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cykorg's Avatar cykorg
09:03 AM Liked: 10
post #181 of 394
03-23-2010 | Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

One of the many issues with DVD-A format is that authoring was done in many different ways. There are no rules being followed. I've seen a couple that had navigational files in the AUDIO_TS folder but no audio files. Certainly if it has multichannel MLP audio, it's in the AUDIO folder.

Personally, I've had no luck playing ISO in Foobar at all, and always assumed it required some additional plugin for ISO.

I want to make it clear first that I ONLY listen to stereo music, I am not intersted in "multichannelized" music at all.
It is strange; I thought that the audio portion inside the VIDEO_TS files was usually at 48Khz, but in this case (my case, with my .iso files), VLC is able to read them, and from the specification of the audio track I can clearly see 96Khz.
Are they fake 96khz audio files or am I owning true DVD-Audio iso's?
(for the record, they are DVD-A iso's from Chesky...)
Tx to everybody
himey's Avatar himey
02:33 PM Liked: 11
post #182 of 394
03-23-2010 | Posts: 1,371
Joined: May 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by cykorg View Post

I want to make it clear first that I ONLY listen to stereo music, I am not intersted in "multichannelized" music at all.
It is strange; I thought that the audio portion inside the VIDEO_TS files was usually at 48Khz, but in this case (my case, with my .iso files), VLC is able to read them, and from the specification of the audio track I can clearly see 96Khz.
Are they fake 96khz audio files or am I owning true DVD-Audio iso's?
(for the record, they are DVD-A iso's from Chesky...)
Tx to everybody

post #180 answers your question I believe...Not Fake!
Sherbona's Avatar Sherbona
06:11 PM Liked: 10
post #183 of 394
03-23-2010 | Posts: 1,626
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by cykorg View Post

I want to make it clear first that I ONLY listen to stereo music, I am not intersted in "multichannelized" music at all.
It is strange; I thought that the audio portion inside the VIDEO_TS files was usually at 48Khz, but in this case (my case, with my .iso files), VLC is able to read them, and from the specification of the audio track I can clearly see 96Khz.
Are they fake 96khz audio files or am I owning true DVD-Audio iso's?
(for the record, they are DVD-A iso's from Chesky...)
Tx to everybody

Basically if the AUDIO_TS is empty than it is not a DVD-Audio disc.

Just a FYI, stereo 96kHz is not out of spec for regular DVD (VIDEO_TS). I believe I have some CD+DVDs (Neil Young perhaps?) where the DVD is 2channel 96kHz pcm.
greggplummer's Avatar greggplummer
07:04 PM Liked: 10
post #184 of 394
03-23-2010 | Posts: 886
Joined: Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherbona View Post

Basically if the AUDIO_TS is empty than it is not a DVD-Audio disc.

Just a FYI, stereo 96kHz is not out of spec for regular DVD (VIDEO_TS). I believe I have some CD+DVDs (Neil Young perhaps?) where the DVD is 2channel 96kHz pcm.

That's right. Neil Young's "Sugar Mountain - Live at Canterbury House 1968" is a video DVD that includes stereo 24-bit 96kHz PCM tracks. I've never seen any MLP tracks in a DVD-V.

A good program for ripping/extracting these tracks is DVD Audio Extractor.
cykorg's Avatar cykorg
10:19 AM Liked: 10
post #185 of 394
03-25-2010 | Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 2010
[quote=greggplummer;18366526]That's right. Neil Young's "Sugar Mountain - Live at Canterbury House 1968" is a video DVD that includes stereo 24-bit 96kHz PCM tracks. I've never seen any MLP tracks in a DVD-V.


OK, it is quite clear now. So, even if we are talking about a DVD-Video with a 24bit/96khz stero track, this track is a lossless one, isn't it?
A last question, concerning the Sampling rate: which is the physical limit for a S/PDIF connection (both RCA and TOSlink)?
I mean, I currently use an Accuphase CD player as external DAC for my pc, but it can handle only 48Khz through its optical/RCA inputs; I am about to replace it with a newer model that will handle max 96Khz. Asking them the reason why their products cannot accept 192Khz signals, They replied that there is such an amount of data ia a 192Khz file, that the normal S/PDIF is not able to manage it, so, max 96Khz.
Are they right? How do You usually transfer a 192Khz signal from your pc's to an external DAC?
Tx
greggplummer's Avatar greggplummer
02:52 PM Liked: 10
post #186 of 394
03-25-2010 | Posts: 886
Joined: Jan 2001
[quote=cykorg;18376451]
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggplummer View Post

That's right. Neil Young's "Sugar Mountain - Live at Canterbury House 1968" is a video DVD that includes stereo 24-bit 96kHz PCM tracks. I've never seen any MLP tracks in a DVD-V.


