HDTV Screen – High Quality and Very Low Cost - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 1284 Old 01-31-2002, 11:00 AM
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Pocatello,

Cool, a contact near me. Awesome. I will look today or tomorrow here in IF. I'm assuming .060" is what I am to look for?

I'm new to this, just starting out. I'm still waiting on my projector to show up. *grin*

Thanx,

Dave

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post #302 of 1284 Old 01-31-2002, 11:09 AM
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yes, .060 is the right stuff from Parkland. I understand it goes by some different names. But they do carry one Parkland product at HD here in Poky, so all is not lost. The .090 stuff would not make a great screen, I am told, but it is still pretty cheap.

Do you have a projector yet?

Pocatello
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post #303 of 1284 Old 01-31-2002, 11:18 AM
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Not yet. It is on the way. Either this week or next! HOPEFULLY!

I bought it from a guy at ebay. It is Electrohome ECP 3100 (CRT).

What do you have?

Also, do you know of any service techs around here, just in case. All there is here in IF is a couple of "Maybe's". I'll let you know who they are if you want.

Use this email addy for me and feel free: silicon@ida.net

Nice to meet you!

Dave

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post #304 of 1284 Old 01-31-2002, 11:33 AM
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Pocatello,

Thought I should add. I do have a 53" projection tv, HDTV (4:3 with 16:9 formatting).

I noticed, you're "In search of the perfect HTPC". I have my PC hooked into my big screen. I am very knowledgable on PC's, hardware, builds and configurations.

Dave

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post #305 of 1284 Old 01-31-2002, 11:37 AM
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Cool. Let me know how you like your ECP 3100.

I sent you an email at your address.

Pocatello
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post #306 of 1284 Old 02-01-2002, 03:00 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by siliconrave
Cool, a contact near me. Awesome. I will look today or tomorrow here in IF. I'm assuming .060" is what I am to look for?

I'm new to this, just starting out. I'm still waiting on my projector to show up. *grin*

It looks like the 'Idaho Projector Mafia' is starting to show up here. If you guys find that stuff please let me know (I am in Idaho Falls too). I don't have a projector yet so I have not looked for it.
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post #307 of 1284 Old 02-01-2002, 03:24 PM
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Hey Adam!

Welcome to the site! I usually hang out in the Front Projector Forum. Send me a private email.

Pocatello
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post #308 of 1284 Old 02-02-2002, 07:58 AM
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After one false attempt, I finally got a clean piece of Parkland Plastic, using the Do-It-Yourself Hardware ordering system mentioned earlier in this thread. Cost me about $18. A little more than if I could've bought a sheet at Lowe's, but not too bad.

Before the sheet came, I had built a frame out of window trim moulding, painted black. When I mounted the plastic, it became quite clear my corners were pretty approximate. Or as my wife put it: "That's more a parallelogram than a rectangle."

I mounted the plastic using upholstery tacks on the sides, cut the plastic to size with ordinary kitchen shears, and fixed the top and bottom edges with duct tape. The plastic isn't mounted on any stabilizer ... I considered 1/8" fiberboard, but I thought it's be too heavy. The frame is hung on the wall by three brass colored "ring plates." Basically metal loops screwed into the back of the frame. Another choice would've been "D-ring" fasteners, but the ones I could find were too big. This is hung on three nails driven into studs in the drywall. Drywall anchors would have worked fine, too.

Now that the scewed frame is up, I used masks to make the edges true. My wife hot glued black felt to pieces of Celotex foam insulation (1/2" thick, very light) to make top/bottom and side masks. I stuck Velcro in various places on the frame, and a couple of white pieces on the wall itself. Since I used a plumb-bob to position the Velcro, the masks make nice 90 degree angles. Moving the pieces leaves me with 4:3, 1.8:1, and 2.3:1 screens with very little hassle, and always an 8" border around the image to absorb the light halo from my Piano.

I considered velvet as the fabric: definitely blacker than the felt, but majorly more expensive, and my wife says it would have been heavier and harder to work with on the foam board.

Though I'm tempted by the Duvetyne at www.stagefabrics.com. Has anyone seen this stuff? How does it compare to the other fabrics listed at this page (Veelon, Velour)?

