New Sony SCD-XA5400ES supports DSD over HDMI! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I just sent you a private message as a reminder. Thsi way you can incorporate it in your review in May

Thanks

Too late. That's already gone. We will have to put this info into part 2.

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post #362 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 08:17 PM
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Too late. That's already gone. We will have to put this info into part 2.

Oops I guess it was not a keeper
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post #363 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 08:18 PM
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Maybe my info is old; you could be right. Anyway, i bought some DVDs today and the receipt says returns must occur within 14 days with original receipt. Whether this applies to electronics I don't know.

Oh, and the 5400 is at full MRSP on the website. No price on the store display.

Did you ask for the price in the store? I wish we had major electronic stores like in New York or in Japan where I live
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post #364 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Oops I guess it was not a keeper

No. The initial report for the May issue has been submitted. The player is still here for a follow-up.

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post #365 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

No. The initial report for the May issue has been submitted. The player is still here for a follow-up.

When is the follow-up?
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post #366 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 09:03 PM
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When is the follow-up?

It's a bimonthly column.

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post #367 of 1102 Old 02-16-2009, 09:06 PM
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It's a bimonthly column.

Very well then
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post #368 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 03:00 AM
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Did you ask for the price in the store? I wish we had major electronic stores like in New York or in Japan where I live

No, sorry. But it is curious that there was no price sticker.
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post #369 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 10:58 AM
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No, sorry. But it is curious that there was no price sticker.

Next time you go in maybe you can ask They might discount it in person
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post #370 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 11:44 AM
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Next time you go in maybe you can ask They might discount it in person

The 5400 wasn't the only item with no obvious price sticker, either. It makes me wonder why this is. There was other, older gear nearby and in another room with no stickers.
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post #371 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 01:23 PM
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A number of years ago I bought a Sony DVP-S9000ES. I purchased it as it was massively built and was a flagship of sorts at the time... I have been pleased with it as a DVD player in my theater, but using it as a CD or SACD player was always a disappointment. I found that if I used a high quality outboard DAC, redbook CDs had more air and better spacial quality than the Sony's analog SACD output. While an SACD did sound better than the redbook analog output from this player, if the analog section and DSD/analog convertor was top drawer the SACD should kill redbook... unfortunately I believe that players like this one and the countless lesser ones offered by Sony and others are what has really killed SACD. If the players could output SACDs in glorious analog (since that is ultimately where it must go) I think those of us who do listen would be buying these discs up like crazy...

I realize that one key feature of the SCD-XA5400ES is that it will output SACD via HDMI, but that doesn't interest me at present as even the better processors like the Integra 9.8 don't do two channel as well as a decent preamp... even an inexpensive vintage PS Audio or Apt.

Anyway, my question is for those who have actually listened to this new Sony, does it have air and recreate a 3D space when playing two channel SACD? Does it come remotely close to an analog LP? Will this player encourage you to buy more SACDs? I firmly believe that SACD should sound fantastic... I have heard it sound that way via some very expensive gear and in studio applications... I just want it in my home. $1,500 is quite possible, even for an ailing format. $15,000 is not.


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post #372 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

The 5400 wasn't the only item with no obvious price sticker, either. It makes me wonder why this is. There was other, older gear nearby and in another room with no stickers.

Rather than seeing a devious subplot in this, I would ascribe it to sloppiness and incompetence or, if you want to be generous, lack of interest and attention.

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post #373 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post

Anyway, my question is for those who have actually listened to this new Sony, does it have air and recreate a 3D space when playing two channel SACD? Does it come remotely close to an analog LP?

I think it does with the best sounding discs.
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post #374 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post

If the players could output SACDs in glorious analog (since that is ultimately where it must go) I think those of us who do listen would be buying these discs up like crazy...

I realize that one key feature of the SCD-XA5400ES is that it will output SACD via HDMI, but that doesn't interest me at present as even the better processors like the Integra 9.8 don't do two channel as well as a decent preamp... even an inexpensive vintage PS Audio or Apt.

