SACD only playing 44.1 khz? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-28-2012, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm confused as to why my sacd's are only playing back in 44.1. THey do play in 5.1 but they all seem to be 44.1 and not high res. What the heck could be causing this issue. I haven't lost my mind SACD's are high res right. Genesis - Genesis album and Billy Joel album with only the good die young on it. Have I lost it?

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post #2 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 12:07 AM
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I can't tell from your list what SACD player you have.

You haven't lost it but you've missed it. There are two known possibilities both well documented.

1. Some players downsample DSD to 44.1kHz when decimating to PCM. Well documented in some Denon BDP threads.

2. Some AVRs notably Onkyo display 44.1 fs (NOTE: not kHz) when receiving DSD stream - it's all been queried, discussed and answered many times on AVS. Search old Oppo threads, other SACD threads and posts I replied to.

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post #3 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 01:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea I have an Onkyo 809 so it is playing high res it's just displaying 44.1fs then? Strange I swear my old onkyo displayed it normally. The 809 is getting DSD the display picks it up as DSD.

Checked it displays fs: 44.1 khz

I have a Pioneer DV-48AV I used for playback of SACD. I just don't remember it every just displaying 44.1 , but I've also not had this receiver for huge amount of time either. Maybe I never checked it before although I'm certain I did. So it's working fine and doing actual high res or is it down converting or something.

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post #4 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 06:39 AM
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If the AVR is receiving DSD, it is converting it to PCM. It's an open question whether the AVR is sampling the DSD at 44, 88 or what.
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 07:39 AM
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Pioneer should be able to send DSD stream. In that case Onkyo display usually shows DSD 2.0 or 5.1. IF it shows PCM 44.1, than that is what player sends. Look at Pioneer manual for a clue how to set it up properly for SACD playback.
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 07:39 AM
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Pioneer should be able to send DSD stream. In that case Onkyo display usually shows DSD 2.0 or 5.1. IF it shows PCM 44.1, than that is what player sends. Look at Pioneer manual for a clue how to set it up properly for SACD playback.
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 07:57 AM
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I had a similar problem with my Pioneer DV-49AV--it wouldn't stream DSD to the receiver properly. But then I discovered I had to have my TV on for that to work properly. Don't know why I have to, but when I have the TV on the player streams DSD to my receiver as it should. And I'm doing this over HDMI.

If your player streams DSD over HDMI, you might want to have your TV on, just in case. Makes little sense, I know, but if it works...

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post #8 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea tv is always on. Another little known tip. Not only does it have to be on. It has to be on a HD res video output wise or it doesn't work either. But maybe that's just the case for dvd-audio. Which works fine in proper rates. It's only now I noticed it saying 44.1 khz.

Yea it is showing DSD but when I look deeper in the display menu it shows 44.1. I did find thread discussing this anyway yea not entirely pleased with this non sense. Guess that's what happens when you go from receiver that can do Direct DSD to whatever the hell this one is doing.

If I do pcm on player side it then outputs 88.2 for the rate according to the Onkyo display.

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post #9 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 09:02 AM
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In order for any player to send 5.1 DSD or LPCM audio over HDMI, the video must be set to 720p or better.

In this case it might be better to let the player decode DSD to PCM to avoid any question about what the AVR is doing.
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess really what my bigger question was that I didn't ask is , what is actually on SACD's audio rate wise. Are they all 5.1 24 bit 96khz or some other rate. I just was shocked to be seeing cd's rate of 44.1

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post #11 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

I guess really what my bigger question was that I didn't ask is , what is actually on SACD's audio rate wise. Are they all 5.1 24 bit 96khz or some other rate. I just was shocked to be seeing cd's rate of 44.1

What's on an SACD is DSD, which has no bit depth. Technically it's 1 bit at a sample rate of 350 KHz or thereabout. It's a multiple of 44.1, which is why DSD generally gets converted to 24/88.2.
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-29-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

Yea I have an Onkyo 809 so it is playing high res it's just displaying 44.1fs then? Strange I swear my old onkyo displayed it normally. The 809 is getting DSD the display picks it up as DSD.
Checked it displays fs: 44.1 khz
I have a Pioneer DV-48AV I used for playback of SACD. I just don't remember it every just displaying 44.1 , but I've also not had this receiver for huge amount of time either. Maybe I never checked it before although I'm certain I did. So it's working fine and doing actual high res or is it down converting or something.

I also have the Onkyo 809, along with an Oppo BDP-83 universal player. I just checked the display while playing a SACD, and yes it does display DSD, 2.0, 44.1. I used to have a Yamaha RX-V1800, which I thought was supposed to have DSD-direct, and the Onkyo sounds superior to me.

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post #13 of 14 Old 06-30-2012, 01:40 AM
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Look, you guys are over-interpreting and over-reacting to this. The Oppo 980 thread has the quote from HDMI 1.2 spec which has been repeated many times here and elsewhere. The HDMI 1.3 spec, says clearly in plain English:

Section 7.2.4
...For any L-PCM stream, the ACR fS value shall be equal to the audio sample rate....

Section 7.2.5
For any One Bit Audio stream, the ACR fS value shall be 1/64th of the bit rate. For One Bit Audio data from Super Audio CD (2.8224MHz) the ACR fS would therefore be 44.1kHz.

It's just the way different audio streams are handled. There's no downsampling, because the 44.1kHz displayed isn't in LPCM, but just a numerical representation as laid down by the spec. Do not keep dwelling on a non-issue.
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Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #14 of 14 Old 06-30-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Look, you guys are over-interpreting and over-reacting to this. The Oppo 980 thread has the quote from HDMI 1.2 spec which has been repeated many times here and elsewhere. The HDMI 1.3 spec, says clearly in plain English:
Section 7.2.4
...For any L-PCM stream, the ACR fS value shall be equal to the audio sample rate....
Section 7.2.5
For any One Bit Audio stream, the ACR fS value shall be 1/64th of the bit rate. For One Bit Audio data from Super Audio CD (2.8224MHz) the ACR fS would therefore be 44.1kHz.
It's just the way different audio streams are handled. There's no downsampling, because the 44.1kHz displayed isn't in LPCM, but just a numerical representation as laid down by the spec. Do not keep dwelling on a non-issue.

Cool! Thanks for that info.

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