EasyFlex Family of DIY Painted Screen Solutions - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 235 Old 01-03-2008, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skskarda View Post

Thanks so much for your help in putting together this guide! I am a beginner and found it extremely helpful. I struggled with whether or not to try the Pearl coat. I like to watch shows during the day with some outside light coming in and at night with lights on. I have a Panny AE900 so lumens are not a problem. I decided to try two coats of N8 formula plus 2 coats of Poly with Pearl. I finished this past weekend after reading this thread multiple times. The grey color was a huge improvement over my old white. The Pearl coat did make it brighter. I probably did not need that though with my projector and I am not sure it made ambient light issues any better which was my intent.

I watched the videos on downrolling and tried my best but roller painting is obviously not my thing. After two coats, I have streaks. They are not terrible but noticeable to a novice like me when the screen is a bright consistent color (all snow in Ice Age for example). After reading this post, I think I should have not used the Pearl but that is how we learn. Would putting a third coat of Poly and/or Poly with Pearl help or hurt to get rid of the streaks? Otherwise, can I just put one coat of the basic grey matte back on top of the Pearl to go back to screen without Pearl coat?

Thanks again so much for your work on this forum. On a separate topic, I made some modifications to my recessed lighting based on your 'bad, better, best' tips in beginner guide. The tips seemed obvious once I read them but it triggered me to make some immediate and significant improvements to my room by adjusting my recessed lights and changing out baffles per the tips. Thanks!

Yes you should be able to simply paint over the pearl clear coat. I would recommend two coats if you have the paint.
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post #212 of 235 Old 01-10-2008, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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The EasyFlex solution is basically dead now but I ran across something this morning that may at least represent a tiny bit of vindication for me.

From the Neutral Gray thread, Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen material has an RGB of 203 205 200.

From the Behr Color Laboratory testing of the original EF06 (2:1) tint, prof55 measured 203 205 201, rfisher measured 205 206 201, and finally the Behr Color Lab measured 205 206 200. Nat bad for someone limited to using my eyes to try to match the color of the Da-Lite HCMW. From what I have seen of comparisons of proprietary tint variances, I am well within the error band.

The two coats of Behr Matte Polyurethane had the following effect:

prof55 - rfisher- Behr
203 205 201 - 205 206 201 - 205 206 200 == EF06
200 202 197 - 203 204 197 - 205 206 199 == EF06 + 2 Coats Behr Polyurethane #780
-3 -3 -4 . . . . -2 -2 -4 . . . . 0 0 -1 . . . . == shift

There is quite a variation between the readings. Behr seems to be the odd man out with the least change due to the polyurethane top coat. Unfortunately I did not send them any pearl clear coat samples. At the time I did not feel it would be appropriate to ask the Behr Color Lab to do this type of testing on products from another manufacturer.

So while the color balance of the EasyFlex tints may have been way off neutral gray they were actually what I had been aiming for and that was the Da-Lite HCMW. In fact when I compared the EF tint with a pearl clear coat to my buddies Da-Lite HCMW it was hard to tell them apart other than a slight difference in shade.

This is not meant as any kind of argument in favor of using the original EF tints or pearl clear coats. Simply an explanation of how I was lead astray by using the Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen material as a guideline of what to strive for. If the white coats at Da-Lite can be this wrong then I guess I should not feel too bad, Eh!?
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post #213 of 235 Old 01-15-2008, 07:21 PM
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tiddler (or anyone that might help),

I have a new pulldown Elite white screen (rated 1.1) and I really hate the sparkly hotspotting it creates . It gets in the way of the picture to me. The slight sheen on top of the texture most likely is the culprit.

Would painting over it with one of the Behr white paints get rid of the sparkles? I really don't want to mess with the clear solutions as it might bring uniformity problems. Being a pulldown, will the paint chip off over time? What do you think could be the fix?
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post #214 of 235 Old 01-15-2008, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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After a chat with HDholic that mech was able to join in on we concluded that since his screen is white and he wants it to remain white but just wants to kill the sheen, he should consider the Behr or Valspar clear polyurethanes. The Behr being matte and the Valspar being flat.

HDholic is goint to try applying the polyurethane to something vinyl and see how well it adheres. This is new ground! Hope it works out and HDholic can fix his sheen problem.
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post #215 of 235 Old 01-16-2008, 08:13 PM
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I would say to stay away from the Behr poly. It does go on yellow and gets yellower over time. On a white screen, you will notice it. The Valspar product is not a polyurethane. It is called a clear protector. I am assuming that it is an acrylic emulsion much like some of the artists clear mediums. It goes on very clear, and flat, and stays clear. I am experimenting with this product right now. It is a bit thick; paint like viscosity. But workable. A little water may help you.

Why don't you just repaint it with Behr 4850? It's the nicest white paint that I have used. It is the base for my latest screen , CGIV. It is a nicer white than UPW or Kilz and will probably be in the same gain range if not better. And it comes in a flat or satin sheen. The flat is nice and flat, so no hotspotting.

Good luck!

