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post #1 of 43 Old 11-15-2007, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The topic says it all. I have a Barco LC projector and want to paint the brightest white screen possible with a paint mix. Help needed!

Thanks

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post #2 of 43 Old 11-15-2007, 04:18 PM
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Behr UPW with 2oz. of pearlizing for gain is what I would use.

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post #3 of 43 Old 11-15-2007, 04:40 PM
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Although the brightness of the white can be a factor.............. white paint has 2 things that affect how much light is reflected back to your eyes.........High Pigment load(usually found in high quality and higher priced paint) without pigment not much light comes back, and the other is surface hardness..........the bright white paint I used was an eggshell hardness this surface has a vary slight sheen if viewed from an angle.
The hardness of a paint can give you hot spots if you use to hard of a surface and this hardness can vary between brands.

Most out hear use Behr pure white base, most white paints in this price range will have similar pigment loads........Pigment is the primary cost of the paint. I used top of the line Glidden.....I am used to how Glidden spreads/flows, so it was the best choice for me.

Hope this helps a little.
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post #4 of 43 Old 11-15-2007, 04:54 PM
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Behr UPW from Home Depot
check out my link below from a different thread

http://picasaweb.google.com/imuesmai...ey=1A6codKV4j0

DIY is really the way go---at least initially.

good luck.
gasdoc

at somepoint you stop the research and just buy it
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post #5 of 43 Old 11-16-2007, 01:03 PM
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Try either the flat or the satin enamel, if you want more gain, Behr Premium Plus Ultra Exterior paints:

http://www.behr.com/behrx/products/p...Paints&catId=7

mech tested a mix that contained alot of this paint in it. It has a very flat spectral response. It goes on very nicely. It is self priming, so 2 coats over most other paints is all you need. And you don't have to worry about it yellowing or fading since it is an outdoor paint. Good luck with your decision!

Meow.
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post #6 of 43 Old 11-16-2007, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the reply's. Behr Premium Plus Ultra Exterior paints what do you think the gain would be? Sounds like a good choice I wonder if I could add the
2oz. of pearlizing to add even more gain.

I am painting a 133' screen.

Thanks greg

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post #7 of 43 Old 11-16-2007, 06:55 PM
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The Satin Enamel would be in the 1.3-1.5 area. Just a guesstimate based on the screen samples I have. The flat would be very close to 1-1.1. Although a very nice screen. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the extra pearl. All of that TiO2 would knock down any benefits of the pearl. Although that would raise the sheen of the mix, and thus gain.

Meow.
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post #8 of 43 Old 11-17-2007, 04:08 AM
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I have had pretty good results using the white basecoat of screen goo.It has very good brightness.In a side by side with ultra white its clear the basecoat is brighter.

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post #9 of 43 Old 11-17-2007, 05:19 AM
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I am painting a 133' screen.

Thanks greg[/quote]


HOLY COW BATMAN.....A 133' screen

tony4k
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post #10 of 43 Old 11-17-2007, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbase1 View Post

I am painting a 133' screen.

Thanks greg


HOLY COW BATMAN.....A 133' screen[/quote]

With a screen that large you should think about keeping the hardness on the paint above a flat.....more gain........someone out hear(maybe tiddler) not sure........ also did some clear coats over flat for a little more gain.

You are heading in the right direction good luck
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post #11 of 43 Old 11-17-2007, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought all the supplies to paint a new screen. I might be able to do a 12 footer but looks like I will need to settle for around 11 foot wide I ran out of throw distance. Looking forward to the front row

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post #12 of 43 Old 11-18-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benven View Post

The Satin Enamel would be in the 1.3-1.5 area. Just a guesstimate based on the screen samples I have. The flat would be very close to 1-1.1. Although a very nice screen. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with the extra pearl. All of that TiO2 would knock down any benefits of the pearl. Although that would raise the sheen of the mix, and thus gain.

Based on the Behr Sheen experiments I would not use anything with more sheen than the Behr Flat-Enamel. Even the Eggshell started to show serous signs of hot spotting.

