DSD from my computer - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 Old 09-12-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'm new to the lossless audio and DSD music so forgive my naive questions but I am looking to start building a music collection of DSD from streaming audio sites. I am guessing my computer will not output lossless audio from a digital coaxial output to my reciever? What computer do I need or what connection? This is going to a Rotel tuner, emotiva then 802N. Thanks for any help.
alanhenson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 09-12-2013, 04:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Its not generally possible to output a DSD stream from a PC. HDMI would be the only connect capable. Your best option is to access DSD files directly from network connected playback devices. Very few support DSD files, Oppo being one.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #3 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 04:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

I'm new to the lossless audio ...I am guessing my computer will not output lossless audio from a digital coaxial output to my receiver?.....This is going to a Rotel tuner, emotiva then 802N....

Just to add to what rdgrimes said, S/PDIF (digital coaxial or optical) doesn't support multi-channel lossless audio at all. You best bet may be to transcode to LPCM and send through HDMI. You can output muli-channel lossless over USB or a WiFi connection (is 802n your WiFi connection?).


Also your hookup chain doesn't make sense since there is no way to send audio (other than radio waves) into a tuner.
William is offline  
post #4 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Sorry meant Rotel processor. I was referring to 802 Nautilus B&W speakers. So there's no computers or fancy sound cards I can buy for my computer that can output it through hdmi to my tuner? I was going to get an oppo blue ray if that helps. Sorry again. Just new to this. How are others doing it?
alanhenson is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Its not generally possible to output a DSD stream from a PC. HDMI would be the only connect capable. Your best option is to access DSD files directly from network connected playback devices. Very few support DSD files, Oppo being one.
which oppo device fits this?
alanhenson is offline  
post #6 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 08:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

which oppo device fits this?

Any Oppo player can output a DSD stream via HDMI, or convert it to LPCM and output that via HDMI.

Your processor needs the capability of accepting DSD over HDMI. However, any processor must convert DSD to LPCM in order to apply any digital processing like bass management, EQ, etc. So it makes little difference if you send DSD or LPCM to the processor in most cases. If you are working with stereo signals, some processors offer a direct DSD->analog pathway with no processing. The Oppo players also offer direct DSD->analog conversion via their analog outputs and internal DAC. So you have options to play with and can choose what works best for you.

Only the Oppo BDP-103 and BDP-105 can play DSD files directly, either from attached storage or via SMB network sharing. Previous players can play SACD-R discs, the 103/105 cannot. Any Oppo player supports SACD discs and DVD-A.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #7 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Any Oppo player can output a DSD stream via HDMI, or convert it to LPCM and output that via HDMI.

Your processor needs the capability of accepting DSD over HDMI. However, any processor must convert DSD to LPCM in order to apply any digital processing like bass management, EQ, etc. So it makes little difference if you send DSD or LPCM to the processor in most cases. If you are working with stereo signals, some processors offer a direct DSD->analog pathway with no processing. The Oppo players also offer direct DSD->analog conversion via their analog outputs and internal DAC. So you have options to play with and can choose what works best for you.

Only the Oppo BDP-103 and BDP-105 can play DSD files directly, either from attached storage or via SMB network sharing. Previous players can play SACD-R discs, the 103/105 cannot. Any Oppo player supports SACD discs and DVD-A.
Thanks so much for that great explanation. I am getting the 105 soon. My processor is the Rotel 1069 though which is a few years old so it might not work. Good excuse for a new one. I'm thinking about new rotel or emotiva. Any thoughts on those?
alanhenson is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
Patrick Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Nokomis, Fl. USA
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Limited as DSD files are, I'm considering Oppo's 103, going straight in to my 2 powered Meridians with coax. But in your case, adding a high quality stereo power amp to those great B&W 802s, you might consider the Marantz NA-11S1. It's a high end streamer (about $3500) and 2 channel preamp that happens emphasize it's DSD capabilities along with it's exceptional DAC. It's best served with a USB input. For your computer, the latest versions of J River Media Center support DSD. BTW I had my computer built with an SP/dif coax out connector in anticipation of things like this. One caveat, I think JRMC transcodes DSD files to PCM. At this level you might be able to hear the difference.

Patrick
Patrick Collins is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 11:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

Thanks so much for that great explanation. I am getting the 105 soon. My processor is the Rotel 1069 though which is a few years old so it might not work. Good excuse for a new one. I'm thinking about new rotel or emotiva. Any thoughts on those?

If you require analog connects from the player, the BDP-105 is worthy. If you intend to get a new processor with HDMI inputs, the BDP-103 is a more appropriate choice.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #10 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

If you require analog connects from the player, the BDP-105 is worthy. If you intend to get a new processor with HDMI inputs, the BDP-103 is a more appropriate choice.
is that really the only difference between the 105 & 103.
alanhenson is offline  
post #11 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 02:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

is that really the only difference between the 105 & 103.

Yes, they are identical except for the analog board. They even use the same firmware.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #12 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Wow a $700 difference for that? And HDMI will do everything the analog will do won't it?
alanhenson is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 09-13-2013, 08:29 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rdgrimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Posts: 16,001
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

Wow a $700 difference for that? And HDMI will do everything the analog will do won't it?

