What are your most recent Hi-Res purchases? - Page 342 - AVS Forum
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post #10231 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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Nice to see more action on this thread.
Re: The Yes Album.
Not as "rich" sounding as CTTE although in general and overall I think the music is more consistent.
CTTE just has a pristine, full sound to it. Gotta be the difference in the recording between this and TYA.
I have the SACD and BD of CTTE and find the 2-channel to be so close as I'm sure I couldn't pick them a part in a blind test.
Some people ranked the SW 2-channel as of lesser quality, specifically in the bass than the Hoffman one.

I like the 5.1 on both CTTE and TYA and as I'm sure we all agree, Yes music is built for 5.1.

 

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post #10232 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 11:34 AM
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Steven Wilson - Insurgentes (DVD-A)
Quadrophenia: 1973 Studio Album (Blu-ray Pure Audio)
Steven Wilson - Raven That Refused To Sing [Blu-ray Audio]
Steven Wilson - Grace For Drowning
Sarah McLachlan - VH1 Storytellers

I'm hoping the Sarah DVD will have a nice discrete mix.

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post #10233 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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I finally got The Grateful Dead's American Beauty DVD-Audio. I got tired of waiting for the supposed MFSL SACD which may never materialize. I was lucky to get it at a good price, as well.
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post #10234 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 02:14 PM
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I see that there is a hi-res 5.1 mix on the BD of Pink Floyd Division Bell. Anyone have that? If so, how is it??

Jeff
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post #10235 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
I finally got The Grateful Dead's American Beauty DVD-Audio. I got tired of waiting for the supposed MFSL SACD which may never materialize. I was lucky to get it at a good price, as well.
How does it sound??

Jeff
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post #10236 of 10260 Old 08-07-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
How does it sound??

Jeff
It sounds good. I am hesitant to give it a strong recommendation as my only prior frame of reference for the album is an older CD. I will say it's a fine example of Classic Rock rendered in typical Hi-Rez clarity, with better acoustic timbre and vocal clarity.
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post #10237 of 10260 Old 08-08-2014, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
I see that there is a hi-res 5.1 mix on the BD of Pink Floyd Division Bell. Anyone have that? If so, how is it??

Jeff
I was actually very impressed with the presentation of the limited edition DVD release (with 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS). So I guess the Blu-ray audio disc release should be an improvement...

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post #10238 of 10260 Old 08-08-2014, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
I see that there is a hi-res 5.1 mix on the BD of Pink Floyd Division Bell. Anyone have that? If so, how is it??

Jeff
The BD 5.1 is excellent in both DTS-HD Master or PCM, though vocals are buried ever so slightly. That, in part, may be due to the lack of use of the centre channel. Here's a quote from mixer Andy Jackson:

"As I'm sure many of you know, 5.1 is really a cinema format, with the centre channel used to 'hold' dialogue in particular to the centre of the screen for those sitting off centre in a theatre. How to use it in music mixing for home systems is unclear, and many people have adopted different approaches, some more successful than others. Truth is that by and large all we need is quad. Doing this album I pretty chose to ignore it, as it was a safe choice. Same is true mostly with the sub, which I only used occasionally, and then only with sound that was not also in the mains (it was a sub-harmonic generating processor). I've become a bit less conservative since, although still the basic idea that quad is enough is true."

Still, the BD is great, but as you know the entry fee is high. I gave the vinyl to my son as a gift so it worked out for me. Don't know if anyone has done a head to head with the DVD-A and BD.

Bill
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post #10239 of 10260 Old 08-08-2014, 07:37 AM
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Totally disagree with that guy.
Ignore the center channel and the sub.
OMG.

 

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post #10240 of 10260 Old 08-09-2014, 07:38 AM
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Agreed!


One of the great things about multi-channel is that you can put the soloist in the center channel and get a point source voicing. With stereo you get the soloist in both left and right channels and it sounds like they are 12 feet wide!


