Top Ten Best Surround/High Rez Releases? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 244 Old 01-10-2007, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ryewhiskey View Post

I really like acoustic music in high resolution 5.1 but I'm not a big fan of bluegrass (I should give Nickel Creek a chance, though, because as I understand it they're not bluegrass in the Bill Monroe sense).

Can anyone recommend a few good acoustic music SACD or DVD-A discs? For example, I'm a big fan of John Fahey, Richard Thompson and Nick Drake, so I guess I veer more toward the folk and rock side of the spectrum than the country/bluegrass or jazz fusion end (I absolutely hate Bela Fleck).

Any suggesions?


My favorite all time acoustic SACD is Jorma Kaukonen's "Blue Country Heart", which has a front porch jam session kind of feel; the mix is superb. "New Favorite" by Alison Krauss and U.S. is also excellent, as is Junior Wells "Come on in This House" for blues.
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post #92 of 244 Old 01-10-2007, 07:19 AM
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If you're a fan of accoustic guitar, you must check out Al DiMeola's new "Consequence of Chaos" multi-channel SACD. Very impressive!

Brad
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post #93 of 244 Old 01-10-2007, 02:04 PM
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Agreed !! Great sound.


Bill
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post #94 of 244 Old 01-20-2007, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Hancock View Post

...The added "lead" guitar is, IMO, one of the better arguments for keeping artists from tampering with a finished work. To me ... Buckingham's "lead" is nothing more than what we pickers call "noodling"--truly lame notes that are completely unnecessary and needlessly distracting in a song whose genius lies in its stark simplicity.

Once it's released it's done. Remix carefully for surround, OK, but otherwise keep the artist's aging paws off! ..

Trent Reznor was suspected by a few fans of adding instruments or sounds to his 5.1 mix (SACD and DVD-A) of The Downward Spiral, but none were added. The stereo mix was just so complex that only a few people noticed those sounds back in 1994. His audience of 1994, including myself, didn't have good enough equipment to get the most of those mixes back then as it was.

As a die hard fan, I would have been pissed if instruments HAD been added, so I agree with you 100%.
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post #95 of 244 Old 01-21-2007, 12:30 AM
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If done right, added instruments to a 5.1 mix can stay true to the origional. But I do understand how it could piss off others. For me it just depends on the intent and the final results.
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post #96 of 244 Old 01-23-2007, 05:15 AM
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One recommendation I will enthusiastically endorse is "Eat A Peach" by the Allman Brothers. I have really enjoyed this mix. Of special note is the last track, Little Martha. Duane and Dickie Betts play together. I have used this track as a reference for sound stage and imaging. Most systems have the two guitars on top of each other, but the SACD puts them apart and separates the two.

The next to last track is Blue Skies. I can just listen to those two songs and improve my mood and outlook ten fold and I guess that is what music is all about.

Mark
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post #97 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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i've just entered the sacd and dvd-a scene (thanks to my oppo 970). i actually bought pink floyd's dark side in anticipation of setting up my system after reading so many great things about it. it's haunting, mesmerizing, fantastic....really great. i've read lots of reviews because i instantly wanted to start a collection. the next one i purchased was allman brothers "live at fillmore east". it is really terrific. you get that feeling of being in a small venue. my favorite tracks are stromy monday, you don't love me, hotlanta, and in memory of elizabeth reed.

i heard about how great steely dan's gaucho was so i purchased the dvd-audio. super clean sound but................ there are some differences on it that i don't like. on "hey nineteen" and "time out of mind" there are missing background vocals and horns and it ruins the songs in my opinion. is the sacd the same? or is this just on the dvd-a version? on the dvd-a, you can select the surround mix or the stereo mix. when i select the stereo mix, the background vocals are there..... but not on the surround mix.