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Bob T.
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post #309 of 1284 Old 02-02-2002, 01:38 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by KenLim
hello, all!
I'm about to take the plunge and get some Polywall 4X8 at my local Home Depot.
I've already checked it out....problem is that every piece I checked had many small dimples 3-7 mm across and probably 1 mm deep on the back side. from re-reading all the posts it looks like people have used both the front [slightly textured, shinier] and back [matte, smooth] sides of this material. Which side works better? If the back/matte side is preferred, do U all have dimples in it? do they distract from the PQ/viewing? Should I try to find a smoother piece?

Okay, I thought that perhaps I had failed to notice any dimples/depressions on my sheet of Poly-Wall, so I decided to check out the material again. I drive past a Home Depot on my way home, so I stopped and checked two sheets of it. Then today, I stopped by a Menards to pick up a few things, and checked out three more sheets there.

I closely examined both sides of all five sheets. I angled it to catch the light to search for imperfections. I ran my hands over it. The grand total number of dimples or depressions or bumps on all five sheets combined was 0 (as in zero, zip, nada, none).

Each of the five was identical, with one slightly textured side that yields a very nice matte white finish that shows almost no glare (a very flat white appearance), and one smooth side that is shinier that did show glare from lights - sort of a semi-gloss appearance. The label is always on the smooth side (all labels stated that the sheets were ParkLand Plastics Plas-Tex Poly Wall, .060" thick, in the color of Bright White). This side was designed to be the "glue side" and I saw some hot-spotting on it with a bright projector.

The Menards store had installation instructions on a tear-off page. Obviously these are written for installing the Poly-Wall as an interior wall panel. But some of it may be relevant for screen mounting. Here's some of what they say:

"The front side is embossed to enhance durability. The smooth back side is treated to accept waterbased adhesives.

After installation panels may be cleaned with non-abrasive all purpose cleaners or soaps. For difficult stains such as felt marker and graphite, use Mineral Spirits or Acetone sparingly. ParkLand back labels can be soaked off with penetrating oil such as WD-40.

Plas-Tex panels MUST be stored flat on a smooth, dry surface.

Plas-Tex panels expand and contract with temperature changes. ... Do not use in structures subjected to extreme temperature changes...

Plas-Tex color matched PVC moldings are available (shows picture of a "clip"-type molding where the Plas-Tex slides in)

(states that panels should not be glued to waterproof surfaces)

Plas-Tex panels should be installed with a quality trowel grade non-flammable or latex adhesive listed in the chart below. Adhesive coverage is about 1/2 gallon per 4x8 panel. ... To insure adequate open time, spread the adhesive on the panel, not the wall. Leave only ridges of adhesive.

Recommended Adhesives: Henry #444 FRP, Liquid Nails FRP #310 Latex, DAP Weldwood multi-purpose Flooring Adhesive, Franklin Titeboard Fast Grab FRP, OSI Sealants Pro Series FRP-555, TACC/Miracle FRP Adhesive.

Not Recommended: All Solvent-based & All tube-style adhesives."

I suspect the installation procedure for using the panels as a screen would be less demanding. Typical installation is intended for panels used in wet or high humidity environments (laundry rooms) for several years of usage with regular cleaning.

Tom
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post #310 of 1284 Old 02-02-2002, 02:02 PM
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While I was checking out the Poly-Wall sheets at Home Depot and Menards, I took a look at other materials that might serve as a screen. The only possible candidate I found was a wall panel from a company named "AFCO".

It was a vinyl panel, about 1/8" thick, named AFCO Impressions #505. It's on their web page at: http://www.afco-ind.net/decor.html . Cost was $13.88 per 4'x8'.

The finish was textured and was fairly flat when viewed straight-on. But there was some reflections from bright lights viewed from an angle. So it was more of a semi-gloss finish and might be susceptible to hot-spotting. Still it looked like it might work, I'd like to see someone try it.

Tom
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post #311 of 1284 Old 02-02-2002, 03:49 PM
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Hi everyone!

In a hurry so don't have time to read all 16 pages of posts to see if someone has already contributed this information.

The SKU# for Home Depot (for the Poly-Wall) is 179-646, sure makes calling around different stores to find it a whole lot easier.

If you are in Denver, the only store that has it in stock is at Sheridan and 285. BTW, here in Denver it's $19.98/sheet!

