Genesis albums to be released on Pure Audio Blu-ray - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 12-22-2013, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Submitted without commentary, an excerpt from Genesis News Com article, "Genesis albums to be released on Pure Audio Blu-ray":

In 2014, Universal will rerelease all Genesis albums on the Pure Audio Blu-ray format. Each Blu-ray will contain the music only, there are no visual extras.

sebtp-bluray.jpg

I'll be 1 because 2, but 4 5 buying this I may wonder, where is 7? In the 8?
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post #2 of 42 Old 12-22-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

Submitted without commentary, an excerpt from I'll be 1 because 2, but 4 5 buying this I may wonder, where is 7? In the 8?

Huh?

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post #3 of 42 Old 12-24-2013, 04:29 AM
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Huh?

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....and 3 before 6 except 9 too.confused.gifbiggrin.gif

In reality just looks like a repackaging in a different format of the SA-CD release Masters. So looks like nothing new.
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post #4 of 42 Old 12-24-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

....and 3 before 6 except 9 too.confused.gifbiggrin.gif

In reality just looks like a repackaging in a different format of the SA-CD release Masters. So looks like nothing new.

Not only nothing new, but even less content than given originally.
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post #5 of 42 Old 12-27-2013, 03:55 PM
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You'd hope that considering the complaints about the Genesis SACD's, they'd fix the damn things. But that's not the case with the HFPA. Nothing will be changed. It's garbage in, garbage out. What is the target audience for these things? Too many people have already stopped buying physical media so it's mostly audiophiles. The majority of audiophiles have already panned the existing SACD's. The Japanese are already saturated with SHM so that leaves many of them out. That leaves the rest of us who aren't already buying the Japanese releases. A very small market. Sadly, most of us Genesis freaks would stupidly pay more money if they were fixed, but they won't be.

Sort of a Catch-22. Isn't it? rolleyes.gif
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post #6 of 42 Old 12-29-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

You'd hope that considering the complaints about the Genesis SACD's, they'd fix the damn things. But that's not the case with the HFPA. Nothing will be changed. It's garbage in, garbage out. What is the target audience for these things? Too many people have already stopped buying physical media so it's mostly audiophiles. The majority of audiophiles have already panned the existing SACD's. The Japanese are already saturated with SHM so that leaves many of them out. That leaves the rest of us who aren't already buying the Japanese releases. A very small market. Sadly, most of us Genesis freaks would stupidly pay more money if they were fixed, but they won't be.

Sort of a Catch-22. Isn't it? rolleyes.gif

Are you referring to the 2007 remasters?  If so, what are the complaints about them?  I enjoy them thoroughly but I'd like to know what it is about them I'm supposed to dislike lol!


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post #7 of 42 Old 01-02-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cfgenesis View Post

Are you referring to the 2007 remasters?  If so, what are the complaints about them?  I enjoy them thoroughly but I'd like to know what it is about them I'm supposed to dislike lol!


If you like them, enjoy them. That's all the matters. I've got all 5 boxes. IMO, they are sad losers of the loudness wars. The stereo versions are compressed and shrill sounding beyond the limits of human endurance. In fact, I haven't been able to listen to the stereo versions all the way through. The only redeeming quality is the surround versions. They are tolerable but even then I can't listen to more than one at a time.

Do a google search. I'm far from the only one who feels this way.
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post #8 of 42 Old 01-02-2014, 03:53 PM
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If you like them, enjoy them. That's all the matters. I've got all 5 boxes. IMO, they are sad losers of the loudness wars. The stereo versions are compressed and shrill sounding beyond the limits of human endurance. In fact, I haven't been able to listen to the stereo versions all the way through. The only redeeming quality is the surround versions. They are tolerable but even then I can't listen to more than one at a time.

Do a google search. I'm far from the only one who feels this way.

I'm not doubting you, I've heard that people have been critical of them.  I have not listened to the stereo versions - the attraction was the DTS surrounds so when I am at home I listen to them that way and enjoy them.


