Decoding HD-DTS and D TrueHD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 67 Old 12-06-2011, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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My HT receiver is HDMI 1.1. It does not decode TruHD or HD-DTS, but it will accept a 24/192 LPCM from HDMI.

So in general do Blu-ray players decode the Dolby Tru-HD and/or HD-DTS and be abe to output 24/192 LPCM via HDMI to my HDMI1.1 input receiver. Or would I only get the hirez audio with blu-ray discs that have a 24/192-96 LPCM track (which I understand are rare.)

Also if I wanted to play a blu-ray from my computer which has an HD6850 with HDMI out would it be possible to have the computer decode the HD-DTS/TureHD and output hirez LPCM (as opposed to bitstreaming.) ?

Finally these blue-ray players that have ethernet, could I play the BluRay disc on my computer thru the ethernet and have the player do the decoding to HDMI hirez LPCM for my old HT receiver?
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post #2 of 67 Old 12-06-2011, 09:00 AM
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The vast majority of BD titles are 24/48.
The majority of *current* BD players are able to decode all lossless formats to LPCM. Whether it's 24/48 or something else depends on the original track.

Whether your video card can output high-res audio over HDMI depends on the card, and the software in use. Consult the HTPC forums.

Via Ethernet, you need a player that is DNLA capable and supports playback of files with lossless audio and HD video. This is a completely separate discussion, and not for the technically challenged.
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post #3 of 67 Old 12-06-2011, 05:20 PM
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Apart from the PS3, no standalone BDPs that I know can decode dts-HD MA 5.1 24/192 fully to PCM 5.1 24/192, but can only downsample to 24/96.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #4 of 67 Old 12-06-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Apart from the PS3, no standalone BDPs that I know can decode dts-HD MA 5.1 24/192 fully to PCM 5.1 24/192, .

The Oppo BD players all do this.
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post #5 of 67 Old 12-07-2011, 07:37 AM
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According to blu-raystats.com, there are two 5.1 24/192 releases - one TrueHD (Akira) and one dts-MA (Percy Grainger/Kristiansand Symfoniorkester: Grieg - Piano Concerto). Doesn't seem like much of an issue.
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post #6 of 67 Old 12-07-2011, 08:20 AM
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Nearly all of the BD releases from 2L offer 5.1 24/192 LPCM plus either THD or DTS-MA. A couple offer all 3.
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post #7 of 67 Old 12-07-2011, 05:55 PM
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93 Manual Oct 2011 p.65 Audio Signal Reference Chart

When "Secondary Audio" is set to "Off".

Source Format: DTS-HD MA
HDMI Output LPCM: up to 96kHz 24-bit 7.1 or 192kHz 24-bit 2-ch <-----------

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #8 of 67 Old 12-08-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

93 Manual Oct 2011 p.65 Audio Signal Reference Chart

When "Secondary Audio" is set to "Off".

Source Format: DTS-HD MA
HDMI Output LPCM: up to 96kHz 24-bit 7.1 or 192kHz 24-bit 2-ch <-----------

Just to clarify: The DTS decoder specs mandate 24/94 maximum from any decoder licensed as "DTS Essential". That includes virtually all BD players.
The Oppo is fully capable and outputs 24/192 from any other source, and 24/96 from DTS-MA.

To the OP: also be aware that your AVR will probably not be able to apply DSP or decoders to 24/192 LPCM. It might be limited to 24/48 or possibly 24/96 for applying the full range of DSP/decoders and even EQ and bass management. Consult your manual or the appropriate AVR thread for that model.
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post #9 of 67 Old 12-08-2011, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Just to clarify: The DTS decoder specs mandate 24/94 maximum from any decoder licensed as "DTS Essential". That includes virtually all BD players.

As far as I know, Sony, Samsung, and LG use full DTS-HD decoders, not Master Audio Essential.
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post #10 of 67 Old 12-08-2011, 05:56 PM
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Whatever the reasons or excuse, the statement in post #4 is simply not true as it stands and should be retracted, and until someone comes up with credible proof to the contrary my statement in post #3 still stands. Some time ago I took this up with Lindberg from 2L and he was made aware of player's (including Oppo's) limitation. No good trying to hide it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The Oppo BD players all do this.


Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #11 of 67 Old 01-06-2012, 05:18 PM
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Is there a stand alone unit that does something similar to this.


I am looking to send DD/DTS from my source (Mac Mini) to to my receiver, and have the DTS/DD decoded to LPCM and sent out HDMI. I currently own an Onkyo 708. I called them to ask if it had this feature, but no one could tell me.

I own a Smyth Realiser. I can send mine back to have the new HDMI input installed, but want to make sire I can make use of it. It only accepts LPCM over HDMI. I know the PS3 does that, but I need it to work with everything. I currently have no way to test this with my equipment. If my Receiver will work please let me know, and if not please let me know the cheapest solution that will.

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post #12 of 67 Old 01-06-2012, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruBrew View Post

Is there a stand alone unit that does something similar to this.


I am looking to send DD/DTS from my source (Mac Mini) to to my receiver, and have the DTS/DD decoded to LPCM and sent out HDMI. I currently own an Onkyo 708. I called them to ask if it had this feature, but no one could tell me.

I own a Smyth Realiser. I can send mine back to have the new HDMI input installed, but want to make sire I can make use of it. It only accepts LPCM over HDMI. I know the PS3 does that, but I need it to work with everything. I currently have no way to test this with my equipment. If my Receiver will work please let me know, and if not please let me know the cheapest solution that will.

I've seen some low budget units on ebay but I wouldn't say buyer beware by the looks of them. The issue is frustrating to say the least.

I think the best answer if you have an old hdmi1.1 receiver is to setup your computer to do the decoding and use it as your blu-ray, I believe it is definately possible with the hdmav1.3 and possibly the ati hd68xx cards. I haven't had time to research fully but trust Killian is right about this. At this point I'd rather spend a 100 hours setting up my htpc to decode the hdformats faithfully than trust opps's marketing specs.
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post #13 of 67 Old 01-08-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

According to blu-raystats.com, there are two 5.1 24/192 releases - one TrueHD (Akira) and one dts-MA (Percy Grainger/Kristiansand Symfoniorkester: Grieg - Piano Concerto). Doesn't seem like much of an issue.

amazon shows the Grieg/Grainger piano concerto at ~$28 which includes a SACD disc as well as Blu Ray Audio disc.

amazon also shows a sampler by 2L at ~$29; again including both Blu Ray Audio & SACD discs; see http://www.amazon.com/2L-Nordic-Audi..._bxgy_m_text_c

Not being familiar with the Grieg/Grainger piano concerto piece (and not seeing a cheap CD of it), I ordered the 2L sampler.

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post #14 of 67 Old 01-08-2012, 08:41 PM
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^^^
All of the 2L BD releases have 24/192 audio available. Some in DTHD, some in DTS-MA and some in LPCM. Most have more than one option, and some also have a JAVA gizmo that allows you to upload high-res files to a network connected PC.
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post #15 of 67 Old 01-08-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

^^^
All of the 2L BD releases have 24/192 audio available. Some in DTHD, some in DTS-MA and some in LPCM. Most have more than one option, and some also have a JAVA gizmo that allows you to upload high-res files to a network connected PC.

When you say all, how many is that?
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post #16 of 67 Old 01-09-2012, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

When you say all, how many is that?

http://www.mamut.net/lindberglyd/shop/
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post #17 of 67 Old 01-09-2012, 09:55 PM
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Not 'all'. Flute Mystery is 24/96.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #18 of 67 Old 01-10-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

^^^
All of the 2L BD releases have 24/192 audio available. Some in DTHD, some in DTS-MA and some in LPCM. Most have more than one option, and some also have a JAVA gizmo that allows you to upload high-res files to a network connected PC.

I got my 2L sampler today; of the two discs in it, the SACD/CD hybrid disc is excellent.

For "JAVA gizmo" needs, I assume that one needs a blu-ray player in one's PC in order to have that option for the blu-ray disc that is also included?

Meaning kindly provide more info on "JAVA gizmo". Thank you in advance.

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post #19 of 67 Old 01-10-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

I got my 2L sampler today; of the two discs in it, the SACD/CD hybrid disc is excellent.

For "JAVA gizmo" needs, I assume that one needs a blu-ray player in one's PC in order to have that option for the blu-ray disc that is also included?