Its a VERY extensive and well built analog board which includes digital (SPDIF) input and USB-DAC input as well as dedicated stereo outs and headphone amp. $700 is cheap. But yes, if you can use HDMI then the 103 is all you need.
rdgrimes is online now  
post #14 of 34 Old 09-15-2013, 11:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
acebreathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No Plfd NJ
Posts: 828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

Sorry meant Rotel processor. I was referring to 802 Nautilus B&W speakers. So there's no computers or fancy sound cards I can buy for my computer that can output it through hdmi to my tuner? I was going to get an oppo blue ray if that helps. Sorry again. Just new to this. How are others doing it?
Take a look at www.audiostream.com. They have compiled a lot of useful info on everything relating to DSD.
acebreathe is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 09-15-2013, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
oOOBillO0o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the move..
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Addition to Audiostream's portal, PS3 can play DSD via DSD Discs and best played via the Multi AV Analog. See Korg Audiogate for DSDDisc creation.

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
oOOBillO0o is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 09-15-2013, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by oOOBillO0o View Post

Addition to Audiostream's portal, PS3 can play DSD via DSD Discs and best played via the Multi AV Analog. See Korg Audiogate for DSDDisc creation.

A PS3 is much more likely have inferior analog circuitry (and D/A converters) than the OP's Rotel processor. So I would only use HDMI on the PS3. If going analog out you should have a quality source like the OPPO BDP-105.
William is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 09-15-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by acebreathe View Post

Take a look at www.audiostream.com. They have compiled a lot of useful info on everything relating to DSD.
thanks man

Quote:
Originally Posted by oOOBillO0o View Post

Addition to Audiostream's portal, PS3 can play DSD via DSD Discs and best played via the Multi AV Analog. See Korg Audiogate for DSDDisc creation.
We don't allow video games in the house or I'd be all over it.
alanhenson is offline  
post #18 of 34 Old 09-15-2013, 01:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
oOOBillO0o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the move..
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

A PS3 is much more likely have inferior analog circuitry (and D/A converters) than the OP's Rotel processor. So I would only use HDMI on the PS3. If going analog out you should have a quality source like the OPPO BDP-105.

Sure, that's logical, but is it true.. ??

Side note: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
oOOBillO0o is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 07:31 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,820
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1032
Quote:
Originally Posted by oOOBillO0o View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

A PS3 is much more likely have inferior analog circuitry (and D/A converters) than the OP's Rotel processor. So I would only use HDMI on the PS3. If going analog out you should have a quality source like the OPPO BDP-105.

Sure, that's logical, but is it true.. ??

Side note: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html

Interesting set of results. They show excellent performance for the equipment being tested.

What nobody is doing is bringing in what is known about the thresholds of human hearing for noise and distortion. Draw a line across every test at -100 dB, and would be an unconditional and highly conservative statement of the ear's capability, well beyond what can be observed in actual listening tests of a professional grade.

I can't find any online full technical tests of the PS/3 and its chip complement is mostly proprietary chips so it is hard to figure out what its actual performance is. However the idea that a high end DVD player like the BDP 105 outperforms it seems to me to be likely.
arnyk is online now  
post #20 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So the Oppo 105 says it supports DSD. Can I just plug y computers USB into the Oppo and play the files straight from there?
alanhenson is offline  
post #21 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 08:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 13,820
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)
Liked: 1032
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

So the Oppo 105 says it supports DSD. Can I just plug y computers USB into the Oppo and play the files straight from there?

What about post #6?
arnyk is online now  
post #22 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yeah I guess that answers it. I guess I was just concerned about my computer not having an HDMI output but it seems only the Sony VAIO has the capacity to output DSD from an HDMI in that case. I guess USB will carry the file to the Oppo unchanged.
alanhenson is offline  
post #23 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 08:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
oOOBillO0o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the move..
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
http://schiit.com/products/loki

If it hasn't been shared, this is the $149 entry point into DSD from your computer.

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
oOOBillO0o is offline  
post #24 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Holy Schiit that looks cool. Sorry, had to.
alanhenson is offline  
post #25 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alanhenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
That would make this stereo only and not 5.1?
alanhenson is offline  
post #26 of 34 Old 09-16-2013, 10:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
oOOBillO0o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the move..
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Sorry, no 5.1 -

I feel the entire company's sense of humor lies in it's naming convention. Schiit nailed it.

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
oOOBillO0o is offline  
post #27 of 34 Old 02-03-2014, 10:16 PM
Member
 
harri009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am up to about 1300 albums on DSD so I would say I am firmly planted at this point!! smile.gif
harri009 is offline  
post #28 of 34 Old 02-03-2014, 11:33 PM
Member
 
HomerJau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Melbourne, AU
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by harri009 View Post

I am up to about 1300 albums on DSD so I would say I am firmly planted at this point!! smile.gif

You can always convert to 24bit PCM as WAV or FLACs to escape that smile.gif
HomerJau is offline  
post #29 of 34 Old 02-03-2014, 11:37 PM
Member
 
harri009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Not something I am trying to escape. I am quite happy with the sound.
harri009 is offline  
post #30 of 34 Old 02-04-2014, 01:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by harri009 View Post

I am up to about 1300 albums on DSD so I would say I am firmly planted at this point!! smile.gif
Jeez... That's a huge number. How many GB/TB is that lot?

I SUPPORT 'FAIR USE'. MY MORALS PREVENT ME FROM HELPING ANYONE WHO OBTAINS COPYRIGHTED CONTENT ILLEGITIMATELY
I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout and A/V Gear
SeeMoreDigital is online now  
Reply Surround Music Formats

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off