If you are going to have a very smooth screen substrate then you could boost the gain with a Pearlizing Clear Coat. Several of the folks at Lumenlab have tried this over a white base with good results. In your case painting over a white base the Folkart Metallic White Pearl would work well too. Here is a comparison of UPW | UPW+Poly and a Pearlizing Clear Coat over Behr UPW:



Cynical2 has also tried it over a gray base with good results despite some application difficulties. Maybe Cynical2 would comment on that (good or bad).
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post #13 of 43 Old 11-18-2007, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post

I bought all the supplies to paint a new screen. I might be able to do a 12 footer but looks like I will need to settle for around 11 foot wide I ran out of throw distance. Looking forward to the front row

What supplies did you buy?
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post #14 of 43 Old 11-18-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Cynical2 has also tried it over a gray base with good results despite some application difficulties. Maybe Cynical2 would comment on that (good or bad).

Since my name was brought up as an example of someone whose used the Folkart Pearlizing Medium topcoat, I feel obliged to respond.

Some background: For my first DIY screen, I used an EF-04 base with 1 coat of 1x pearl topcoat. Of course, that is 1/4 the amount of pearl topcoat that one would get with 2 coats of 2x pearl. So, I was very conservative (vs most) with the topcoat application.

Initially, I had a red push with my image. That was after calibrating my Panny AX100U projector. I later went into the individual color settings and was able to adjust the push out, and I that point felt that the image looked good at that point...at least to my eye.

Recently, some testing has been conducted on the pearl topcoat. So, we now have more data than we did when I painted my screen. The test consisted of taking two very neutral off-the-shelf grey paints (Winter Mist and Winter Mountain) and taking color readings on them. Those paints were then coated with 1 coat of 1x pearl (again, being frugle with the amount of topcoat...this is 1/4 of what is often recommended), using the Folkart pearlizing medium.

The results show that the color shift is significant. Th effect was similar on both Winter Mountain and Winter Mist. For those interested in the data, I'll use the Winter Mountain data as an example:

Here's a look at Winter Mountain without a topcoat:



Here's a look at Winter Mountain with one coat of 1x pearl:



For those interested in RGB numbers (I'm not personally a big RGB fan, as they can be misleading), the resulting values for Winter Mountain with 1 coat of 1x pearl topcoat were:

R,G,B = 209, 201, 195

Obviously, one can see that a red push is introduced with the addition of the pearl topcoat. Whether this can be compensated for using one's projector's calibration ability is going to vary on a case-by-case basis. In my case, I believe I was able to (or, at a minimum, I at least made it much better).

In this recent testing, no testing was done on 2 coats of 1x pearl, 1 coat of 2x pearl, or 2 coats of 2x pearl...so I won't speculate on what effect even more of the topcoat will have.

I'm not going to disseminate any advice one way or the other (as I don't want to engage in an argument)...I'm responding with this data only because it was mentioned that I used the topcoat and I wanted for everyone to have the same data that I now have. People considering DIY screen solutions should be given a chance to make the most informed decision possible...hence, this post.

Good luck with your screens...whatever you may decide!


EDIT: See post below. The current recommendation, with Folkart Pearlizing Medium, is for 2 coats of 1x pearl, not 2 coats of 2x pearl. This is twice the amount of topcoat used on the test sample. So, the application that was tested is still conservative, but is not 1/4 of the topcoat used in the current recommendation (rather, it is 1/2).
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-18-2007, 10:37 PM
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Thanks for the feedback Cynical2!

There is obviously a lot of confusion regarding the pearl clear coats.

Here is the actual presentation of the variations of pearl clear coats:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post


1xPearl & 2xPearl Top Coats: FolkArt ® Metallics - Pearl White, #659
1xPearl Clear Coat: One 2oz. bottle of Folkart Metallic White Pearl added to one quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780. Typical application is two coats. Down rolling is advised.