OK, it is quite clear now. So, even if we are talking about a DVD-Video with a 24bit/96khz stero track, this track is a lossless one, isn't it?
A last question, concerning the Sampling rate: which is the physical limit for a S/PDIF connection (both RCA and TOSlink)?
I mean, I currently use an Accuphase CD player as external DAC for my pc, but it can handle only 48Khz through its optical/RCA inputs; I am about to replace it with a newer model that will handle max 96Khz. Asking them the reason why their products cannot accept 192Khz signals, They replied that there is such an amount of data ia a 192Khz file, that the normal S/PDIF is not able to manage it, so, max 96Khz.
Are they right? How do You usually transfer a 192Khz signal from your pc's to an external DAC?
Tx

No, you don't have 24-bit/96kHz lossless compressed audio on the DVD-Video side. You can only have lossy compressed AC3 (Dolby Digital) or DTS audio OR you can have uncompressed PCM. This is what is on the Neil Young DVD-V. It is stereo 24-bit 96 kHz PCM audio.

I do not use a S/PDIF connection for this. I use a FireWire (working on USB2) connection to an external soundcard with integrated DAC. Basically this is very much like using a external pro audio interface.
RealAfrica's Avatar RealAfrica
08:53 AM Liked: 13
post #187 of 394
04-22-2010 | Posts: 28
Joined: Apr 2009
SPDIF is limited as you were told by the manufacturers.
To get 24/192stereo (same applies for 24/96 multichannel) you need to use HDMI version 1.3 or analogue connections.

If you have a good iso then use the free programme ImgBurn to burn that iso to DVD-A, then it will play in you DVD-A player.
rdgrimes's Avatar rdgrimes
09:03 AM Liked: 292
post #188 of 394
04-22-2010 | Posts: 16,762
Joined: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealAfrica View Post

To get 24/192stereo (same applies for 24/96 multichannel) you need to use HDMI version 1.3 or analogue connections.

Actually, HDMI 1.2 allows 5.1 LPCM up to 24/192.
RealAfrica's Avatar RealAfrica
09:05 AM Liked: 13
post #189 of 394
04-22-2010 | Posts: 28
Joined: Apr 2009
About MLP: Meridian Lossless Packaging.
This is used to get round the restrictions natural to DVD-A authoring of larger files. MLP compresses, completely losslessly, to close to 50% of the original size.
Generally the MLP sound on a DVD is the best quality sound.

DTS core is basically mp3 for movie soundtracks. However things like DTS-CD exist in multi channel, but just consider that if a CD sounds adequate, at best, then how can compressing 6 channels of that same music onto the same CD space sound? DTS-CD can give you mp3 equivalent surround sound.

DTS might be a solution/compromise for getting round the limits of SPDIF, but it will lower the resolution of your sound quality. Better to avoid SPDIF if possible and use analogue or HDMI connections.

On DVD you often find DTS tracks and they are usually better quality than the Dolby Digital tracks, but not as good as the MLP/PCM tracks.

Nowadays there is a more recent development of DTS, called DTS-HD Master Audio. This is a much better quality of sound and is now similar to MLP. However, if writing to Blu Ray, I believe it is possible to get even higher sound resolution with DTS-Master Audio than MLP in multi channel music.
Sherbona's Avatar Sherbona
09:16 AM Liked: 10
post #190 of 394
04-22-2010 | Posts: 1,626
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealAfrica View Post

SPDIF is limited as you were told by the manufacturers.
To get 24/192stereo (same applies for 24/96 multichannel) you need to use HDMI version 1.3 or analogue connections.

