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post #61 of 71 Unread 07-28-2015, 10:09 AM
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I'm not sure about Dolby, but I know on my Yamaha AVR, the 7.1 stereo DSP doesn't share the center with the mains, it uses the material that is common to both mains for the center. Since in music vocals are almost always recorded mono dead center, this effectively splits the vocals to the center channel, which is exactly what you would want it to do.

This essentially replaces the "phantom center" with a true center, so you can put your mains further apart than 8 feet and get a physically wider soundstage.
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post #62 of 71 Unread 07-28-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sworth View Post
I'm not sure about Dolby, but I know on my Yamaha AVR, the 7.1 stereo DSP doesn't share the center with the mains, it uses the material that is common to both mains for the center. Since in music vocals are almost always recorded mono dead center, this effectively splits the vocals to the center channel, which is exactly what you would want it to do.

This essentially replaces the "phantom center" with a true center, so you can put your mains further apart than 8 feet and get a physically wider soundstage.
I don't know what "7.1 stereo DSP" means.

PL IIx Movie will use active matrix processing to remove content that is balanced in both channels (virtual or encoded center) to the center speaker. PL IIx Music will use active matrix processing to direct virtual or encoded center content to the center speaker, but will leave it in the sides, based on the Center Width setting. The greater the Width value, the louder the center content is on the sides.

Default on my Yamaha receivers has been 3, and this sounds fine for musical content. I reduce it to 2 as I use PL II Music for movies in which I do want virtual or encoded center content coming primarily from the center speaker, but want a little reinforcement from the sides. This results in a minimal "phantom center" effect which sounds like voices and other center channel content are coming from an area wider than just my center channel. During dialog-only sequences on-screen, this has a really easily detected effect.

This is why I prefer that discs with mono soundtracks are encoded in DD 2-channel (2.0), so that I can use Movie or Music to set the virtual width of the audio to my tastes. When a disc is encoded DD 1.0, my Yamaha has no easy way to perform a "phantom center" effect other than the 2ch Stereo mode which just puts the audio in Left and Right. (Suggestions for workarounds welcome.)

No, I hardly use Yamaha's CinemaDSP programs. The Mono Movie is just plain weird until I turn down all the reverb values.

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post #63 of 71 Unread 07-29-2015, 09:06 AM
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"7.1 Stereo" is Yamaha's DSP for converting 2 channel to multichannel. It's MUCH better than the Dolby and DTS equivalents, especially for music.
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post #64 of 71 Unread 07-29-2015, 03:13 PM
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It would be a lot less confusing if the studios would just list the older 5.1 mixes which actualy have mono surrounds, as 4.1 this way an average listener would be able to select PLIIX Music rather than Movie.
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post #65 of 71 Unread 07-29-2015, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sworth View Post
"7.1 Stereo" is Yamaha's DSP for converting 2 channel to multichannel. It's MUCH better than the Dolby and DTS equivalents, especially for music.
What model d'ya have? Think you're referring to "7ch stereo." Maybe I'm mistaken.

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It would be a lot less confusing if the studios would just list the older 5.1 mixes which actualy have mono surrounds, as 4.1 this way an average listener would be able to select PLIIX Music rather than Movie.
Sometimes happens, e.g. SEX LIES AND VIDEOTAPE DVD (4.0), some of the Criterion Toho releases that were in Perspecta Stereo IIRC.

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post #66 of 71 Unread Yesterday, 10:47 AM
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what model d'ya have?
rx-v671
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post #67 of 71 Unread Yesterday, 11:03 AM
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Yep, that's 7ch Stereo mode you're thinking of. P. 44 of your manual. It's only "7.1" if you have speakers set to SMALL, enabling bass management. Otherwise the sub is silent (AFAIK).

It may sound better than Dolby PL II(x) to you, but it's very different processing. It down-mixes (if necessary) any content to stereo, then outputs to all speakers. So, all content from the Left and Right channels are directed to the surround speakers.

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V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

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post #68 of 71 Unread Yesterday, 11:42 AM
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I have the rears just set to fill lightly. The thing I like about the Yamaha DSP is the way it uses the center channel. It does a fantastic job of synthesizing a real center out of the phantom center. That is important in my system because I have a ten foot screen, and the mains are about 16 feet apart. Without a proper center, the stereo spread drops in the center. I have the Yamaha DSP adjusted so the left to right soundstage is absolutely perfect. The soundstage is the same as a regular two channel spread, but instead of being 8 feet across, it's double the size. This takes the scale of the soundstage up to a natural size... much more like what the size of an orchestra from the best seat, or a jazz combo in front of you at a club would sound like.
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post #69 of 71 Unread Yesterday, 12:26 PM
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I'm skeptical the 7ch Stereo is "synthesizing a real center" from left and right. All my listening indicates that left and right are combined in the center channel. Just confirmed with a sound effects track (DD 5.1) of Monsters Inc, a sound normally on the extreme left is played in the center with 7ch Stereo.

If you want to "synthesize" a center, that's what Dolby PL processing does. I realize you like what you hear, but I'm not sure that's what the AVR is doing.

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post #70 of 71 Unread Yesterday, 04:41 PM
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An equal mix of left and right to the center would result in a muddled soundstage. The Yamaha DSP pulls the material common to both channels for the center... basically the mono elements in the mix. If you take a traditional pop vocal album recorded in stereo, say Ella Fitzgerald or Sinatra, the vocals will predominate in the center, because they were usually recorded mono and mixed right into the center of the soundstage. There is a little bit of spill from left and right, but if you stand in front of the center, center is what you hear. Check it and see for yourself.

Last edited by sworth; Yesterday at 04:45 PM.
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post #71 of 71 Unread Today, 07:40 AM
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I have checked and posted results above.

“Say, was you ever bit by a dead bee?”
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550.

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