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-   -   Pono (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-surround-music-formats/1522051-pono.html)

andwhatnot 03-11-2014 10:29 AM

OK to open this? Kickstarter tomorrow.
http://time.com/18027/neil-youngs-high-fidelity-pono-music-player-is-still-coming-and-itll-cost-399/

acebreathe 03-11-2014 06:26 PM

I have no interest in his Pono player but I'm interested in what he has as a catalogue and at what price.

WillyJ 03-12-2014 07:05 AM

Odd name to choose............ too easy to mistake for PORNO. Seems like someone would have realized this but what do I know.

William 03-12-2014 10:48 AM

...but it is 2 channel only and no multichannel support.

liteon163 03-22-2014 04:47 PM

My smartphone (an LG G2) can play all sorts of lossless files. I don't need another device.

I think this device is going to fail miserably.

Sent from my Verizon LG G2 using Tapatalk

eljr 04-12-2014 08:53 AM

Will Pono play the Flac files we already own?

RMK! 04-12-2014 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Will Pono play the Flac files we already own?

Yes

eljr 04-12-2014 09:25 AM

So Pono is nothing but a Flac player... a MP3 player that plays Flac as it were?

Are there not other Flac players available in the market now?

Sony????

AJCxZ0 04-12-2014 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by liteon163 View Post

My smartphone (an LG G2) can play all sorts of lossless files. I don't need another device.

The modern mobile communication and media computer which also happens to include voice communication as one of its features really does obviate most other formerly common mobile electronics. Really only "high end" functionality is left to dedicated devices, e.g. advanced DACs and/or amps for audio (or in my case a FiiO E6 headpone amp).


My (comparatively) old Motorola DROID 4 with PowerAMP plays just about everything and has a nice interface, too.



Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Are there not other Flac players available in the market now?


My seven year old COWON iAUDIO7 purchased for $103.31 plays FLAC, OGG, MP3 and other formats. COWON has plenty of other players still available and is not the only vendor in the market.


The FiiO X3 and X5 are supposed to be very nice yet affordable "audiophile" quality players.

SeeMoreDigital 04-14-2014 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

So Pono is nothing but a Flac player... a MP3 player that plays Flac as it were?

Are there not other Flac players available in the market now?

Sony????
Who needs to spend $400.00 on a dedicated audio player that supports FLAC when you've probably got a mobile/cell phone that supports it (along with many other audio formats) already... Indeed, I would rather upgrade my existing phone to offer better audio output options and an SD card slot, than buy a Pono!

Sorry Mr Young but "I'm out"...

AJCxZ0 04-14-2014 10:32 AM

Maybe we're focusing on the wrong thing, i.e. an overpriced media player into which people will still plug crappy headphones and claim they can hear the 192 kHz 24 bit difference.

If this helps persuade the global corporate behemoths who own the masters to get them in the right series of hands to make them available to us in a format which isn't limited in any way which compromises the potential sound, and in doing so puts an end to the scammers who peddle upsampled recordings, lackluster mixes, mastering with all the dynamic range of a commercial radio DJ, etc., then we should support the effort.

Even more so if the mixing step includes surround as well as stereo, since up to eight channels are supported by FLAC.

Since we're not buying the player, what we need is a good purchase and download service free of of DRM and unnecessary software. I don't see one on www.ponomusic.com. I don't even see a mention of one beyond reference to a "PonoMusic.com Store"... Found it, despite the poor web design. If you click the arrow and scroll through a few slides on the "About" page and manage to read it before the slide flips, it says
Quote:
When the Kickstarter campaign is complete, this website will transform into the PonoMusic Store. You will be able to purchase PonoPlayers and PonoMusic to your heart’s, and ears’, content.

So we have

Y FLAC
Y High sample and bit rate
? Surround mixes
? No DRM (None in the file format)
? No software
N Reasonable prices ($14.99 -$24.99 per album)*


*[Compared to DVD-A and SACD which include effectively all of the above]

William 04-15-2014 05:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

...If this helps persuade the global corporate behemoths who own the masters to get them in the right series of hands to make them available to us in a format which isn't limited in any way which compromises the potential sound, and in doing so puts an end to the scammers who peddle upsampled recordings, lackluster mixes, mastering with all the dynamic range of a commercial radio DJ, etc., then we should support the effort.