Meaning kindly provide more info on "JAVA gizmo". Thank you in advance.

It's called "+mShuttle". It only requires that your set top blu-ray player be BD-Live enabled and network connected. You ping the player from your PC by IP address and it opens the disc on your PC. You upload stereo high-res files and album art to the PC. I don't know if it's a 2L exclusive or what, but it works slick. Only a few of the newer releases have it.
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post #20 of 67 Old 01-11-2012, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It's called "+mShuttle". It only requires that your set top blu-ray player be BD-Live enabled and network connected. You ping the player from your PC by IP address and it opens the disc on your PC. You upload stereo high-res files and album art to the PC. I don't know if it's a 2L exclusive or what, but it works slick. Only a few of the newer releases have it.

Interesting.

And yes, my set top blu-ray player has BD-Live.

Would you please name a 2L music "album" that has two discs (both blu-ray and hybrid SACD) that has this feature.

Preferably a 2L album that is sold by amazon and has good user reviews on amazon. Thank you in advance.

FWIW I so far have 2 of these 2L music albums, but neither seems to have the feature that you mention.

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post #21 of 67 Old 01-11-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Would you please name a 2L music "album" that has two discs (both blu-ray and hybrid SACD) that has this feature.

It's listed as a feature at the 2L site on those titles that have it.

"HarmOrgan"
"Kind"
"HIMMELKVAD" (not yet released)
"TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE - in folk style"
"OLE BULL Violin Concertos"
"Veslemøy synsk"
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post #22 of 67 Old 01-12-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It's listed as a feature at the 2L site on those titles that have it.

"HarmOrgan"
"Kind"
"HIMMELKVAD" (not yet released)
"TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE - in folk style"
"OLE BULL Violin Concertos"
"Veslemøy synsk"

Thank you for that.

FWIW I ordered two of the above via amazon.

Expensive; roughly $50 total for the two titles that I ordered.

If these discs (i.e. the blu-ray disc (the SACD discs are still hopeless for moving digital sound to PC)) actually allow me to move a hi-rez bit-perfect copy to my PC HDD, I'll become a customer.

I'm not holding my breath, but willing to try it for $50.

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post #23 of 67 Old 01-12-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Thank you for that.

FWIW I ordered two of the above via amazon.

Expensive; roughly $50 total for the two titles that I ordered.

If these discs (i.e. the blu-ray disc (the SACD discs are still hopeless for moving digital sound to PC)) actually allow me to move a hi-rez bit-perfect copy to my PC HDD, I'll become a customer.

I'm not holding my breath, but willing to try it for $50.

What you are allowed to upload is STEREO files and cover art. It varies from title to title depending on what the disc authors decide to drop into the "ROM_DATA" folder. I have one with WAV at 16/44, FLAC at 24/96 and MP3 (44.1) at 320k. If you have decryption software running on PC you can just open the folder and take what you want.
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post #24 of 67 Old 01-12-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

If these discs (i.e. the blu-ray disc (the SACD discs are still hopeless for moving digital sound to PC)) actually allow me to move a hi-rez bit-perfect copy to my PC HDD, I'll become a customer.

I'm not holding my breath, but willing to try it for $50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

What you are allowed to upload is STEREO files and cover art. It varies from title to title depending on what the disc authors decide to drop into the "ROM_DATA" folder. I have one with WAV at 16/44, FLAC at 24/96 and MP3 (44.1) at 320k. If you have decryption software running on PC you can just open the folder and take what you want.

Stereo only (I could care less about cover art) is a bit of disappointment.

I'll have to think about that for awhile. Maybe being able to xfer stereo FLAC 24/96 to my PC will be an adequate excuse to spend top dollar for combo albums (both blu-ray and hybrid SACD discs) like these.

For hi-rez stereo, my limited experience is that 24/96 FLAC makes the most sense in that it takes up less HDD space than still higher rez bit rates. If I ever do create a set of hi-rez stereo files on my HDD, it will be 24/96 FLAC. But switching all of the stuff in Win7 to properly play 16/44.1 stereo vs 24/96 stereo is a drag!

FWIW the two 2L music combo albums I've gotten and listened to in 5.1 are the sampler and TRONDHEIMSOLISTENE. Excellent 5.1 sound and the performances are also excellent.