Anyway, my question is for those who have actually listened to this new Sony, does it have air and recreate a 3D space when playing two channel SACD? Does it come remotely close to an analog LP? Will this player encourage you to buy more SACDs? I firmly believe that SACD should sound fantastic... I have heard it sound that way via some very expensive gear and in studio applications... I just want it in my home. $1,500 is quite possible, even for an ailing format. $15,000 is not. Widget

Widget analog LP are a farce compared to SACD quality is not even close welcome to 2009 not 1969!!!

My interest in SACD has always been multichannel SACD who cares about Stereo!! I don't listen to music in a cave but rather with company
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post #375 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 03:29 PM
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Widget analog LP are a farce compared to SACD quality is not even close welcome to 2009 not 1969!!!

My interest in SACD has always been multichannel SACD who cares about Stereo!! I don't listen to music in a cave but rather with company

I am afraid that we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree.

That said, I do believe that surround music systems can be great, but very few are and most of the software is still in the ping pong stereo or early Quad eras. I want to be at the concert, not part of it.


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post #376 of 1102 Old 02-17-2009, 04:17 PM
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I am afraid that we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. That said, I do believe that surround music systems can be great, but very few are and most of the software is still in the ping pong stereo or early Quad eras. I want to be at the concert, not part of it. Widget

As you said so eloquently to each is own

A lot of new releases on SACD are multichannel sa-cd.net
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post #377 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Rather than seeing a devious subplot in this, I would ascribe it to sloppiness and incompetence or, if you want to be generous, lack of interest and attention.

This is another reason I'm wary of making a purchase of this magnitude there. I favor the latter idea of lapsed attention, which is further enhanced by the less-than-pristine setup in the room where the Denon 3800 was.

Still, the 5400 was set up nicely and I got to examine the player. If it sounds as good as it looked, I may have to rethink my entire upgrade scheme (which I do anyway). Buying this player would dictate my video upgrade due to rack space considerations, and vice versa. The other question I must ask myself is how dedicated I am to SACD, seeing as how I've bought only 4 hybrids in 5 years of having my DV8400. At J&R there were more DVD-Audio discs than SACDs; do I want to go there? Not sure.

I'll pull out my hybrids at some point and play them. That may help the decision making.
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post #378 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 06:58 AM
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If you have only 4 SACDs, why bother?

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post #379 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
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If you have only 4 SACDs, why bother?

That's exactly the point. I like having the option, and that's why I research this player. I may want to get into SACD more, and that's what attracted me to the Sony. But this is a good CD player also from what I can glean so far, perhaps better than what I have, and the SACD ability would then be a bonus. Even my much-mentioned DV8400 was purchased originally for use as a CD player; the other formats it played were a bonus. So it wouldn't be a waste from that perspective.

The question becomes, is this player better with CD than the CD-only ones on my list? I don't know, not without hearing them. And the more-expensive Marantzes and Esoterics out there are beyond my wallet.
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post #380 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 10:09 AM
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That's exactly the point. I like having the option, and that's why I research this player. I may want to get into SACD more, and that's what attracted me to the Sony.

Again, why? If you have not found many SACDs yet that appeal to you, odds are you never will. New SACD production is limited except, perhaps, for classical music but, then again, it always was. So, if the repertoire has not yet appealed to you, it won't.

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post #381 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 11:12 AM
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Again, why? If you have not found many SACDs yet that appeal to you, odds are you never will.

Is the horse pulling the cart here? I only have a couple of handfuls of SACDs myself and virtually all of them were purchased due to their also having a redbook layer... in my system with the outboard DAC, the redbook simply sounds better. Now if I had an SACD player that actually sounded as good as the SACD potential... then perhaps I'd turn over every rock looking for more SACDs to buy.

As I mentioned before... the general lackluster performance of affordable SACD players has limited the appeal of SACDs for many. I suppose for those who are primarily surround sound fans then the 2 channel performance is a secondary issue.


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post #382 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 11:38 AM
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Mr. Widget,

Some vinyl afficianados are recording their LP's to DSD (tascam recorders?) and using PC software to burn the DSD recordings to DVD's that the 5400 can play back. It's allegedly transparent. I read about this online and then, out of the blue, my local hifi shop mentioned a local was doing the same with excellent results. That said, you may prefer another flavor of sound to Sony's and would have to audition to be sure.

