What is the future of Surround in Automobiles - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By bobpaule
  • 1 Post By Feirstein
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 04-05-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
wtpittman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I drive an Acura MDX and have also owned a Lexus GX- both with DVD A. Naturally I have a collection of DVD-A's.

While looking at the 2014 Acuras I discovered that DVD Audio has been eliminated from their vehicles, they no longer offer "Surround" only Acura/ELS Studio Premium Audio System.

It looks like Toyota's are doing the same.

This has made me seriously reconsider re-upping on an Acura. I put 22k miles/yr in LA traffic and have become accustomed to surround to make it a tiny bit less painful.

Scouring the net I can not find anything on surround in auto's.

It looks like there is a breakout coming for Hi Rez portable players. I would love to be able to plug in a Hi Rez file player via USB.

Anybody have similar concerns?
wtpittman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 04-05-2014, 01:31 PM
Member
 
royceb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had an Acura 2008 and re-upped to a 2011. I switched to an Audi this time because I heard that Acura was giving up the surround sound system so I went to a car whose drive I liked better. The Audio plays 5.1 lossy discs and I listen to concert DVDs. But no DVD-As. My wife drives a 2013 GMC Denali and it plays DVD-As just fine so I would try the GMC line if surround sound is that important.
royceb is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 04-07-2014, 08:02 PM
Senior Member
 
C*Tedesco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Drove the Acura MDX 2012 as well, and love the DVD-A system. Beck Sea Change sounds ridiculous! Sad to hear that they have done away with this in the Acura MDX. I'm assuming it's gone in the TSX and TL as well?

I've heard it in the TL and TSX and both sounded pretty great.
C*Tedesco is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 04:02 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Do any of these surround systems have anything like Dolby PLIIx or something like that to create surround from stereo CDs?

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 06:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WillyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro Area, Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Do any of these surround systems have anything like Dolby PLIIx or something like that to create surround from stereo CDs?

Bill

Bill,

I had a Benz ML320 with the Bose upgraded sound system and it had PLII and CDs never sounded better. My Pilot also has the upgraded sound system and it has DTS and Dolby which I think is limited to DVDs but to be honest I haven't played the first CD in the vehicle yet as I mostly listen to XM/Sirius nowadays. Will have to pull the owner's manual and see what magic it will work on CDs.

Unless the car salesman is really young, most know nothing about the sound system in the car they are selling. But there is hope: Like AVS Forum, there are forums for practically every car out there. Before I bought the Pilot I hung out in the owners forum for weeks.wink.gif

Will
WillyJ is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 12:23 PM
Senior Member
 
AJCxZ0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, U.S.A.
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtpittman View Post

While looking at the 2014 Acuras I discovered that DVD Audio has been eliminated from their vehicles, they no longer offer "Surround" only Acura/ELS Studio Premium Audio System.

The 5.1 ELS system and 6 DVD-A changer is one of the main reasons I bought my 2005 Acura TL. It would be sad if they are still branding the new systems "ELS" if they are no longer multi-channel, but according to Acura ELS Sound System, "With six independent, discrete channels of audio source material..." and Panasonic ELS Latest News, "2014 MDX features ELS... and 5.1-channel surround sound."

The ELS Surround® Premium Audio - About page mentions, "ELS Surround was the world's first in-dash radio with a built-in six-disc DVD-Audio/CD changer capable of playing DVD-Audio discs, CD's and MP3’s", which doesn't imply that there is still a DVD-A player. If there isn't, then what multi-channel sources are supported? FLAC?

The optional 2014 TL Acura/ELS Surround Sound System includes "DVD-A, MP3, WMA6 and DTS-compatible disc player".

What am I missing? This affects my next car purchase.
AJCxZ0 is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 01:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
qwknuf6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 619
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Went to the Acura website , the MDX and RLX show a studio ELS audio , the RDX and TL show ELS surround and DVD -A . I am in the market for a new Acura, I will find out for sure soon smile.gif

After reading more , looks like they may all have surround sound , not sure about the DVD A thing yet ,
qwknuf6 is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 01:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WillyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro Area, Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

The 5.1 ELS system and 6 DVD-A changer is one of the main reasons I bought my 2005 Acura TL. It would be sad if they are still branding the new systems "ELS" if they are no longer multi-channel, but according to Acura ELS Sound System, "With six independent, discrete channels of audio source material..." and Panasonic ELS Latest News, "2014 MDX features ELS... and 5.1-channel surround sound."

The ELS Surround® Premium Audio - About page mentions, "ELS Surround was the world's first in-dash radio with a built-in six-disc DVD-Audio/CD changer capable of playing DVD-Audio discs, CD's and MP3’s", which doesn't imply that there is still a DVD-A player. If there isn't, then what multi-channel sources are supported? FLAC?