I'm looking forward to the next two albums and what they'll offer in terms of being able to xfer the digital sound to my PC.

The key thing that I've decided is that I'm *never* going to pay/download hi-rez stereo or 5.1 music without having a disc, from any of the on-line companies now offering this.

Meaning that I'm lousy at keeping records, and having a physical disc is my proof of being legal.

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post #25 of 67 Old 01-13-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post



The key thing that I've decided is that I'm *never* going to pay/download hi-rez stereo or 5.1 music without having a disc, from any of the on-line companies now offering this.

Meaning that I'm lousy at keeping records, and having a physical disc is my proof of being legal.

If THEY want to get you, THEY will (like on some technicality) regardless of what YOU consider the legal proof. So do not worry that much and get downloads. If you already have BD or SACD grab the content and convert to FLAC or whatever is convenient for you, and be happy.
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post #26 of 67 Old 01-13-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

If THEY want to get you, THEY will (like on some technicality) regardless of what YOU consider the legal proof. So do not worry that much and get downloads. If you already have BD or SACD grab the content and convert to FLAC or whatever is convenient for you, and be happy.

+1. +mShuttle is part of the newer "Pure Audio" BD specs, and really just boils down to some authoring tricks. +mShuttle is a convenience feature, just one route to an end result. There are plenty of ways to skin that cat.
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post #27 of 67 Old 01-26-2012, 03:32 PM
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To rdgrimes (and ap1?): I need some help on how to connect the blu-ray player to my PC.

e.g. The key questions are:

1. finding the internet address of the blu-ray player (I think I've got this OK)

2. setting up the browser on my PC to correctly use this internet address

Specifically what do I choose for network settings: no proxy settings, or use system proxy, or auto-detect proxy, or manual proxy?

You mentioned "ping" - do you mean to forget using a browser and open a Windows DOS box and at the prompt run: > ping ip-address (of the player)

3. do I connect the player *directly* (via ethernet cable) to the personal computer?

FWIW the 2L site is without merit for practical info on how to actually use mshuttle for a bit perfect xfer of the music to my PC.

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post #28 of 67 Old 01-26-2012, 08:59 PM
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If both devices are on the local network, just open a browser window on the PC and type in the IP of the player. The disc must be loaded in the player with the mShuttle function displayed, and BD-Live must be on in the player, then do the browser trick.
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post #29 of 67 Old 01-26-2012, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

If both devices are on the local network, just open a browser window on the PC and type in the IP of the player. The disc must be loaded in the player with the mShuttle function displayed, and BD-Live must be on in the player, then do the browser trick.

OK, I'm back to reading the manual.

Option 1: Maybe I need a "SD card" for the player? I hope it isn't this coz I don't have one (SD card) on hand. But if it is, then how do I get the music data file from the SD card to the PC?

Option 2: Or maybe I don't need that, but rather to have the PC connected to *both* the Internet and also to the BD player at the same time?

I *hate* hit or miss stuff like this. I also sent an e-mail to 2L.

Just by chance, I now have broadband internet and my active machine at the moment has two ethernet connectors on the back panel, so I'll try this 2nd option tomorrow. Meaning I'll activate the 2nd ethernet connector, plug the BD player into that, and hope that that will allow it to work. i.e. check if/how that changes setup options for network within the player setup options.

Even if this does make it work, it's still a pricey way to get hi-rez music from a disc to one's PC.

The worrisome chance is that maybe is another nosebleed form of copy protection. Meaning that the player manual hints at this with:

<"o BD-Live Internet Access may need to be changed for certain discs

o When discs supporting BD-Live are played back, the player or disc IDs
may be sent to the content provider via the Internet.">

And:

<"BD-Live Internet Access
o You can restrict Internet access when BD-Live functions are used.

o If Allow (Limited) is selected, Internet access is permitted
only for BD-Live contents which have content owner certificates.">

Which hints to me that I won't be able to put these files on my PC without having some live internet blessing from 2L every time I want to listen to the file?

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post #30 of 67 Old 01-26-2012, 11:46 PM
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When you connect a sd card to a pc through a reader, it will just look like an additional hard drive when you open My Computer. Simple matter of drag and drop or cut/paste.
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