From what I have read this player is a great value but I'm holding off until Kal reviews. Hopefully, JA will review the two channel performance which is my initial application.
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post #383 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 11:42 AM
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From what I have read this player is a great value but I'm holding off until Kal reviews. Hopefully, JA will review the two channel performance which is my initial application.

Actually, I did both but there will not be bench tests.

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post #384 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
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Again, why? If you have not found many SACDs yet that appeal to you, odds are you never will. New SACD production is limited except, perhaps, for classical music but, then again, it always was. So, if the repertoire has not yet appealed to you, it won't.

You're right in that if this were a matter of SACD as a primary consideration I might not bother. If the 5400 is a good CD player, I'd buy it for that, and as a secondary function perhaps (well, probably) get more SACDs. But I'm looking CD first. So while the SACD performance is intriguing, I'm looking at this player as a CD unit which happens to play SACDs also. Maybe that approach isn't typical, but it's the way I think about these things.
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post #385 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 02:12 PM
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I have the Sony running with the Onkyo and it sounds glorious in multi channel. Beats my previous upgraded Denon 3910 over a McCormack analog multi channel by a wide margin. 2-channel analog output (CD and 2 channel SACD) from the Sony is about the same quality as using Sony as transport and Onkyo as converter. However, using the Sony as a transport, using a good Dac (I have an upgraded Audio Note) and using the Onkyo as 2 channel pre sounds even better on CD.
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post #386 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 02:18 PM
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2-channel analog output (CD and 2 channel SACD) from the Sony is about the same quality as using Sony as transport and Onkyo as converter. However, using the Sony as a transport, using a good Dac (I have an upgraded Audio Note) and using the Onkyo as 2 channel pre sounds even better on CD.

You might get different results with an analog preamp better than the Onkyo.

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post #387 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 02:29 PM
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Intersting you bring it up. I was entertaining the idea of bying a good 2 channel preamp with HT bypass (May be a Modwright) and take 2 channel performance up a notch this way. However, my Onkyo has been modified and my modder assured me the Onkyo would hold its against any high end pre (he personally A/B is against 8K Hovland and pricey Macintosh and said the Onkyo won). If this is true the Onkyo is nothing short of a miracle machine - packaging all this in one box and for a bargain basement price. I did in fact get on the phone with someine that was present at the Onkyo / preamp shootout and confirmed the result. Long story short I put the preamp investment on hold and will get the Sony upgraded instead. This will hopefully make my DAC obsolete. Any thoughts on the miraculous Onkyo as preamp giant killer?
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post #388 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
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Intersting you bring it up. I was entertaining the idea of bying a good 2 channel preamp with HT bypass (May be a Modwright) and take 2 channel performance up a notch this way. However, my Onkyo has been modified and my modder assured me the Onkyo would hold its against any high end pre (he personally A/B is against 8K Hovland and pricey Macintosh and said the Onkyo won). If this is true the Onkyo is nothing short of a miracle machine - packaging all this in one box and for a bargain basement price. I did in fact get on the phone with someine that was present at the Onkyo / preamp shootout and confirmed the result. Long story short I put the preamp investment on hold and will get the Sony upgraded instead. This will hopefully make my DAC obsolete. Any thoughts on the miraculous Onkyo as preamp giant killer?

I am very skeptical. Not that there isn't room for improvement but testimony of the vendor is always unconvincing. Beyond that, I cannot say.

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post #389 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 02:42 PM
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True, but I had confirmation of the results from one of his customers. Second, I compared the Onkyo used as a multi channel analog preamp (using my upgraded Denon 3910 as a source), and much to my surprise it beat my McCormack MAP1 handily, so the Onkyo's analog preamp section can't be too shabby. In any case only way to find out is to sometime get a top notch 2 channel pre in for a comparison, which I may do if I can pick one up for a price I can resell it for with minimal loss if it does not improve my 2 channel audio performance. Any recommendations in the sub 2K range?
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post #390 of 1102 Old 02-18-2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundKernel View Post

Some vinyl afficianados are recording their LP's to DSD (tascam recorders?) and using PC software to burn the DSD recordings to DVD's that the 5400 can play back. It's allegedly transparent. I read about this online and then, out of the blue, my local hifi shop mentioned a local was doing the same with excellent results.

More likely with Korg DSD recorders.

See the DSD Disc guide.
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