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post #1 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if this belongs under this catagory or not but I was wondering if anyone has bought any of these? I've seen them listed on E-Bay and they are quite expensive. Most are shipped from Japan or Hong Kong. Any opinions on these or regular SHM CD? If I recall right the SACD's are only stereo mix. Is there any improvement from SHM CD vs conventional CD? They do have some good titles on these.
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post #2 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 07:31 AM
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Some of them are made from different masters than other releases. But others are not. You need to find reviews before you decide to buy. But generally they are not worth the asked price.
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post #3 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 05:58 PM
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I agree with ap1 in that you should check reviews before buying. I also agree that SHM-SACDs are not worth the cost. I have a few SHM-SACDs and I am not overly impressed with the SQ. My opinion might be based on the fact that I feel there is no reason for the costs to be so high. The other factor is all SHM-SACDs are only 2CH so no Multichannel mix. But some feel the SQ is good on some titles which is fine. I just feel that if you are looking at a specific SHM-SACD title do some research. There could be a RBCD version that sounds just as good if not better.

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post #4 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 06:02 PM
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If you where fortunate enough to have purchased the original SACD title(s) back in the day when they were affordable, it would most likely not be enough of an audio improvement to purchase the SHM SACD version.
If you don't own the original title(s) then the SHM version is another consideration.
I personally own quite a few SHM SACD's and I don't regret buying any of them, even though they are quite spendy.
Sure I wish they were 5.1 instead of stereo and were about half the price but that unfortunately isn't the case.
Personally speaking I have found the SHM SACD audio quality to be very good and a nice addition to my SACD collection.
Like with anything it's all subjective. You need to check out the reveiws and decide for yourself.
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post #5 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJHXBR View Post

I personally own quite a few SHM SACD's and I don't regret buying any of them, even though they are quite spendy.
Sure I wish they were 5.1 instead of stereo and were about half the price but that unfortunately isn't the case.
Personally speaking I have found the SHM SACD audio quality to be very good and a nice addition to my SACD collection.
Like with anything it's all subjective. You need to check out the reveiws and decide for yourself.

I agree with the above. I've enjoyed the Who's Next, Dire Straits self-titled, and Cream SHM-SACDs.
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post #6 of 77 Old 01-13-2012, 07:58 PM
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First off fireprix, welcome to this forum.
Yes, you are in the right place and you asked an excellent question.
FWIW, I have only 2 SHM-CDs and 2 SHM-SACDs.

I concur with everything above, plus I have a criteria for buying SHM-SACDs.

1. Do I already have this recording in Hi-Res? No. See 2.
2. How much do I like the music? A lot. See 3.
3. Are there any other Hi-Res releases out I like more? No. See 4.
4. What do I know about this version? Enough to buy? Yes. See 5.
5. How flush do I feel? Flush. See 6.
6. Buy from cdjapan.

The packaging on SHM-SACDs is high-end Japanese. Really nice.
$60 a whack w\\shipping is steep so you better like the music, imo.

 

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post #7 of 77 Old 01-14-2012, 06:47 AM
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I much prefer to have my favorite titles in Hi-Rez if at all possible. But does the fact that a title is in Hi-Rez mean that the SQ is going to be better than a good RBCD copy of the same title? The first SHM-SACD title I bought was Steely Dan's Aja. This is one of my all time favorite albums and I was looking forward to listening to the Aja SHM-SACD. Well unfortunately the SQ of Aja SHM-SACD was not very impressive IMO. I compared it to a copy of the 1999 remastered RBCD version and preferred the remastered version. To be honest I wasn't too happy that I spent $60.00 for a disc that IMO did not sound as good as one I bought for $10.00.

I then when on to buy the Dire Straits S/T and the Who's Next SHM-SACDs as they were very well reviewed. I found these titles to have better SQ but nothing compared to the SQ of some of the 2CH SACDs I own. When the Dire Straits' Love Over Gold SHM-SACD was released I wanted to buy it right away. But after reading a number of reviews of this title I decided not to as the reviews were quite divided. Some said the SQ was good while others remarked that some of the RBCD copies they owned sounded just as good if not better. Love Over Gold is probably my favorite album of all time but I wasn't going to shell out $60.00 for average SQ just because it was on SACD.