Also built my screen using a very smooth piece of plywood, and attached the Poly-Wall using 3/4 " thumbtacks (about 1 every 6 inches around the outside edge). An entire pack of these is $1. To keep the material from sagging, sprayed the wood with 3M spray adhesive (from the HD paint dept), and then placed the plastic on that. Rolled it securely to the plywood with a rolling pin (believe it or not), and ended up with a perfectly flat screen. Mounted it to the wall using 6 screws. Used 12 inch black velvet strips around the outside (attached with 2-way carpet tape). Looks great, very professional if I do say so myself!

My VP-12S1 arrives on Thursday 2/7, will post results then.
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post #312 of 1284 Old 02-03-2002, 07:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jetlag
The SKU# for Home Depot (for the Poly-Wall) is 179-646, sure makes calling around different stores to find it a whole lot easier.

Thanks a bunch! This will definitely help.
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post #313 of 1284 Old 02-03-2002, 08:03 PM
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What "Color" is it? Aside from gain, the color of white (how blue is it, how red, how green) will affect your picture. One of the reasons for paying a premium for a Draper or Stewart Screen is because they've done the engineering for you. I'm not too familiar with how much correction you get with your chosen fixed pixel display, but if you know an ISF calibrator, you might want to get a sample first and ask him to "shoot" it and give you some advice on its applicability for your situation.

Of course then, it won't be as inexpensive

Fred Manteghian

Oh my God! What if THIS is just a reality show?
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post #314 of 1284 Old 02-04-2002, 10:54 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by HT Bob84

Now that the scewed frame is up, I used masks to make the edges true. My wife hot glued black felt to pieces of Celotex foam insulation (1/2" thick, very light) to make top/bottom and side masks. I stuck Velcro in various places on the frame, and a couple of white pieces on the wall itself. Since I used a plumb-bob to position the Velcro, the masks make nice 90 degree angles. Moving the pieces leaves me with 4:3, 1.8:1, and 2.3:1 screens with very little hassle, and always an 8" border around the image to absorb the light halo from my Piano.


Bob T.

Bob:

Could you post some pictures of the finished product with the masking panels in place?

-J. R.
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post #315 of 1284 Old 02-04-2002, 08:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Fred Manteghian
What "Color" is it? Aside from gain, the color of white (how blue is it, how red, how green) will affect your picture.

That's an excellent question. Hadn't thought of this before.

The Poly-Wall is described by ParkLand as being "Bright White" in color. I took a number of different brightness sheets of paper, held them up against the matte white surface and compared them under a 100 watt-equivalent fluorescent lamp. I have a lot of different types of printer paper.

I started with very bright "94" brightness paper. It was definitely brighter and whiter than the Poly-Wall. Next was paper rated at "90" brightness, it was also noticably brighter & whiter. When I got down to a cheap "80" brightness, it was a very close match.

As compared to the very bright, bleached "94" whiteness paper, the Poly-Wall looks a touch warmer, just a very slight off-white, a very, very light cream. But much whiter and brighter than newspaper stock.

My take is that it is very close to a "normal," "everyday" kinda white. Not as bright as extremely white surfaces, but about the same as several other "white" objects. As I typed this I looked around the room and saw some "Puffs" white tissues. So I took three tissues stacked (one sheet is too thin and the background shows through) and held them up against the screen and it was a very close match, with the screen appearing just a bit whiter. So I don't think there would be much colorshift but perhaps it isn't as pure a white as a classic matte white screen from Da-Lite or Draper.

Tom
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post #316 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 10:28 AM
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Quote:


Bob:

Could you post some pictures of the finished product with the masking panels in place?

-J. R.

I don't want to abuse the forum, so here's a single shot of the screen in 16 x 9 mode. The down spotlights were replaced to give enough light for the digital camera.
LL
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post #317 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 11:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil

So I don't think there would be much colorshift but perhaps it isn't as pure a white as a classic matte white screen from Da-Lite or Draper.

A followup. I was able to hold up a piece of a sheet of Poly-Wall against a Da-Lite matte white screen. They were very close in color and brightness, with the Da-Lite being just a touch brighter and whiter. If I had looked at them in different rooms, I might not have been able to distinguish between them. But side by side, there is a slight difference.

