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post #1 of 16 Old 01-29-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello.
I got my pc hooked up via hdmi to a Marantz sr5005 receiver. I am using foobar to play DST64 and DSD64 files. I have some questions regarding the PCM samplerate and also the DSD2PCM decoding mode I should use to get the best sound quality. I am currently using a samplerate of 176400 Hz and I use Multistage (floating-point) to decode the DSD/DST files.
People complain about a certain high frequency noise while using such a high samplerate and the multistage floating point decoding option. I am not experiencing this, at least I dont think so. What is this high frequency noise? A hissing sound like when you are playing a vinyl? I listened to Beck Sea Change SACD, Queen A Night At The Opera SACD, Roger Waters The Wall Berlin SACD, both Pink Floyd SACDs, Nick Drake Treasury SACD, Dire Strats Brothers In Arms SACD. Everything seems to be in order. Am I doing things right?
Thank you in advance
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-29-2014, 08:11 PM
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24/88.2 is generally considered the "proper" PCM conversion for DSD. A SACD player uses a digital roll-off above 30-40KHz to eliminate the inherent noise from DSD. I can't say if the Foobar plugin does the same. In any case, using the 88.2 sample rate helps in this regard. Also good to note that a 176.4 sample rate gains you nothing over 88.2.
In the case of a PC, the sound card might have its own limitations, or video card if that's your source for HDMI. The only way to know what you're getting is via your processor, which should have a signal info display. Point being that you might not be getting what you think and could even be forcing additional conversion. You need to know the limitations of all the parts in the chain.
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post #3 of 16 Old 01-30-2014, 01:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Also good to note that a 176.4 sample rate gains you nothing over 88.2.
I didn't know this is the case. Then there is no disadvantage in using a samplerate of 88.2 khz, so that's what I'll do.
I am using an Asus G73JH laptop and, indeed, the hdmi comes from the video card (ati 5870m). The processor is an intel i7 720qm. How can I verify if the processor is doing unnecessary conversions? The Marantz receiver displays PCM 88.2 Khz, exactly the same as foobar.
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post #4 of 16 Old 01-30-2014, 04:55 AM
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If the AVR reports its receiving 88.2, that's all that matters.
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post #5 of 16 Old 07-15-2015, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
If the AVR reports its receiving 88.2, that's all that matters.
I know this is an elementary question, but I have been trying to use foobar for playing of downloaded DSD 64 sample songs. I haven't been able to get it to work. It seems I have everything set right in Foobar and my receiver is DSD 64 capable. PC has HDMI 1.4 out.

Do you know of another software player that I might try just as a test if nothing else?

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post #6 of 16 Old 07-15-2015, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
I know this is an elementary question, but I have been trying to use foobar for playing of downloaded DSD 64 sample songs. I haven't been able to get it to work. It seems I have everything set right in Foobar and my receiver is DSD 64 capable. PC has HDMI 1.4 out.

Do you know of another software player that I might try just as a test if nothing else?
If you're talking PC, probably the video card doesn't support DSD over HDMI. Convert the files to LPCM 24/88.2 and listen to that.
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post #7 of 16 Old 07-15-2015, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
If you're talking PC, probably the video card doesn't support DSD over HDMI. Convert the files to LPCM 24/88.2 and listen to that.
Yes: PC
Hadn't thought of that. The Gigabyte motherboard is two or three years old. I use the Intel HD3000 for the output to HDMI. I will check the specs of the MB to see if it mentions DSD.

24/192 PCM stereo works directly to the AVR. Is that any indication of whether 24/88.2 DSD should work?

I hadn't found an applicable guide for setting up foobar 2000 with an AVR for DSD. Every guide I have found talks about using foo_input_sacd.dll, which seems to be obsolete.

Thanks!

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post #8 of 16 Old 07-16-2015, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
If you're talking PC, probably the video card doesn't support DSD over HDMI. Convert the files to LPCM 24/88.2 and listen to that.
It turns out that no PC components can carry DSD over HDMI to an AVR. So like you say, the player needs to convert to PCM to be transported.

