Oxide

Screen looks dark however when I project image it is very nice. Whites are bright and blacks look dark black...

Do I need to apply any other coat or this should work fine?
I have not even properly calibrated the pj yet.
With the Blu-Ray picture it's very sharp and rich in color...

I will post screen shots later.

Thanks,
Robert
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post #183 of 235 Old 12-22-2007, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Robert,

With your bright projector and satisfying results I would leave well enough alone. My screen is Behr ULTRA UPW #4850 without any top coat and I am very happy with it.
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post #184 of 235 Old 12-22-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

The pearlizing clear coat will effectively lighten the shade of gray. It sounds to me like you have plenty of brightness from your projector already.

Now that the whole screen is gray, do you still think the whites are muted?

Which base did you use, #1050, #1850, #4850?

Which tint formula did you use?

Per a couple of posts above this one - I used the #4850 with:

Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0

Believe its the N8 tint mix ?

Yes - whites are not the same as when I had the white wall. Blacks are far better. Just wondering if the pearlizing coat will help in bringing out the whites further or not. If not - then no reason for me to do the topcoat. Brightness is great - even in Eco-mode and the Blu-ray content looks fantastic !
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post #185 of 235 Old 12-22-2007, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsingh31 View Post

Per a couple of posts above this one - I used the #4850 with:

Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0

Believe its the N8 tint mix ?

Yes - whites are not the same as when I had the white wall. Blacks are far better. Just wondering if the pearlizing coat will help in bringing out the whites further or not. If not - then no reason for me to do the topcoat. Brightness is great - even in Eco-mode and the Blu-ray content looks fantastic !

I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
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post #186 of 235 Old 12-22-2007, 06:16 PM
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Jsingh31 screen shots please. I don't know I have a panny200 and I don't see feel the projector is all that bright. I just bought some poster boards and want to try out some of Tiddlers suggestion. I also picked up the behr 4850, wondering if I should go back and get it tinted. I'm also looking for this winter mist that a couple true value stores don't have a clue. I may go get the glidden snowfield. Whats the difference between these two tints as far a shades go.

Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0


Quart Custom Tint
Behr ULTRA UPW #4850
0 5 0 Lamp Black
0 2 0 Yellow Oxide
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post #187 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s View Post

Jsingh31 screen shots please. I don't know I have a panny200 and I don't see feel the projector is all that bright. I just bought some poster boards and want to try out some of Tiddlers suggestion. I also picked up the behr 4850, wondering if I should go back and get it tinted. I'm also looking for this winter mist that a couple true value stores don't have a clue. I may go get the glidden snowfield. Whats the difference between these two tints as far a shades go.

Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0


Quart Custom Tint
Behr ULTRA UPW #4850
0 5 0 Lamp Black
0 2 0 Yellow Oxide

The first tint is darker and based on a neutral gray tint that was provided by Xrite. The second tint is lighter and not as neutral as it should be. It does however seem to have worked acceptably for many people. The ideal gray is neutral though.

If you have a Lowes near you, they can mix up any color from any brand.
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post #188 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 06:32 AM
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I decided I am going to remake my screen (due to the texture being too rough)

This time I plan to use artists canvas with the easyflex paint tiddler recomends. I will probably spray it on with a HVLP gun...

what materials have you guys used similar to artists canvas ?
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post #189 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 06:35 AM
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Tiddler got plenty of Lowes around. Will they match exactly to winter mist?
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post #190 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s View Post

Tiddler got plenty of Lowes around. Will they match exactly to winter mist?

That is what I understand. You just tell them the brand and color tint and they aresupposed to be able to match it exactly in their brand of paint.
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post #191 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illnastyimpreza View Post

I decided I am going to remake my screen (due to the texture being too rough)

This time I plan to use artists canvas with the easyflex paint tiddler recomends. I will probably spray it on with a HVLP gun...

what materials have you guys used similar to artists canvas ?

This would be a good question to post in Bud's Self-tensioning frame for a DIY canvas screen thread.
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post #192 of 235 Old 12-23-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Hi Robert,

With your bright projector and satisfying results I would leave well enough alone. My screen is Behr ULTRA UPW #4850 without any top coat and I am very happy with it.

Thanks tiddler for posting original instructions.
Yes I like the results so I am going to leave it alone.

