The tints that were developed as a part of this thread were shown to be way off neutral gray.
The Pearl Clear Coats were also determined to shift the color too much. In addition most people are not able to apply the pearl clear coats without getting streaks.
We have just completed a screen with 2 coats of the "old" FN Easy 3 and 2 coats of the clearcoat/1x pearlizing medium topcoat. This was done after I had test samples made up over a period of nearly 3 months and was delayed due to my extended business trips.
First Tiddler, the screen is great. The Grey Cup was fantastic on it. The gain is also very good, a big improvement just like I saw on my test samples. Hockey, with the white ice and deeper colored jerseys is also very good.
I realized when reading the forums that I could have switched to a more neutral grey but since I invested in all the materials decided against it. Maybe it was the scotsmen in me...
Anyway we can adjust the color on our Panasonic AE 700 to fix/calibrate the color and frankly I would have done this anyway. A one time 10 minute fix.
We are very pleased with our screen. Certainly as good or better than we would have expected. Better than various screen samples we looked at and a huge improvement over the white wall. The black velvet framed border finishes it off very well and provides agreat contrast.
Tiddler, I would like to thank you and every one else for all their posts which have educated me so much. Cheers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsingh31 /forum/post/12340754
Tiddler,
Thanks for all the hard work. Having gone through all the threads...I am a little confused now as to what is the final conclusion on grey paint if any ?
I don't want to answer for Todd, and he can feel free to add to this explanation.
The reason for the range of Gray paints with and without the poly and with and without the poly and metallic's is that all projectors, screen sizes and room environments (ambient light) are not the same.
The idea behind all of this is to allow a selection process so that each unique set of circumstances can get to a close fit for that person. And then like RossB posted that last little bit can be handled at the projectors calibration.
One of the major calibrations that needs to be tweaked thru the life of the projectors bulb is brightness. That is also the one factor a neutral gray has the most effect on. So I have always recommended if when you are making the paint shade choice with a new projector you factor in the eventual dimming that will take place with the bulb. That combined with being as close to neutral as possible is why one of these tested paints is a good starting point.
On the issue of poly and any types of metallic's being added. They are not magic ingredients, they help with adding gain to the reflective surface of the paint and diminish viewing cone in proportion. Gain is a very good thing if you need it. And the best method to date for selecting the right paint for your screen is one of two methods. Experiment as Ross told about in his above post. Or seek out advice from someone with a similar bright projector on the same size screen with similar room light control.
I have my Panny 2000U ceiling mounted from a 9 foot suspended/drop ceiling in my basement - projecting on a DIY (16:9 widescreen) 160" drywall screen (Yes - its huge painted a neutral gray (Easyflex N8 per Tiddler's formula) from a 18 foot distance. Plan to add a couple of pearlizing topcoats when I finally get the Folkart pearlizing medium. But I could even do without the pearlizing coats - as the picture is really bright and accurate colors. I am using the 'Eco' mode and 'Normal' picture setting. I also like the Cinema 1 setting. Dynamic is too bright.
My wall was originally white - and I painted the wall half gray to see if there would be a difference. The neutral gray brought out deeper blacks, richer colors. The 'whites' got muted a little (..very slightly) - but they were very bright anyways on a white wall to begin with. I am hoping that with the pearling coat the Whites will improve a tad.
Room is completely light contolled - but even with some ambient lighting - the picture looks amazing. You will have to re-calibrate the projector / picture after doing the screen gray (if you so choose) using DVD essentials or just a plain old THX set up menu in one of the DVD's. (ex. Pirates of the Caribbean and Finding Nemo have a THX set-up option)
Do you folks think that the Pearlizing coats will improve the whites ? Or should I play with any other settings on the projector ? If so - what settings ? Gamma, Color, Contrast ...? What settings will help the white levels most on the Panny 2000U / 1080p ?
With your bright projector and satisfying results I would leave well enough alone. My screen is Behr ULTRA UPW #4850 without any top coat and I am very happy with it.
Per a couple of posts above this one - I used the #4850 with:
Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0
Believe its the N8 tint mix ?
Yes - whites are not the same as when I had the white wall. Blacks are far better. Just wondering if the pearlizing coat will help in bringing out the whites further or not. If not - then no reason for me to do the topcoat. Brightness is great - even in Eco-mode and the Blu-ray content looks fantastic !
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsingh31 /forum/post/12562396
Per a couple of posts above this one - I used the #4850 with:
Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0
Believe its the N8 tint mix ?
Yes - whites are not the same as when I had the white wall. Blacks are far better. Just wondering if the pearlizing coat will help in bringing out the whites further or not. If not - then no reason for me to do the topcoat. Brightness is great - even in Eco-mode and the Blu-ray content looks fantastic !
Jsingh31 screen shots please. I don't know I have a panny200 and I don't see feel the projector is all that bright. I just bought some poster boards and want to try out some of Tiddlers suggestion. I also picked up the behr 4850, wondering if I should go back and get it tinted. I'm also looking for this winter mist that a couple true value stores don't have a clue. I may go get the glidden snowfield. Whats the difference between these two tints as far a shades go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s /forum/post/12566698
Jsingh31 screen shots please. I don't know I have a panny200 and I don't see feel the projector is all that bright. I just bought some poster boards and want to try out some of Tiddlers suggestion. I also picked up the behr 4850, wondering if I should go back and get it tinted. I'm also looking for this winter mist that a couple true value stores don't have a clue. I may go get the glidden snowfield. Whats the difference between these two tints as far a shades go.
