Blu Spec Cd remasters? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-22-2010, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,
Has anybody heard any of the remasters of famous albums using sonys Blu Spec format. I am curious if there is any difference in the sound quality.
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post #2 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 12:54 AM
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I haven't heard any but I just wanted to point out that "Blu Spec" is a manufacturing process, not a format - the end result is a standard redbook CD disc(44.1kHz/16bit/PCM) which means any difference is the result of the remastering...

Here's an old thread where there was some discussion (but no first hand report): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1081853
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 06:01 AM
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I wouldn't assume that any of these releases has involved a new master, since the Blu Spec technically only involves a different disc stamper creation method.

If you tell people it sounds better, 60% will agree that it does. Welcome to Sony's world.
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post #4 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 11:16 AM
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Since this is Redbook 2 ch CD why is it in the multi-channel forum?
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post #5 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 12:03 PM
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I have about 35 Blu-Spec CD's. They mostly consist of Miles Davis, Can, and some Italian Prog-Rock. The Can Blu-Spec's sound the best, by far, even better than my SACD versions. The Can Blu-Spec's just came out in January, and are Mini LP's, while the rest are older Blu-Spec's and are in a jewel case. So hopefully, if these Can Blu-Spec's are a sign of things to come, then 2010 might just be the year for Blu-Spec to really take off.

To answer the original question; Yes, there is a difference in sound quality, but not by a huge margin, except the 2010 Can releases. A great basis for comparison is the more popular SHM format (I have over 60 SHM albums). Although the technology is slightly different, they are both basically in the same market, of offering a better quality disc. And both are starting to sound better, and better as time/releases/rereleases go's on. Most SHM's are now released in Mini LP cases instead of the 2008 and early 2009 jewel cases.

If you are interested in buying Blu Spec's or SHM's I recommend www.cdjapan.com they are fast, reliable, and have a cool coupon program. Just watch out for the shipping costs!
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

...To answer the original question; Yes, there is a difference in sound quality, but not by a huge margin, except the 2010 Can releases...

Improvements in a Redbook CD's SQ is 100% related to the (re) mastering process (which is probably the case since Sony can do some of the best re-mastering in the business). SQ improvements have noting to do with using a blue laser to cut the pits in the CD Master. This pure Sony marketing at it's best by "playing off BD". If these same "Blu-spc" CD's were made with a red laser cut CD Master they would be identical in sound, structure and data stream. It all in the (re) mastering.
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-23-2010, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I have about 35 Blu-Spec CD's. They mostly consist of Miles Davis, Can, and some Italian Prog-Rock. The Can Blu-Spec's sound the best, by far, even better than my SACD versions. The Can Blu-Spec's just came out in January, and are Mini LP's, while the rest are older Blu-Spec's and are in a jewel case. So hopefully, if these Can Blu-Spec's are a sign of things to come, then 2010 might just be the year for Blu-Spec to really take off.

To answer the original question; Yes, there is a difference in sound quality, but not by a huge margin, except the 2010 Can releases. A great basis for comparison is the more popular SHM format (I have over 60 SHM albums). Although the technology is slightly different, they are both basically in the same market, of offering a better quality disc. And both are starting to sound better, and better as time/releases/rereleases go's on. Most SHM's are now released in Mini LP cases instead of the 2008 and early 2009 jewel cases.

If you are interested in buying Blu Spec's or SHM's I recommend www.cdjapan.com they are fast, reliable, and have a cool coupon program. Just watch out for the shipping costs!

Thanks for your response. I might ck out some of these. What Prog CDs are you reffering to?
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post #8 of 21 Old 03-24-2010, 10:44 PM
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Improvements in a Redbook CD's SQ is 100% related to the (re) mastering process

I agree that sound quality is due almost completely to the mastering process, but the reason I don't 100% agree with you, is because I believe the disc quality does play a very small part, as well. For example; I have a couple of different CD mat's and they definitely add to the music soundstage. My non-audiophile friend, and even my wife can hear a difference with the mat's. It's all about the laser absorbition. And that seems to be what SHM and Blu-Spec are going for. But since the only consistent re-masters for my favorite albums come out on SHM (which is why I have so many), and to a lesser extent-Blu-Spec, you can't really do A-B comparisons with Redbook's.