The optional 2014 TL Acura/ELS Surround Sound System includes "DVD-A, MP3, WMA6 and DTS-compatible disc player".

What am I missing? This affects my next car purchase.

MCH could be lossy DTS and Dolby Digital on DVD and PLII for 2 channel.
WillyJ is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 03:32 PM
Senior Member
 
AJCxZ0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, U.S.A.
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

MCH could be lossy DTS and Dolby Digital on DVD and PLII for 2 channel.

Quite true, though dropping DVD-A and adding DD or DTS on DVD-V (not to be confused with DTS CD, which is supported in the original ELS) would be a strange choice. I'd welcome adding support for DD and DTS on DVD-V support, but certainly not at the expense of DVD-A. Throw in BD support, too.

As for fake surround (DLII, DTS NEO), I don't think that makes sense for car seating. Better to continue sending stereo signals to all speakers on each side.
AJCxZ0 is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 04:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WillyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro Area, Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 73
^^

Maybe they are dropping the DVDA and/or adopting a one size fits all radio head that fits not only Acuras but Hondas too. Nowadays the nav, phone, bluetooth, xm/sirius are all tied together in one unit so maybe there is some cost savings to them going with a system that works for all platforms. They could add more and better speakers and bigger amps for the higher end models but keep the same head unit.
WillyJ is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 04-08-2014, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WillyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Atlanta Metro Area, Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Do any of these surround systems have anything like Dolby PLIIx or something like that to create surround from stereo CDs?

Bill

Bill - I checked and mine will apply PLII to all sources except AM/FM. Had the car for almost a year now and just figured it out. Thanks for prodding me.biggrin.gif

Will
WillyJ is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 04-09-2014, 01:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Larry Geller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bayside, New York, USA
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

Went to the Acura website , the MDX and RLX show a studio ELS audio , the RDX and TL show ELS surround and DVD -A . I am in the market for a new Acura, I will find out for sure soon smile.gif

After reading more , looks like they may all have surround sound , not sure about the DVD A thing yet ,
ELS Studio means NO surround. The RLX does not have surround (the Krell upgrade doesn't have it, either), The ILX & the TL still have surround, as of 2014. Whether the new 2015 TLX will have it is the big question.

"MMMM,Snout!"---Homer Simpson
Larry Geller is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 04-19-2014, 06:35 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
bobpaule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: US
Posts: 1,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 30
As long as the POS XM/Sirius 14kb/s satellite broadcast continues to thrill the Walmart addicted huddled masses there will be no real progress, unless food and fuel prices hike to pre-revolutionary levels this year, leading to the demise of the outfit.
locomo likes this.
bobpaule is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 05-01-2014, 03:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
qwknuf6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 619
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Wife just picked up a 2014 Acura RDX with ELS surround sound smile.gif, comes with a cool DEMO DVD -A , I am glad she did not go for the Honda CR-V
qwknuf6 is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 05-02-2014, 01:59 AM
Senior Member
 
JimWinVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

Wife just picked up a 2014 Acura RDX with ELS surround sound smile.gif, comes with a cool DEMO DVD -A , I am glad she did not go for the Honda CR-V

Nice. So, I guess you'll be borrowing her ride quite a bit?
JimWinVA is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 05-12-2014, 07:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Feirstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I have a Sony MEX-DV2000 multi-channel player in 2 of my cars. It plays SACD's, Dolby Digital surround, DTS Surround, PLII. It will play the dolby digital and DTS tracks on all my DVD-A disks, although the complex menu on DVD-A disks make selecting an option without a video display difficult.

I just love the sound produced by this unit, and its tuner is one of the most sensitive I have every experienced.
So of course, Sony pulled the plug on this wonderful device.

Bose made an SACD/DVD-A player for a short period, option in that expensive Italian sports car.
locomo likes this.
Feirstein is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 05-16-2014, 06:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Timothy91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
There already is a very nice sounding factory system from Harman Kardon in the Toyota Camry that is surround sound. I've heard it at CES last year and it's very, very good quality. Better than the factory Bose systems I've heard in years past.
Timothy91 is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 05-17-2014, 10:08 PM
Senior Member
 
JimWinVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

There already is a very nice sounding factory system from Harman Kardon in the Toyota Camry that is surround sound. I've heard it at CES last year and it's very, very good quality. Better than the factory Bose systems I've heard in years past.