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post #9 of 42 Old 01-02-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cfgenesis View Post

I'm not doubting you, I've heard that people have been critical of them.  I have not listened to the stereo versions - the attraction was the DTS surrounds so when I am at home I listen to them that way and enjoy them.



The surrounds and the video content are the only redeeming qualities. At least there are enough other stereo versions out there. smile.gif Still, no digital version can has come close to the vinyl.
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post #10 of 42 Old 01-10-2014, 04:36 PM
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Some sellers have canceled pre-orders of this. Seems to be common with a number of HFPA releases. If you must have it, look for the SACD.
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post #11 of 42 Old 01-11-2014, 02:31 AM
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^^ Strange, I just place my pre-order on Burning Shed this am. And they generally are pretty plugged in. For an album dropping on the 20th, they should know by now if the date is solid or not.

As a massive Genesis freak myself, this will be my seventh copy of SEBTP I purchase in my lifetime, and I'm getting this one in the meager hopes that it's a flat-transfer of the 2007 master mutlitrack.

I too have the SACD box sets, and was disappointed at the not only what seems to be mastering compression, but downright bad EQ on the high end. I have very revealing electrostats (MartinLogan Monoliths) and I also can only listen to one SACD at a time from that set.
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-11-2014, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

I'm getting this one in the meager hopes that it's a flat-transfer of the 2007 master mutlitrack.

I hope the mastering is better than the SACD which I really don't mind. But given the track record of the previous HFPA releases I doubt the SEBTP disc will have new mastering.

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post #13 of 42 Old 01-12-2014, 04:26 AM
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Bill, just to double check terminology here, I think we all agree it will the same 2007 mix (2 or 5.1 final mix by Nick Davis) but the question is: will they use the same Master as the SACD set?

Does HFPA just grab the existing Masters and lay them out on the BR releases?

Or do they do the right thing (like Steven Wilson does) and grab the final Mix and do a "flat-transfer" (no EQ, no compression) of that mix to the new output format?

Enemy number one in my book are the stupid mastering engineers who crank up the compression and screw with EQ until masterpieces become un-listenable on decent systems so they might sound OK on some car radio. Hate them and the producers who demand this silliness.
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post #14 of 42 Old 01-12-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Bill, just to double check terminology here, I think we all agree it will the same 2007 mix (2 or 5.1 final mix by Nick Davis) but the question is: will they use the same Master as the SACD set?

Does HFPA just grab the existing Masters and lay them out on the BR releases?

Or do they do the right thing (like Steven Wilson does) and grab the final Mix and do a "flat-transfer" (no EQ, no compression) of that mix to the new output format?

Enemy number one in my book are the stupid mastering engineers who crank up the compression and screw with EQ until masterpieces become un-listenable on decent systems so they might sound OK on some car radio. Hate them and the producers who demand this silliness.

Jon,

I think we are on the same page terminology wise smile.gif. From reading over at the Steve Hoffman forum I got the impression that many of the HFPA titles released are using the same mastering of previous releases. So I'm not to optimistic that any Genesis HFPA releases will have mastering that will be any different than the 2007 SACDs. I won't be buying any HFPA titles unless I read that specific titles have been remastered and the SQ is excellent. I'm trying to not buy any music unless there are reviews available.

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post #15 of 42 Old 01-12-2014, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

^^ Strange, I just place my pre-order on Burning Shed this am. And they generally are pretty plugged in. For an album dropping on the 20th, they should know by now if the date is solid or not.

As a massive Genesis freak myself, this will be my seventh copy of SEBTP I purchase in my lifetime, and I'm getting this one in the meager hopes that it's a flat-transfer of the 2007 master mutlitrack.

I too have the SACD box sets, and was disappointed at the not only what seems to be mastering compression, but downright bad EQ on the high end. I have very revealing electrostats (MartinLogan Monoliths) and I also can only listen to one SACD at a time from that set.