SPDIF does not have designated bit rates. If the transmitting and receiving devices can handle the chosen kHz then all is good. However 192kHz content is out of spec for normal DVD - and for DVD-Audio 192kHz content is usually 'protected' thus will not be output via the S/PDIF by the player.
dalvis's Avatar dalvis
05:17 PM Liked: 10
post #191 of 394
07-07-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2001
I know this is an old thread, but I have a problem. I think I followed the instructions properly, but I can only play the 2 channel MLP tracks. The 6 channel tracks are highly distorted and SLLOOOWWW. I have the same issue on the few DVD-A's I own.

I'm using win 7 and Xonar HDAV1.3.

Any suggestions?

thanks,

Dwayne
MSmith83's Avatar MSmith83
05:42 PM Liked: 71
post #192 of 394
07-07-2010 | Posts: 8,689
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalvis View Post

I know this is an old thread, but I have a problem. I think I followed the instructions properly, but I can only play the 2 channel MLP tracks. The 6 channel tracks are highly distorted and SLLOOOWWW. I have the same issue on the few DVD-A's I own.

I'm using win 7 and Xonar HDAV1.3.

Any suggestions?

Try lowering the buffer length to 400ms or around there. You will find the buffer option in "File -> Preferences -> Playback -> Output".
dalvis's Avatar dalvis
05:13 AM Liked: 10
post #193 of 394
07-08-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2001
Thank you for the suggestion, but that didn't help. The 6 channel tracks have a constant clicking. Is that the watermark?
Sherbona's Avatar Sherbona
08:49 AM Liked: 10
post #194 of 394
07-08-2010 | Posts: 1,626
Joined: Aug 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalvis View Post

Thank you for the suggestion, but that didn't help. The 6 channel tracks have a constant clicking. Is that the watermark?

No, watermark issue manifests itself as the music stops playing after 15 (or is it 30?) seconds. Did you have the clicking before changing the buffer or is that something new? Did the change affect the distortion and slowness problem?
dalvis's Avatar dalvis
09:27 AM Liked: 10
post #195 of 394
07-08-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2001
The clicking and the slowness is about the same as before the buffer change. Maybe it's not clicking, but stuttering. I use the analog out, but that shouldn't make a difference.

thanks for any suggestions
manisiutkin's Avatar manisiutkin
12:18 PM Liked: 10
post #196 of 394
07-08-2010 | Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 2009
This stuttering seems to be related to x64 platform. Do you run foobar on 64-bit Windows?
dalvis's Avatar dalvis
07:19 PM Liked: 10
post #197 of 394
07-08-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2001
I'm running win 7 32-bit
manisiutkin's Avatar manisiutkin
04:36 PM Liked: 10
post #198 of 394
07-09-2010 | Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 2009
Try to check decoder's performance. Select any stuttering track and convert it in WAV format (tick off "Don't reset DSP between tracks" in "Processing" tab). If decoder is able to run much faster than realtime, then the issue might not be related to decoder. Try to playback decoded WAV too. Will it play fine?
dalvis's Avatar dalvis
05:06 PM Liked: 10
post #199 of 394
07-11-2010 | Posts: 27
Joined: Oct 2001
I had activated the neutralizer in the output. Once I removed that, everything works great. Now begins the hunt for DVD-A's

thanks
manisiutkin's Avatar manisiutkin
05:20 AM Liked: 10
post #200 of 394
07-12-2010 | Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 2009
That's right, neutralizer doesn't run well in realtime.
schnack's Avatar schnack
09:46 AM Liked: 10
post #201 of 394
12-19-2010 | Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 2010
I think I'm understanding what's going on with my setup now, but I was hoping someone could confirm a few things. I have a DVD-A of Beck's Sea Change that I have ripped onto my HDD with Foobar. It wasn't playing smoothly from the disc, so I decided to rip it onto my HDD to see if that would help. It did, and now it is playing smoothly. Here's what I'm not sure of: I had a DVD player with multichannel analog outputs, which is now dead. Before it died, I had a chance to listen to the Beck DVD-A the way it was intended, and it sounded phenomenal. You could tell that there was a different, separate signal being sent to each channel. I'm assuming that because I am running the signal out of my computer via a coaxial digital cable, that I cannot achieve more than 2 channels at 24/96 (or in this case 88.2-that's what the Sea Change DVD-A is). If I use analog cables going into the multichannel inputs on my reciever, I should be able to get the 24/96 to all 5.1 channels and get the full DVD-A quality, correct? The only problem is that I use ASIO drivers with Foobar, which from what I understand, can only be used for output with the optical/coaxial digital cables. So basically I just want to confirm that these are my options:

1. Listen to the DD/DTS track that comes on the DVD-A, so that I can bypass the Windows kernel mixer and still get the 5.1 mix. Obviously not ideal because it's lossy.

