Pioneer DV610AV-S - good budget SACD/DVD-A player? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 08-21-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Any other recommendations in the $100-200 price range? It will connect to my Yamaha V673, so as long as it has HDMI output, all the SACD/DVD-A decoding will be done by the receiver.

One thing I like about the Pioneer is that it has play/pause/ff/rew buttons on the front so I can navigate CDs and other music without a remote. CD playback on my bluray is fine, but navigation is a pain.

Any other suggestions in this price range? I'd love to get a universal blu ray player and have everything in one box, but the price difference is too high at this point, especially since my current blu ray player is otherwise perfectly fine for my needs.

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post #2 of 10 Old 08-21-2012, 12:46 PM
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Should work fine, but you might also look for an older used Oppo, like the 980.

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post #3 of 10 Old 08-21-2012, 01:44 PM
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If you want a new player,for the money, the Pio can't be beat. Only issue I've had are the Rush Sector boxset DVD-As...the Pio won't read the Hi-Res layer.
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post #4 of 10 Old 08-26-2012, 12:06 AM
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Hello all - first post on the forum. I came here looking for an SACD/DVD-A + HDMI solution.

I recently bought an Onkyo TX-NR609 which has the convenience of 4 HDMI slots (my previous receiver had NONE!). My current SACD/DVD-A player (an older Pio) was built before HDMI was all the rage. So just double checking - with the DV610AV-S I'll be able to play multichannel high-res through just the HDMI outputs? (Because for roughly $100, that is music to my ears.)

P.S. I'm a wannabe audiophile - I love multichannel and high res, but I'm terrible with things like "all the technical details".
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post #5 of 10 Old 08-26-2012, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTDwarf View Post

So just double checking - with the DV610AV-S I'll be able to play multichannel high-res through just the HDMI outputs? ".

Hi Carlos. I have a Pio DV600AV and since I got my Marantz SR7001 AV receiver I have only been using the HDMI connection between the player and amp allowing the direct mch DSD stream come through the HDMI wire. The DSD decoding to analogue signal is done within the amp. You have to access the player's setup and choose direct DSD stream in the output setup ( I think it is called Auto DSD in the home menu)
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post #6 of 10 Old 08-26-2012, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTDwarf View Post

Hello all - first post on the forum. I came here looking for an SACD/DVD-A + HDMI solution.

I recently bought an Onkyo TX-NR609 which has the convenience of 4 HDMI slots (my previous receiver had NONE!). My current SACD/DVD-A player (an older Pio) was built before HDMI was all the rage. So just double checking - with the DV610AV-S I'll be able to play multichannel high-res through just the HDMI outputs? (Because for roughly $100, that is music to my ears.)
P.S. I'm a wannabe audiophile - I love multichannel and high res, but I'm terrible with things like "all the technical details".

The NR609 will decode DSD multi-channel audio over HDMI, but it apparently only decodes the DSD stream at CD quality - check out the review below. Bummer. I wouldn't let it stop you from checking out SACD/DVD-A, though, especially for the $100 that this player will run, since you still get nice sounding multi-channel audio. Way cheaper than buying a new receiver and a $500 Oppo, only to find you can't hear the difference smile.gif Still, it's good to keep in mind that an upgraded AVR with full DSD decoding over HDMI or dedicated 5.1 analog inputs will give you better results with the same components.

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/av-receivers/39-av-reviews/270-onkyo-tx-nr609.html?showall=1

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post #7 of 10 Old 08-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD NC View Post


The NR609 will decode DSD multi-channel audio over HDMI, but it apparently only decodes the DSD stream at CD quality...

Finally someone bothers to test this.smile.gif Hardly a surprise given that some players downsample DSD to PCM 44.1kHz. Often people assume sending DSD to AVR guarantees full bandwidth response. I've said it before (here for example) that DSD decoding in AVRs is largely uncharted territory esp. when PCM decimation is involved.

The review does not make it clear, from a scientific vigour point of view, the following so no firm conclusion can be drawn.

1. Does the SACD tested actually have signal above 22kHz? Some SACDs are derived from 44.1kHz PCM or possibly a filter was applied during recording so it's important to verify this on equipment capable of 50kHz FR or higher, or a player that sends PCM at 88.2kHz or 176.4kHz.

2. Is the limited FR to 22kHz due to DSD-PCM decimation, or bandwidth filter? We are told that sending 24/192 PCM from BD can reach 55kHz so the latter is unlikely. A player that sends PCM 88.2kHz or better, 176.4kHz from DSD to AVR should avoid any AVR limitation.

3. (related to above) Is the measurement done with AVR doing DSD-PCM decimation internally (using bass management for example) or direct DSD-analogue conversion?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #8 of 10 Old 08-26-2012, 11:28 PM
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Thanks for your responses all! It is kind of a bummer that I won't get the high audio quality with the DV610 and my current receiver, but as JD NC noted - $100 is a pretty good price for a multi-channel player. And quite honestly, with a 4 year old in the house, I don't get to crank it quite as loud as I used to. I think this will be a good solution until I get my next, more powerful receiver. smile.gif
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post #9 of 10 Old 08-27-2012, 12:38 AM
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You don't HAVE to send DSD from the player: let the player 'convert' to PCM first. Send PCM 88.2kHz from the Pioneer to the Onkyo and it should remain at that resolution.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #10 of 10 Old 08-27-2012, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Finally someone bothers to test this.smile.gif Hardly a surprise given that some players downsample DSD to PCM 44.1kHz. Often people assume sending DSD to AVR guarantees full bandwidth response. I've said it before (here for example) that DSD decoding in AVRs is largely uncharted territory esp. when PCM decimation is involved.
The review does not make it clear, from a scientific vigour point of view, the following so no firm conclusion can be drawn.
1. Does the SACD tested actually have signal above 22kHz? Some SACDs are derived from 44.1kHz PCM or possibly a filter was applied during recording so it's important to verify this on equipment capable of 50kHz FR or higher, or a player that sends PCM at 88.2kHz or 176.4kHz.
2. Is the limited FR to 22kHz due to DSD-PCM decimation, or bandwidth filter? We are told that sending 24/192 PCM from BD can reach 55kHz so the latter is unlikely. A player that sends PCM 88.2kHz or better, 176.4kHz from DSD to AVR should avoid any AVR limitation.
3. (related to above) Is the measurement done with AVR doing DSD-PCM decimation internally (using bass management for example) or direct DSD-analogue conversion?

The article wasn't clear on the test SACD specs, but here's what they said:

"On-board are 24/192 Digital-to-Analogue convertors on each channel, and those with SACD collections will be pleased to hear that the '609 recognises and decodes DSD fed in through an HDMI cable. You'll need the Cambridge 650BD Blu-ray player that I use to do this, however, or an Oppo player like the BDP-83 (both also play DVD-A). The bad news is that although you'll get surround-sound from SACD, it reaches CD quality standards our tests showed, limited by internal DSD-to-PCM conversion. The more expensive Onkyos manage better."

The article doesn't discuss Kilian.ca's solution, either, but it looks like that's a good solution, since the player is capable of outputting a full bandwidth 5.1 PCM stream over HDMI.

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