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post #1 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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NOTICE: This thread will no longer be supported! Any proven useful information has been transfered to the sticky Beginner's Guide To Simple DIY Painted Screens.


The tints that were developed as a part of this thread were shown to be way off neutral gray.

The Pearl Clear Coats were also determined to shift the color too much. In addition most people are not able to apply the pearl clear coats without getting streaks.


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post #2 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Introduction

As stated in the first post, this thread is no longer supported. Please refer to the sticky Beginner's Guide To Simple DIY Painted Screens for information on simple painted screens.


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post #3 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Behr Paints


Behr PREMIUM PLUS® Interior Flat Ultra Pure White (UPW) #1050

This is a very inexpensive product at around $10 a quart. It is quite thick but if applied properly it levels out fairly well.

It is "flat" with no sheen at all and is rough feeling. As a flat paint it will hide some pretty rough surfaces even under the bright light of a projector. For that reason I only recommend it be used alone when you are using a rough surface as your substrate. Generally it is recommended that you use as smooth a substrate as possible. That is not always possible. For example you may not want to build a screen and the wall that is available for a paint-on screen may be quite rough. Even a cement block wall with reasonably shallow grout lines could work. It would require several coats due to the porous nature of the cement blocks. It is the extremely flat nature of the UPW #1050 and its near 180 degree viewing cone that make this possible.

Rough Substrate Trials:

Click images to enlarge.

I only recommend a truly flat latex when creating a screen using a less than ideal rough substrate.

Behr PREMIUM PLUS® Interior Flat Enamel Ultra Pure White (UPW) #1850

This is a matte paint with a low luster sheen that gives a brighter image and a more durable surface than the UPW #1050. This would make a good one can screen paint. It is a little more expensive than the UPW #1050. It can also form the base layer for a clear coat solution. Here is a comparison between the UPW #1050 and the #1850:

| . 1850 . < > . 1050 . |



So if you think you will not be clear coating the matte gray base then this is a good choice for a one-can off-the-shelf DIY screen paint.
Behr Premium Plus Ultra™ Exterior Flat Ultra Pure White (UPW) #4850

This is a new product just introduced by Behr in 2007. It is an extremely durable exterior paint. It can be tinted using the same custom formulas as the other UPW products. It is self priming, rolls on very smooth and and levels out very well. It has a low luster sheen similar to the flat enamel #1850. I wish this product had been available when I painted my retractable screen. As you can see in the comparison photos bellow it has more gain than the UPW #1050.

| . 4850 . < > . 1050 . |



The Ultra #4850 provides a brighter image compared to a flat latex, it is self priming and it levels out very very well, making it my choice as an excellent one-can off-the-shelf DIY screen paint.


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post #4 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Substrates & Primer

I am no expert in wall preparation but luckily wbasset has provided a very good thread to deal with that subject. I have been using 1/8” thick hardboard with a white coating on one side to make 2’x4’ sample panels. For smaller screens, under 90” diag., this material may work well with a supporting frame.

MDF is a mainstay of painted screen applications. It comes in larger sizes up to 5’x12’. It is also available in various thicknesses. It is a very smooth flat rigid material, ideal to use as a screen substrate. It is very stable but I recommend painting both sides to seal the material. It is easily damaged by water. It should also be noted that like all particle based sheet lumber materials, it is made using urea formaldehyde glue. This will off gas and may be harmful or at least irritating to those with allergies.

I recommend priming the substrate using a low nap (3/16”) roller. This provides a good opportunity to practice your screen painting technique and will also give a better indication of the smoothness and uniformity of the underlying substrate. Starting with a good white base is always the best place to start to produce the desired color of top coat.

There is another advantage to priming the substrate first. It actually will provide an opportunity for you to try projecting onto a matte white screen surface. This can be very helpful in determining the shade of gray or white that will do best to satisfy your needs and expectations.