Meow.
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post #216 of 235 Old 01-16-2008, 08:32 PM
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What are you applying Valspar on? I keep going a bit back and forth about using the clear products or the white Behr paint. Have you painted a manufactured screen b4?
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post #217 of 235 Old 01-16-2008, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benven View Post

I would say to stay away from the Behr poly. It does go on yellow and gets yellower over time. On a white screen, you will notice it. The Valspar product is not a polyurethane. It is called a clear protector. I am assuming that it is an acrylic emulsion much like some of the artists clear mediums. It goes on very clear, and flat, and stays clear. I am experimenting with this product right now. It is a bit thick; paint like viscosity. But workable. A little water may help you.

Why don't you just repaint it with Behr 4850? It's the nicest white paint that I have used. It is the base for my latest screen , CGIV. It is a nicer white than UPW or Kilz and will probably be in the same gain range if not better. And it comes in a flat or satin sheen. The flat is nice and flat, so no hotspotting.

Good luck!

Ben, have you tried the satin?
I would expect it to hot spot. Is it less sheen than eggshell?
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post #218 of 235 Old 01-16-2008, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

What are you applying Valspar on? I keep going a bit back and forth about using the clear products or the white Behr paint. Have you painted a manufactured screen b4?

Benven uses Valspar as a clear medium for his metallic powder clear coat. I'm not sure what he paints for his own screen, but he has sent me a sample painted on some white vinyl.

I have painted two retractable screens. Since I wanted to go gray I used paint. I have also tried paint with a polyurethane top coat.

In your case, HDholic, you have a white screen with too much sheen, and you don't want to go gray so it was suggested to try the Behr 780 on some white hardboard to see what you think. The Valspar flat clear protector sounds like it is clearer (less yellow) than the Behr 780. The behr 780 will definitely make a bright white screen look more yellow or like a warm white.

So basically you have two choices, apply a clear flat coating to kill the sheen, or apply a matte white paint to cover the screen surface completely.

From what benven has said the Valspar is thicker than a polyurethane. I have not used it so I have no idea how well it spreads or levels. If it is anything like the Behr 780 then it will be very easy to apply and get a very nice uniform finish. Much easier than paint usually is. Unfortunately there are no Lowes in my area so I cannot give it a try. The other concern I have with the polyurethane or clear protector is how well it will adhere to the vinyl screen material.

The Behr Ext. ULTRA UPW Flat 4850 that Benven mentioned, is what I am using to paint retractable screens. I find it spreads and levels very well, leaving a nice smooth matte finish. It is self-priming so that eliminates a layer of primer. Over a white screen you may even get away with one coat. Even if you do apply two coats the paint layer is surprisingly thin. Assuming you have read/watched the Basic Roller Painting Instructions and are able to apply the paint well then you will end up with a very nice matte white screen. No unwanted sheen or texture. I am also very confident that it will adhere to the screen as long as you clean it well with Windex with ammonia.

Regardless of whether you use paint or a clear flat coating, watching and implementing the screen painting instruction will determine your outcome. It is not difficult but I think most people apply too much pressure when roller painting and that leads to tracks. The secret is to just apply enough pressure to make the roller roll.

I have been logging my most recent retractable screen painting work in the thread Retractable Screen Painting - The Final Development and that is where you will see photos of how I do it. This weekend I will be painting the screen area and that is what will be of most interest to you. There will be more photos and comments.

For a breif summary of painting retractable screens, take a look at the Painting Retractable Screens chapter-post in the Beginner's Guide.

The biggest difference between painting a fixed rigid substrate screen and a retractable screen is the hold of the bottom bar.


Click image to enlarge.


Then it is just like painting a wall screen.



The fact that you cannot put a lot of pressure on the roller, actually will prevent you from creating roller tracks.

I guess the bottom line is that the Behr 4850 paint is the known and proven solution, in the short term. I have only had painted retractable screens for a year. I have no idea what these screen will be like in 5 years. Applying the Valspar Clear Protector is a complete unknown, unless you opt to do some experimenting and convince yourself to try it on your screen.
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post #219 of 235 Old 01-17-2008, 10:49 AM
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tiddler, what screen is that you painted, Dalite? I'm thinking about trying the Valspar as well. Anyone know the SKU or part # for this item from Lowes?
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post #220 of 235 Old 01-17-2008, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

tiddler, what screen is that you painted, Dalite? I'm thinking about trying the Valspar as well. Anyone know the SKU or part # for this item from Lowes?

That is an EluneVision screen from EastPorters. They are made in China and there is speculation they may be made in the same factory as the Elite screens.

The Valspar product is call Flat Clear Protector For Faux Finishes. I can't find it on the Lowes website. The website has the American Traditions Clear Protector though.
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post #221 of 235 Old 01-17-2008, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

What are you applying Valspar on? I keep going a bit back and forth about using the clear products or the white Behr paint. Have you painted a manufactured screen b4?

