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post #10051 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 06:50 AM
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So my very first DVD-A arrived yesterday (Metallica/ "Black Album"). I enjoyed it thoroughly, but wish I wasn't in an apartment so I could REALLY crank it out loud.

I have a few questions. (My player is a Panasonic F87 - multi disc player. my receiver is a Yamaha RX-A3010). I have this player connected now both through the analog cables to the multi-channel input as well as via Component (video) and coaxial (digital audio)
(my original connection method for listening to CD's and watching DVD's)

I know that via the HDMI (or if I was using toslink/coaxial) output of the receiver, only the Dolby digital signal is sent, the only way to hear the true uncompressed DVD-A tracks is via the analog outputs. That being said, how do I know that via the analog outputs, I am listening to the true DVD-A and not the lossy DD track? I didn't really see a menu where I select a soundtrack like you do with movies. And my receivers information screen only registers "analog audio input

This album's menu has both a "surround listing" and a "stereo listing". If I choose stereo, must this again only be heard via the analog outputs to get the "full effect"?

I have a question also about sampling rates. It appears that this disc is at 96 KHz for both surround and stereo. I thought stereo tracks will often be at 192KHZ.
Should I set my player at 192, or 96? I guess I am a newbie when it comes to this format.

My receiver actually has 7.1 inputs for its multi-channel, the F87 player only outputs 5.1, which is fine, should I actually shut off my back surrounds on my receiver when utilizing DVD-A , or is there any harm for them being on, but not used? I thought all DCD-A/SACD was 5.1. Which players output 7.1 and for what purpose?

Thank you to any and all that an take the time and consideration to answer my questions.

Thank you

Last edited by billmich; 06-25-2014 at 01:27 PM.
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post #10052 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
So my very first DVD-A arrived yesterday (Metallica/ "Black Album"). I enjoyed it thoroughly, but wish I wasn't in an apartment so I could REALLY crank it out loud.

I have a few questions. (My player is a Panasonic F87 - multi disc player. my receiver is a Yamaha RX-A3010). I have this player connected now both through the analog cables to the multi-channel input as well as via HDMI (my original connection method for listening to CD's and watching DVD's)

I know that via the HDMI (or if I was using toslink/coaxial) output of the receiver, only the Dolby digital signal is sent, the only way to hear the true uncompressed DVD-A tracks is via the analog outputs.
This is not so.

HDMI can carry the lossless signal if your receiver can decode bitstream input. That way you let the receiver do the conversion to LPCM, apply room correction, etc. and amplify.

If your receiver can accept only LPCM, then set that for HDMI digital signals at the player and you should get the full DVD-A capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
That being said, how do I know that via the analog outputs, I am listening to the true DVD-A and not the lossy DD track? I didn't really see a menu where I select a soundtrack like you do with movies. And my receivers information screen only registers "analog audio input
If you use analog, the player should decode the DVD-A multichannel or stereo and distribute it properly to the right outputs.

Your receiver only does that because the player is doing the heavy lifting, decoding the signal, digital to analog conversion. The receiver is only applying amplification and volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
This album's menu has both a "surround listing" and a "stereo listing". If I choose stereo, must this again only be heard via the analog outputs to get the "full effect"?
No. If you use HDMI for lossless (or toslink/coax, for lossy) your receiver will take the incoming signal and process it correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
I have a question also about sampling rates. It appears that this disc is at 96 KHz for both surround and stereo. I thought stereo tracks will often be at 192KHZ.
Should I set my player at 192, or 96? I guess I am a newbie when it comes to this format.
I would use the native mode that comes in and let it play at that. If you force 192 and it's coming in at 44 of 96, for example, you will need to upsample to 192. Why process the signal more than you have to. If you have a setting to use whatever sampling rate it was produced at, I'd use that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
My receiver actually has 7.1 inputs for its multi-channel, the F87 player only outputs 5.1, which is fine, should I actually shut off my back surrounds on my receiver when utilizing DVD-A , or is there any harm for them being on, but not used? I thought all DCD-A/SACD was 5.1.
I would think your receiver would be able to sense the connections and use the ones it has. Mine does, so it's not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Which players output 7.1 and for what purpose?

Thank you to any and all that an take the time and consideration to answer my questions.

Thank you
The 7.1 is for movies.

It's fun playing DVD-A's. It is a mostly dead format, but produces excellent sound.
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post #10053 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
So my very first DVD-A arrived yesterday (Metallica/ "Black Album"). I enjoyed it thoroughly, but wish I wasn't in an apartment so I could REALLY crank it out loud.