The difference is so slight that I'm not going to worry about it, given the price differential.

Tom
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post #318 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 01:17 PM
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I received a 10' strip of poly-wall direct from Parkland 2 weeks ago. It has been lying flat since then, and the waves just won't go away. So I called them today to see what they would do, and they are shipping me out a new piece for free today. It seems that they are aware of a QC problem from their original batch of oversize sheets, and are doing the right thing by their customers. This time, I am getting a 4 x 8 because neither my projector (piano) nor my room can support the larger size.
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post #319 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 01:42 PM
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Has anyone tried this material w/ a PLV60/HD13?
I'm currently shooting on a beige wall, and believe
it or not, its not bad. Just wondering if this is going
to make my not so bad looking blacks look grey
(which I imagine it would).

Thanks in advance,

Aceman
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post #320 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 08:46 PM
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My two cents worth.
I have been using a Joann's Blackout fabric screen with my
7inch crt pj for several months. Been also watching and reading
this thread. Finally found the 4X8 model about 45 miles from me
at Home Depot for 19.95. (expensive out here in the west)

I attached it to my orginal screen so I could still see a good
portion of the Blackout material.

Bottom line. No difference. They are both fantastic screen
materials. But I didnt see the slight gain others have talked about.
Blacks about the same as well. And if you add the fact that
the fabric comes in 54inch width and is much easier to hang.
(no bulges), I think it's still the best for homemade screens.

But I had to try.
Wingryder
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post #321 of 1284 Old 02-05-2002, 08:53 PM
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hey Wingryder...

anything special about the blackout fabric?

I assume you went to Joann's Fabrics or whatever that chain of stores is called. My wife goes there frequently.

I can't get the Parkland in my local stores... and that might be just what I need.

Any part numbers or anything?

Thanks.

Pocatello
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post #322 of 1284 Old 02-06-2002, 10:58 AM
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Anyone in the Pittsburgh, PA area have any luck finding this product? I called both Lowe's and Home Depot, with no luck
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post #323 of 1284 Old 02-06-2002, 05:17 PM
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Just go to JoAnn's Fabrics and ask for blackout fabric.
It is used to make curtains to "blackout" a room for day sleeping
or whatever.
It is very white, 54 inches wide, or at least will stretch to that
easily. And it has a slight rubber feel to it.
If I remember it was 5.99 a yard.

Good Stuff.
wingryder
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post #324 of 1284 Old 02-06-2002, 07:15 PM
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I've done my DIY Parkland screen!

Many thanks to Ron Geyer and Bill Wilkins for their suggestions on the type of adhensive as well as tools. (See page 15 of this thread.)

However, after I've done it, I have further suggestions for anyone who wants to give it a try:

If you want to glue the Parkland to the surface of a large piece of plywood (mine is 4' x 6'), read very carefully Parkland's own instructions. You can find the instructions on-line at:
http://www.parklandplastics.com/instructions.htm
They recommend a few brands of adhensive. I highly recommend that you consider one of those adhensives. I actually used one recommended by Parkland: "Liquid Nails FRP 310." It is available from Home Depot (about $11.00 for 1 gallon). One very nice thing about this adhensive is that it gives you 45 minutes working time. So, you have plenty of time to apply the adhensive to the surface of the plywood. Also, if the position is off when you put the sheet down, you can still lift it up and reposition.

One thing that I did deviate from Parkland's instructions was that I applied the adhensive to the plywood, rather than the sheet, because it's easier. The result seems to be just fine.

The "FRP 310" requires a notch-toothed adhensive spreader. The label on the "FRP 310" recommends some size of notch tooth. I couldn't find a spreader of the recommended size at Home Depot. So I used something smaller. The one I got was 1/8" - 3/32" - 1/8" U-shape, about $2.50 at HD. Don't use bigger toothed ones. Too much adhensive and you won't get flat surface.

It is also important to use a laminate roller (also from Home Depot) to roll out the sheet and to smooth out bumps. Use your hands to feel the bumps over the entire sheet. You may not be able to see the bumps.