I hope no one takes offense to my thoughts as I respect the fact that many buy SHM-SACDs and enjoy them very much. It is the cost that I just do not see as justified when you can buy multichannel SACDs for under $20.00. So if one can buy MCH SACDs under $20.00 it shows to me that the process of making 2CH SACDs shouldn't cost $60.00. I'm not sure of the advantage of the SHM process in terms of overall SQ or the cost. But I tend to believe it doesn't justify such high costs.

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post #8 of 77 Old 01-14-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireprix View Post

Not sure if this belongs under this catagory or not but I was wondering if anyone has bought any of these? I've seen them listed on E-Bay and they are quite expensive. Most are shipped from Japan or Hong Kong. Any opinions on these or regular SHM CD? If I recall right the SACD's are only stereo mix. Is there any improvement from SHM CD vs conventional CD? They do have some good titles on these.

Best to look at the science (or lack of it) relating to the SMH process. There may be some *small* advantage to the SMH pressing process for redbook CDs, but there is absolutely no justification for claims of improved "quality" for SACD. It's nothing more than an improved methodology for creating stampers and discs. It is a very expensive process, hence the higher prices.

None of the SMH releases use new masters or transfers, they all use existing masters. Some of them may not have been released on SACD before, which *could* make them collectable. But don't go looking for any improvements in audio quality based on the SMH process, it's just not there.
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post #9 of 77 Old 01-14-2012, 09:41 AM
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See Step 4 in my loose criteria list.
Of the 2 SHM-SACDs I have, one is better than the other CD versions I have, the other is a wash.

 

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post #10 of 77 Old 01-14-2012, 11:32 AM
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Where are most of you buying the quality sacd's from?
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post #11 of 77 Old 01-17-2012, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info. I have a small collection of SACD's and DVD Audios. I started buying them around 2001 when I first saw them. The first one I bought was Stone Temple Pilots Core before I even had a DVD Audio player. I thought it sounded awesome just in Dolby Digital and soon after bought a Pioneer SACD DVD Audio player. I bought most of them at Best Buy and there used to be a store called Media Play that had a very good selection. I was sad to see these formats begin to die off. If you have an FYE store sometimes they will mix in SACD's with regular CDs. I once saw DSoTM SACD priced the same as a regular CD. I already have that or I would have snapped it up.


I agree that I wouldn't buy an SHM SACD if I already had the same title on SACD or DVD Audio. They also market SHM CDs and I was wondering if there is any difference in sound quality vs regular CDs?
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post #12 of 77 Old 01-17-2012, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Where are most of you buying the quality sacd's from?

What do you consider a "quality" SACD?

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post #13 of 77 Old 01-17-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
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What do you consider a "quality" SACD?

Bill

Sacd and DVD-A bill
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post #14 of 77 Old 01-17-2012, 04:33 PM
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Sacd and DVD-A bill

Definitely not the "new and improved" AudiogoN .

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post #15 of 77 Old 01-17-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Sacd and DVD-A bill

Hmmmm that covers a lot of ground.

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post #16 of 77 Old 07-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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I received today Black Sabbath's Heaven And Hell SHM-SACD and what a flop, I paid around 60 $ (I live in Spain, import fees are high for non-EEC goods) for a disc that is sourced from a copy of the master and sounds dull and lifeless.
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post #17 of 77 Old 07-13-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieVanHalen View Post

I received today Black Sabbath's Heaven And Hell SHM-SACD and what a flop, I paid around 60 $ (I live in Spain, import fees are high for non-EEC goods) for a disc that is sourced from a copy of the master and sounds dull and lifeless.

Once again I would not waste $50-60 on anymore SHM-SACDs rolleyes.gif. As much as I would love to have Dire Straits Love Over Gold on SACD I just can't do it. Can someone explain to me why a 2CH only SACD that is not OOP costs $50-60? Please don't say its the "SHM" process wink.gif.

Bill

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post #18 of 77 Old 07-13-2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Can someone explain to me why a 2CH only SACD that is not OOP costs $50-60?

