Which Is The True Statement? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 06-26-2012, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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1) LFE (.1 channel) equals the sum of FL + FR @~120Hz and under,

OR:

2) LFE (.1 channel) is it's own unique bass channel and the track is NOT contained in or duplicated from the front mains.

????? Anyone?

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post #2 of 21 Old 06-26-2012, 08:24 PM
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2

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post #3 of 21 Old 06-26-2012, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

2

How sure are you?

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post #4 of 21 Old 06-26-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

1) LFE (.1 channel) equals the sum of FL + FR @~120Hz and under,
OR:
2) LFE (.1 channel) is it's own unique bass channel and the track is NOT contained in or duplicated from the front mains.
????? Anyone?

The .1 LFE channel is a discrete low frequency channel in, and of itself. Add in bass management with any of the satellite speakers (LCR & surrounds) set to small, and the LFE channel also plays any low frequency content that is below the crossover frequency for those channels.

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post #5 of 21 Old 06-26-2012, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

LFE channel also plays any low frequency content that is below the crossover frequency for those channels.

THAT, I knew. So, I guess I have to buy another receiver (because Denon screwed up the latest firmware for mine) and I can no longer mix the sub with a stereo input (2.1). Damn! I could shoot those azzholes!

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post #6 of 21 Old 06-27-2012, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

1) LFE (.1 channel) equals the sum of FL + FR @~120Hz and under,
OR:
2) LFE (.1 channel) is it's own unique bass channel and the track is NOT contained in or duplicated from the front mains.
????? Anyone?

Statement 1 is incorrect.

Statement 2 is correct some of the time.


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post #7 of 21 Old 06-27-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

..... and the LFE channel also plays any low frequency content that is below the crossover frequency for those channels.

You are confusing the terms but you are not alone as most/many AVR manufacturers do that, too. The LFE channel, per se, does not contain rerouted LF from the other channels. 

 

The output from the AVR (or processor) is correctly labeled as "subwoofer" (not LFE) because it can supply (1) just LFE information, (2) just LF content from the other channels (e.g., if you are playing a CD) or (3) both.  


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post #8 of 21 Old 06-27-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

You are confusing the terms but you are not alone as most/many AVR manufacturers do that, too. The LFE channel, per se, does not contain rerouted LF from the other channels. 

The output from the AVR (or processor) is correctly labeled as "subwoofer" (not LFE) because it can supply (1) just LFE information, (2) just LF content from the other channels (e.g., if you are playing a CD) or (3) both.  

Yep, the semantics can trip a guy up. I thought that saying "Add in bass management with any of the satellite speakers (LCR & surrounds) set to small, and the LFE channel also plays any low frequency content that is below the crossover frequency for those channels." made it clear that the rerouted LF signals were then added to the subwoofer channel, but I can see that the LFE term should be limited to the discrete channel information. Thanks for clearing up the terminology KAL smile.gif!

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post #9 of 21 Old 06-27-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

THAT, I knew. So, I guess I have to buy another receiver (because Denon screwed up the latest firmware for mine) and I can no longer mix the sub with a stereo input (2.1). Damn! I could shoot those azzholes!

Are you saying that the newer firmware will not allow bass management with stereo sources? Did you try to set it up with a stereo input? Sometimes firmware installs reset things to a default state, and require resetting specific parameters.

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post #10 of 21 Old 06-30-2012, 09:45 AM
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.1 is a discrete channel, but this does not preclude the possibility that any of the other channels also contain low frequency information.

As Kal already made clear, the question of how low frequency is mixed in the x.1 mix is separate from the question how this low frequency is being displayed. The latter depends on the availability of a subwoofer and the speaker size and crossover as set in the receiver.

So 1 is just plain wrong and 2 is mostly correct, but if the sound engineers decided to mix LF info (duplicated from the .1 or not) into any other channel, it'll be there.
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-30-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

THAT, I knew. So, I guess I have to buy another receiver (because Denon screwed up the latest firmware for mine) and I can no longer mix the sub with a stereo input (2.1). Damn! I could shoot those azzholes!

Are you sure about that? Isn't there a setting in the GUI in 2 channel playback where you can select LFE + Mains?
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-02-2012, 02:46 AM
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They are both true some of the tiem, but MOST of the time, 2 is true, and 1 is false. It depends on the tech. being utilized.
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-03-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicklemarr View Post

They are both true some of the tiem, but MOST of the time, 2 is true, and 1 is false. It depends on the tech. being utilized.
....or # 2 is software/content true and #1 can be bass management setup true. Although with bass management it may be more correctly called sub woofer out with or without LFE.biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-03-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

LFE channel also plays any low frequency content that is below the crossover frequency for those channels.

THAT, I knew. So, I guess I have to buy another receiver (because Denon screwed up the latest firmware for mine) and I can no longer mix the sub with a stereo input (2.1). Damn! I could shoot those azzholes!

Double check that you haven't accidentally enabled "pure direct" or the equivalent.

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post #15 of 21 Old 07-04-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPotato69 View Post

THAT, I knew. So, I guess I have to buy another receiver (because Denon screwed up the latest firmware for mine) and I can no longer mix the sub with a stereo input (2.1). Damn! I could shoot those azzholes!

Are you sure about that? Isn't there a setting in the GUI in 2 channel playback where you can select LFE + Mains?
Yes, that sounds right. A friend bought a new Denon receiver and was futzing with the settings and was complaining he couldn't get the sub to play with the 2 L/R speakers. I asked him to bring up the menus and we then found that setting and it fixed his problem.

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post #16 of 21 Old 07-04-2012, 09:05 AM
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Bear in mind that LFE+Mains normally means that you're getting excessive bass in the frequency range where the sub and the main speakers overlap. This might or might not be a problem depending on your listening preferences.

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post #17 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Yes, that sounds right. A friend bought a new Denon receiver and was futzing with the settings and was complaining he couldn't get the sub to play with the 2 L/R speakers. I asked him to bring up the menus and we then found that setting and it fixed his problem.
larry

I fixed the problem after reading BatPig's Denon to English Dictionary. I needed to set the mains to "small" (which sets ALL the speakers to "small"!), then turn on LFE + Main, then set the speakers all back to "Large" and the setting stuck! YAY! smile.gif Denon really did mess up the latest firmware! Now that the 3311CI is two models behind, I doubt they'll ever fix it! mad.gif

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post #18 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 10:27 AM
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there is nothing wrong with the firmware on your unit...

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post #19 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

there is nothing wrong with the firmware on your unit...

Oh REALLY! Before the "upgrade", I could switch from LFE to LFE + Main and back, easily. Now I have to go through this headache. Nothing wrong?? I beg to differ.

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post #20 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 12:57 PM
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It's not a bug. With the speakers set to large the sub isn't supposed to do the low on the mains.

If you want your sub to kick in set them to small.
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not gonna argue. What's the point? I know how it worked before. I know how messed up it is now. I own it, you don't. It was WAY better before the latest firmware, WHICH CANNOT BE UNDONE without sending it in.

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