I have a few questions. (My player is a Panasonic F87 - multi disc player. my receiver is a Yamaha RX-A3010). I have this player connected now both through the analog cables to the multi-channel input as well as via HDMI (my original connection method for listening to CD's and watching DVD's)

I know that via the HDMI (or if I was using toslink/coaxial) output of the receiver, only the Dolby digital signal is sent, the only way to hear the true uncompressed DVD-A tracks is via the analog outputs. That being said, how do I know that via the analog outputs, I am listening to the true DVD-A and not the lossy DD track? I didn't really see a menu where I select a soundtrack like you do with movies. And my receivers information screen only registers "analog audio input

This album's menu has both a "surround listing" and a "stereo listing". If I choose stereo, must this again only be heard via the analog outputs to get the "full effect"?

I have a question also about sampling rates. It appears that this disc is at 96 KHz for both surround and stereo. I thought stereo tracks will often be at 192KHZ.
Should I set my player at 192, or 96? I guess I am a newbie when it comes to this format.

My receiver actually has 7.1 inputs for its multi-channel, the F87 player only outputs 5.1, which is fine, should I actually shut off my back surrounds on my receiver when utilizing DVD-A , or is there any harm for them being on, but not used? I thought all DCD-A/SACD was 5.1. Which players output 7.1 and for what purpose?

Thank you to any and all that an take the time and consideration to answer my questions.

Thank you
I'm pretty sure you can play DVD-Audio at full resolution via HDMI with your 3010 receiver because I am able to do so with my Yamaha RX-V1800, which is several years older. I use my Oppo DV-980H player. This is assuming that your Panasonic F87 is indeed a DVD-Audio player. There may also be a setting in your F87 to tell it to use max resolution of 96 or 192kHz for LPCM output, and I would select 192, since some DVD-Audio discs have a stereo option at 192. As mentioned, sending the bitstream from the DVD-Audio player is also an option, and I would certainly think the 3010 can accept bitstream.

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post #10054 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 08:48 AM
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thank you to both you guys!!!. I have learned a lot and will fiddle some more when I get home. I am especially interested in using the HDMI/LPCM option

for some reason I thought that these discs could only send out the lossless signal via the analog because of concerns about copy protection and piracy
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post #10055 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
This is not so.

HDMI can carry the lossless signal if your receiver can decode bitstream input. That way you let the receiver do the conversion to LPCM, apply room correction, etc. and amplify.

If your receiver can accept only LPCM, then set that for HDMI digital signals at the player and you should get the full DVD-A capabilities.





No. If you use HDMI for lossless (or toslink/coax, for lossy) your receiver will take the incoming signal and process it correctly.


so it sounds like I have to set my receiver to accept this LPCM signal for me to get the full effect


and I don't want any lossy...only lossless as that what I paid the higher price for...

although I am sure a surround sound Dolby mix is still quite nice, I don't want to settle for less than the lest
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post #10056 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 05:40 PM
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Well after checking at home my Panasonic model number is DVD F 87. This unit does not have an HDMI out it only has a coaxial digital out and it does appear that it only plays 2.0 through that output

I cannot find any way of being able to actually have it send multi channel through the digital output


Is it possible that this unit will downmix mix it to 2.0 through the digital output and the only way to get the true surroundsound is via the analog?

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post #10057 of 10312 Old 06-18-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Well after checking at home my Panasonic model number is DVD F 87. This unit does not have an HDMI out it only has a coaxial digital out and it does appear that it only plays 2.0 through that output

I cannot find any way of being able to actually have it send multi channel through the digital output


Is it possible that this unit will don't mix it to 2.0 through the digital output and the only way to get the true surroundsound is via the analog?
Yes, if it does NOT have a HDMI output, then you will have to use the 5.1 analog outputs to get the high rez audio. This means you will need six interconnect cables.

If I were you, I'd try to pick up a used Oppo BDP-83, which will play Blu-ray discs(including Blu-ray music discs, which are sort of the successor to DVD-Audio), in addition to DVD-Audio and SACD, all via HDMI.

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post #10058 of 10312 Old 06-19-2014, 06:31 AM
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OK, so after a night of playing around I have discovered the following. I forgot to mention that I also have a Panasonic DVD Recorder the EH55 that also supports DVD-audio; I never use it for music or CD's....until maybe now.
conclusions/findings:

Evidently, using coaxial or Toslink will only provide 2.0 audio output from these outputs on the DVD-audio track. (noted above)

My DVD recorder does have an HDMI output (where my 5-disc DVD "player" does not) . Utilizing this player and the HDMI cabling, I was able to send a 5.1 signal to my receiver, which is extra nice because my receiver can then convert that to even better sounding 7.1 (via Dolby PLIIx music processing ).
I had wondered how one accesses the DD or DTS tracks, I basically stumbled upon this in the PLAYERS menu (not on the disc menu). you need to set the PLAYER to read said disc as either DVD-Audio, or DVD-Video.
Now, if set as DVD-Video, then the digital audio outputs (either Toslink or coaxial) can output 5.1 audio, but this is obviously not as hi-resolution as pure DVD-audio tracks.

