New Sony SCD-XA5400ES supports DSD over HDMI! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1102 Old 01-12-2009, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pi-nk_Floyd View Post

Used to be a store here, in Columbus, that carried a huge inventory.

There's also Music Direct, which is internet or phone. I get their catalog.

This is a bit more than I'd think to spend, but the Sony player sounds like a good one. I am strictly 2-channel, and would use it for CD and any SACDs I happen to buy (only 3 hybrids so far). It would replace a Marantz DV8400 for that purpose. I need to decide if I'll wait for the Oppo 83 player or stick with DVD for now, and how I want to set up my system, but I'm pretty sure a separate CD (SACD) will be part of it.
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post #182 of 1102 Old 01-12-2009, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

There's also Music Direct, which is internet or phone. I get their catalog.

This is a bit more than I'd think to spend, but the Sony player sounds like a good one. I am strictly 2-channel, and would use it for CD and any SACDs I happen to buy (only 3 hybrids so far). It would replace a Marantz DV8400 for that purpose. I need to decide if I'll wait for the Oppo 83 player or stick with DVD for now, and how I want to set up my system, but I'm pretty sure a separate CD (SACD) will be part of it.

I heard that American Home Theater sells it for a lot less.

http://www.amsound2.com/index.asp?Pa...on=Custom&ID=2
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post #183 of 1102 Old 01-12-2009, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I hope you are not holding your breath. If it makes it into the next column (or JA insists on a full-review), it will be in the May issue at the earliest.

How was CES any cool new things coming up?
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post #184 of 1102 Old 01-12-2009, 12:07 PM
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The newer Oppo 983 and the upcoming 83 BluRay player will stream DSD directly to a receiver, and the middle line Denons will accept this. I doubt that this Sony would only stream to another Sony product. With the Oppo being 1/3 the cost, I wonder what this player introduces to the market since it's a one trick pony, and we need to search for sellers of SACD discs just to purchase them.
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post #185 of 1102 Old 01-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I heard that American Home Theater sells it for a lot less.

http://www.amsound2.com/index.asp?Pa...on=Custom&ID=2

I couldn't find it on the website. Maybe I'll check again later.
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post #186 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

The newer Oppo 983 and the upcoming 83 BluRay player will stream DSD directly to a receiver, and the middle line Denons will accept this. I doubt that this Sony would only stream to another Sony product. With the Oppo being 1/3 the cost, I wonder what this player introduces to the market since it's a one trick pony, and we need to search for sellers of SACD discs just to purchase them.

It's quite possible that this will be Sonys last highend cd player and their last sacd player. It would appear that they think people will buy this player for cd/sacd and the S5000ES blu-ray player for bd to connect to there DA6400ES top of the line receiver. Sony would have been much better off if they had combined the XA5400ES and the S5000ES into one do all unit.

What if any advantage this player will have over the Oppo 83 for hdmi streaming of dsd will have to wait for now.

I am using it in an analog 2 channel system and the sound is fantastic. I think that this is the application in which it will really shine. There aren't that many new sacd titles being released other than classical but there are plenty of sacd discs to be had. The sacd sound quality is very good with this player but where it surprises is just how good it is with cds. I believe this to be a reference level cd player from its analog outputs.

P.S. The Oppo 983 does not stream dsd, that would be the 980 and upcoming 83.
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post #187 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

It's quite possible that this will be Sonys last highend cd player and their last sacd player. It would appear that they think people will buy this player for cd/sacd and the S5000ES blu-ray player for bd to connect to there DA6400ES top of the line receiver. Sony would have been much better off if they had combined the XA5400ES and the S5000ES into one do all unit.

What if any advantage this player will have over the Oppo 83 for hdmi streaming of dsd will have to wait for now.

I am using it in an analog 2 channel system and the sound is fantastic. I think that this is the application in which it will really shine. There aren't that many new sacd titles being released other than classical but there are plenty of sacd discs to be had. The sacd sound quality is very good with this player but where it surprises is just how good it is with cds. I believe this to be a reference level cd player from its analog outputs.

P.S. The Oppo 983 does not stream dsd, that would be the 980 and upcoming 83.

