DTS 96/24 5.1 on dvd - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to be clear I can process everything up to 192 from every format except one. DTS 96/24 5.1 on DVD'S ONLY. It was a very rare formatt that I think only had about a dozen releases. I have 2 discs. A DTS demo disc and Megedeath Peace Sells. The Megedeath has 3 options. Pcm 5.1, Dts 5.1, pcm 2.1 all at 96/24. The other 2 play no problem but the dts 5.1 96/24 downsamples to 48 both on the player and reciever. The display shows 96/24 48. I have a Marantz player & Integra reciever.On the reciever the 96/24 light lights up, but the display shows 96/24 48. Has anyone encoutered this and know what the problem is. It happens on the demo disc also.
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 09:05 AM
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You're correct that the DTS 96/24 is a unique and essentially dead codec. How your AVR handles it might depend on what other processing you have going on. But you can have it decoded either in the player (PCM output) or the AVR (bitstream output). FWIW, a DVD cannot have 5.1 PCM at 24/96, or 5.1 PCM of any kind without MLP compression (as in DVD-A).
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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We have tried everything and it always downsamples. The only thing I havn't tried is the multi channel input. I use to run it on my old Pioneer Elite and if I remember right that would play correctly. My new Integra doesn't have multi channel inputs. Can't figure that one out.
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 11:16 AM
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Is it possible that the Metallica disc info is incorrect? Your demo disc is definitely DTS96/24 and not just plain ol' DTS?

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 03:06 PM
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DTS 96/24 uses the standard DTS core, so if for some reason only the core is being decoded, you get 24/48 or 16/48 I'm not sure which. That could take place in either the player or the AVR.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-08-2014, 08:50 PM
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The Peter Gabriel "Play" DVD includes a 96 kHz 24 bit DTS track. When played through my Pioneer Elite VSX94-TXH which supports DTS 96/24, it produced a sound at a volume way below normal output and something was clearly wrong with the decoding.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

The Peter Gabriel "Play" DVD includes a 96 kHz 24 bit DTS track. When played through my Pioneer Elite VSX94-TXH which supports DTS 96/24, it produced a sound at a volume way below normal output and something was clearly wrong with the decoding.

That was a bug in the authoring of the original dvd. It has been fixed for the new version that accompanies the Live in Athens Blu-ray. So, for about the same as the original Play dvd cost initially, you can get the fixed version w/ the BR concert as a bonus! BTW, Live in Athens is a reference BR concert, imo. Excellent surround mixing (true surround, not just anbience-in-rears), great sound quality and the video is as good as it gets for 16 mm- which is to say very good, even if a tick below 35 mm-sourced transfers. But the fact that the lighting was in white means that there are no wonky effects from low-level colored lighting and the editing is much better than most rock concert videos (i.e. longer duration shots- I hate those ADD MTV-style quick edits). Great setlist and superb musicians performing at/near their peak in a band that was totally tight.

Highly recommend this BR- it's my favorite BR concert disc. If you're a Gabriel fan, it's a no-brainer.
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

You're correct that the DTS 96/24 is a unique and essentially dead codec.
Well, it may have died a death with the DVD format but the new 'Blu-ray Audio' disc format has extended its life. As it forms the 'core' audio element of the DTS-HD MA stream wink.gif

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post #9 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JimWinVA View Post

That was a bug in the authoring of the original dvd. It has been fixed for the new version that accompanies the Live in Athens Blu-ray. So, for about the same as the original Play dvd cost initially, you can get the fixed version w/ the BR concert as a bonus! BTW, Live in Athens is a reference BR concert, imo. Excellent surround mixing (true surround, not just anbience-in-rears), great sound quality and the video is as good as it gets for 16 mm- which is to say very good, even if a tick below 35 mm-sourced transfers. But the fact that the lighting was in white means that there are no wonky effects from low-level colored lighting and the editing is much better than most rock concert videos (i.e. longer duration shots- I hate those ADD MTV-style quick edits). Great setlist and superb musicians performing at/near their peak in a band that was totally tight.