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post #5 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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ICI Paint Color Data

As given:




Recalculated RGB Values:




There is some discrepancy in these numbers. The technical representative from ICI Paints is looking into it. In the meantime these values may not agree exactly but the XYZ and CIE L*ab values are obviously not that different since they result in almost the exact same RGB values. Any variance in these numbers is extremely small compared to what can be expected from batch to batch or between applications over different base coats.

The attached file "ICI_Paints_NeutralGrayData.xls.doc" is actually a copy of the Excel spreadsheet I used to organize the recalculated RGB values.

 

ICI_Paints_NeutralGrayData.xls.doc 49k . file
LL
LL


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post #6 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #9 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #11 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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post #14 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Basic Roller Painting Instructions

Co-authored by KristiSwallow

Choosing A Roller

The best roller for applying flat latex paint as a projection screen surface is a 3/16" nap white synthetic roller. A 1/4" nap roller is also acceptable but will produce a slightly heavier roller texture.



This type of roller will hold the right amount of paint to cover one vertical strip on a 120" 16:9 screen. You can get these rollers in 9" and 7" widths. I personally prefer the 7" width because it is a but lighter and easier to control the pressure applied across the length of the roller.


Application Pressure

It is important to let the roller and paint do the work. It is not necessary to apply enough pressure to squeese the paint out of the roller. Only apply enough pressure make the roller roll. If the roller handle is not free spinning and requires excessive pressure to get it to roll then clean it or replace it. Roll at a nice steady pace that does not fling paint drops at you. Too much pressure will lead to roller tracks in your screen surface. Pressing too hard is probably the most common mistake made when roller painting.


Maintaining A Wet Line

This is a very important concept for wall painting as well as screen painting. The paint is applied in vertical strips from top to bottom. Then the gap is blended into the previously applied strip. This method ensures that you are not inadvertantly dry rolling paint that has been on the wall long enough to start drying. You always want to apply paint next to paint that is still wet.


Keep It Thin

When painting a screen surface it is important to get good coverage but not to apply too much paint. Too much paint will lead to a lumpy finish, roller tracks, and may also result in runs.


Let It Dry

Be sure to let each coat dry completely. For common latex wall paints that means about three hours. If you start rolling the next coat too soon the first coat can get lifted off in clumps and ruin the smooth screen surface we are striving for. If you are applying a polyurethane top coat the I recommend leting the latex base coat dry for at least 12 hours.

Flat Paint Rolling Tips

Flat wall paint is very forgiving. Wall blemishes will not be visible in the projected image. It is still advisable to prepare the wall properly and employ painting techniques to produce the most uniform surface possible.

  1. Load the 3/16" nap synthetic roller with paint.


  2. Apply the paint in vertical strips. Start at the center of the vertical strip and roll up and down with longer and longer strokes until you are rolling from top to bottom of the screen.


  3. Apply each strip adjacent to the previous one. Leave only a 1/4" to 1/2" gap between the strips.


  4. Once the current strip of paint has been applied by spreading it from top to bottom, do not stop the roller on the screen surface. Roll completely off onto the masking tape. If you change roller direction on the screen during the following smoothing and blending strokes, it will leave a texture that is different from the rest of the screen. That discontinuity in the roller texture will be visible in the image.

  5. Now you will blend the current strip into the previous strip. This is done by continuing to roll up and down while moving sideways across the gap. It should take about 6 up and down strokes to work your way across the gap. Once the roller is completely across the gap then continue rolling up and down but work your way back across the gap. Again this should take about 6 strokes. At this point the current strip and the previous one should be indistinguishable. Stop rolling now and load up for the next strip.


The procedure is repeated until you get to the other side of the screen. Since the last strip will not be blended into a subsequent strip you can put a few more smoothing strokes on it if need be.


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post #15 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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post #19 of 235 Old 08-27-2007, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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post #20 of 235 Old 08-28-2007, 09:27 PM
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Do you just add the pearl into the poly or is it a seperate coat. Also, have you tried this on BOC? I haven't seen any posts of that combo. thanks
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post #21 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I no longer subscribe to the use of pearl clear coats.