another disappointment: i just bought the goodbye yellow brick road sacd last nite. the opening track, funeral for a friend, is not a good mix in my opinion. i'm not sure what it is because it's been several years since i've heard the stereo version but there's obviosly something missing. i even stopped it and checked all my settings to make sure everything was right. overall, i thought the quality of the fidelity was subpar. pretty disappointed since it cost $30.
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post #98 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 09:55 AM
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What's your speaker set-up? Generally speaking, SACD and DVD-A don't have downmix capabilities to 4.0, or anything else other than 2.0. Not missing a channel are you?
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post #99 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

i've just entered the sacd and dvd-a scene (thanks to my oppo 970). i actually bought pink floyd's dark side in anticipation of setting up my system after reading so many great things about it. it's haunting, mesmerizing, fantastic....really great. i've read lots of reviews because i instantly wanted to start a collection. the next one i purchased was allman brothers "live at fillmore east". it is really terrific. you get that feeling of being in a small venue. my favorite tracks are stromy monday, you don't love me, hotlanta, and in memory of elizabeth reed.

i heard about how great steely dan's gaucho was so i purchased the dvd-audio. super clean sound but................ there are some differences on it that i don't like. on "hey nineteen" and "time out of mind" there are missing background vocals and horns and it ruins the songs in my opinion. is the sacd the same? or is this just on the dvd-a version? on the dvd-a, you can select the surround mix or the stereo mix. when i select the stereo mix, the background vocals are there..... but not on the surround mix.

another disappointment: i just bought the goodbye yellow brick road sacd last nite. the opening track, funeral for a friend, is not a good mix in my opinion. i'm not sure what it is because it's been several years since i've heard the stereo version but there's obviosly something missing. i even stopped it and checked all my settings to make sure everything was right. overall, i thought the quality of the fidelity was subpar. pretty disappointed since it cost $30.


Very strange. I have the DVD-A Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and I consider it one of my reference discs. Funeral For a Friend is freekin' spetacular on my set up as are most of the other tracks. Don't know what to tell ya. Welcome to the surround music world, though. There is some awesome music out there.


Bill
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post #100 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

What's your speaker set-up? Generally speaking, SACD and DVD-A don't have downmix capabilities to 4.0, or anything else other than 2.0. Not missing a channel are you?

Maybe not using 5.1 analog input?
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post #101 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jacket_fan View Post

One recommendation I will enthusiastically endorse is "Eat A Peach" by the Allman Brothers. I have really enjoyed this mix.

I hadn't previously been a big Allmans fan, but I bought the "Eat A Peach" SACD because I thought those guitars would sound great in high rez surround mix.

I like the CD on the whole, but the drum solo (on Moutain Jam maybe?) confuses me. It sounds like the drum kit is in the Front Right channel but then you get occasional beats (almost like a call and response) out of the Front Left channel.

Did the Allmans have more than one drummer or percussionist? There's no additional percussionist credited in the liner notes, so it seems like the mix distributes the beats to the Front Left channel on a selective basis, which I find to be distracting on a live recording.

If it were a studio recording, I would say you could put the instruments wherever you want whenever you want, a la the Flaming Lips.
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post #102 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

What's your speaker set-up? Generally speaking, SACD and DVD-A don't have downmix capabilities to 4.0, or anything else other than 2.0. Not missing a channel are you?


it's 5.1

i have a pioneer 816 receiver so i had to use analog inputs(no hdmi).

the first time i listened to it(gaucho), it was as if i was missing a channel. but the pink floyd sacd definitely works as it should. so does the allman brothers disc. so i thought it might be that it's a dvd-a. on "hey nineteen", i mentioned that the background vocals were missing. that's not entirely true. actually, there's one voice (fagen) singing background and it sounds strange. on "time out of mind", the background vocals are completely missing and so is the horn that comes in at the same time.

do you guys have the dvd-a? or the sacd?
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post #103 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryewhiskey View Post

I hadn't previously been a big Allmans fan, but I bought the "Eat A Peach" SACD because I thought those guitars would sound great in high rez surround mix.

I like the CD on the whole, but the drum solo (on Moutain Jam maybe?) confuses me. It sounds like the drum kit is in the Front Right channel but then you get occasional beats (almost like a call and response) out of the Front Left channel.