Hopefully I have gotten this all down. As I said I only have the Metallica disc, as well as some "women of pop" that I picked up cheap on Amazon.

Now all of a sudden I am interested in this Blu-Ray Music disc, I would imagine with greater capacity, it is as good, or better than DVD-A/SACD...am I right?
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post #10059 of 10312 Old 06-19-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Now all of a sudden I am interested in this Blu-Ray Music disc, I would imagine with greater capacity, it is as good, or better than DVD-A/SACD...am I right?
Well, this is a can of worms.

With the exception of a couple of the HFPA bluray discs that I have listened to, most bluray Dolby HD/DTS-HD MA discs are excellent but I would not say the bluray format is superior or better than DVDA or SACD. My personal opinion is that it is the mix or mastering that makes the difference and the care and effort that has gone into making it. If you scroll back through this thread you will find a lot of recommendations for reference recordings in all those formats (along with a few titles in lossy formats and rbcd too). We are starting to see a lot more music blurays coming out so there are bound to be some poor ones mixed in with the good ones as companies try to squeeze bucks out of the same poor recordings just recorded onto a new media. And there are threads here at AVS devoted to that.............
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post #10060 of 10312 Old 06-19-2014, 12:43 PM
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Linda Rondstadt--What's New on DVD-A

Haven't had time to give it a listen, but I've been a big fan of hers for a long time, so I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
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post #10061 of 10312 Old 06-19-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ovation View Post
Linda Rondstadt--What's New on DVD-A

Haven't had time to give it a listen, but I've been a big fan of hers for a long time, so I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
I have that one, and the stereo track is 192/24! I will say, the level of detail in What's New DVD-A is very high, and IMO, Rondstadt is not exactly the best performer I might choose for that music.


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post #10062 of 10312 Old 06-23-2014, 09:41 AM
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Wow that is really cheap for Foreigner 4. I ordered one. Thanks!
I hope the listing wasn't a mistake.

Did you receive your Barnes and Nobles Foreigner 4 DVD-audio?

was it a mistake?



Please let us know, as that price seemed too good to be true
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post #10063 of 10312 Old 06-23-2014, 09:46 AM
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Did you receive your Barnes and Nobles Foreigner 4 DVD-audio?

was it a mistake?



Please let us know, as that price seemed too good to be true
It shipped but I did not receive it yet.

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post #10064 of 10312 Old 06-23-2014, 10:31 AM
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Do you have an ETA yet? Last Monday, you had mentioned that you thought that you would be getting it by the end of last week.
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post #10065 of 10312 Old 06-23-2014, 10:36 AM
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Best selection for rare dvd audio is on E-bay, when you find what you like always check what else they have to offer because they may have there own music store and there is plenty selling for E-bay so just don't go by what they have listed on dvd audio 5.1 also try DTS 5.1 audio or even Blu Ray high fidelity and you find some good 5.1 music
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post #10066 of 10312 Old 06-24-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by watsy1958
Best selection for rare dvd audio is on E-bay, when you find what you like always check what else they have
I just listed a ton of DVD-A and SACD's on eBay (also where I've been buying my discs as well + Amazon Japan).

Here's one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301223185014...84.m1555.l2649

Just select "see other items". I put up a bunch of DVD-A (Seal, Beach Boys, Foreigner, etc.) and SACDs (Michael Jackson, Journey, Wham, Queen, etc.)

-> No longer looking for Hi-Vision LDs <-

(I buried that format finally)

www.16cylinder.com

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post #10067 of 10312 Old 06-24-2014, 12:47 PM
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This is an interesting release today if you like classical music:

http://www.amazon.com/Blu-ray-Signat...635628&sr=1-32

A forty disc collection of BD discs of classical music.

They also show this in BD release today:

http://www.amazon.com/Classics-Discs...639182&sr=1-31

A forty disc collection of BD audio Jazz Big Band Classics.

Studio is listed as BD audio, I have to wonder if they are legit.
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post #10068 of 10312 Old 06-24-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post
Did you receive your Barnes and Nobles Foreigner 4 DVD-audio?

was it a mistake?



Please let us know, as that price seemed too good to be true
Just received my order and, sadly, it is indeed just the CD, NOT a DVD-Audio. Standard plastic CD case, and on the case is a sticker: "Newly Digitally Remastered from the Original Master Tapes".

Really disappointed that a retailer the size of Barnes and Noble would make this sort of mistake in their description. Considering that I'm only out $10, I'm not sure if it is worth a big hassle, but I will contact B&N about this.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Just received my order and, sadly, it is indeed just the CD, NOT a DVD-Audio. Standard plastic CD case, and on the case is a sticker: "Newly Digitally Remastered from the Original Master Tapes".

Really disappointed that a retailer the size of Barnes and Noble would make this sort of mistake in their description. Considering that I'm only out $10, I'm not sure if it is worth a big hassle, but I will contact B&N about this.

