New Sony SCD-XA5400ES supports DSD over HDMI! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 12:43 AM
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I find these emails from Oppo very confusing, does anyone agree ?

Let us be clear: none of our players will convert DSD straight to analog. All of our players require a DSD to PCM conversion before being converted to analog.

The DV-980H will pass DSD over HDMI only.

HDMI is a digital transmission only. HDMI does not contain any analogue audio signals. For DSD it is either ecode to PCM then transported digitally over HDMI, is transported over HDMI as a raw bitstream (DV-980H only), or converted from DSD to PCM then converted to multi-channel analog.

For the DV-980H, the player will either convert DSD to PCM and transport it digitally over HDMI, or it can send the raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI. End of emails:

So does raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI mean
DSD direct to Analog without PCM conversion ? If YES then why does Oppo create confusion by saying : none of our players will convert DSD straight to Analog. Sorry to bore all of you with this saga.
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post #272 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

I find these emails from Oppo very confusing, does anyone agree ?

Let us be clear: none of our players will convert DSD straight to analog. All of our players require a DSD to PCM conversion before being converted to analog.

The DV-980H will pass DSD over HDMI only.

HDMI is a digital transmission only. HDMI does not contain any analogue audio signals. For DSD it is either ecode to PCM then transported digitally over HDMI, is transported over HDMI as a raw bitstream (DV-980H only), or converted from DSD to PCM then converted to multi-channel analog.

For the DV-980H, the player will either convert DSD to PCM and transport it digitally over HDMI, or it can send the raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI. End of emails:

So does raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI mean
DSD direct to Analog without PCM conversion ? If YES then why does Oppo create confusion by saying : none of our players will convert DSD straight to Analog. Sorry to bore all of you with this saga.

I know your a "disbeliver" but top quality players like this sony here or my 9000es do not covert DSD to PCM to convert to analog mch. also there are quite a few devices that will natively output DSD these days (over hdmi). as there were a few years back woudl send over i-link.

the oppo like previous oppo's before it, is likely pretty poxy over analog anyways so not sure why something of such concern.

in any regard this is sony thread so not sure why the discussion on oppo. probably mroe relevant in the oppo thread

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post #273 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

Great

mine will be connected to a Denon AVP-A1

I plan on connecting via both XLR and HDMI

good move mark, the player will be a beauty I am sure.

do let us know how it goes connected up to the avp via both hdmi and balanced XLRs

and do post some pics looking forward in eagerness

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post #274 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

I find these emails from Oppo very confusing, does anyone agree ?

No, seems pretty clear to me. I'm surprised the tech is continuing to respond to you though.

Quote:
Let us be clear: none of our players will convert DSD straight to analog. All of our players require a DSD to PCM conversion before being converted to analog.

The DV-980H will pass DSD over HDMI only.

HDMI is a digital transmission only. HDMI does not contain any analogue audio signals. For DSD it is either ecode to PCM then transported digitally over HDMI, is transported over HDMI as a raw bitstream (DV-980H only), or converted from DSD to PCM then converted to multi-channel analog.

For the DV-980H, the player will either convert DSD to PCM and transport it digitally over HDMI, or it can send the raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI. End of emails:

So does raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI mean
DSD direct to Analog without PCM conversion ?

No. It means DSD signal to a receiver that can decode DSD via HDMI. What it does on analog output is a separate issue, as they tried to explain in great detail above.

Quote:
If YES then why does Oppo create confusion by saying : none of our players will convert DSD straight to Analog.

Because all of their players do a PCM conversion before analog output. Not the least bit confusing, as far as I can tell.
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post #275 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

I find these emails from Oppo very confusing, does anyone agree ?

Let us be clear: none of our players will convert DSD straight to analog. All of our players require a DSD to PCM conversion before being converted to analog.

The DV-980H will pass DSD over HDMI only.

HDMI is a digital transmission only. HDMI does not contain any analogue audio signals. For DSD it is either ecode to PCM then transported digitally over HDMI, is transported over HDMI as a raw bitstream (DV-980H only), or converted from DSD to PCM then converted to multi-channel analog.

For the DV-980H, the player will either convert DSD to PCM and transport it digitally over HDMI, or it can send the raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI. End of emails:

So does raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI mean
DSD direct to Analog without PCM conversion ? If YES then why does Oppo create confusion by saying : none of our players will convert DSD straight to Analog. Sorry to bore all of you with this saga.