Highly recommend this BR- it's my favorite BR concert disc. If you're a Gabriel fan, it's a no-brainer.

Boy I wish I knew this earlier before wasting my money on two copies of Play just to find both had the same issue. I added the Athens Blu-ray into my Amazon cart for a future purchase!

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post #10 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gloco View Post

Boy I wish I knew this earlier before wasting my money on two copies of Play just to find both had the same issue. I added the Athens Blu-ray into my Amazon cart for a future purchase!

You're in for a real treat! The concert is awesome and TL's bass has never sounded better.
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Well, it may have died a death with the DVD format but the new 'Blu-ray Audio' disc format has extended its life. As it forms the 'core' audio element of the DTS-HD MA stream wink.gif

Incorrect. DTS 96/24 is a separate and different codec. DTS-MA can be 24/96 and have a core that's 24/96, but its not the same thing as the DTS 96/24 codec. In fact there are current decoder chips that do not decode the old 96/24 codec.
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-09-2014, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Incorrect. DTS 96/24 is a separate and different codec. DTS-MA can be 24/96 and have a core that's 24/96, but its not the same thing as the DTS 96/24 codec. In fact there are current decoder chips that do not decode the old 96/24 codec.
DTS at 96/24 is DTS at 96/24... Regardless of whether it's been authored on a DVD as an dedicated audio stream or buried within a DTS-HD MA audio stream as a core... Once extracted it's a DTS 96/24 stream.

Edit: Sure there maybe some slight differences in the ways the elementary DTS stream is packed into any particular container (ie: VOB, MPG, TS, M2TS, MKV etc) but that's a different issue...

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post #13 of 22 Old 01-11-2014, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Incorrect. DTS 96/24 is a separate and different codec. DTS-MA can be 24/96 and have a core that's 24/96, but its not the same thing as the DTS 96/24 codec. In fact there are current decoder chips that do not decode the old 96/24 codec.
This is what we think is going on from another forum.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-11-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by oldgame View Post

This is what we think is going on from another forum.

Its a pretty common issue with newer "DTS Essentials" licensed decoders.
ES decoding offers some of the same issues.
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-11-2014, 07:42 PM
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I kind of skimmed through this thread, so someone may have already mentioned this, but while both use a data compression scheme, DTS96/24 is a lossy codec (like MP3 and AAC), while DTS-MA is a lossless codec (like MLP for DVD-Audio, and FLAC).
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-13-2014, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gloco View Post

Boy I wish I knew this earlier before wasting my money on two copies of Play just to find both had the same issue. I added the Athens Blu-ray into my Amazon cart for a future purchase!

Same here. Have the original release of Peter Gabriel Play (the videos) and never noticed the problem on my old receiver setup. As suggested in other forums. Older players/receiver just ignored the DTS volume flag. Since upgrading to a new blu-ray player and receiver recently, only just noticed the faulty mastered DTS problem. I mean having to max out the volume when playing DTS is not good. May damage the equipment if you forget to turn down the volume.

Suppose its to late to get a replacement from Warner. So may, as suggested just get the live in Athens blu-ray, which comes with the bonus fixed play dvd.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-13-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by g12345567 View Post

Same here. Have the original release of Peter Gabriel Play (the videos) and never noticed the problem on my old receiver setup. As suggested in other forums. Older players/receiver just ignored the DTS volume flag. Since upgrading to a new blu-ray player and receiver recently, only just noticed the faulty mastered DTS problem. I mean having to max out the volume when playing DTS is not good. May damage the equipment if you forget to turn down the volume.

Suppose its to late to get a replacement from Warner. So may, as suggested just get the live in Athens blu-ray, which comes with the bonus fixed play dvd.

Yes, I had the volume WAY up listening to the DTS tracks, then go back to the menu to choose another song and WHAM- the music on the menu exploded. I just made due w/ DD after that. It's great having a fixed copy. Believe me, the LIA BR is well worth the money, even if a fixed Play wasn't included.