Have you tried it with highend headphones
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post #188 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

It's quite possible that this will be Sonys last highend cd player and their last sacd player. It would appear that they think people will buy this player for cd/sacd and the S5000ES blu-ray player for bd to connect to there DA6400ES top of the line receiver. Sony would have been much better off if they had combined the XA5400ES and the S5000ES into one do all unit.

What if any advantage this player will have over the Oppo 83 for hdmi streaming of dsd will have to wait for now.

I am using it in an analog 2 channel system and the sound is fantastic. I think that this is the application in which it will really shine. There aren't that many new sacd titles being released other than classical but there are plenty of sacd discs to be had. The sacd sound quality is very good with this player but where it surprises is just how good it is with cds. I believe this to be a reference level cd player from its analog outputs.

P.S. The Oppo 983 does not stream dsd, that would be the 980 and upcoming 83.

Understanding that our ears and preferences may be different, how would you describe the sound? I'm looking at this along with several other players (Simaudio Moon CD-1, Cambridge 740C to name two). I could see getting something like this and then a modest but solid Blu-ray and calling it a day.
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post #189 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Have you tried it with highend headphones

I don't have "high-end headphones" but I have tried it with my Sony MDR-XD300s and the built-in headphone amp sounded really good, much better than in the XA9000ES. I will be getting better headphones to use with this player!
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post #190 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

I don't have "high-end headphones" but I have tried it with my Sony MDR-XD300s and the built-in headphone amp sounded really good, much better than in the XA9000ES. I will be getting better headphones to use with this player!

I'll suggest checking out Grados. I have a pair of SR60s, which make my old Walkman sound great.
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post #191 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Understanding that our ears and preferences may be different, how would you describe the sound? I'm looking at this along with several other players (Simaudio Moon CD-1, Cambridge 740C to name two). I could see getting something like this and then a modest but solid Blu-ray and calling it a day.

In my opinion the 740C sounded clinical and etched. It did not sound natural to my ears in my system. The 5400 sounds so much more natural and relaxed. My ears were aching after 30 minutes with the 740C and 840C but I can listen to beautiful music wash over me for hours with the 5400. I have not heard the CD-1. My associated equipment is on the slightly warm side of neutral so I expected the Cambridge players to sound better than they did.
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post #192 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

In my opinion the 740C sounded clinical and etched. It did not sound natural to my ears in my system. The 5400 sounds so much more natural and relaxed. My ears were aching after 30 minutes with the 740C and 840C but I can listen to beautiful music wash over me for hours with the 5400. I have not heard the CD-1. My associated equipment is on the slightly warm side of neutral so I expected the Cambridge players to sound better than they did.

I should have asked, how much break-in time did the Sony have? i have a Marantz DV8400, purchased originally to serve as a CD player. I'd say it's a bit warm, pleasantly so, but I think its resolving power with complex material (such as an orchestra playing full throttle) is suspect; I'll have to try that out more. If the Sony sounds anything like my Marantz but with more detail, I may be hooked.
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post #193 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I should have asked, how much break-in time did the Sony have? i have a Marantz DV8400, purchased originally to serve as a CD player. I'd say it's a bit warm, pleasantly so, but I think its resolving power with complex material (such as an orchestra playing full throttle) is suspect; I'll have to try that out more. If the Sony sounds anything like my Marantz but with more detail, I may be hooked.

I am familiar with the sound of the Marantz DV9600,but not the 8400, and the Sony 5400 sounds much more resolving yet free flowing and unforced. I believe the Sony to sound more extended at the frequency extremes also. The Sony really has a way with the high frequencies,I love cymbals on this player! The Sony does sort complex music very well giving each instrument and sound its own space to develop.

I always give gear 500 hours of break-in before making my final judgement.

What does your system consist of?

It's too bad Kal can't jump in here with his observations!
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post #194 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Understanding that our ears and preferences may be different, how would you describe the sound?

Hard to describe. By comparison the XA9000ES and previous Sony SACD players I've owned sounded noticeably softer. With the XA5400ES the sound is very taught and crisp while still being very smooth, revealing and easy to listen to. Of all the SACD players I've owned this is the best DSD DAC by quite a substantial margin, IMO.

It takes good 300-500 hours to break in though.
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post #195 of 1102 Old 01-13-2009, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rwetmore View Post

hard to describe. By comparison the xa9000es and previous sony sacd players i've owned sounded noticeably softer. With the xa5400es the sound is very taught and crisp while still being very smooth, revealing and easy to listen to. Of all the sacd players i've owned this is the best dsd dac by quite a substantial margin, imo.