2. 2 channels of 24/96 digital sound via the coaxial cable into my receiver while bypassing the windows kernel mixer with ASIO.

3. 5.1 channels of 24/96 analog sound via 3 separate 1/8" mini stereo to RCA cables from the analog outputs on my sound card into the multichannel input on my receiver, while having no choice but to go through the windows kernel mixer.

Correct? If so, this raises a few more questions:

1. Which do you suggest is best? I'm going to compare myself, but any opinions on the subject are appreciated.

2. Can I get the best of both worlds (bypass Windows kernel mixer and get 24/96 in 5.1 channels) if I get a HDMI audio card such as the ASUS HDAV? Are there any other sound cards that will do this?

3. If so, how would my receiver handle that signal? I suppose it would just show up as PCM, except it would be 5.1 as opposed to the usual 2.0, correct?
I'm not looking to upgrade my sound card any time real soon either way, but it would be nice to know that I'll have the option when I build a new system a couple years from now.


Sorry for reviving a thread that's been dead for a while, but I really just need a little reassurance that I'm on the right track here. Thanks for any and all responses/info.
MSmith83's Avatar MSmith83
01:26 PM Liked: 71
post #202 of 394
12-19-2010 | Posts: 8,689
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnack View Post

So basically I just want to confirm that these are my options:

1. Listen to the DD/DTS track that comes on the DVD-A, so that I can bypass the Windows kernel mixer and still get the 5.1 mix. Obviously not ideal because it's lossy.

2. 2 channels of 24/96 digital sound via the coaxial cable into my receiver while bypassing the windows kernel mixer with ASIO.

3. 5.1 channels of 24/96 analog sound via 3 separate 1/8" mini stereo to RCA cables from the analog outputs on my sound card into the multichannel input on my receiver, while having no choice but to go through the windows kernel mixer.

Correct?

Those are essentially your options, but you should be able to bypass Windows' mixer via analog as well. If you are using Windows Vista or 7, then WASAPI is another way to get "bit-perfect" output.


Quote:
Originally Posted by schnack View Post

If so, this raises a few more questions:

1. Which do you suggest is best? I'm going to compare myself, but any opinions on the subject are appreciated.

2. Can I get the best of both worlds (bypass Windows kernel mixer and get 24/96 in 5.1 channels) if I get a HDMI audio card such as the ASUS HDAV? Are there any other sound cards that will do this?

3. If so, how would my receiver handle that signal? I suppose it would just show up as PCM, except it would be 5.1 as opposed to the usual 2.0, correct?
I'm not looking to upgrade my sound card any time real soon either way, but it would be nice to know that I'll have the option when I build a new system a couple years from now.

Things get a bit tricky here, because it depends on what a particular sound card and your AVR are capable of handling.

I'm not sure what exactly the HDAV is capable of, but the newer AMD/ATI and Nvidia graphics cards can output high-resolution, multichannel PCM over HDMI using ASIO or WASAPI. It is worth mentioning that 88.2 kHz is a sampling rate that many HDMI cards cannot output.
schnack's Avatar schnack
06:00 PM Liked: 10
post #203 of 394
12-19-2010 | Posts: 4
Joined: Dec 2010
Thanks for the quick reply. Much appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Those are essentially your options, but you should be able to bypass Windows' mixer via analog as well. If you are using Windows Vista or 7, then WASAPI is another way to get "bit-perfect" output.


Things get a bit tricky here, because it depends on what a particular sound card and your AVR are capable of handling.

I'm not sure what exactly the HDAV is capable of, but the newer AMD/ATI and Nvidia graphics cards can output high-resolution, multichannel PCM over HDMI using ASIO or WASAPI. It is worth mentioning that 88.2 kHz is a sampling rate that many HDMI cards cannot output.

I'm running XP. Does that mean no WASAPI? Is there another method of getting bit perfect through an analog connection?