Did the Allmans have more than one drummer or percussionist? There's no additional percussionist credited in the liner notes, so it seems like the mix distributes the beats to the Front Left channel on a selective basis, which I find to be distracting on a live recording.

If it were a studio recording, I would say you could put the instruments wherever you want whenever you want, a la the Flaming Lips.


taken from a review on the live at fillmore east album:
The songs on this CD, only seven, were originally in an album released as a double LP. Two of the tracks were long enough to each take up an entire LP side. Gregg Allman on keyboards, Dickie Betts on guitar, Berry Oakley on bass, Butch Trucks and Jaimoe Jai Johanny on percussion, do they ever jam and solo.
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post #104 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

taken from a review on the live at fillmore east album:
The songs on this CD, only seven, were originally in an album released as a double LP. Two of the tracks were long enough to each take up an entire LP side. Gregg Allman on keyboards, Dickie Betts on guitar, Berry Oakley on bass, Butch Trucks and Jaimoe Jai Johanny on percussion, do they ever jam and solo.


Thanks for clarifying that. I feel a lot more comfortable about the mix now.
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post #105 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 02:04 PM
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regarding my experience w/ the gaucho dvd-a: i found this review on amazon.com and it pretty much sums up what i'm hearing...........



"i ve just been listening to my copy of gaucho on dvd audio for the first time on a proper kick off 5.1 system, and jeez what a shock, reading how everybody seems to think this is one of the best 5,1 mixes they have heard. well unless sacd is a different mix to the dvd, then i must say it is shocking , ok the stereo mix sounds excellent but the 5.1 remix has decided to remove the brecker brothers horns and all manner of backing vocals and odds and sods, on the brilliant hey nineteen donald fagens vocal is so exposed he sounds like a out of tune neil young on helium. for goodness sake what the hell were they thinking. .FACT.. the original vinyl mastering is by far the best sounding version i have ever heard, warm clean , fat loud crisp every thing music should sound like, so stop kidding yourselves, just because something you are familiar with,but maybe a little bored of suddenly sounds open and fresh it don t mean it sounds better.........i give this item 3 stars for the warm stereo mix only....."
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post #106 of 244 Old 02-07-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

regarding my experience w/ the gaucho dvd-a: i found this review on amazon.com and it pretty much sums up what i'm hearing...........



"i ve just been listening to my copy of gaucho on dvd audio for the first time on a proper kick off 5.1 system, and jeez what a shock, reading how everybody seems to think this is one of the best 5,1 mixes they have heard. well unless sacd is a different mix to the dvd, then i must say it is shocking , ok the stereo mix sounds excellent but the 5.1 remix has decided to remove the brecker brothers horns and all manner of backing vocals and odds and sods, on the brilliant hey nineteen donald fagens vocal is so exposed he sounds like a out of tune neil young on helium. for goodness sake what the hell were they thinking. .FACT.. the original vinyl mastering is by far the best sounding version i have ever heard, warm clean , fat loud crisp every thing music should sound like, so stop kidding yourselves, just because something you are familiar with,but maybe a little bored of suddenly sounds open and fresh it don t mean it sounds better.........i give this item 3 stars for the warm stereo mix only....."


I honestly don't know what you guys are hearing (or not hearing) on Gaucho. It is one of the first DVD-As that I bought and I was completely blown away then and still am today. I can't help but think that something is wrong with set-up or the disc. I am really sorry for you because Gaucho is an all-time fave for me.
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post #107 of 244 Old 02-08-2007, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

regarding my experience w/ the gaucho dvd-a: i found this review on amazon.com and it pretty much sums up what i'm hearing...........



"i ve just been listening to my copy of gaucho on dvd audio for the first time on a proper kick off 5.1 system, and jeez what a shock, reading how everybody seems to think this is one of the best 5,1 mixes they have heard. well unless sacd is a different mix to the dvd, then i must say it is shocking , ok the stereo mix sounds excellent but the 5.1 remix has decided to remove the brecker brothers horns and all manner of backing vocals and odds and sods, on the brilliant hey nineteen donald fagens vocal is so exposed he sounds like a out of tune neil young on helium. for goodness sake what the hell were they thinking. .FACT.. the original vinyl mastering is by far the best sounding version i have ever heard, warm clean , fat loud crisp every thing music should sound like, so stop kidding yourselves, just because something you are familiar with,but maybe a little bored of suddenly sounds open and fresh it don t mean it sounds better.........i give this item 3 stars for the warm stereo mix only....."