It takes good 300-500 hours to break in though.

+1
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post #196 of 1102 Old 01-14-2009, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

I am familiar with the sound of the Marantz DV9600,but not the 8400, and the Sony 5400 sounds much more resolving yet free flowing and unforced. I believe the Sony to sound more extended at the frequency extremes also. The Sony really has a way with the high frequencies,I love cymbals on this player! The Sony does sort complex music very well giving each instrument and sound its own space to develop.

I always give gear 500 hours of break-in before making my final judgement.

What does your system consist of?

It's too bad Kal can't jump in here with his observations!

My system, minus power conditioners:

VPI HW19 Mk IV turntable, Denon TU-800 tuner, Pioneer Elite DVL-91 combi-player, Marantz DV8400 universal player, Audio Research LS3 preamp, B&K M-200 Sonata monoblocks (2 pair), Mirage M3-s1 speakers, Audioquest Black Mamba II and Kimber Kable Hero interconnects, and Kimber 8TC speaker cable. For video there is a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD, with a DVDO Edge processor. All components connect to the AR preamp.
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post #197 of 1102 Old 01-14-2009, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post

My system, minus power conditioners:

VPI HW19 Mk IV turntable, Denon TU-800 tuner, Pioneer Elite DVL-91 combi-player, Marantz DV8400 universal player, Audio Research LS3 preamp, B&K M-200 Sonata monoblocks (2 pair), Mirage M3-s1 speakers, Audioquest Black Mamba II and Kimber Kable Hero interconnects, and Kimber 8TC speaker cable. For video there is a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD, with a DVDO Edge processor. All components connect to the AR preamp.

You have a very fine system there! I am sure the sony 5400 would sound fantastic in your system. I could be fooling my self but I think it sounds just a little better using the balanced outs. The biggest question will probably be whether you want to spend so such money on a cd/sacd player. I bought mine here( http://unitedonlineshopping.com/ )and added a three year square trade warranty. You might want to keep an eye out on audiogon,you never know,one might just show up for less.
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post #198 of 1102 Old 01-14-2009, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by geared4me View Post

You have a very fine system there! I am sure the sony 5400 would sound fantastic in your system. I could be fooling my self but I think it sounds just a little better using the balanced outs. The biggest question will probably be whether you want to spend so such money on a cd/sacd player. I bought mine here( http://unitedonlineshopping.com/ )and added a three year square trade warranty. You might want to keep an eye out on audiogon,you never know,one might just show up for less.

Thanks. Space is a major factor as well; whatever I decide on CD/SACD determines what I do about video and vice vera. My main rack has a 5" shelf available; the Sony doesn't fit, of course, but I have an outside rack where I can create a space for it. That means my video solution can't be more than 3.5" or so tall. If I were to get a CD source that fits the rack (i.e. Simaudio CD-1), then my video choice could be whatever I want. So once I decide on either, the picture becomes clearer. But I'm looking at the 5400ES for sure.
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post #199 of 1102 Old 01-17-2009, 07:01 AM
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the Oppo only outputs decimating PCM. So if the Sony XA5400ES outputs DSD direct to Analogue it could sound a lot better than the cheapo Oppo
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post #200 of 1102 Old 01-17-2009, 07:04 AM
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I had a Marantz DV9600 absolutely awful. unreliable poor sound and menu. Fortunately I got a full refund.
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post #201 of 1102 Old 01-17-2009, 07:10 AM
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To: RpGRIMES All OPPO PLAYERS SO FAR ONLY OUTPUT PCM. THIS COMES DIRECTLY FROM OPPO> IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME ASK OPPO & DO NOT POST INCORRECT INFORMATION
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post #202 of 1102 Old 01-17-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

To: RpGRIMES All OPPO PLAYERS SO FAR ONLY OUTPUT PCM. THIS COMES DIRECTLY FROM OPPO> IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME ASK OPPO & DO NOT POST INCORRECT INFORMATION

Disbeliever, The Oppo DV-980H can output SACD audio as PCM or DSD over the HDMI. This comes directly from Oppo and from users in the surround forum here at AVS.