Put on Jackson Browne's Running on Empty DVD-A and listen Edwardsville Room 124. It's a bunch of musicians sitting around a room, but the recoding has each musician in a separate channel around you. It's like you are sitting on the pizza listening to them jam. Sort of magical.


Mike
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post #10241 of 10260 Old 08-09-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
One of the great things about multi-channel is that you can put the soloist in the center channel and get a point source voicing. With stereo you get the soloist in both left and right channels and it sounds like they are 12 feet wide!
Mike,

I agree that multichannel audio does have the capability to have vocals and center based portions of a recording prominent in the center channel.

But I have to disagree with you when you say "With stereo you get the soloist in both left and right channels and it sounds like they are 12 feet wide!". You are making a broad based statement about stereo recordings. Not all stereo recordings have this issue. It is more how a specific title is mixed than it being in stereo IMO.

I have many well recorded stereo titles where the vocals seem to be coming out of my center speaker. With these recordings there is no illusion of the vocals or the soloist being "12 feet wide".

Bill
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post #10242 of 10260 Old 08-09-2014, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
Agreed!


One of the great things about multi-channel is that you can put the soloist in the center channel and get a point source voicing. With stereo you get the soloist in both left and right channels and it sounds like they are 12 feet wide!


Mike

Have you checked your speaker's wiring polarity?
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post #10243 of 10260 Old 08-10-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post
Have you checked your speaker's wiring polarity?
Yes.


The issue is the same as people trying to play surround movies on a 2 channel system. The "phantom center" does work, and for many people it's fine, but a dedicated center channel is better.


Your ears know that the sound is coming from two speaker that are 12 feet apart. Your brain knows it as well. And then it tries to create the image of a single point source between the two. But it's also much better if that voice is coming from a single speaker right where the artist should be.


Try it out. Find a recording with both a stereo and surround mix. Something with a soloist (singer or instrumentalist). Play both on a surround system, but play the stereo mix using a pure stereo surround mode (otherwise the receiver will extract the common sound and play it in a center channel - you only want the L & R speakers active). It will sound good. Your senses are pretty good and recognizing where the sound should be coming from.


Then play it in surround mode. You'll find the soloist usually sounds better with a single speaker reproducing the single voice.


Mike
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post #10244 of 10260 Old 08-11-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
Yes.

The issue is the same as people trying to play surround movies on a 2 channel system. The "phantom center" does work, and for many people it's fine, but a dedicated center channel is better.

Your ears know that the sound is coming from two speaker that are 12 feet apart. Your brain knows it as well. And then it tries to create the image of a single point source between the two. But it's also much better if that voice is coming from a single speaker right where the artist should be.

Try it out. Find a recording with both a stereo and surround mix. Something with a soloist (singer or instrumentalist). Play both on a surround system, but play the stereo mix using a pure stereo surround mode (otherwise the receiver will extract the common sound and play it in a center channel - you only want the L & R speakers active). It will sound good. Your senses are pretty good and recognizing where the sound should be coming from.

Then play it in surround mode. You'll find the soloist usually sounds better with a single speaker reproducing the single voice.

Mike
Oh gosh, we're discussing MCH mixing and reproduction theory?

Andy Jackson has a preference for his mixing. I disagree with his premise, so therefore with his conclusion/preference as well. Perhaps he will evolve?

The reason the CC/"dialog" channel is present *is* to anchor the dialog to the center of the image, both sonic and visual. A phantom center only "works" for a listener sitting on the line equidistant from L&R. Move much to the left or right and it collapses. I'd guess that many of us listen to music and watch movies as a singular experience. I purposely designed my theater with an odd number of seats per row so I COULD have a sweet spot seat.

That said, I am not always alone, so I see the value of the CC for both movies and music. There is no downside whatsoever with 5.1 over 4.1 ... or 5.0 over 4.0 .... on a properly designed and calibrated system.