2xPearl Clear Coat: Two 2oz. bottles of Folkart Metallic White Pearl added to one quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780. Typical application is two coats. Down rolling is necessary to avoid roller tracks and streaks.

[ . Poly . [ . 1xPearl . ][ . 2xPearl . ] . Poly . ]



Pearlizing Clear Coat: FolkArt ® - Pearlizing Medium, #487

One 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium added to one quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780. Typical application is two coats. Down rolling is necessary to avoid roller tracks and streaks.

[ . UPW 1050 | UPW\\Poly ][ . UPW\\Pearlizing . ]




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post #16 of 43 Old 11-18-2007, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynical2 View Post

Some background: For my first DIY screen, I used an EF-04 base with 1 coat of 1x pearl topcoat. Of course, that is 1/4 the amount of pearl topcoat that one would get with 2 coats of 2x pearl. So, I was very conservative (vs most) with the topcoat application.

I was under the impression that you used the Folkart Pearlizing Medium as described in the previous post. Mixed as one 2oz. bottle of the Folkart Pearlizing Medium in a quart of Behr Matte Polyurethane #780. That is the recommended "Pearlizing Clear Coat". The earlier pearl clear coat options were using the Folkart Metallic White Pearl. It has a lower pearl flake content and also contains some warm white pigment. It was suggested to mix one or two bottles of the Folkart Metallic White Pearl in a quart of Behr Polyurethane. One bottle being 1xPearl Clear Coat and two bottles being 2xPearl Clear Coat.

Now that the 1xPearl, 2xPearl, and Pearlizing clear coats have been properly described, could you please specify exactly what was used on your screen and what was subsequently used over the Winter Mountain gray base for the spectral reflectance testing?

With regard to the spectral reflectance curves: there is not enough information to draw any real conclusions from the two graphs. Too many variables and not enough control.

A rigorous investigation would require five samples to be prepared. Actually a truly rigorous investigation would require 10 samples. Five spray painted and 5 rolled. All the samples would need to be base coated at the same time using the same paint and application technique. Then you could make the following samples to investigate:
  1. just Winter Mountain with no clear coat
  2. one coat of Behr Polyurethane #780
  3. two coats of Behr Polyurethane #780
  4. one coat of the "Pearlizing Clear Coat"*
  5. two coats of the "Pearlizing Clear Coat"*
* One 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium #487 mixed in one quart of Behr Clear Matte Polyurethane #780.

Of course if you want to investigate the 1xPearl and 2xPearl clear coats that adds another 4 sample cards to be prepared.

It should go without saying that these samples must be prepared in a manner as close to how a screen would be painted as possible. Small samples painted by some other means would not be representative of the screen surface.

NOTE: I am not disputing the color shift your measurements show, but we don't really know why the color shift is occurring. I suspect it has more to do with the polyurethane than the pearlizing medium if that is what was actually used.
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-19-2007, 09:07 AM
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Correction added (in red) to my post above.
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post #18 of 43 Old 11-19-2007, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynical2 View Post

Correction added (in red) to my post above.

Is there a spectral reflectance curve for one coat of just the Behr Polyurethane #780 applied over a Winter Mountain base coat?

Did you prepare the sample of Winter Mountain with the Pearlizing Clear Coat?

If you did not prepare the sample tested then are you sure that Folkart Pearlizing Medium was used? It would not be the first time someone confused the pearlizing medium with the metallic white pearl or thought that Decoart Pearlizing Medium was the same thing.
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post #19 of 43 Old 11-20-2007, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought the high gloss enamal 9850 Behr and 3 sheets of drywall. I have done so many screens over the years with lots of failures I needed a new wall to start with. I just painted my first coat and the paint looks good. The image is is very natural with good depth and color. I am using a Barco 808 Graphics LC 8' crt in a total light controlled room with 159" screen

So now that I have the white part let's work on the brightest part of the screen.