I saw BS was still taking pre-orders, while Amazon UK had canceled them. There seems to be a lot of fudging on the release dates of many of the HFPA BD's, not just this one. In fact the entire rollout of these discs has been erratic, to say the least. I'd probably wait until after a particular release comes out before I ordered it.
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post #16 of 42 Old 01-13-2014, 06:38 AM
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In the link below from a post over at the SH Forum it shows a listing for the SEBTP HFPA with a 2008 digital remastering date. The SEBTP SACD was released in 2007 so it would have a mastering date of 2007. So what would the 2008 mastering be? Most likely the 2008 date is incorrect but it doesn't look like this disc will have a new mastering. At least it gives those that didn't get a chance to grab the SACD a chance to have SEBTP in hi-res surround.

UMe prepping Blu-ray Audio titles for Europe (pt2)

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post #17 of 42 Old 01-22-2014, 12:29 PM
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The copy I ordered from BurningShed just arrived.

All the copyrights are from 2007, and Nick Davis is listed as the mixing engineer and Tony Cousins as the remastering engineer.

I'll spin it this evening and compare to the SACD I also have.

Keeping fingers crossed for a flat-transfer here.
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post #18 of 42 Old 01-22-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

The copy I ordered from BurningShed just arrived.

All the copyrights are from 2007, and Nick Davis is listed as the mixing engineer and Tony Cousins as the remastering engineer.

I'll spin it this evening and compare to the SACD I also have.

Keeping fingers crossed for a flat-transfer here.




Reports over at SHF say it's the same as the SACD. Having Nick Davis's name on it should remove all doubts.
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post #19 of 42 Old 01-26-2014, 05:27 AM
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Finally got some focused time with this recording and did a comparison with the SACD edition I also have.

First, the BluRay is nicely put together, and behaves like an audio disc starting to play the first track (in 2ch PCM) as soon as it loads. It has a single menu listing the tracks and listing the available audio editions, which are:

  • 2 Ch PCM (24/96)
  • 2 Ch DTS-MA HD (24/96)
  • 5.1 PCM (24/96)
  • 5.1 DTS-MA HD (24/96)


I did my testing with the mutichannel tracks, as that's what I primarily listen to. I even enlisted the spouse to help provide some more objectivity (she did not know what format was playing each time I switched).

The mix is definitely the 2007 re-master set, as the channel placements and levels are identical. There is 3dB or so level variance between the output of the SACD and the BR discs, so that made comparisons difficult, as I had to swap the discs, then change the level (and was checking with an SPL meter).

Bottom line: pretty much the same content.

Although we did have a preference for the DTS-MA edition. But I think that has more to do with how I feed the processor. When bitstreaming, the decoding is done in the Pre-amp, and it's jitter-free. Whereas the SACD is decoded to PCM in the Oppo 103 and sent over HDMI with no audio-clock sync.
I'd have to try using my Denon 2930 player and use DenonLink to play the SACD to get a better comparison.

So I'm happy to have it in BR, nice that I can finally extract the multichannel PCM audio for my music server, so worth the investment to me. But for others that already have the SACD, this is probably superfluous. But if all you have is the CD, then this BluRay is totally worth it for the higher rez content. The mix is no better than the SACD, so there is that to contend with.
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post #20 of 42 Old 01-26-2014, 07:39 AM
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So I'm happy to have it in BR, nice that I can finally extract the multichannel PCM audio for my music server, so worth the investment to me.
Personally, I prefer to extract the DTS-HD MA stream and place it within the .MKA (Matroska) container and play them via SMB along with a .cue file wink.gif

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post #21 of 42 Old 02-01-2014, 04:30 PM
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Skip these discs. Unfortunately, these are the horrible sounding Nick Davis remixes done for SACD.
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post #22 of 42 Old 02-01-2014, 05:29 PM
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Skip these discs. Unfortunately, these are the horrible sounding Nick Davis remixes done for SACD.

I have a number of the Genesis SACDs that I bought primarily for the surround mixes. Maybe the stereo mixes on the SACDs are horrible but I quite enjoy the surround mixes. Certainly not the best sounding SACDs but the music is outstanding smile.gif. If UMe releases further Genesis titles on Blu-ray in surround (especially The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway) then that's great for those that missed out on the SACDs.