There is no confusion to what you have been told by Oppo or by the members on this forum. It would appear that you do not understand the subject and/or the english language. Neither is a problem that can't be solved by due research but this is not the thread for this to continue in. Please take any further questions over to an OPPO thread. Good luck!
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post #276 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 04:58 AM
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On another note, I returned yesterday afternoon after being gone for three days due to a death in the family. I can't tell you how much I missed music during that time. Good music is my meditation and purifier that benefits all aspects of my life. When I got home and fired up the system I could feel my burdens lifting and my body relaxing for the first time in three days. I must tell you that the combination of the XA5400ES player, Accuphase E-550 int. amp, and Pioneer/TAD S-3EX speakers are a sublime trio that can perform some of the best therapy there is.
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post #277 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 06:43 AM
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I am now satisfied that the Oppo 980H sends DSD direct to Analogue via HDMI without conversion to PCM. So the question now is will the Sony XA5400ES also used as a transport HDMI out for multi-channel SACD sound any better. If not it seems a waste of money to buy the Sony only for its HDMI output performance.
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post #278 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

So does raw DSD signal to a compatible receiver with HDMI mean DSD direct to Analog without PCM conversion ?

Depends on the receiver, of course. Most will convert to PCM. Few will offer an option.

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post #279 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

I am now satisfied that the Oppo 980H sends DSD direct to Analogue via HDMI without conversion to PCM.

Of course, that statement makes little sense. What is converting the DSD directly to analog?

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post #280 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 02:57 PM
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LoL! He never really gets it.

DSD over HDMI is digital, not analog. What to do with it (DSD) is the job of your AVR. Only a few AVRs even accept DSD over HDMI. Among those that support DSD over HDMI, most of them will still convert DSD to PCM before converts to analog. Only a few will do DSD to analog direct conversion. Basically, you shifted the DSD conversion from player to AVR.
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post #281 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 03:05 PM
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let's get back to the Sony for a while please

got mine today

rack mounting: MA does not list this model, but the RSH-4A for Sony BDP-S5000ES works fine
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post #282 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

let's get back to the Sony for a while please

got mine today

rack mounting: MA does not list this model, but the RSH-4A for Sony BDP-S5000ES works fine

yes back to the sony !

good to hear mark, so how are you finding it with the denon avp ? do we get to see a pic

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post #283 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

let's get back to the sony for a while please

got mine today

rack mounting: Ma does not list this model, but the rsh-4a for sony bdp-s5000es works fine

pictures

My humble Cinema
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post #284 of 1102 Old 01-21-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Depends on the receiver, of course. Most will convert to PCM. Few will offer an option.

Kal,

Which receivers pre/pro will do direct DSD

I know Sony Sony STR-DA6400ES ES 7.1 will do



I don't know of any others? Has any one experience with Digital Craze

http://digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3396

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post #285 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 12:08 AM
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Pioneer Susano does DSD direct the Sony SCD-DA5400ES does not
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post #286 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Kal,

Which receivers pre/pro will do direct DSD

I know Sony Sony STR-DA6400ES ES 7.1 will do

I don't know of any others? Has any one experience with Digital Craze

http://digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3396

I believel the denon avp-a1hd will. never heard of digital craze !

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post #287 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 02:34 AM
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My Denon AVP-A1HD shows it is getting DSD from the Sony ES HDMI output (I have the Sony set to 2 ch)

I set the Denon to Pure Direct: I am very pleased

Sure is nice to do this with a single HDMI cable: I also have XLR cables to the Denon but have not tried that yet

Even though the Sony has a rear priority switch for 2 ch/ multichannel, you can override the setting from the remote or the front panel [it makes you stop the disc first]
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post #288 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


Has any one experience with Digital Craze

I bought another ES unit from them recently: seem OK

No showroom: mainly online sales but they let me pick up my unit from their warehouse
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post #289 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
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pictures

soon: right above the ES unit is a beta test unit under NDA: I need to get permission to display the picture
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post #290 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Kal,

Which receivers pre/pro will do direct DSD

I know Sony Sony STR-DA6400ES ES 7.1 will do



I don't know of any others? Has any one experience with Digital Craze

http://digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3396

Nope, but I have bought from http://unitedonlineshopping.com/sost71refcon.html before. They give same day shipping (not free) and very good service for the same price you are looking at. However, I have been very disappointed with the sound quality of Sony receivers in the past (last one I tried was the STR-DA7100ES) and would strongly suggest listening to the 6400 before buying it.