I used poly before and thought the image was not as good but I also didn't use the pearlizing.. It could be me or I am so close to the screen 1 to 1 that the cloudyness of thE Poly bothered me. I only get one shot at this and I have 1/2 gallon of Behr to work with.

Has anyone tried just adding the pearlizer to the paint and if so did it work and how much with 1/2 gallon? Or is the poly the only way?

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post #20 of 43 Old 11-20-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post

I bought the high gloss enamal 9850 Behr and 3 sheets of drywall. I have done so many screens over the years with lots of failures I needed a new wall to start with. I just painted my first coat and the paint looks good. The image is is very natural with good depth and color. I am using a Barco 808 Graphics LC 8' crt in a total light controlled room with 159" screen

So now that I have the white part let's work on the brightest part of the screen.

I used poly before and thought the image was not as good but I also didn't use the pearlizing.. It could be me or I am so close to the screen 1 to 1 that the cloudyness of thE Poly bothered me. I only get one shot at this and I have 1/2 gallon of Behr to work with.

Has anyone tried just adding the pearlizer to the paint and if so did it work and how much with 1/2 gallon? Or is the poly the only way?

If you can use a high gloss enamel without hot spotting then forget about polyurethane and pearl. Those will not increase the gain anymore than a high gloss finish.
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post #21 of 43 Old 11-20-2007, 05:15 PM
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I am using a Barco 808 Graphics LC 8' crt in a total light controlled room with 159" screen
QUOTE]

HOLY COW BATMAN....8' CRT'S WITH OVER A 13' SCREEN!

tony4k
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post #22 of 43 Old 11-20-2007, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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quote: HOLY COW BATMAN....8' CRT'S WITH OVER A 13' SCREEN!

I sent Tbase1 screenshots and I am quite pleased with the paint selection. I bet an RS1 would look great with this paint as well.

And the great thing about this is I am not overdriving the crts.

Thanks for the reply and I will proceed with the second coat. I thought I should stop and ask for advice

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post #23 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 04:30 AM
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Excellent stuff Greg. Just to calrify the 9850 is the satin enamel, not semi gloss. So, hotspotting should be minimized. Wow a 13 footer. With a single CRT no less. Happy viewing!

Meow.
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post #24 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Is there a spectral reflectance curve for one coat of just the Behr Polyurethane #780 applied over a Winter Mountain base coat?

Did you prepare the sample of Winter Mountain with the Pearlizing Clear Coat?

If you did not prepare the sample tested then are you sure that Folkart Pearlizing Medium was used? It would not be the first time someone confused the pearlizing medium with the metallic white pearl or thought that Decoart Pearlizing Medium was the same thing.

I prepared the sample...1 coat of 1x pearl using Folkart Pearlizing Medium.

Not Decoart, and not Metallic White Pearl.
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post #25 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 08:07 AM
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Hey Greg was it the gloss or the satin enamal? I want a brighter screen mine is 137 inches with an hd1000u dlp, some sceens just look dark. I just painted the screen latex satin white while I was painting the ceiling.
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post #26 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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OOOPS
I used the satin enamal. If you are happy with the black levels then this is a good choice. The paint rolls on real smooth.
I took some screen shots but the camera does not do the image justice or more like the photographer.

I must admit that I have almost a perfect room for my setup otherwise I would need to do a crt stack.

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post #27 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 04:00 PM
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The only problem I see using the enamels is that they will inevitably yellow over time. Usually sooner than later.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #28 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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If nothing else I have a great base coat down I change screens like the 4 seasons of the year I really like this screen so the worst case is apply another application. How much time for it to turn colors? I have never heard this before.

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post #29 of 43 Old 11-21-2007, 06:43 PM
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actually.....the satin enamal is as bright as I would go with paint greg. I don't think you will have any problem with yellowing ,because your room is light control. The only problem you might have is a kid denting the dry wall ,but you can mud and paint in no time flat.

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post #30 of 43 Old 11-22-2007, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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That what I was thinking but I am more worried about my dog attacking the screen. Talk about crazy

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