Robert
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post #193 of 235 Old 12-24-2007, 04:17 AM
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Tiddler you are correct. Went to Lowes told them the make and tint, and it came up on their computer. Got a qt of valspar signature matte finish.
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post #194 of 235 Old 12-24-2007, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s View Post

Tiddler you are correct. Went to Lowes told them the make and tint, and it came up on their computer. Got a qt of valspar signature matte finish.

Carl,

Can you verify this? Neither of the Lowes close to me could match it. But my confidence level in the folks who I talked to was low. They said something about a Walmart Winter Mist but not True Value.

mech
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post #195 of 235 Old 12-24-2007, 07:07 PM
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I just bought Valspar Signature Series Matte Winter Mist today at Lowe's. The color came up as "Tru Color" Winter Mist 1983. The CSR said he thought Tru Color is the same as True Value.
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post #196 of 235 Old 12-24-2007, 08:01 PM
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mech, fletcha is correct. the rep punched in the computer a search for winter mist and 2 winter mist tints came up. One from trucolors winter mist 1983 and the other I believe was a sherman or walmart as you said. I'm not 100% on the second brand, I don't remember. However two tints definitely came up. I saw it on the computer myself, as he asked him which one i wanted.
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post #197 of 235 Old 12-27-2007, 06:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s View Post

mech, fletcha is correct. the rep punched in the computer a search for winter mist and 2 winter mist tints came up. One from trucolors winter mist 1983 and the other I believe was a sherman or walmart as you said. I'm not 100% on the second brand, I don't remember. However two tints definitely came up. I saw it on the computer myself, as he asked him which one i wanted.

Thank you both!! I ran out of Winter Mist and it's a pain to get to my local True Value. I need a good substitute. Did either of you happen to catch what the DeltaE error was on it? If it was under 1 they wouldn't have said anything and you'd have to be looking at the screen to catch it. I tried to match something else and it was above 1 (I believe 1.46) and they said it would be close. But not close enough for my purposes.

mech
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post #198 of 235 Old 12-28-2007, 06:17 PM
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mech, I did ask for how close will the match be. He did say it should identical but no error margin was ever discussed. I would imagine there is error even with the original in some form of another.
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post #199 of 235 Old 12-28-2007, 06:23 PM
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I used a lot of cutting and pasting form various posts, mostly Tidler's to help ask my questions - thanks Tidler

I suspect a lot of new Mit 4900 owners, like me, will be looking to build one of these screens. Based on Projector Central's projector calculator I need 1.3 gain to put my projector in the middle of their recommended green range Also, I calculated the FL and I believe this will give me about 15-16 FL (foot lamberts) which I understand is the brightness we are after for a good picture. I have a bat cave with dark walls for watching movies (80% of our viewing), but we do watch 20% sports with a little ambient light. Big 120" screen requires the extra gain, I may have to bring down the screen size to up the brightness, I hope not....!

I understand this is a recommended natural gray tint guide for a quart of Behr ULTRA UPW #4850:
Quart Custom Tint
Behr ULTRA UPW #4850
0 10 0 Lamp Black
0 5 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Take this to Home Depot
they will mix it for you.

This base (above) gray alone is very dark and not meant to work on it's own, it need the Pearlizing Clear Coat or 2xPearl Clear Coat if you can't get the Folkart Pearlizing Medium. (Tidler)

Or should I use (lighter ?):
Behr Ultra UPW #4850 (~N8)
Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0

So in the end this beginner's solution is made up of four basic layers. The first is a smooth flat substrate such as a properly prepared wall or a suitably sized piece of MDF. The next layer is comprised of a couple of coats of your favorite primer. Then a couple of coats of either a flat white latex or custom tinted balanced gray latex paint. The final layer is two coats of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780.

That's it folks, the Easy-Flex DIY Painted Screen Solution in a nutshell ( thks Tidler).

Well how does this compare to "SILVER FIRE" ..

(base components)
24 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601
16 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603
8 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)
6 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624

(viscosity components)
24 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish
10 oz. Distilled / Tap Water

(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077
17.5 ml Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7)
12.5 ml Delta Ultra Blue #02038

* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - L (Lite)**

** use 2 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components' Originally Posted by pb_maxxx

Originally Posted by pb_maxxx

I don't understand the mixing instructions for the Silver Fire; I don't understand why you can just throw the components together and mix it up and spray? Also, I will be spraying my screen with a Wagner 0417005 HVLP Control Sprayer. I found in on Amazon, used, in excellent condition for less than half the retail price.