Even more so if the mixing step includes surround as well as stereo, since up to eight channels are supported by FLAC.

Since we're not buying the player, what we need is a good purchase and download service free of of DRM and unnecessary software. I don't see one on www.ponomusic.com. I don't even see a mention of one beyond reference to a "PonoMusic.com Store"... Found it, despite the poor web design. If you click the arrow and scroll through a few slides on the "About" page and manage to read it before the slide flips, it says
So we have

Y FLAC
Y High sample and bit rate
? Surround mixes
? No DRM (None in the file format)
? No software
N Reasonable prices ($14.99 -$24.99 per album)*


*[Compared to DVD-A and SACD which include effectively all of the above]

There are STRONG rumors that Apple will start offering 96/24 ALAC music this summer. However it will (likely) be 2-channel only (and like this entire thread NA to this forum) and at a premium price point.

eljr 04-15-2014 05:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

There are STRONG rumors that Apple will start offering 96/24 ALAC music .

I have read this several places.

William 04-15-2014 05:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I have read this several places.

I hope Apple will get progressive (not very Apple like though) and offer at least some 5.1 96/24 music. It could be a selling point for the next ATV and could be combined with 5.1 96/24 music videos, concerts and even main stream movies.

eljr 04-15-2014 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

I hope Apple will get progressive (not very Apple like though) and offer at least some 5.1 96/24 music. It could be a selling point for the next ATV and could be combined with 5.1 96/24 music videos, concerts and even main stream movies.

I can't see much demand for 5.1 for Apple.

Milt99 04-26-2014 09:52 AM

One thing is for certain, if iTunes offers hi-res 24/88 and 24/96 content, HDTracks will be gone in a month and Pono will be Dead Before Arrival

acebreathe 04-26-2014 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

One thing is for certain, if iTunes offers hi-res 24/88 and 24/96 content, HDTracks will be gone in a month and Pono will be Dead Before Arrival
Agree for the most part but if it does happen it will be interesting to see what their price point will be and what happens to the mastered for itunes catalogue. Right now Acoustic Sounds Super Hi Rez site has 192,176,96, and 88/ 24 bit FLAC downloads at different price points in addition to their DSD downloads. Most of the 96/24 go for around 18 bucks. Of course Apple won't offer FLAC it would be ALAC. The rumors all hint at early June right about the same time the Led Zep remasters hit the market. If Neil Young's kickstarter Pono campaign forces Apple to upgrade their content than he has accomplished something.

William 04-26-2014 02:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

One thing is for certain, if iTunes offers hi-res 24/88 and 24/96 content, HDTracks will be gone in a month and Pono will be Dead Before Arrival

Actually it would help Pono. This would give the one thing it will be missing. A great selection of HD CONTENT. People who want the highest end hardware will buy Pono and be happy to have a large selection of HD music on iTunes to choose from.

eljr 04-26-2014 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Actually it would help Pono. This would give the one thing it will be missing. A great selection of HD CONTENT. People who want the highest end hardware will buy Pono and be happy to have a large selection of HD music on iTunes to choose from.

I have never leased a song from Itunes and never will.

I have no intentions of changing .

I don't care if they start selling pink elephants and no one else has one and my daughter wants one.

William 04-26-2014 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I have never leased a song from Itunes and never will.

I have no intentions of changing .

I don't care if they start selling pink elephants and no one else has one and my daughter wants one.
iTunes doesn't lease music. However I'm talking about people who are buying the Pono.

eljr 04-26-2014 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

iTunes doesn't lease music..

What do they do? and you did speak to music from Itune.

Are you just going to browse Itunes and not put any on your Pono? ????

William 04-26-2014 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

What do they do? and you did speak to music from Itune.

Are you just going to brows Itunes and not put any on your Pono? ????

They SELL music like everyone else. I don't believe the record companies will allow any type of lease/rental of music. The closest they come to allowing leasing is licensing to Streaming music services like Pandora.

....and what do you mean by " ...you did speak to (leasing???) music from iTunes"...?

eljr 04-26-2014 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

They SELL music like everyone else. I don't believe the record companies will allow any type of lease/rental of music. The closest they come to allowing leasing is licensing to Streaming music services like Pandora.

....and what do you mean by " ...you did speak to (leasing???) music from iTunes"...?

you are effectively leasing the content, not buying it. This is because you are being sold a licence from Itune to use the song, not the item itself.