I don't hear anything missing on 'Hey Nineteen'. Which part of the song are you talking about?

The title track is my fav song on this SACD...This is a great album. The 5.1 uncompressed mix just adds to my enjoyment!
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post #108 of 244 Old 02-09-2007, 04:26 PM
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Are you sure you did not buy the DTS CD of "Guacho". Some were sold in a DVD-A sized case. The DTS CD is a totally different 5.1 mix from the DVD-A/SACD.

If it's in a DVD-A sized case, and there's a large banner stating "DTS SURROUND MUSIC DISC" across the top, you may have the DTS CD.

[Early Adopter]
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post #109 of 244 Old 02-13-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

I don't hear anything missing on 'Hey Nineteen'. Which part of the song are you talking about?

The title track is my fav song on this SACD...This is a great album. The 5.1 uncompressed mix just adds to my enjoyment!


eureka! i found out my problem. it was twofold. i had my analog connection going to the "cd" input because i thought the "dvd/ld" input was taken by my hdmi connection. it turns out that for the sacd & dvd-a to work, you have to connect to the "dvd/ld" input. in addition to that, my receiver (pioneer vsx-816) has a "signal select" button that toggles between auto, digital, analog and DVD 5.1 ch. i have to select DVD 5.1 ch for the receiver to output the sacd or dvd-a. the auto doesn't do it for you. (this is stated in the manual). so now i'm getting all the channels.

hey nineteen and time out of mind have all the background vocals and horn that they're supposed to have. i haven't re-listened to goodbye yellow brick road yet. i suspect it will sound a lot better now. i spent most of the time re-listening to dark side of the moon. wow, i didn't realize i what i was missing. it's totally mesmerizing.

but now i have one more problem. when i select the DVD 5.1 ch, the receiver doesn't let you access any of the sound modes. as a result, i have no EQ control and i'm getting a flat sound. i'm going to dig into the manual some more to see if i can figure out something. hopefully someone on this forum who has this receiver can help me out.
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post #110 of 244 Old 02-13-2007, 08:31 AM
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Most receivers don't let you process the 5.1-channel inputs. That's because the processing on the 2-channel inputs is done by digitising them, processing them and converting back to analogue; and they're too cheap to fit another 4 channels worth of analogue-to-digital converters for a multichannel input that not many people use...

You need to make sure all your basic set-up is replicated in the player - you'll need to set up large/small speaker settings, crossover frequency, distances etc there, as the receiver will just be routing the 5.1 inputs straight to the power amplifier section. It's as if the receiver just becomes a "switch" for that input.
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post #111 of 244 Old 02-13-2007, 08:47 AM
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looking in my manual, there's a footnote in the multichannel analog input section that reads "during playback from the multichannel inputs, you can't use any of the sound features/modes and only the volume and channel levels can be set."

however, there are 2 EQ custom settings where you can make manual EQ adjustments. I just need to find out how to apply one one of those when i'm playing multichannel.

i am able to go into my dvd player (oppo 970) and select from various EQ settings. i selected the "rock" setting but it only enhanced slightly.
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post #112 of 244 Old 02-13-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubadub View Post

looking in my manual, there's a footnote in the multichannel analog input section that reads "during playback from the multichannel inputs, you can't use any of the sound features/modes and only the volume and channel levels can be set."

however, there are 2 EQ custom settings where you can make manual EQ adjustments. I just need to find out how to apply one one of those when i'm playing multichannel.

i am able to go into my dvd player (oppo 970) and select from various EQ settings. i selected the "rock" setting but it only enhanced slightly.