See "Direct Stream Digital (DSD) over HDMI (Requires compatible A/V receiver)" as one of the features listed here: http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/dv980h_features.asp

What was that again about posting incorrect information?
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post #203 of 1102 Old 01-17-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

To: RpGRIMES All OPPO PLAYERS SO FAR ONLY OUTPUT PCM. THIS COMES DIRECTLY FROM OPPO> IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME ASK OPPO & DO NOT POST INCORRECT INFORMATION

As an owner of Oppo 980, 983 and BDP-83 I feel qualified to comment. The Oppo 980 and BDP-83 both can output DSD over HDMI. The BDP-83 also offers direct DSD-to-analog conversion, but the 980 and 983 both do a DSD-PCM-analog conversion. The 983 passes only PCM over HDMI.

Since you obviously own no Oppo players, I have to wonder why you would feel compelled to post this.
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post #204 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 02:51 AM
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All who are interested in the Sony SCD-XA5400ES / STR-DA5400ES receiver. look out for the forthcoming review in March Hi-Fi News that is if you can believe anything this incompetant magazine says. Paul Miller gave a rave review to the Sony XA9000ES. However no UK retailer would demonstrate it so I bought one and after a 500 hour break in still found it sounded very poor and uninvolving compared to my 20 year old modified Marantz CD94. Despite buying the 9000ES with a big discount I still lost a lot of money when I got rid of it. In February Hi-Fi News 4 £1500 AV HD Amplifiers are reviewed PM raves over the liquid music-making of the Pioneer SC-LX81 it offered over HDMI. However in their at a glance ratings depicted on so called colour-coded pie charts the Pioneer has the worst sound rating of only 65% (Onkyo 906 85%) yet the Pioneer has by far the lowest amount of D.jitter only 37psec/50psec. The Onkyo has a large amount 470 psec/3860psec. You may wonder why I comment on this aparent error because in another review same issue the Hi-Fi News Editors CHOICE is a very expensive Denon AV stack (£11,000) PM says The lack of some sort of clock-sync to reduce jitter over HDMI (as per the Pioneer LX81 is most remiss) I have written a letter to HFN and may get a reply in the March issue.
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post #205 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 03:07 AM
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To rdgrimes The Oppo 980 outputs DSD over HDMI and then internally converts to LPCM. As you say you have a BDP-83 (not aware it had been released) how does it sound with multi-channel SACD ?
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post #206 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 06:13 AM
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All of the Oppo players sound terrific playing SACD over HDMI or analog. The BDP-83 will either convert to PCM or not according to settings. When set to PCM it can apply bass management and speaker setup to the analog outs, but when set to DSD it does not. (over analog) Obviously, when using DSD over HDMI, it makes no difference what player you have, they will all sound the same. Unable to go into specifics, I will say that the analog section of the BDP-83 is a big improvement over previous Oppo players.
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post #207 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Disbeliever View Post

To rdgrimes The Oppo 980 outputs DSD over HDMI and then internally converts to LPCM.

Again, the 980H has the ability to send DSD over HDMI with no conversion to PCM.
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post #208 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 09:50 AM
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to rdgrimes, sherbona & others This is the email I received on the 17th December 08. The DV-980H has been designed to convert DSD to PCM. There is no other player on the market which supports DSD straight to Analogue without a PCM conversion first.

Customer Service
Oppo Digital Inc U.S.A.
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post #209 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 10:00 AM
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That email is about analog output from the player where there is a digital to analog conversion. My statement was about HDMI digital output, not analog output.
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post #210 of 1102 Old 01-18-2009, 10:24 AM
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The main issue with players doing direct DSD-to-analog is that this makes any bass management or speaker setup impossible in the player. Since most AVRs also do not allow any DSP/bass management on analog inputs without first doing A-D conversion, this makes direct DSD-to-analog pretty much a straight-through thing. The end result may well be inferior due to the lack of any EQ or DSP in the user's system. If you have extensive analog processing in your system and do not need DSP then it's not an issue. But if your system uses DSP setup and EQ you will be bypassing that. Bottom line is that analog outs on a SACD player will always be a band aid at best. The new Oppo BDP-83 will be one of only 2 or 3 known players that do offer direct DSD-analog conversion.

That said, this thread IS about DSD over HDMI.
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