Jeff
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post #10245 of 10260 Old 08-11-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
Your ears know that the sound is coming from two speaker that are 12 feet apart. Your brain knows it as well. And then it tries to create the image of a single point source between the two.
If the speakers are 12' apart and you are sitting 8' back then that coould be an issue. But if ones system is setup properly and the distance between the R & L speakers is correct in regard to the distance one sits then properly mixed stereo recordings will sound correct with vocals floating between the speakers. Of course this is if you are sitting in the sweet spot between both speakers.

Bill

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post #10246 of 10260 Old 08-11-2014, 02:26 PM
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As far as the Andy Jackson mix of The Division Bell goes...though I would have preferred he use the centre more than he did, it was his choice and it still sounds great. Also remember, just to keep this in context with all the MC mixes coming out today, his MC mix of The Division Bell was done 10 years ago, so I'm not so quick to throw him under the bus.
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post #10247 of 10260 Old 08-11-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tornado Red View Post
As far as the Andy Jackson mix of The Division Bell goes...though I would have preferred he use the centre more than he did, it was his choice and it still sounds great. Also remember, just to keep this in context with all the MC mixes coming out today, his MC mix of The Division Bell was done 10 years ago, so I'm not so quick to throw him under the bus.
OMG, so they've had this in the can for a decade?

Semi-related, I am betting that Alan Parsons, who several years ago remastered his catalog, did MCH mixes as well. A few years back I emailed his fan site about MCH versions being released. I received the somewhat cryptic reply that "it is Sony's decision." Oh my, I spend big for that!

Jeff

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post #10248 of 10260 Old 08-12-2014, 06:25 PM
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Oh gosh, we're discussing MCH mixing and reproduction theory?

Andy Jackson has a preference for his mixing. I disagree with his premise, so therefore with his conclusion/preference as well. Perhaps he will evolve?

The reason the CC/"dialog" channel is present *is* to anchor the dialog to the center of the image, both sonic and visual. A phantom center only "works" for a listener sitting on the line equidistant from L&R. Move much to the left or right and it collapses. I'd guess that many of us listen to music and watch movies as a singular experience. I purposely designed my theater with an odd number of seats per row so I COULD have a sweet spot seat.

That said, I am not always alone, so I see the value of the CC for both movies and music. There is no downside whatsoever with 5.1 over 4.1 ... or 5.0 over 4.0 .... on a properly designed and calibrated system.

Jeff
Yeah I do disagree with him.
He's essentially talking about a Quad mix but how many people calibrate their sound systems for quad or position their speakers for quad?
His statement that 5.1 is a "cinema" configuration fails, imo.
Cinema has spoken dialog, singing, music, FX etc.
How far is that really from an audio recording like DSOTM?
Personally I don't want to go back to Quad, my system is not setup or calibrated for Quad.
I do have enough speakers and a system that is calibrated for both 7.2 and 5.2 with the rear speakers at 120 or 110 or whatever from the listening position that the surround sound spec defines.
If he wants to be the only engineer who employs this method fine, his products aren't going to get any of my money.
Imagine if a sound track engineer put forth that same explanation for why he mixed The Hobbit in 4.0?
Wouldn't fly with a Saturn V booster.

 

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post #10249 of 10260 Old 08-12-2014, 08:43 PM
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I had a quick listen to TDB on the weekend, but I made the mistake of jumping straight to the hi-rez surround WYWH, which seemed far superior.

I need to go back, have a longer, more relaxed listen, and see if my first impression was correct.

Cheers,
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post #10250 of 10260 Old 08-13-2014, 06:35 PM
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Dang you Bill!!
Saw your post on SHF about cdjapan having 6 copies of the SHM-SACD Countdown To Ecstasy and pulled the goldarn trigger!
I've been hemming and hawing about this for days, best Steely Dan, imo.
Saved $$$ over Acoustic Sounds and their usury single item shipping charges.
There were 3 in stock when I ordered, now there's 2.