Bill-what's that famous P.T. Barnum saying? biggrin.gif

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post #19 of 77 Old 07-14-2012, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
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Bill-what's that famous P.T. Barnum saying? biggrin.gif

Steve,

I believe you are correct wink.gif. I own two SHM-SACDs (Who's Next and Dire Straits S/T) and had Steely Dan's Aja (sold it). None of them overly impressed me when compared to some of the RBCD copies of the same discs I own. I did extensive comparisons between the Aja SHM-SACD, MFSL CD and the 1999 remastered version ($10). Between the three I preferred the 1999 remastered version. The Dire Straits S/T SHM-SACD does not sound any better than the West German Vertigo version I bought for $10. The Who's Next SHM-SACD sounds no better than the RBCD I have that is mastered by the Steve Hoffman. So with this experience I am definitely not a fan of SHM-SACDs. This being due to the high prices and the possibility that the SQ is no better than a $10 RBCD version. I have become a big fan of Bill Evans and there are quite a few SHM-SACDs of his albums. But I refuse to pay $50-60 for them.

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post #20 of 77 Old 07-14-2012, 06:46 AM
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I have 4 Stevie Wonder SACD SHM. I agree the prices are too high but it is the only source of high-rez for the titles I purchased. I am not overjoyed wih the purchase but would say I am pleased.

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post #21 of 77 Old 07-14-2012, 08:08 AM
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I have 4 Stevie Wonder SACD SHM. I agree the prices are too high but it is the only source of high-rez for the titles I purchased. I am not overjoyed wih the purchase but would say I am pleased.

I felt the same way as far as having the desire to have Aja, Who's Next, Dire Straits and many more titles in Hi-Rez. I'm big on SACD and DVD-A whether it be in 2CH or MCH for the added SQ improvement of Hi-Rez. But there are many titles in 2CH on SACD and DVD-A that you can find RBCDs that sound just as good and sometimes better. I have found this out after joining the Steve Hoffman forum. The SH Forum is an excellent guide for just about any title out there. Since joining the SH forum I have received quite an education in music and the recording process. I have just scratched the surface but before I invest in any SACD, DVD-A or RBCD I do a search for that specific title to find out what could possibly be the best version. Anyone that is really interested in music and getting the most out of it should join the SH Forum IMO.

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post #22 of 77 Old 07-16-2012, 12:46 AM
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I had wanted to sample the sound of SHM-SACD ever since the format was created but the first titles just did not interest me. I followed threads about SQ and indeed, reviews have varied. The first and only SHM-SACD that was to my liking and had great reviews was Ommadawn by Mike Oldfield so I ordered that one. It sounds absolutely wonderful. The reason behind it may be the fact that the original English analogue tapes were used for the production. I am very happy to have it. Tubular Bells got also released in the SHM-SACD format and has similarly great reviews, but since I have the hybrid MCH SACD of it, which sounds perfect to me, I have no intention of paying the high price of the SHM-SACD version. So, always do your research on SQ before you decide to buy, as suggested by others here. BTW I use ebay extensively for obtaining SACDs.
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post #23 of 77 Old 07-16-2012, 06:46 PM
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There are several SHM-SACDs that are easily the definitive version of the respective album. Both of the Mike Oldfield SHM-SACDs are stunning and must-buys if one likes the artist at all. Traffic's John Barleycorn Must Die is also excellent, as are most of the Who's albums on SHM-SACDs. There are a number of clunkers, but it pays to read reviews and get multiple opinions on a disc before purchase.
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post #24 of 77 Old 08-23-2012, 07:55 PM
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While I agree that the SH forums have a great deal of info, like most internet forums there's a lot of outright BS posted, plus multi-hundred page threads about The Monkees(?!).
I would add another SHM-SACD recommendation and that is Exile on Main Street. A really good deal considering that it was a double-album and it is by far the best version of this recording I've heard.
I also own a few SHM-CDs that sound better than the redbook versions.
As always buy carefully. wink.gif

 

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post #25 of 77 Old 08-24-2012, 09:29 AM
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While I agree that the SH forums have a great deal of info, like most internet forums there's a lot of outright BS posted, plus multi-hundred page threads about The Monkees(?!)

I find the above interesting. If you think about don't most A/V forums have a lot of BS and multi page threads about stuff that one might not be interested in? In that case you just focus on the stuff that is of interest to you. Thats what I do over at the SH forum and have enjoyed the forum very much smile.gif. I have also seen mention that the SH forum moves too quickly. In other words threads can go 3-4 pages deep in a few hours. That is true and is a sign that the SH forum is very active and has a lot of members. I still believe that if one is a big fan of music and different formats that are used that the SH forum is an excellent forum. By the way I have a soft spot in my heart for The Monkees seeing them back in 1967 was my first ever concert wink.gif. But to be quite honest I have no interest in them at this time. So I just skip over those threads.