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post #9 of 16 Old 07-17-2015, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
It turns out that no PC components can carry DSD over HDMI to an AVR. So like you say, the player needs to convert to PCM to be transported.
If you really want to play unconverted DSD files from your computer, you can purchase a USB attached external DAC and send the output of that into any analog input of your receiver. As long as you don't use room correction on your receiver, you will get the best sound possible from your DSD files.
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post #10 of 16 Old 07-17-2015, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post
If you really want to play unconverted DSD files from your computer, you can purchase a USB attached external DAC and send the output of that into any analog input of your receiver. As long as you don't use room correction on your receiver, you will get the best sound possible from your DSD files.
Thanks for that tip. What I've found so far is I can connect an external HD to the USB input of the Denon and play DSD64. That works well.

I've tried to play DSD64 stuff over my LAN. While the Denon sees some music files on my PC, it does not recognize the DSD64 files. I have two routers in between the PC and Denon. I am hoping that could be the problem.

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post #11 of 16 Old Yesterday, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
If you're talking PC, probably the video card doesn't support DSD over HDMI. Convert the files to LPCM 24/88.2 and listen to that.
Based on your experience and knowledge, is there any reason why a LAN couldn't carry DSD64 from PC to AVR?

Also should s/pdif be sufficient to carry stereo DSD64 from the PC to the AVR?

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post #12 of 16 Old Yesterday, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
Based on your experience and knowledge, is there any reason why a LAN couldn't carry DSD64 from PC to AVR?
DSD files can be played over network assuming the player supports that. AVRs do not AFAIK. Most AVRs do not support high res files at all.

Quote:
Also should s/pdif be sufficient to carry stereo DSD64 from the PC to the AVR?
Nope, insufficient bandwidth. 24/88 LPCM can be sent over SPDIF however, stereo only.
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post #13 of 16 Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
DSD files can be played over network assuming the player supports that. AVRs do not AFAIK. Most AVRs do not support high res files at all.

Nope, insufficient bandwidth. 24/88 LPCM can be sent over SPDIF however, stereo only.
Thanks.

The Denon AVR manual states DSD64 can be played from a "PC or NAS" . "A server or server software compatible with distribution in the corresponding formats is required to play music files via a network"

I haven't got that to work yet.

There is a separate entry for playing from a USB memory device. So I am assuming the above refers to play from Ethernet.

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post #14 of 16 Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by frankpc3 View Post
Thanks.

The Denon AVR manual states DSD64 can be played from a "PC or NAS" . "A server or server software compatible with distribution in the corresponding formats is required to play music files via a network"

I haven't got that to work yet.

There is a separate entry for playing from a USB memory device. So I am assuming the above refers to play from Ethernet.
If the AVR supports only DNLA, then you need server software running on the PC which also supports DSD. If the AVR supports SMB/NFS then you only need to implement file sharing on the PC.

You might find its simpler to just drop the files on a thumb drive and play them from there on the AVR.
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post #15 of 16 Old Yesterday, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
If the AVR supports only DNLA, then you need server software running on the PC which also supports DSD. If the AVR supports SMB/NFS then you only need to implement file sharing on the PC.

You might find its simpler to just drop the files on a thumb drive and play them from there on the AVR.
Thanks, I will look into SMB/NFS. I can play the files from an external 2 TB hard drive. That works well, but I want it more convenient than doing those things.

I do have Twonky installed and I can see the files on my PC. Other music stuff plays, but the DSD stuff doesn't show up. And even without Twonky, I can see the same stuff on the pc from the Denon - the DSD stuff doesn't show up but other PCM stuff does.

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post #16 of 16 Old Today, 03:17 AM
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I agree with rdgrimes...

Before attempting to configure your network to play your DSD files "drop the files on a thumb drive and play them from there on the AVR".

The first thing you need to confirm is that your amplifier can actually play your (.dsf and .dff) DSD files. Don't take anything for granted

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