I was wondering about HDMI sound through my video card earlier today, because I thought I had read that before. I have an ATI Radeon 4650. I'll have to check out that option. Then I'd be able to listen to the DTS MA and DD True HD soundtracks off of my blu ray drive. That would be nice as well. I don't really want to get rid of my sound card though. I have the Xonar ASUS D2, which I kinda like. Any input about the pros/cons of continuing to use the Xonar vs. switching over to the Radeon for sound would be much appreciated. Can I switch back and forth between the two? That would be ideal.

My AVR btw is a Harman Kardon AVR3600. I got it two days ago and I love it. It has HDMI audio and all the usual Dolby, DTS, and Pro Logic decoders, plus a few others. My last receiver had most of the same stuff (except for HDMI audio- it was HDMI video only) so I assume that most modern receivers would handle the signal in the same way. Not too sure.

I'm gonna go and check out the HDMI audio via video card and bit perfect playback via analog options. Thanks again for the info. Any more is always welcome.
buletti's Avatar buletti
08:36 AM Liked: 10
post #204 of 394
01-07-2011 | Posts: 30
Joined: Jul 2006
I just noticed there is a zip file with a DVDA meta data database on the sourceforge page. Where do I have to put the unzipped "dvda_metabase" folder in order to have the lookup working? I tried C:\\Documents and Settings\\$user\\Application Data\\foobar2000\\user-components\\foo_input_dvda but didn't work.
manisiutkin's Avatar manisiutkin
07:50 AM Liked: 10
post #205 of 394
01-13-2011 | Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 2009
put dvda_metabase folder in C:\\Documents and Settings\\$user\\Application Data\\foobar2000
buletti's Avatar buletti
10:36 AM Liked: 10
post #206 of 394
01-14-2011 | Posts: 30
Joined: Jul 2006
Thanks for the reply. It seems as if none of my dvd-a's is contained in the database tho
Jack Gilvey's Avatar Jack Gilvey
08:43 AM Liked: 11
post #207 of 394
01-17-2011 | Posts: 6,210
Joined: Jan 2000
Installed this over the weekend...what a great plug-in. All kinds of "free" 24/96 fodder for the PC just sitting on my shelf. Thanks for the effort.

Anyone have any luck getting proper stereo tracks off of Queen's "A Night At The Opera"? The tracks labelled :

[A_NIGHT_AT_THE_OPERA #11] Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/96000 + C-LFE 24/96000 (stereo downmix)

don't seem to be downmixed although they are stereo. On "Bohemian Rhapsody", for instance, it sounds like the L/C/R with lead vocal intact but the mix is off and there are whole parts missing (like the "No - we will not let you go" from the "chorus" which is almost completely absent). I think the surrounds (or even center depending on how it was used for lead vocal) may have been left on the mixing room floor.
manisiutkin's Avatar manisiutkin
01:22 AM Liked: 10
post #208 of 394
01-20-2011 | Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 2009
Yeah, some of such "hybrid" MLP tracks (with 2 multichannel and stereo substreams) in stereo don't sound good at all. You could try "Convert 5.1 to stereo" foobar DSP plugin instead.
batagy's Avatar batagy
06:01 PM Liked: 10
post #209 of 394
02-02-2011 | Posts: 66
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

Installed this over the weekend...what a great plug-in. All kinds of "free" 24/96 fodder for the PC just sitting on my shelf. Thanks for the effort.

Anyone have any luck getting proper stereo tracks off of Queen's "A Night At The Opera"? The tracks labelled :

[A_NIGHT_AT_THE_OPERA #11] Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs 24/96000 + C-LFE 24/96000 (stereo downmix)

don't seem to be downmixed although they are stereo. On "Bohemian Rhapsody", for instance, it sounds like the L/C/R with lead vocal intact but the mix is off and there are whole parts missing (like the "No - we will not let you go" from the "chorus" which is almost completely absent). I think the surrounds (or even center depending on how it was used for lead vocal) may have been left on the mixing room floor.

I think there is an issue with this Queen disc itself, because I have this DVD-A also and the stereo downmix sounds strange also with standard standalone DVD player. When playing the downmix, some parts of the music cannot be heard. It something with the mixdown settings on the disc itself, I guess.
Jack Gilvey's Avatar Jack Gilvey
05:08 PM Liked: 11
post #210 of 394
02-03-2011 | Posts: 6,210
Joined: Jan 2000
Ahh, ok, thanks. I've had better luck with the "Convert 5.1 to stereo" plugin suggested above (thanks!) but the mix is still off.

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