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Thanks for your response. I might ck out some of these. What Prog CDs are you reffering to?

No prob. Let's see..

Soft Machine/ Third
Banco/ Darwin!, Del Mutuo Soccorso, & Io Sono Nato Libero
PFM (Premiata Forneria Marconi)/ Per Un Amico, Photos of Ghosts, L'isola Di Niente, Storia Di Un Minuto
Magma/ MDK
Traffic/ Traffic

And pretty much every classic Miles Davis album, including his Jazz-Rock/Fusion/electric period, which are: In a Silent Way, Jack Johnson, & Bitches Brew (one of my top favorite albums of all time).
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-25-2010, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

...I have a couple of different CD mat's and they definitely add to the music soundstage. My non-audiophile friend, and even my wife can hear a difference with the mat's. It's all about the laser absorbition. And that seems to be what SHM and Blu-Spec are going for....and to a lesser extent-Blu-Spec, you can't really do A-B comparisons with Redbook's....

You can take your current CD's and use a green marker around the edge and this eliminates "laser absorbition" (is that like absorption?). Also Blu-spc's and SHM-CD's are Redbook CD's.
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post #10 of 21 Old 03-25-2010, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I agree that sound quality is due almost completely to the mastering process, but the reason I don't 100% agree with you, is because I believe the disc quality does play a very small part, as well. For example; I have a couple of different CD mat's and they definitely add to the music soundstage. My non-audiophile friend, and even my wife can hear a difference with the mat's. It's all about the laser absorbition. And that seems to be what SHM and Blu-Spec are going for. But since the only consistent re-masters for my favorite albums come out on SHM (which is why I have so many), and to a lesser extent-Blu-Spec, you can't really do A-B comparisons with Redbook's.



No prob. Let's see..

Soft Machine/ Third
Banco/ Darwin!, Del Mutuo Soccorso, & Io Sono Nato Libero
PFM (Premiata Forneria Marconi)/ Per Un Amico, Photos of Ghosts, L'isola Di Niente, Storia Di Un Minuto
Magma/ MDK
Traffic/ Traffic

And pretty much every classic Miles Davis album, including his Jazz-Rock/Fusion/electric period, which are: In a Silent Way, Jack Johnson, & Bitches Brew (one of my top favorite albums of all time).

Wow PFM,
Not to many people know about this band Love them I was and still am a fan of Prog from the 70s. Nektar?
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-25-2010, 11:26 PM
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You can take your current CD's and use a green marker around the edge and this eliminates "laser absorbition" (is that like absorption?). Also Blu-spc's and SHM-CD's are Redbook CD's.

I started using the "CD Stoplight" pen, for laser absorption (sorry about the spelling error) but that was after I was already using the disc mat's, and I couldn't tell a difference. So I'm sure it's overkill, but it I still use both, just in case..And I don't know about them being considered redbook CD's. I know that SACD, and DVD-A aren't, and I don't think XRCD meets the redbook standard, even though they are all technically "music compact discs". But I'm not really a techie, so I can certainly be misunderstanding things.



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Wow, PFM, Not to many people know about this band Love them I was and still am a fan of Prog from the 70s. Nektar?

I've heard Nektar, but I don't have any of their albums...yet..

Sometimes I wish I could have been around during the Prog-rock heyday, but I'm only 29. Prog-rock, Fusion, and some Jazz, are all I listen to, since I discovered it a few years ago. Can, Yes, Focus, King Crimson, ELP, David Bowie (mainly Low & Heroes), Daevid Allen/Gong, are some of my favorites. I'm so glad they are remastering all this great music, even if it is on a superfluous SHM or Blu-Spec CD.
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-26-2010, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I started using the "CD Stoplight" pen, for laser absorption (sorry about the spelling error) but that was after I was already using the disc mat's, and I couldn't tell a difference. So I'm sure it's overkill, but it I still use both, just in case..And I don't know about them being considered redbook CD's. I know that SACD, and DVD-A aren't, and I don't think XRCD meets the redbook standard, even though they are all technically "music compact discs". But I'm not really a techie, so I can certainly be misunderstanding things.

Eulogytool,

Not trying to be nasty to you, but I must agree--you are not a "techie."