In what way is it a surround system? Does it play DVD-A, DVD-V, DTS-CD, what? You have more details?
JimWinVA is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 05-18-2014, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Timothy91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
After doing some research, at this time the Hybrid Camry can only play DVD-format discs with Dolby Digital. That is the best discrete surround format available in the factory system that Harman offers currently. You would have to go to the after-market segment to find more surround formats. The BMW version 'might' be able to play DTS. The logic-7 format is a 2-channel matrix decoding technology and it's a very good one. I wouldn't recommend playing compressed music files under 256kb/sec on it though or you'll likely hear compression artifacts from the rear channels. High quality VBR encodes should be fine though with an encoder like LAME or with an Ogg-Vorbis format or a solid 256kb/sec (or higher) stream.
Timothy91 is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 05-18-2014, 12:20 PM
Senior Member
 
JimWinVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

After doing some research, at this time the Hybrid Camry can only play DVD-format discs with Dolby Digital. That is the best discrete surround format available in the factory system that Harman offers currently. You would have to go to the after-market segment to find more surround formats. The BMW version 'might' be able to play DTS. The logic-7 format is a 2-channel matrix decoding technology and it's a very good one. I wouldn't recommend playing compressed music files under 256kb/sec on it though or you'll likely hear compression artifacts from the rear channels. High quality VBR encodes should be fine though with an encoder like LAME or with an Ogg-Vorbis format or a solid 256kb/sec (or higher) stream.

Thanks for the info. I found nothing on Toyota's site; it appeared all the Camrys offered were CD systems. The HK sounds like a good system; too bad it doesn't do DTS.
JimWinVA is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 06-20-2014, 02:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Larry Geller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bayside, New York, USA
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The 2015 TLX does NOT have surround (ELS Studio system), but the 2015 ILX still does (ELS Surround system).

"MMMM,Snout!"---Homer Simpson
Larry Geller is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 06-20-2014, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
locomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feirstein View Post
I have a Sony MEX-DV2000 multi-channel player in 2 of my cars. It plays SACD's, Dolby Digital surround, DTS Surround, PLII. It will play the dolby digital and DTS tracks on all my DVD-A disks, although the complex menu on DVD-A disks make selecting an option without a video display difficult.

I just love the sound produced by this unit, and its tuner is one of the most sensitive I have every experienced.
So of course, Sony pulled the plug on this wonderful device.
I have this same head unit and a JVC DVD-A player (with a 4.1 switchbox in the glove box).
Fantastic for road trips, and I use the JVC screen to see wtf I'm doing on the Sony.
The Sony also has the HD-radio add-on and it sounds sooo much better than the JVC's Sirius crap (obviously).
Shame neither of them are made anymore.
locomo is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 10-02-2014, 03:57 PM
Member
 
mcolts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I had a 2010 TL with the ELS surround system and after hearing the demo disc that they provided, I was on a hunt to find as many DVD-A discs that I could (without breaking the bank). I have departed my TL (number of reasons) and jumped into a Jeep with the Harman Kardon surround system. Only problem with the sound system is the lack of a CD player (only SD, USB, and Bluetooth).

So now I have a collection of discs that I cannot use in my car, where I do the majority of my listening. I know you can extract the audio from these discs into different digital formats, but is there a way you can play these through the car?

I am not assuming any of you have a Jeep and have tried to do this, but in theory, is it possible? Would the usb/SD inputs have to be able to decode the digital versions of these discs?


Thanks for the help/advice!!
mcolts is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 10-07-2014, 12:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
acebreathe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No Plfd NJ
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcolts View Post
I had a 2010 TL with the ELS surround system and after hearing the demo disc that they provided, I was on a hunt to find as many DVD-A discs that I could (without breaking the bank). I have departed my TL (number of reasons) and jumped into a Jeep with the Harman Kardon surround system. Only problem with the sound system is the lack of a CD player (only SD, USB, and Bluetooth).

So now I have a collection of discs that I cannot use in my car, where I do the majority of my listening. I know you can extract the audio from these discs into different digital formats, but is there a way you can play these through the car?

I am not assuming any of you have a Jeep and have tried to do this, but in theory, is it possible? Would the usb/SD inputs have to be able to decode the digital versions of these discs?


Thanks for the help/advice!!
If you can hook up a DVD player to the HK system then you could play back the discs since most are made to be compatible with DVD players. The only thing is that you won't be able to play the loss less tracks, only the lossy layer. Not great but better than nothing. The other alternative would be to download DVD Audio Extractor and rip your discs. The program is free to play with for 30 days. Find out what type of files your system will play, like FLAC or ALAC, etc. Rip a couple of discs, load the tracks on a USB stick and see if they play and find out if you like the sound. You can make 2.0 or 5.1 files. If it doesn't work you can always look on E Bay for an old Alpine head unit that plays DVD A discs. There are probably other companies that made them but I don't know who off hand, Alpine is the one I know for sure as I had a unit and it worked great. But I'm pretty sure you don't want to install another head unit if you're happy with the HK.
acebreathe is offline  
Reply Surround Music Formats



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off