Thats cool you got your system set up right now! Like KMO said, make sure you have the distance and Large/small settings correct in the Oppo! Don't worry about the EQ (yet) it may sound better flat if you have everything set up correctly.
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post #113 of 244 Old 02-14-2007, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

Thats cool you got your system set up right now! Like KMO said, make sure you have the distance and Large/small settings correct in the Oppo! Don't worry about the EQ (yet) it may sound better flat if you have everything set up correctly.


well, it does sound really good now. naturally, there's variation from disc to disc. now that i have it set up right, goodbye yellow brick road sounds very dynamic. no need to EQ there. dark side of the moon sounds tremendous. the saxophone in "us and them" is almost a religious experience. gaucho sounds incredibly clean. very discrete. almost too discrete. live at fillmore east (allman brothers) is the only one that definitely needs to be EQ'd. so i just listen to it the way i was before. it sounds terrific.

still, it would be nice to be able to apply some changes to the frequency balance in the multichannel mode. so, how much do you have to spend on a receiver to have EQ control over multichannel? is there another way to do it?
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post #114 of 244 Old 02-14-2007, 08:54 AM
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The best solution is to use a digital transport - HDMI or i.Link, or a proprietary interconnect like Denon Link. Receivers that receive multichannel input digitally can usually then perform all their normal processing on it.

For HDMI, SACD is a bit troublesome at the moment - you need HDMI 1.2 to transfer SACD in its native form (DSD), and at the moment there are a fair few receivers supporting this from Yamaha, Pioneer and Marantz, but no players. Some players can convert SACD to PCM, compatible with HDMI 1.1 receivers - Oppo, Arcam, and the Sony PS3 do this.

Generally, only high-end kit has processing of analogue multichannel. Going for digital interconnects is the cheaper option. I'm very much inclined to Pioneer, who offer i.Link on mid-range kit; i.Link seems like a more elegant system than HDMI.
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post #115 of 244 Old 02-15-2007, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post


Flaming Lips-Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots (DVD-Audio)
Very Very agressive mix which I am almost always in favor of. Unbelievable
Bass. Dynamic range out the ying yang!


Pink Floyd-DSOTM (DVD-Audio)
I perfer the agressive AP mix over the SACD. SQ is not quite as "clean or
dynamic" as the SACD but the mix is just better 90% of the recording IMO.


I hate to nit-pick, but the Flaming Lips album has almost zero dynamic range it's that heavily compressed, and the Floyd DVD-A of DSOTM is not from the SQ matrix, but from the master tapes.
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post #116 of 244 Old 02-15-2007, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by neil wilkes View Post

I hate to nit-pick, but the Flaming Lips album has almost zero dynamic range it's that heavily compressed, and the Floyd DVD-A of DSOTM is not from the SQ matrix, but from the master tapes.

Zero dynamic range compared to what? The Soft Bulletin is recorded at a very high (loud) level. I wouldn't put "Robots" in that class if I remember correctly.

Who said anything about the "SQ Matrix"? SQ=Sound Quality
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post #117 of 244 Old 03-04-2007, 07:38 AM
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So where's the best online source for buying DVD-A discs? (I don't have SACD)??
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post #118 of 244 Old 03-07-2007, 11:02 PM
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www.SA-CD.net is great for seeing what SACDs are out there. But so far not much for DVDA.

well... This isn't it either but it is a list of a lot of the first 750 or so DVDA titles released.


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library.
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post #119 of 244 Old 03-08-2007, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tiggers View Post

www.SA-CD.net is great for seeing what SACDs are out there. But so far not much for DVDA.

well... This isn't it either but it is a list of a lot of the first 750 or so DVDA titles released.

Thanks. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but it sure seems to me DVD-A is a dead/dying format. So little new being released. But I digress...
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post #120 of 244 Old 03-24-2007, 12:06 PM
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good input! i have bought a couple off of others recommendations

my personal favorite is Pink Floyd - SACD

but i was shocked to see no mention of the SACD Ludacris "Chicken and Beer"

I'll be where I'm at!

PS3: Manley23
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