I ordered 2 sheets of 5x8 Parkland sheets. I thought I would do some experiments on the 2nd sheet. But the first sheet worked out fine. So, I am offering the second sheet to anyone willing to pick it up locally. I still have some "FRP 310" left over (a little less than 1/2 can). I can give you that also, so that you can try it out. I live in the Princeton, NJ area. If you are interested, please contact me by PM.

Charles
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post #325 of 1284 Old 02-06-2002, 08:27 PM
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My apologies to Ron and others on this thread.
Earlier I stated.. I thought Polywall and Blackout Cloth was about
a push. Wrong. I tested with the wrong side.
When you look at this Parkland stuff.. one side screams
"theatre screen" and the other says .. glue here.
Wrong Wrong Wrong.
I clamped the plastic to my Blackout screen frame leaving about
a third of the blackout showing.
This time I used the non-impressive.. label side .
IT IS BRIGHTER. It's great. If you assign 1.0 to Blackout
This is 1.2 or even 1.3...
The nice textured side... (looks like it was made for a theatre
screen.. is the BACK. (might not be the case for all pjs.)
No hotspots.. or other problems..

Died in the wool Blackout guy going to Parkland.


Wingryder
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post #326 of 1284 Old 02-07-2002, 12:07 PM
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Hi There,

I have two questions.
1- How do you hang the screen?
2- What is better for a frame backing?
plywood, medium density particle board, celotex

I just ordered my screen material yesterday.
They said it will ship tomorrow.

My idea is a backing, screen and then wood frame.
1 - Should I drill holes in the backing and attach wires
to hang the frame from?
2 - Should I just screw in some hooks on the top of the
backing and then use a wire from the hooks.

I think idea 1 is stronger than idea 2 but not a pleasing to look at.

Any other suggestion.

Thanks,
Carlton.
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post #327 of 1284 Old 02-07-2002, 12:53 PM
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That's interesting that the glue side worked for you. It didn't for me, it had hot spots. But I was using a 1600 lumen projector and only an 80" diagonal screen. So it is certainly quite possible that if one were using say a 1000 lumen projector and a 100" screen, that it would work fine.

The glue side is more reflective. It isn't a perfectly "flat" screen(using "flat" in the sense of a flat paint), as it shows some glare when you hit it with a bright light at an angle. But it also isn't a
high gloss, polished surface.

In my setup, there is no need for more gain and I liked the more even image off of the textured side. But maybe if I had a Plus Piano with 450 lumens, I would have liked the glue/smooth side better. Can't say without seeing it. But it sounds like people should try both and go with the one they like best.

Tom
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post #328 of 1284 Old 02-08-2002, 07:10 AM
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My first sheet of Parkland plastic (5' x 10'), shipped from the factory, was defective. Wavy. I called them and described the problem. They shipped out a new piece (no charge, not even for shipping), which arrived yesterday. Result: Very flat. No waves. High quality.

In between the two sheets, I realized that I did not need an over sized piece, so I asked for the 4' x 8' sheet. But I don't think that is the issue. I think that they shipped the large sheet too quickly, before the plastic had cured. The freezing temperatures encountered during shipping caused it to cure in a non-uniform way, causing the wave pattern. Just speculation on my part.

Parkland has also improved its shipping techniques. The new piece was not rolled so tight, and there was no tape on it for me to struggle to remove.

All in all, a great step forward. My next step is to apply Ken's goo and put it up. I will also use the defective sheet, without goo, to do an A-B comparison to see whether and how much Ken's goo improves the Parkland results. (I will glue the defective piece flat before doing the comparison.) I will post my impression of the results when I'm done.
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post #329 of 1284 Old 02-08-2002, 04:42 PM
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Tom Carey--- thanks for your post.

I'm happy to hear about how good Parkland customer service is. I'm especially happy to hear that the new sheet they sent you will stay flat after you unroll it.

Please post your opinions as to Ken's Goo versus the Parkland.

Thanks again.

Pocatello
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post #330 of 1284 Old 02-08-2002, 06:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Tom Carey
My next step is to apply Ken's goo and put it up. I will also use the defective sheet, without goo, to do an A-B comparison to see whether and how much Ken's goo improves the Parkland results. (I will glue the defective piece flat before doing the comparison.) I will post my impression of the results when I'm done.

That will be very interesting. Are you using a digital or CRT projector? Sorry if I miss that in the 17 pages of this thread.

Mike
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