But you could always try to get Warner's to replace your copy. It's been a long time, but to my knowledge there wasn't a fix available until now.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-14-2014, 10:20 AM
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I ordered the Athens blu-ray, couldn't wait any longer knowing that there is a fixed version of Play included. Now I can finally listen to Play with the DTS track and I'm looking forward to the Athens blu-ray as well.

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post #19 of 22 Old 01-14-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWinVA View Post

Yes, I had the volume WAY up listening to the DTS tracks, then go back to the menu to choose another song and WHAM- the music on the menu exploded. I just made due w/ DD after that. It's great having a fixed copy. Believe me, the LIA BR is well worth the money, even if a fixed Play wasn't included.

But you could always try to get Warner's to replace your copy. It's been a long time, but to my knowledge there wasn't a fix available until now.

True. I'm in Australia so not sure if there is still a replacement for the PAL version available. Since the local web site listed on the back cover no longer works. But Warner Music Australia does have a local contact number here, who I assume would handle all there music dvd/blu-ray releases and replacements here.

I've only watched the DVD of LIve in Athens and I must say the quality is very good. I assume the blu-ray would be an excellent improvement.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-14-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by g12345567 View Post

True. I'm in Australia so not sure if there is still a replacement for the PAL version available. Since the local web site listed on the back cover no longer works. But Warner Music Australia does have a local contact number here, who I assume would handle all there music dvd/blu-ray releases and replacements here.

I've only watched the DVD of LIve in Athens and I must say the quality is very good. I assume the blu-ray would be an excellent improvement.

Keep away from the PAL version as it suffers from "PAL Speedup", a 4% speed increase that occurs when converting 24fps film to PAL video. Who wants that with music.

I'm in Melbourne and just bought the US version of Live In Athens Blu-ray release just to get the corrected Play NTSC DTS DVD (for me the LIA blu-ray is the bonus!). I had many of the Play videos on laserdisc, but never bought the PAL Play release on DVD. Only recently discovered it has a discrete 5.1 DTS track at 96kHz/24bit. The videos have impressive production and the sound is sensational too!
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post #21 of 22 Old 01-15-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HomerJau View Post

Keep away from the PAL version as it suffers from "PAL Speedup", a 4% speed increase that occurs when converting 24fps film to PAL video. Who wants that with music.

I'm in Melbourne and just bought the US version of Live In Athens Blu-ray release just to get the corrected Play NTSC DTS DVD (for me the LIA blu-ray is the bonus!). I had many of the Play videos on laserdisc, but never bought the PAL Play release on DVD. Only recently discovered it has a discrete 5.1 DTS track at 96kHz/24bit. The videos have impressive production and the sound is sensational too!

I have the LD also. Do you like the changes they made to the mixes on a lot of the songs for the Play videos? I prefer the LD mixes, which are closer to the album versions, but of course the SQ is better w/ DTS 5.1 24/96 on the DVD.

You consider LIA as the bonus- does that mean you like Play better than the concert? As much as I love Play, I much prefer LIA. The sound is incredible, one of the best live surround mixes I've ever heard, the setlist is great and while I enjoy watching the videos, I prefer watching the band perform the songs. Just imo of course.
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-16-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HomerJau View Post

Keep away from the PAL version as it suffers from "PAL Speedup", a 4% speed increase that occurs when converting 24fps film to PAL video. Who wants that with music.

I'm in Melbourne and just bought the US version of Live In Athens Blu-ray release just to get the corrected Play NTSC DTS DVD (for me the LIA blu-ray is the bonus!).. Only recently discovered it has a discrete 5.1 DTS track at 96kHz/24bit.

If I were to get the r NTSC blu-ray would it be region free?

I remember having the original release of Live In Athens on VHS (titled POV) before DVD was ever introduced. As this was only ever available on VHS until it was released in late 2013 on DVD and blu-ray.
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