Milt99 04-26-2014 03:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

you are effectively leasing the content, not buying it. This is because you are being sold a licence from Itune to use the song, not the item itself.
Do you know anyone who has lost the lease on their iTune download?

William, I wasn't referring to the Pono player but to the Pono download site in context with HDTracks.

eljr 04-26-2014 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Do you know anyone who has lost the lease on their iTune download?

Luckily no, the lease is lost at death.

Why is it you cannot legally sell your downloads? It's not yours to sell.

You can't sell things you lease.

William 04-26-2014 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post


...William, I wasn't referring to the Pono player but to the Pono download site in context with HDTracks.
10/4, you are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post


...William, I wasn't referring to the Pono player but to the Pono download site in context with HDTracks.
10/4, you are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Luckily no, the lease is lost at death.

Why is it you cannot legally sell your downloads? It's not yours to sell.

You can't sell things you lease.

Ironically we are really getting off topic on this off topic thread. However music is NOT leased. ALL copyrighted intellectual properties including TV, books, music, software, movies, or…… are covered by an end user licensing agreement (EULA). You BUY the music license and agree to abide by the EULA. While the EULA may exclude you from passing your music upon your death, what is going to stop you? Your files do not go up in smoke upon your death. Also I’m sure your digital music files will be as interesting, useful, valuable and relevant to your heirs as if you inherited a box of worn out Tom Jones & The Everly Brothers 8-track tapes. Technological is moving at an exponential rate and it’s likely that YOU may not even be in possession of your current digital software when you die. Even if you do have 1000 or 100,000 TBs of data when you die do you really expect your heirs will spend their precious time combing through it looking for a music file when they can easily access any song with just a thought or a word (likely with implanted hardware)?

eljr 04-26-2014 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post


Ironically we are really getting off topic on this off topic thread. However music is NOT leased. ALL copyrighted intellectual properties including TV, books, music, software, movies, or…… are covered by an end user licensing agreement (EULA). You BUY the music license and agree to abide by the EULA. While the EULA may exclude you from passing your music upon your death, what is going to stop you? Your files do not go up in smoke upon your death. Also I’m sure your digital music files will be as interesting, useful, valuable and relevant to your heirs as if you inherited a box of worn out Tom Jones & The Everly Brothers 8-track tapes. Technological is moving at an exponential rate and it’s likely that YOU may not even be in possession of your current digital software when you die. Even if you do have 1000 or 100,000 TBs of data when you die do you really expect your heirs will spend their precious time combing through it looking for a music file when they can easily access any song with just a thought or a word (likely with implanted hardware)?

Ironically, you understand they are effectively leased but have no regard for the law so consider it a possession to hand down.

thehun 04-26-2014 08:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

One thing is for certain, if iTunes offers hi-res 24/88 and 24/96 content, HDTracks will be gone in a month and Pono will be Dead Before Arrival
I doubt that, the primary iTunes users are not hirez fans and users and vice versa. The only way HD track would suffer if the price would be way lower. Knowing Apple that's not gonna happen.

William 04-27-2014 05:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

I doubt that, the primary iTunes users are not hirez fans and users and vice versa. The only way HD track would suffer if the price would be way lower. Knowing Apple that's not gonna happen.
Remember if there is one thing Apple is GREAT at it's convincing people they NEED something (although I do share some of your skepticism but just playing devil's advocate). For years Apple has been requiring studios to submit 24/96 masters. Apple is likely to offer millions of tracks on day one. Content is KING and HDtracks (or Pono) just can't offer anywhere near the choice. For instance on HDtracks right now the #1 rock album is a 1987 album by Joe Satriani (fine but Apple would offer all Billboard/mainstream). Add to that if Apple is successful then in no time Google and Amazon will start offering HD tracks. While Apple will likely hold the line on pricing (record companies dictate the price) Amazon and Google often offer subsided music to compete with Apple. It would be next to impossible for a mom and pop like HDtracks of Pono to compete with the big 3.

It would be in HDtracks best interest if Apple fails at promoting or better yet does't offer HD music. HDtracks and Pono can only be successful in a niche market.

eljr 04-27-2014 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Remember if there is one thing Apple is GREAT at it's convincing people they NEED something

Excellent observation.


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