Drawing green circles on your CDs with a "CD Stoplight" pen is not going to make any disc sound better.

Do yourself a favour and go to this website and read it from end to end. Then you will have liberated yourself from the clutches of the wacko-tweakie squads that have you SO turned around and upside down.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/

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post #13 of 21 Old 03-26-2010, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I have about 35 Blu-Spec CD's. They mostly consist of Miles Davis, Can, and some Italian Prog-Rock. The Can Blu-Spec's sound the best, by far, even better than my SACD versions. The Can Blu-Spec's just came out in January, and are Mini LP's, while the rest are older Blu-Spec's and are in a jewel case. So hopefully, if these Can Blu-Spec's are a sign of things to come, then 2010 might just be the year for Blu-Spec to really take off.

To answer the original question; Yes, there is a difference in sound quality, but not by a huge margin, except the 2010 Can releases. A great basis for comparison is the more popular SHM format (I have over 60 SHM albums). Although the technology is slightly different, they are both basically in the same market, of offering a better quality disc. And both are starting to sound better, and better as time/releases/rereleases go's on. Most SHM's are now released in Mini LP cases instead of the 2008 and early 2009 jewel cases.

If you are interested in buying Blu Spec's or SHM's I recommend www.cdjapan.com they are fast, reliable, and have a cool coupon program. Just watch out for the shipping costs!

Have you compared any Blu_Spec or SHM with the K2 format.
Also have you tried the HQC discs. I put them in the same category as the SHM and Blu_Spec., a better quality CD.
I'd be interested if you notice any difference.
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post #14 of 21 Old 03-26-2010, 10:18 AM
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Drawing green circles on your CDs with a "CD Stoplight" pen is not going to make any disc sound better.

There must be alot of people that are wrong then. I read numerous positive reviews on it, and when you consider the price, it is basically nothing to try it, so I did. I couldn't tell a difference, though, because I was already using the disc mat, which also does what the CD Stoplight does. Thanks for the link, I will check it out.

Quote:


Have you compared any Blu_Spec or SHM with the K2 format.

Yes, I have. I have a few K2HD Discs (Todd Rundegren and ELP) that I upgraded to SHM from, and the main difference I can tell is that the bass seems deeper. The K2 and SHM discs, that I have, look identical, except say SHM around the inside rim, so I assume they are the same master, just on the SHM disc. I only have one HQCD, and it sounds good, definitely comparable with the rest of my discs.
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post #15 of 21 Old 03-26-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

There must be alot of people that are wrong then. I read numerous positive reviews on it, and when you consider the price, it is basically nothing to try it, so I did. I couldn't tell a difference, though, because I was already using the disc mat, which also does what the CD Stoplight does. Thanks for the link, I will check it out....

Besides silly useless CD mats and magic CD green markers lots of people wrongly believe in other types of superstition too, like witchcraft, astrology, reincarnation, ESP, vampires, UFOs and there is even a Flat Earth Society.
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-26-2010, 08:36 PM
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Besides silly useless CD mats and magic CD green markers lots of people wrongly believe in other types of superstition too, like witchcraft, astrology, reincarnation, ESP, vampires, UFOs and there is even a Flat Earth Society.

Touche!

Why are so many AVS users so passionately stubborn about these "upgrade" subjects?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of these new-age, herbal, hippies, but just because different people believe in different things, doesn't make anyone "wrong". Especially when there's little, to no proof to the contrary. Regarding the disc mat's. I'm not trying to convince anyone. However, I also know that in my case, it's not placebo. I already said that it wasn't just me that noticed a difference, it was also noticed by other people, who aren't biased. In fact, when those other people heard the differences, they didn't even know what I was doing. I mean, they didn't know that I added in the disc mat. They just said it "sounded better" the first time (when I had the mat in). What about that? Maybe they used ESP? If you only knew how OCD I am about music and my system, you probably wouldn't assume that I'm full of it.