I tried to upload some pics but got a message saying a security token was missing and couldn't continue. If someone could give me a little advice on this I can get some photos of the inside and outside posted from when I replaced the fuses.
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post #291 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

LoL! He never really gets it.

DSD over HDMI is digital, not analog. What to do with it (DSD) is the job of your AVR. Only a few AVRs even accept DSD over HDMI. Among those that support DSD over HDMI, most of them will still convert DSD to PCM before converts to analog. Only a few will do DSD to analog direct conversion. Basically, you shifted the DSD conversion from player to AVR.

My Onkyo 706 accepts DSD via HDMI in Pure or Direct mode to analog without converting to PCM Disbeliever
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post #292 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Kal,

Which receivers pre/pro will do direct DSD

I know Sony Sony STR-DA6400ES ES 7.1 will do



I don't know of any others? Has any one experience with Digital Craze

http://digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3396

The Onkyo sr706 will do DSD over HDMI and report on avr displaying DSD..........
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post #293 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 12:17 PM
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Both Pioneer Elite 92 and 94 accepts DSD over HDMI. But only 94 can do DSD->analog directly. 92 will convert DSD to PCM first. It is documented in the manual.

Keep in mind though the downside of DSD direct to analog is that you will bypass all the processing in the AVR. Pretty much like 5.1 analog connection. No bass management, no room EQ.
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post #294 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

My Denon AVP-A1HD shows it is getting DSD from the Sony ES HDMI output (I have the Sony set to 2 ch)

I set the Denon to Pure Direct: I am very pleased

Sure is nice to do this with a single HDMI cable: I also have XLR cables to the Denon but have not tried that yet

Even though the Sony has a rear priority switch for 2 ch/ multichannel, you can override the setting from the remote or the front panel [it makes you stop the disc first]

Mark,
I know that you are under the nda for now but can you tell us if there is any sonic difference between players when using the hdmi audio for cd/sacd?
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post #295 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 04:12 PM
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some pics


RTI XP8 Remote Control Processor/ RTI T4 & T2C remotes
Denon AVP-A1HD
rack light
Zektor CVS4 5.1 analog switch
OPPO BDP-83 (with permission)
Sony SCD-XA5400ES
Sony BDP-S5000ES
Neo Pro Borrego component video switcher
Gefen 4x4 HDMI switcher
DVDO Edge
DirecTV HR21 Pros
Furman Reference Series Line Conditioner
Pioneer KURO 141
JM Labs speakers/ ML Descent sub

OK so the back of the rack is a mess...but everything works !
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #296 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

OK so the back of the rack is a mess...but everything works !

No doubt. The back of your rack looks more familiar to me than the front.

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post #297 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 05:36 PM
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Thanks for the pics.....Man those Sony's look really nice together, I'm so tempted to get myself an 5400.....Could be the last chance at a nice ES SACD player. But if/when I get the 5400 I know I'm going to be lusting for a 5000 for BR. Thats a sweet source component "short stack"!

05-1.3H BJC-3808-1.3H BJC-5080
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post #298 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 07:24 PM
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[quote=markrubin;15626609]some pics

Sony SCD-XA5400ES
Sony BDP-S5000ES



Mark,

Have you compared the 5400ES and 5000ES with respect to redbook CD (via the analogue outs)?
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post #299 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

some pics OK so the back of the rack is a mess...but everything works !

What a rats nest, Nice setup I thought HDMi was supposed to clean up everything Wireless will

My humble Cinema
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post #300 of 1102 Old 01-22-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Both Pioneer Elite 92 and 94 accepts DSD over HDMI. But only 94 can do DSD->analog directly. 92 will convert DSD to PCM first. It is documented in the manual.

Keep in mind though the downside of DSD direct to analog is that you will bypass all the processing in the AVR. Pretty much like 5.1 analog connection. No bass management, no room EQ.

Yes it is pure

My humble Cinema
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