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post #22 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 09:50 AM
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Hi Tiddler,

Since you've been posting here again, you've got my engineering juices flowing. I'm now wondering if my FnE#11's whites are a little too "dirty". I've already applied 2 coats of just the poly. What do you think would happen if I applied two more poly coats with the pearl mixed in? Would I gain some overall brightness? Would my blacks remain the same? I would like to keep it as a "quick fix" rather than starting over from scratch because of the extra time and money.

-Travis
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post #23 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.


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post #24 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 07:13 PM
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Tiddler,
I am chomping at the bit... just put up a Panasonic AX-100, and spent way too much time installing a screen that was almost instantly too small. Decided to paint the wall instead. SILVER has promise, but I thought I would start with the EasyFlex solution, as it appears truly easier (as well as promises true color).

I see you are still working on the post, but can you give a hint as to what the final recommendation is? From what I can gather so far (and as part of the Fneasy threads):
1/ 2 coats matte primer
2/ 2-3 coats flat/matte gray of your choice within the Fneasy tint guidelines
3/ ??? xx coats of "one quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780 and one 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium"

Is that it? Simple?

I gather the Flex in easy flex may also have more than the "flex" in the gray. I have read discussion and your input into mixing the Pearl/Poly/with the base paint, also Silver Metallic or Pearl... is there going to be any mention of including this in the "flex" as well?

Thanks for all of your help. You are truly an appreciated asset to all of the DIYers out there...
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post #25 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irwinben View Post

. . . .
1/ 2 coats matte primer
2/ 2-3 coats flat/matte gray of your choice within the Fneasy tint guidelines
3/ ??? xx coats of "one quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780 and one 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium"

Is that it? Simple?

I gather the Flex in easy flex may also have more than the "flex" in the gray. I have read discussion and your input into mixing the Pearl/Poly/with the base paint, also Silver Metallic or Pearl... is there going to be any mention of including this in the "flex" as well?

I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.


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post #26 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 08:27 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. I have high hopes for EasyFlex; my "she who must be obeyed" does not want a compressor and paint sprayer making a mess in the basement. I thought it was my lair...
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post #27 of 235 Old 08-29-2007, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irwinben View Post

Thanks for the clarification. I have high hopes for EasyFlex; my "she who must be obeyed" does not want a compressor and paint sprayer making a mess in the basement. I thought it was my lair...

The Wagner Control Spray needs no compressor and from all accounts does not generate a great deal of over spray. Any painted solution can benefit from the use of spray painting. I'm certainly not against it.


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post #28 of 235 Old 08-30-2007, 05:01 AM
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Tiddler,

I've read in the other forums that you've noticed a "higher gain on the edges of the screen with the pearl coat." Could you ellaborate on this a little bit more? I'd like to brighten my FnE11 up a little bit, but I don't want a "reverse hot spotting" as a result.

Yesterday you said that "it will cause the whites to be much brighter and will lighten the blacks a bit". Does this mean that it would be equivelent to an FnE8 or 9? Or is it more complicated than that?

Thanks, and keep up the great work.
-Travis
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post #29 of 235 Old 08-30-2007, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.


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post #30 of 235 Old 08-30-2007, 09:47 AM
 
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If you'd like a brighter screen with no viewing cone issues go with a lighter gray. Todd has stated many times that the pearl topcoats are more for the lower lumen crowd - like the DIY pjs at LumenLab. This is something that would never consider for a new pj. To me it makes absolutely no sense to do this if you have a decent pj. It adds to the complexity of the whole process with very little to gain when you can simply go to a Munsell N9 shade.

Look at it this way, it makes a dark gray lighter and adds viewing cone issues. If you go with a lighter gray you get no viewing cone issues and you get a brighter picture.

mech
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