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post #23 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I have a number of the Genesis SACDs that I bought primarily for the surround mixes. Maybe the stereo mixes on the SACDs are horrible but I quite enjoy the surround mixes. Certainly not the best sounding SACDs but the music is outstanding smile.gif. If UMe releases further Genesis titles on Blu-ray in surround (especially The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway) then that's great for those that missed out on the SACDs.

Bill

I have most of the Genesis SACD/DVD-A two disc release albums but I can't remember ever playing the SACD discs. Only ever played the DVD-A discs on my Oppo. When I ripped my collection to file format for my media player I only ripped the DVD-As. I actually ripped all my other SACDs but didn't bother with the Genesis discs. I'm sure they are the same master/mixes so should be very similar sounding anyway.
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post #24 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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... I actually ripped all my other SACDs but didn't bother with the Genesis discs...
Out of interest... How did you perform this task?

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post #25 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 12:40 PM
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Out of interest... How did you perform this task?

The PS3 method to ISO. Then Foobar2000 with the SACD plug-in to convert to FLAC (5.1 or 2.0) at 24bit/88.2kHz.
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post #26 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 12:57 PM
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The PS3 method to ISO. Then Foobar2000 with the SACD plug-in to convert to FLAC (5.1 or 2.0) at 24bit/88.2kHz.
I wish I knew somebody with a suitable PS3 so I could back-up my SACD's to dff files and store them on my NAS frown.gif

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post #27 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 01:51 PM
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I wish I knew somebody with a suitable PS3 so I could back-up my SACD's to dff files and store them on my NAS frown.gif

I bought mine on Ebay (must be an early model that supports SACD and with an early firmware version - they're rare). Cost about $400AUD + shipping (local). Ripped all my SACDs over a couple of months then sold the PS3 for about the same price as I bought it (effective cost $0) - an AU member on here actually.

I'm not planning on buying more SACDs as I prefer multi-channel and there's not much happening there. Seems its seen as a 'purist' format and hence stereo only format. (one day that might bite me!). With luck HFPA Blur-ray will release many of the old multi-channel SACDs I don't have as Blu-ray Audios...
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post #28 of 42 Old 02-02-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJau View Post

I have most of the Genesis SACD/DVD-A two disc release albums but I can't remember ever playing the SACD discs. Only ever played the DVD-A discs on my Oppo. When I ripped my collection to file format for my media player I only ripped the DVD-As. I actually ripped all my other SACDs but didn't bother with the Genesis discs. I'm sure they are the same master/mixes so should be very similar sounding anyway.

I've never listened to the DVDs only the SACDs. The DVDs are not DVD-As and are not in a lossless audio format. So I would think that the SQ of the SACDs would be somewhat better than the DVDs.

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post #29 of 42 Old 02-03-2014, 09:51 AM
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Does anybody have a story as to why the Pure Audio discs are not readily available in North America (more specifically Canada)? I know some are and I picked up Breakfast in America however it seems to be hit and miss with Amazon. Selling England by the Pound has not yet shown up on Amazon that I can see. Also the weakening Canadian dollar makes getting these discs from international sources less attractive.
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post #30 of 42 Old 02-03-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill D T View Post

Does anybody have a story as to why the Pure Audio discs are not readily available in North America (more specifically Canada)? I know some are and I picked up Breakfast in America however it seems to be hit and miss with Amazon. Selling England by the Pound has not yet shown up on Amazon that I can see. Also the weakening Canadian dollar makes getting these discs from international sources less attractive.

I got BIA as well from Amazon.ca, I was looking at Night Train but it's sold by Amazon through a third party (now I have to pay shipping etc). I got Sixteen Sunsets from Amazon here as well as John Lennon's "Imagine". You might check out your local HMV, they do carry them, though you may have to order what you want. I got Stevie Wonder's "Songs In The Key Of Life" from a local HMV (in stock). But the short answer is no, not sure why the slow roll out. I don't think it's just Canada. I wanted Crime Of The Century as well but that got pulled before it got issued a while back. Perhaps there's quality issues, the ones I have have been hit and miss for audio quality. I like the concept of pure audio blu-ray, but the delivery has been less than stellar to date.
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