For the EasyFlex I understand you add poly coats to increase the gain, but don't know if the gain will be boosted enough? Painting over new sheet rock primed with Kilz II. Which do you thinks I should try for my situation? Appreciate the help and sorry for the newbie questions, but sure would appreciate some advice. Thanks
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post #200 of 235 Old 12-28-2007, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi footfault,

For your dedicated theater and properly directed ambient light I would suggest you really look t the Designer White laminate.
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post #201 of 235 Old 12-29-2007, 06:26 AM
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I can only comment on the Silver Fire mix. My recommendation is to not go with this advanced formula if this is your first screen and you don't intend on making painting projection screens a hobby.

While I think creating a gray screen paint by mixing red, green and blue tints (which Silver Fire does) is a good theory, I'm not sure the benefits are worth it over a gray paint based on lamp black.

I think the 3 component mixes of Silver Fire are meant to make adjusting the formula easier if the need arises. The first two component mixes are simple to make, the Color Component mix isn't. These paints, especially the green, are thick and stick to whatever you are using to measure them, and due to the small amount of paint used, this can make a noticeable difference in the color of the final mix.

Of the 3 different samples of Silver Fire to be tested with a spectrophotometer, they all showed significant color differences.

I'm not saying Silver Fire is bad, just that it is an advanced, perhaps even somewhat experimental, mix and, IMO, isn't for someone who just wants to make a single screen and be done with it.

I made a Silver Fire screen, but due to a back injury I haven't gotten it up yet.
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post #202 of 235 Old 12-29-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Hi footfault,

For your dedicated theater and properly directed ambient light I would suggest you really look t the Designer White laminate.

Hi Tiddler,

I appreciate your response, thanks for taking the time...

I'll definitely take a look at designer white.

However, recommending a white screen seems a little curious since so many reviews of the Mit 4900 projector recommend a gray screen to increase blacks that are reportedly a little week. Sorry if not putting my projector info in my post above miss lead you. It may turn out the blacks are just fine for me and so is a white screen (w contrast boost) - blacks the Mit 4900 are reportedly better than my old projector and they seemed fine to us on a (106) smaller gray screen. I imagine after I read the Designer White thread I will find a formula that will add a little contrast/blacks. So it sounds like the answer to finding an ideal screen is to start with this Designer White screen. Later, if we like, we can make up some sample screen sheets (gray, silver..) and see if we like them better. We tried this with our old projector, different white and gray samples, and couldn't see much of a difference. Am I on the right track?

One last thing, do you know why children dislike it when Santa is no longer around? Because they prefer his presents? (my nephew's)

Thanks...

Happy holidays
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post #203 of 235 Old 12-29-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post

I can only comment on the Silver Fire mix. My recommendation is to not go with this advanced formula if this is your first screen and you don't intend on making painting projection screens a hobby.

While I think creating a gray screen paint by mixing red, green and blue tints (which Silver Fire does) is a good theory, I'm not sure the benefits are worth it over a gray paint based on lamp black.

I think the 3 component mixes of Silver Fire are meant to make adjusting the formula easier if the need arises. The first two component mixes are simple to make, the Color Component mix isn't. These paints, especially the green, are thick and stick to whatever you are using to measure them, and due to the small amount of paint used, this can make a noticeable difference in the color of the final mix.

Of the 3 different samples of Silver Fire to be tested with a spectrophotometer, they all showed significant color differences.

I'm not saying Silver Fire is bad, just that it is an advanced, perhaps even somewhat experimental, mix and, IMO, isn't for someone who just wants to make a single screen and be done with it.

I made a Silver Fire screen, but due to a back injury I haven't gotten it up yet.

I am definitely not an expert and the Silver Fire sounds not only too complicated but more challenge than I want to take on.

Thanks for your advise...
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post #204 of 235 Old 12-29-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault View Post

I am definitely not an expert and the Silver Fire sounds not only too complicated but more challenge than I want to take on.

Thanks for your advise...

No problem. that's what we're all here for, to help and be helped.

If you think you might end up painting the laminate Tiddler recommended (to get a gray), I think I, personally, would go with paint to start with and use a much cheaper substrate to paint. Using laminate as a paintable substrate is the expensive way to go.