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post #26 of 77 Old 08-24-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I find the above interesting. If you think about don't most A/V forums have a lot of BS and multi page threads about stuff that one might not be interested in? In that case you just focus on the stuff that is of interest to you. Thats what I do over at the SH forum and have enjoyed the forum very much smile.gif. I have also seen mention that the SH forum moves too quickly. In other words threads can go 3-4 pages deep in a few hours. That is true and is a sign that the SH forum is very active and has a lot of members. I still believe that if one is a big fan of music and different formats that are used that the SH forum is an excellent forum. By the way I have a soft spot in my heart for The Monkees seeing them back in 1967 was my first ever concert wink.gif. But to be quite honest I have no interest in them at this time. So I just skip over those threads.
Bill


Yeah, those guys are passionate over there. In fact I got involved in a Monkees vs. Kiss brawl a few months ago biggrin.gif! That is the place to go if you are serious about music. If you are able to wade through the BS, you can learn a lot.


To keep this on thread, I have

Beggars Banquet
Exile On Main Street
Sticky Fingers

SHM-SACD's and I consider them to be serious sonic upgrades of anything else I've heard. But there's very few other albums I'd put that much money on.
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post #27 of 77 Old 08-24-2012, 05:27 PM
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Yeah, those guys are passionate over there. In fact I got involved in a Monkees vs. Kiss brawl a few months ago biggrin.gif! That is the place to go if you are serious about music. If you are able to wade through the BS, you can learn a lot.
To keep this on thread, I have
Beggars Banquet
Exile On Main Street
Sticky Fingers
SHM-SACD's and I consider them to be serious sonic upgrades of anything else I've heard. But there's very few other albums I'd put that much money on.

I believe you will find passionate members here at AVS as well and just as much BS. Kiss vs. The Monkees now that could get ugly wink.gif. I have read that those three Stones SHM-SACDs are among the best digital versions of those titles. Its too bad the SQ consistency of the SHM-SACDs was not more uniform. I'd love to buy DS's Love Over Gold SHM-SACD but the reviews have been mixed. So I'm not dropping $50 or more to have a disc that might not sound better than the other versions I have.

Bill

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post #28 of 77 Old 08-25-2012, 08:29 AM
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I agree totally about SH, Bill. A Monkees vs. Kiss thread? That would be stunningly pointless, imo;)

Just got 3 SHM-SACDs:

Sticky Fingers - Man the recordings on this disc vary wildly. A lot of distortion that seems confined to the vocals on certain songs.
Other songs are really nice. The material and performances carry the day on this one. No regrets.

The Who Sell Out - was a bit wary of this one but no more. Sounds as good as I think it can and a very good recording given the time frame.
A couple of uneven tunes but worth it for Mary Ann with the Shakey Hands alone. Highly recommended for Who fans.

Fairport Convention Liege & Lief Haven't listened enough yet will provide update tomorrow.

Every Picture Tells A Story SHM-CD Absolutely great sounding and a dics that is part of the basic repertoire.
Another nice thing is seems cheap compared to the sacds!

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #29 of 77 Old 05-20-2013, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post


Best to look at the science (or lack of it) relating to the SMH process. There may be some *small* advantage to the SMH pressing process for redbook CDs, but there is absolutely no justification for claims of improved "quality" for SACD. It's nothing more than an improved methodology for creating stampers and discs. It is a very expensive process, hence the higher prices.


None of the SMH releases use new masters or transfers, they all use existing masters. Some of them may not have been released on SACD before, which *could* make them collectable. But don't go looking for any improvements in audio quality based on the SMH process, it's just not there.

Absolutely true.
It is all marketing BS in the exact same way so-called "BluSpec CD" is.
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post #30 of 77 Old 05-23-2013, 10:28 AM
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Wow, I can't believe I completely missed this format.

So what do you guys think of the Black Sabbath offerings in SHM-SACD, are they better then the standard CD's? I see the following are available:

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Vol. 4
Master of Reality

I all ready own Vol. 4 on standard CD, I have the disc for a long time but do not own a CD copy of the other 2, only cassette eek.gif

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