 

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post #10251 of 10260 Old 08-13-2014, 08:31 PM
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Dang you Bill!!
Saw your post on SHF about cdjapan having 6 copies of the SHM-SACD Countdown To Ecstasy and pulled the goldarn trigger!
I've been hemming and hawing about this for days, best Steely Dan, imo.
Saved $$$ over Acoustic Sounds and their usury single item shipping charges.
There were 3 in stock when I ordered, now there's 2.
Milt,

Sorry about that . From what I have read you will not be disappointed. I ordered the Countdown to Ecstasy and the Pretzel Logic SHM-SACDs from cdjapan. Pretzel Logic won't be released till the end of September. I decided to have both SACDs shipped together to save a few bucks. I'm sure it will be well worth the wait .

Bill

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post #10252 of 10260 Old 08-13-2014, 10:18 PM
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I forgive you.
I saw Steely Dan at the Paramount in Seattle when Pretzel Logic came out.
Unbelievably good concert.
Michael MacDonald and Skunk Baxter were with them.
Jimmy Hodder and Jeff Porcaro playing drums and The BlackBerries singing backup.
Wow.

Honestly, I'd burned out on the 1st 3 albums years ago but looking at the tracks on CTE reminded me just how good this album is.

 

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post #10253 of 10260 Old 08-14-2014, 12:48 PM
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Poll: Why Isn't Multichannel Music More Popular?

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post #10254 of 10260 Old 08-14-2014, 04:25 PM
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What are your most recent Hi-Res purchases?

Quote:
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Milt,

Sorry about that . From what I have read you will not be disappointed. I ordered the Countdown to Ecstasy and the Pretzel Logic SHM-SACDs from cdjapan. Pretzel Logic won't be released till the end of September. I decided to have both SACDs shipped together to save a few bucks. I'm sure it will be well worth the wait .

Bill
I saw this and went cdjapan to order. They declined my credit card for $40! ROFL!!! Maybe my AA sponsor beat me there!

Update: I guess they figured it out. Debit hit my card yesterday. Looking forward to this one!


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Those of you who don't like quad mixes may want to voice your opinion to Andy Jackson himself. He's been coming to the QQ site pretty regularly now for a few weeks to answer questions. He seems like a really cool guy. But to the point, he is preparing to mix his current album into surround and actually asked QQ members whether they would prefer 5.1, 5.0, 4.1 or 4.0. So, head on over to QQ and tell him what you think.
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post #10258 of 10260 Old 08-18-2014, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
QQ?
quadraphonicquad.com. Sorry- I thought everyone was at least aware of this site. The #1 reference site for surround music imo, w/ polls for the vast majority of surround releases, each in its own dedicated thread w/ comments from long-time surroundaholics, covering every MCH format (dvd-a, sacd, BR, DTS-cd's, quad vinyl, dvd-v). I've found these threads indispensable in helping me w/ my buying choices (not to mention alerting me to releases of which I was unaware). There's also a ranking of all these releases by average score, so you can look to see if there's any reference titles you're missing. It's a great community, highly recommended. Andy Jackson showed up shortly after TDB's 5.1 release. The man himself, Steven Wilson, has done a Q & A there 2 separate times. Neil Wilkes, who authors many dvd-a's (e.g. both Yes releases) is a regular there, as is Kal Rubinson (long-time audio mag writer) and others inside the music industry. Check it out.
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post #10259 of 10260 Old 08-19-2014, 10:21 AM
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In case you don't want to spend 15 minutes looking for the thread here's the link:
http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/foru...ng-and-the-Mix
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post #10260 of 10260 Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Dang you Bill!!
Saw your post on SHF about cdjapan having 6 copies of the SHM-SACD Countdown To Ecstasy and pulled the goldarn trigger!
I've been hemming and hawing about this for days, best Steely Dan, imo.
Saved $$$ over Acoustic Sounds and their usury single item shipping charges.
There were 3 in stock when I ordered, now there's 2.
And another one's gone, and another one's gone, and another one bites the dust ......
travelling down under with Donald Fagen and The Nightfly, just for company.

My wife and I love Gaucho and Aja. We saw Steely Dan live in Adelaide perhaps a year ago.
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Last edited by Benje2; Yesterday at 07:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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