The first tint is darker and based on a neutral gray tint that was provided by Xrite. The second tint is lighter and not as neutral as it should be. It does however seem to have worked acceptably for many people. The ideal gray is neutral though.
If you have a Lowes near you, they can mix up any color from any brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12562012
Hi Robert,
With your bright projector and satisfying results I would leave well enough alone. My screen is Behr ULTRA UPW #4850 without any top coat and I am very happy with it.
Can you verify this? Neither of the Lowes close to me could match it. But my confidence level in the folks who I talked to was low. They said something about a Walmart Winter Mist but not True Value.
I just bought Valspar Signature Series Matte Winter Mist today at Lowe's. The color came up as "Tru Color" Winter Mist 1983. The CSR said he thought Tru Color is the same as True Value.
mech, fletcha is correct. the rep punched in the computer a search for winter mist and 2 winter mist tints came up. One from trucolors winter mist 1983 and the other I believe was a sherman or walmart as you said. I'm not 100% on the second brand, I don't remember. However two tints definitely came up. I saw it on the computer myself, as he asked him which one i wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl.s /forum/post/12581339
mech, fletcha is correct. the rep punched in the computer a search for winter mist and 2 winter mist tints came up. One from trucolors winter mist 1983 and the other I believe was a sherman or walmart as you said. I'm not 100% on the second brand, I don't remember. However two tints definitely came up. I saw it on the computer myself, as he asked him which one i wanted.
Thank you both!! I ran out of Winter Mist and it's a pain to get to my local True Value. I need a good substitute. Did either of you happen to catch what the DeltaE error was on it? If it was under 1 they wouldn't have said anything and you'd have to be looking at the screen to catch it. I tried to match something else and it was above 1 (I believe 1.46) and they said it would be close. But not close enough for my purposes.
mech, I did ask for how close will the match be. He did say it should identical but no error margin was ever discussed. I would imagine there is error even with the original in some form of another.
I used a lot of cutting and pasting form various posts, mostly Tidler's to help ask my questions - thanks Tidler
I suspect a lot of new Mit 4900 owners, like me, will be looking to build one of these screens. Based on Projector Central's projector calculator I need 1.3 gain to put my projector in the middle of their recommended green range Also, I calculated the FL and I believe this will give me about 15-16 FL (foot lamberts) which I understand is the brightness we are after for a good picture. I have a bat cave with dark walls for watching movies (80% of our viewing), but we do watch 20% sports with a little ambient light. Big 120" screen requires the extra gain, I may have to bring down the screen size to up the brightness, I hope not....!
I understand this is a recommended natural gray tint guide for a quart of Behr ULTRA UPW #4850:
Quart Custom Tint
Behr ULTRA UPW #4850
0 10 0 Lamp Black
0 5 0 Yellow Oxide
================
Take this to Home Depot
they will mix it for you.
This base (above) gray alone is very dark and not meant to work on it's own, it need the Pearlizing Clear Coat or 2xPearl Clear Coat if you can't get the Folkart Pearlizing Medium. (Tidler)
Or should I use (lighter ?):
Behr Ultra UPW #4850 (~N8)
Lamp Black 0 10 1
Brown Oxide 0 2 0
Medium Yellow 0 1 0
So in the end this beginner's solution is made up of four basic layers. The first is a smooth flat substrate such as a properly prepared wall or a suitably sized piece of MDF. The next layer is comprised of a couple of coats of your favorite primer. Then a couple of coats of either a flat white latex or custom tinted balanced gray latex paint. The final layer is two coats of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780.
That's it folks, the Easy-Flex DIY Painted Screen Solution in a nutshell ( thks Tidler).
Well how does this compare to "SILVER FIRE" ..
(base components)
24 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601
16 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603
8 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)
6 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
(viscosity components)
24 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish
10 oz. Distilled / Tap Water
(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077
17.5 ml Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7)
12.5 ml Delta Ultra Blue #02038
* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'
-------------------------
Silver Fire - L (Lite)**
** use 2 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'
-------------------------
Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***
*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components' Originally Posted by pb_maxxx
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx
I don't understand the mixing instructions for the Silver Fire; I don't understand why you can just throw the components together and mix it up and spray? Also, I will be spraying my screen with a Wagner 0417005 HVLP Control Sprayer. I found in on Amazon, used, in excellent condition for less than half the retail price.
For the EasyFlex I understand you add poly coats to increase the gain, but don't know if the gain will be boosted enough? Painting over new sheet rock primed with Kilz II. Which do you thinks I should try for my situation? Appreciate the help and sorry for the newbie questions, but sure would appreciate some advice. Thanks
I can only comment on the Silver Fire mix. My recommendation is to not go with this advanced formula if this is your first screen and you don't intend on making painting projection screens a hobby.
While I think creating a gray screen paint by mixing red, green and blue tints (which Silver Fire does) is a good theory, I'm not sure the benefits are worth it over a gray paint based on lamp black.
I think the 3 component mixes of Silver Fire are meant to make adjusting the formula easier if the need arises. The first two component mixes are simple to make, the Color Component mix isn't. These paints, especially the green, are thick and stick to whatever you are using to measure them, and due to the small amount of paint used, this can make a noticeable difference in the color of the final mix.
Of the 3 different samples of Silver Fire to be tested with a spectrophotometer, they all showed significant color differences.
I'm not saying Silver Fire is bad, just that it is an advanced, perhaps even somewhat experimental, mix and, IMO, isn't for someone who just wants to make a single screen and be done with it.
I made a Silver Fire screen, but due to a back injury I haven't gotten it up yet.
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