You could get something like hardboard (1/8 inch or 1/4 inch depending on how you want to mount it) and paint it with one of the recommended white paints and give that a shot. If you need some contrast improvement then go with a gray paint, if still more contrast is needed try adding a poly top coat. If still more contrast is needed then use a darker gray for the next coat. You get the drift. This same procedure could be followed if you are painting a wall instead of a piece of hardboard or other substrate.
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post #205 of 235 Old 12-29-2007, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault View Post

Hi Tiddler,

I appreciate your response, thanks for taking the time...

I'll definitely take a look at designer white.

However, recommending a white screen seems a little curious since so many reviews of the Mit 4900 projector recommend a gray screen to increase blacks that are reportedly a little week. Sorry if not putting my projector info in my post above miss lead you. It may turn out the blacks are just fine for me and so is a white screen (w contrast boost) - blacks the Mit 4900 are reportedly better than my old projector and they seemed fine to us on a (106) smaller gray screen. I imagine after I read the Designer White thread I will find a formula that will add a little contrast/blacks. So it sounds like the answer to finding an ideal screen is to start with this Designer White screen. Later, if we like, we can make up some sample screen sheets (gray, silver..) and see if we like them better. We tried this with our old projector, different white and gray samples, and couldn't see much of a difference. Am I on the right track?

One last thing, do you know why children dislike it when Santa is no longer around? Because they prefer his presents? (my nephew's)

Thanks...

Happy holidays

I'm not familiar with the Mit 4900. If people are suggesting a gray screen then that is probably what you want.
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post #206 of 235 Old 12-31-2007, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
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post #207 of 235 Old 01-02-2008, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
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post #208 of 235 Old 01-02-2008, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
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post #209 of 235 Old 01-03-2008, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Tiddler's Thoughts On Pearl Clear Coats

I have done a lot of tinkering with the pearl paints available from local stores like Michaels and Wal-Mart. I do believe I determined the best choice of pearl products to use for our purposes. If I could have located an easy source of metallic micro spheres or something of that nature I would have tried using it instead.

The pearl clear coat options presented in this thread do work and have served many people well. They have been especially effective for people with older or DIY projectors with low lumen output. For those users, the added effort seems well worth the effort.

For many beginners with current projectors like the Mitsubishi and Panasonic crop of high output projectors, I think a good quality matte finish paint is all that they should be using to implement a DIY Painted Screen.

The Pearl Clear Coats can be a bit tricky to apply without getting streaks and do tend to lighten the overall shade of gray. They do boost gain and in turn reduce viewing cone some. The benefit of them over a similar shade of good quality matte paint is marginal. With higher lumen projectors I also suspect you run the risk of hot spotting.

I have an Optoma HD72 projector that puts out 395 video optimized lumens. My current screen is probably a bit darker than ideal. I used the Behr Exterior ULTRA UPW Flat paint with a near neutral gray tint based on the Xrite N7 tint passed on to me by wbassett. I have a second retractable that I will also paint but a bit lighter shade.

I believe it was bub16415 who said that his goal was a screen that seemed to disappear when in use. I now know what he means by that. With this simple one can solution (near neutral gray with the right finish) I find I don't even think about the screen when watching a movie anymore. I've never really been sure what people meant by pop in the image. I have noticed a kind of shimmering effect in some paint samples. Those with high amounts of mica tend to do this with very bright parts of the image. If this is what people mean by "pop" or "plasma like" then they have been striving for something unnatural in the image.

So while I have presented several options in this thread, with an effort not to show any preference, I feel I should point out that in my opinion, the best paint solution for those of us with projectors capable of 400 lumens or more is simply a good quality matte paint. If you want to have a gray screen then use a neutral or near neutral gray tint.

I'm just pointing out that most of us really don't need a pearl clear coat and should consider very carefully if we want the extra effort and added risk of not producing a uniform screen surface.

As far as durability goes, the scrubable matte paints may actually be a better choice than a poly top coat. If you scratch a poly top coat it is impossible to touch it up. Scratch a matte paint and you can touch it up by dabbing on some paint with a foam brush. If you screw up a pearl or poly top coat you have to start over with a gray base. In the end I m not sure the effort and risk is worth the benefit if you have a newer projector.

There do seem to be some promising developments in the DIY Screen community with regards to an enhancing additive for the basic matte wall paint. Preliminary reports suggest it is a screen that looks like an N7 gray but produces whites like an N9 gray. As soon as that is made public I will be the first one to refer you folks to it. In the meantime unless you really need a higher gain screen I strongly suggest you start off with a good quality matte finish paint. IMHO that is the best DIY painted screen solution for most people with a fairly current HT or presentation projector.