I guess I'm trying to say that just because you and some others can't tell a difference in certain things, because of the different room, setup, system, or whatever, doesn't mean that the people that can are either wrong, or are the same types of fools that believe the earth is flat. Besides, I believe the earth is shaped like an octagon. Care to fly me out to space and prove me wrong?
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post #17 of 21 Old 03-27-2010, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

....However, I also know that in my case, it's not placebo. I already said that it wasn't just me that noticed a difference, it was also noticed by other people, who aren't biased. In fact, when those other people heard the differences, they didn't even know what I was doing. I mean, they didn't know that I added in the disc mat. They just said it "sounded better" the first time (when I had the mat in). What about that? Maybe they used ESP? If you only knew how OCD I am about music and my system, you probably wouldn't assume that I'm full of it.

I guess I'm trying to say that just because you and some others can't tell a difference in certain things, because of the different room, setup, system, or whatever, doesn't mean that the people that can are either wrong, or are the same types of fools that believe the earth is flat. Besides, I believe the earth is shaped like an octagon. Care to fly me out to space and prove me wrong?

It is placebo, voodoo or ESP but it's not a factual or audible improvement. FACT: A CD is just a storage medium for a binary data stream. So if 0110001000010001 is on the CD and 0110001000010001 is read off the CD it won't matter if you paint green circles or put it on a water bed mat. I's the same exact (data stream) info and therefore can't be or sound any different. FACT: Set up a true DBT and you will see (or more correctly hear) that there is no discernible difference because there is NO difference between the data stream coming of the CD, green/mat or not and no differences in sound. Without a DBT there is no way to accurately tell if subtle sound quality has changed since audio memory is extremely inaccurate. FACT: Any differences in sound you and your friend noticed (if there were in fact any) would be attributed to other real factors and not voodoo mats and witchcraft green circles.
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-27-2010, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

Touche!

Why are so many AVS users so passionately stubborn about these "upgrade" subjects?

It's called "science", check it out. If it flies in the face of science and reason and defies the laws of physics, the burden of proof is on the proponent not the opponent.

Science tells us that 60% of people will hear a difference simply because they are told there's a difference or they expect to hear a difference. With numbers like that, only double blind testing has any real meaning.
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-27-2010, 10:09 AM
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It is placebo, voodoo or ESP but it's not a factual or audible improvement. FACT: A CD is just a storage medium for a binary data stream. FACT: Any differences in sound you and your friend noticed (if there were in fact any) would be attributed to other real factors and not voodoo mats and witchcraft green circles.

Although it's funny how you can't explain what not only I heard, but what two other people heard, who knew nothing about the experiment I was doing, so you try to make it out like I made it up (as if I have any reason to lie). I've come to learn that no matter what I say it's not going to change a thing, as it will just be written off. So I won't waste my time. Just assume what I already know you do; that I'm a credulous fool, highly susceptible to placebo.

Quote:


It's called "science", check it out. If it flies in the face of science and reason and defies the laws of physics, the burden of proof is on the proponent not the opponent.

Check it out? Maybe you didn't get the memo, but there are a lot of unexplained scientific phenomena. Again, just because you can't see, hear, or explain it with science, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

With that said, perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts. I'm not being a proponent of anything. I have better things to do than endlessly debate things that will probably never be resolved. Like I said; I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I was simply telling my personal experience, and of course, the internet being the internet, it turned into a friggin' "you're wrong, I'm right", "scientific", debate. As a matter of fact, I'm done replying on this topic, if it doesn't regard the original subject.

No hard feelings on my end, and good day to you folks.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-27-2010, 10:31 AM
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Although it's funny how you can't explain what not only I heard, but what two other people heard....

It's called belief and it's the most powerful force in the universe. If you believe (in) something to be true then it is true to you regardless of the actual indisputable facts or laws of science. Beliefs can be truths but only facts can be facts.

If you want to prove it to yourself (one way or the other) do a DBT and I'll bet dollars to donuts with a significant statistical sample you can't do better than a bell curve.
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post #21 of 21 Old 12-12-2012, 10:49 PM
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I have a question I'm hoping someone might have the answer to re: blu-spec CDs. I'm looking at picking up the blu-spec version of Toto IV, because the recording quality was already excellent, and the performances outstanding due to excellent musicianship by those session musicians. But I recently saw a Japanese remaster, circa January 2012, too. I'm wondering if anyone has any idea as to which has the superior sound. I'm looking for the best possible version of Toto IV on digital disc (read: as opposed to vinyl). Any tips? Thanks in advance.
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