Hi HDholic,

I am applying the Valspar on test panels made of foamboard or MDF. Previously painted panels. I have never tried it on a manufacturer screen. If yuo are going down that road I would recommend getting some vinyl fabric and doing some test swatches.

tiddler, I have tried the satin. It does hotspot. But not alot. A 50/50 mix of the flat and the satin would be just the trick

Meow.
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post #222 of 235 Old 01-17-2008, 05:30 PM
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benven, could you give me the item# for the Valspar? Can't find it on the site. How are your samples working?
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post #223 of 235 Old 01-19-2008, 07:53 AM
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Hi HD, I live in Canada so the number may be different. I am using Valspar 64675 Clear Protector. I beleive it is the same as the American Traditions that mission313 and 1Time have used in the past.

AS for how it works, please see the attached jpeg of my measurements in HCFR. The dotted line is the reference file, ie no topcoat CGIV. AS you can see the topcoated CGIV panel is a little better in the gray scale. A little better in luminance. You won't see the luminance number in the screen shot. Don't worry about the topend becuase my previous screen had a red push and I had to reduce red gain. I can no longer get into the service menu so I can't make that adjustment at the top end. The only adjustments I made to get my gray scale like that were user menu related. BenQ PB6200 is the projector.
LL

Meow.
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post #224 of 235 Old 01-19-2008, 07:21 PM
 
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As Ben stated, the 50/50 does work well as does other combinations.

mech
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post #225 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 09:04 AM
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has anyone tried painting with a spray gun ??
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post #226 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

As Ben stated, the 50/50 does work well as does other combinations.

You mean 50% satin/50% matte mix? Is it necessary? What about just matte?
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post #227 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

You mean 50% satin/50% matte mix? Is it necessary? What about just matte?

It is a flat and a satin thus creating a matte.

mech
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post #228 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

You mean 50% satin/50% matte mix? Is it necessary? What about just matte?

I beleive Benven was suggesting that a mixture of flat 4850 with the satin enamel 9850 would raise the gain without hot spotting. I would suggest the Flat 4850 is already what I would call a matte or low-lustre sheen.

I will be doing a few trials of mixtures of the 4850 with matte and satin polyurethane. This out of interest and also to see if it would be beneficial for my final screen painting. Typically a mixture of paint and polyurethane plus about 10-15% water creates a paint that can be applied using the two roller techniques and that results in a perfectly smooth finish devoid of any texture whatsoever.

As always the first concern is that the polyurethane will shift the color balance of the gray tint slightly. We will have to see.

Maybe benven or mech could comment on the clarity of the Minnwax Satin Polyurethane?
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post #229 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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I assumed we were talking Clear Coat Protectors. Which would be a mixture of the Valspar Satin and Flat CCP.

As for the color shifting, flat is virtually none. Testing is currently under way for flat/satin CCP mixes but I'll go out on a limb and say it'd be the same.

I have no idea what the 4850 and the 9850 are. I'm guessing behr paint?

mech
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post #230 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

I assumed we were talking Clear Coat Protectors. Which would be a mixture of the Valspar Satin and Flat CCP.

As for the color shifting, flat is virtually none. Testing is currently under way for flat/satin CCP mixes but I'll go out on a limb and say it'd be the same.

I have no idea what the 4850 and the 9850 are. I'm guessing behr paint?

mech

Behr Premium Plus Ultra Exterior Flat #4850

The 9850 is the same base but in a satin Enamel.

I'm fairly sure benven was referring to these paints because his comments were in reply to a quaetion I had asked him.
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post #231 of 235 Old 01-20-2008, 05:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Behr Premium Plus Ultra Exterior Flat #4850

The 9850 is the same base but in a satin Enamel.

I'm fairly sure benven was referring to these paints because his comments were in reply to a quaetion I had asked him.

Ahhh, I see now!

mech
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post #232 of 235 Old 01-22-2008, 05:59 PM
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Well, I jumped head first (got a stiff neck now...) and applied a coat of Valspar to the entire screen last night. After about 2.5 hours drying time, I fired the projector. Sparkles were COMPLETELY gone! Worked beautifully. I think I could have used the satin finish and still kill the sparkles. I'm thinking about a 2nd coat of satin, but I'm not sure if it would make a visible difference in brightness.

As far as the Valspar holding on to the vinyl screen, well it looks and feels like it came from factory ! I scraped the surface w. my nails today and tough as nails it is (adhesion wise, not stiffness ).
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post #233 of 235 Old 01-22-2008, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #234 of 235 Old 01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Well, I jumped head first (got a stiff neck now...) and applied a coat of Valspar to the entire screen last night. After about 2.5 hours drying time, I fired the projector. Sparkles were COMPLETELY gone! Worked beautifully. I think I could have used the satin finish and still kill the sparkles. I'm thinking about a 2nd coat of satin, but I'm not sure if it would make a visible difference in brightness.

As far as the Valspar holding on to the vinyl screen, well it looks and feels like it came from factory ! I scraped the surface w. my nails today and tough as nails it is (adhesion wise, not stiffness ).

No satin would have created more problems!

mech
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post #235 of 235 Old 01-23-2008, 05:15 AM
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Great news HD. You may want to try a blend of the satin and flat clear protector. The straight up satin, as mech pointed out, would probably give you back the same problem you had.

I can't see why anyone would want to use the Behr Matte Poly after this experience. The only reason would be that if you don't have a Lowes nearby.

Meow.
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