For those that do need to squeeze as much gain as possible out of their screen I stand behind the pearl clear coat solutions presented in this thread. They are my best offering based on products available from local retailers in most parts of North America. While I do acknowledge that the pearl clear coats or simple polyurethane top coat may have some effect on the color or shade of the screen, I have not seen or been able to demonstrate any shift significant enough as to make these solutions unacceptable.

Nice post Todd.

And just to put the above in terms of Foot lamberts. Assuming most of the world wants a screen in the 16:9 AR and of a size between 90 and 110 inches. Has a room that is fairly good with light control. So take the larger screen size 110 or 54x96 that's 36 sq ft of screen needing illumination. 400 lumens / 36 sq ft = 11 FL on the brighter end of the newer units I'm sure 500 lumens is very obtainable 500 lumens / 36 = 13.8 FL right in the middle of the widely thought perfect range for a movie like experience. So a 1.0 gain screen is not so far off the mark for most people.

With the fairly light neutral grays N8 , N9 etc the light loss from the gray can be offset with a little controlled sheen from a poly topcoat or from a poly blend into the gray paint as I did. And bring us back up to the 1.0 area in gain.

I had an AVS member bring his new 1080p projector over to my place a few weeks ago to test it against my screen. My first thoughts were my screen being selected around a 2000 lumen presentation projector might not fair well with this new high tech projector. But just the opposite happened, even in econo mode his projector did a great job on my less than 1.0 gray.

I don't know if all the new offering have this kind of horsepower but this one did so they are out there. My feeling was based around my eyes and having viewed my setup for a year and a half and watched bulb dimming etc. that this new projector was easily in the 500 plus lumen area with movie content playing and would as you posted above need nothing more than the most basic of screens. He brought with him a full size piece of BOC we also tested and with the excellent CR numbers on his projector the image was every bit as good on BOC as with my neutral gray screen. That was when all my light control measures were in place. As we added in ambient lighting the gray as expected took a slight leg up but it wasn't huge. If I had to guess by eye maybe 2 or 3% improvement in PQ. And it's hard to guess percentages up on the excellent end of the PQ range.

The BOC did provide a very screen-less look to the image and based around simplicity I told him if it were me in his light control room I would frame the BOC and enjoy it for a while and maybe paint it down the road if he wanted that slight improvement.


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post #210 of 235 Old 01-03-2008, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Tiddler's Thoughts On Pearl Clear Coats
For many beginners with current projectors like the Mitsubishi and Panasonic crop of high output projectors, I think a good quality matte finish paint is all that they should be using to implement a DIY Painted Screen.

The Pearl Clear Coats can be a bit tricky to apply without getting streaks and do tend to lighten the overall shade of gray. They do boost gain and in turn reduce viewing cone some. The benefit of them over a similar shade of good quality matte paint is marginal. With higher lumen projectors I also suspect you run the risk of hot spotting.

Thanks so much for your help in putting together this guide! I am a beginner and found it extremely helpful. I struggled with whether or not to try the Pearl coat. I like to watch shows during the day with some outside light coming in and at night with lights on. I have a Panny AE900 so lumens are not a problem. I decided to try two coats of N8 formula plus 2 coats of Poly with Pearl. I finished this past weekend after reading this thread multiple times. The grey color was a huge improvement over my old white. The Pearl coat did make it brighter. I probably did not need that though with my projector and I am not sure it made ambient light issues any better which was my intent.

I watched the videos on downrolling and tried my best but roller painting is obviously not my thing. After two coats, I have streaks. They are not terrible but noticeable to a novice like me when the screen is a bright consistent color (all snow in Ice Age for example). After reading this post, I think I should have not used the Pearl but that is how we learn. Would putting a third coat of Poly and/or Poly with Pearl help or hurt to get rid of the streaks? Otherwise, can I just put one coat of the basic grey matte back on top of the Pearl to go back to screen without Pearl coat?

Thanks again so much for your work on this forum. On a separate topic, I made some modifications to my recessed lighting based on your 'bad, better, best' tips in beginner guide. The tips seemed obvious once I read them but it triggered me to make some immediate and significant improvements to my room by adjusting my recessed lights and changing out baffles per the tips. Thanks!
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