Crap that's going to suck for me as well when I get mine!
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post #10070 of 10312 Old 06-24-2014, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrot View Post
Just received my order and, sadly, it is indeed just the CD, NOT a DVD-Audio. Standard plastic CD case, and on the case is a sticker: "Newly Digitally Remastered from the Original Master Tapes".

Really disappointed that a retailer the size of Barnes and Noble would make this sort of mistake in their description. Considering that I'm only out $10, I'm not sure if it is worth a big hassle, but I will contact B&N about this.
Just got mine as well. Just sent an email to both the merchant and B&N. Anyone know anything about this disk. It was done by the Warner remasters series.


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post #10071 of 10312 Old 06-24-2014, 08:20 PM
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Just got mine as well. Just sent an email to both the merchant and B&N. Anyone know anything about this disk. It was done by the Warner remasters series.

Yes, that is the disc I received. I did notice that it says, Made in Germany. Not sure if there is any significance to that.

I also emailed the vendor. I spoke to a lady at Barnes & Noble, and she said the issue would have to be handled entirely through Movie Mars. I stressed to her the importance of B&N taking care to make sure that products were accurately described on their web site, but she did not seem to be very responsive or concerned about it. So, I went further and stated that if I could not count on the accuracy of their product descriptions, I would not likely be purchasing any more from them. At that point, she seemed to be listening a bit better and stated that they would be investigating the situation and taking some action.


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post #10072 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 05:25 AM
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Yes, that is the disc I received. I did notice that it says, Made in Germany. Not sure if there is any significance to that.

I also emailed the vendor. I spoke to a lady at Barnes & Noble, and she said the issue would have to be handled entirely through Movie Mars. I stressed to her the importance of B&N taking care to make sure that products were accurately described on their web site, but she did not seem to be very responsive or concerned about it. So, I went further and stated that if I could not count on the accuracy of their product descriptions, I would not likely be purchasing any more from them. At that point, she seemed to be listening a bit better and stated that they would be investigating the situation and taking some action.

That's a good tactic you use there, one that I'll be borrowing once I get mine in my hand and giving them a mouth full.


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post #10073 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 06:42 AM
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not even HDCD...
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Has anybody heard the SACD version of Flim and the BB's Tricycle? Or the BD-Audio of Tears For Fears The Hurting?

Jeff
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post #10075 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 11:36 AM
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Has anybody heard the SACD version of Flim and the BB's Tricycle? Or the BD-Audio of Tears For Fears The Hurting?

Jeff
I just picked up the blu ray high fidelity of Tear for Fears Hurting sounds really good but it's not in 5.1....
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post #10076 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 11:42 AM
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I just picked up the blu ray high fidelity of Tear for Fears Hurting sounds really good but it's not in 5.1....
I have sort of relented a bit on my 5.1dammitorIdon'tbuy stance. If the audio quality is far better ... admittedly the subjective part ... than the Redbook CD, then I consider buying it. Two-channel in All Channel Stereo on my main theater rig sounds pretty darn good.

Thanks for your comments!

Jeff
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post #10077 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
I have sort of relented a bit on my 5.1dammitorIdon'tbuy stance. If the audio quality is far better ... admittedly the subjective part ... than the Redbook CD, then I consider buying it. Two-channel in All Channel Stereo on my main theater rig sounds pretty darn good.

Thanks for your comments!

Jeff

I have a redbook version of the Hurting and the Vinyl as well, and they both sounds compress as hell ! I always chalked up as early 80's digital recording methods!

Do you have a remaster disc other that the run of the mill regular release?

Dan
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post #10078 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Do you have a remaster disc other that the run of the mill regular release?

Dan
Dunno, Dan. Will need to check. I don't recall, though, re-buying it.

Seeing Fourplay this eve at the Keswick Theater! I am stoked!!

Jeff
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post #10079 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 04:44 PM
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Just got two new ones from Channel Classics DSD site.


Channel Classics CCS SA 23506 Budapest Festival Orchestra, Ivan Fisher, Mahler Symphony #2 , multichannel DSD but in DSF Format






Channel Classics CCS SA 33613 Rick Stotijn Basso Bailando multichannel DSD in DFF format
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South Florida is my Theater
Listen to live music and recreate it at home.

Last edited by wadeh911; 06-27-2014 at 05:48 PM. Reason: DSD streaming fixem
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post #10080 of 10312 Old 06-25-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Has anybody heard the SACD version of Flim and the BB's Tricycle?
Hey Jeff,

I have a number of SACDs from DMP and for the most part they all sound great. But I never came across the Flim & The BB's TriCycle SACD at a decent price. Have you had a chance to listen to it on youtube or anything like that? I bought the Jay Leonhart Salamander Pie SACD and didn't really care for it.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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