Best sub EQ under $400 - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 1785 Old 10-24-2010, 09:17 AM
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In addition to 8033, another option is the Velodyne SMS-1 which has a built-in, analog 80Hz hp filter for your main speakers as well as EQ and display/measurement facilities to help you balance the subs with the main speakers.

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post #1562 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltm View Post

For those who cares, this is the info in DSPeaker's web site regarding connecting Antimod with a typical 2 channel preamp.



http://www.dspeaker.com/en/support/u...ith-8033.shtml

I would like to ask the folks from DSPeaker, other than the stereo-in in the 8033s does it indeed carry different software (or algorithms or filters) than a 8033c?

The S-version is improved slightly in every single area, THD, SNR, connectors, powering behaviour and even the software has it's tweaks. However, anybody having a fully functional setup with 8033C (or 8033B) is not advised to upgrade into the 8033S. The most significant difference is it's connectivity into a stereo setup with active summation.
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post #1563 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 04:24 AM
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I have the 8033 and I am using to EQ my Rythmik F12SE. Before I bought the 8033 I used the F12SE's PEQ to lower a peak I have around 42Hz. When I did the calibration with the 8033 I did not disable the PEQ. Would it be better to recalibrate with the PEQ disabled to let the 8033 do its thing. Or is it fine using the PEQ and let the 8033 handle other frequency issues? Or does it really not matter which way the 8033 is used in this regard?

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post #1564 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 05:37 AM
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If anyone one is interested in manual EQing, a powerful new and low cost option called the MiniDSP.com is $160 shipped. It has more functionality then these other choices, its only missing the auto EQing.

Why do I say more powerful, well because it allows for transfer functions (Bi-Quads) which is the raw filtering formulas behind all these "pre-packaged" solutions.

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post #1565 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Well asked, as those are my exact concerns.




I think it is common knowledge that it is possible to connect one Antimode (or any other sub-eq processor) to multiple subs...from a LFE out.

The poster above did bring up good points, and I don't think that I have read a satisfactory answer yet. IMO, I think we are ignoring theoretical discrepancies when using 1 sub processor for multiple non-symmetrically placed subs. In reality it HAS worked for many, so I guess that set-up can work.

Yes, it can, as I posted:

Quote:


If you are using the ANTIMODE 8033 in a HT system with the LFE output (which is mono) then all you need is a single unit. That unit will "see" your multiple subs as ONE SUB and equalize as a single unit.


Regards,

John
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post #1566 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltm View Post

Roger,

Let me show you a photo of a pretty insane friend's setup before we continue with our discussion. That was a massive nightmare seeing him doing the placement of the bass reproducing panels. This system is now performing admirably.

He spend huge amount of effort on the fine tuning and placement. He didi not use any EQ at all in this setup. I would not do that personally. The Antimod and Bob's comments got me re-think. I believe P-EQ is a good technology to help with subs integration to 2 channel.

The front speaker is a pair of Magnepan 3.6 while the back panel is TWO pairs of Tympani 4's bass panel.


Interesting set up.

With that great a distance (=delay) unless he has implemented a method to adjust timing (phase) relationships between the subs and the mains, he is not hearing accurate bass.

It has been said that even the AntiMode causes a small timing error due to the time it takes the DSP to compute the signal.

Regards,

John
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post #1567 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

In addition to 8033, another option is the Velodyne SMS-1 which has a built-in, analog 80Hz hp filter for your main speakers as well as EQ and display/measurement facilities to help you balance the subs with the main speakers.

Hi Kal,

I have heard nothing but good things about the SMS-1.

I am under the impression that it "outputs" only mono. Since I have not used one I do not know if that is true or not.

And of course it is arguable that bass below a certain frequency need be in stereo.

But for the most fastidious among us, I might suggest an additional alternative (and it may be difficult to find) but one could use the following:

1) The new STEREO AntiMode 8033S

with

2) The NHT X-2 (now discontinued)

This combination offers a very nice group of features and adjustments.

What do you think? (I have seen you make favorable comments on the X-2 before)

See any downsides/upsides?

Regards,

John
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post #1568 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

1) The new STEREO AntiMode 8033S

If you read the specs carefully 8033S is "stereo input (mono output)".

In addition to other small tweaks it replaces the external passive summing cable with internal active summing and continues the preferred (mono) way of LFE reproduction. (Someone more knowledgeable can sum up why mono LFE is better than stereo in 99.9% of the cases, even when you have 2 or more subs.)
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post #1569 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

I have heard nothing but good things about the SMS-1.

I am under the impression that it "outputs" only mono. Since I have not used one I do not know if that is true or not.

Yes. Mono sub output but it will apply the HP filter to the main channels and sum the bass as needed.

Quote:


But for the most fastidious amoung us, I might suggest an additional alternative (and it may be difficult to find) but one could use the following:

1) The new STEREO AntiMode 8033S

with

2) The NHT X-2 (now discontinued)

This combination offers a very nice group of features and adjustments.

What do you think? (I have seen you make favorable comments on the X-2 before)

See any downsides/upsides?

Cost?

Kal Rubinson

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post #1570 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Yes. Mono sub output but it will apply the HP filter to the main channels and sum the bass as needed.

Cost?

Hmmmm....And as the poster above pointed out it would ALSO still take TWO of the regular 8033 to be true stereo.

Back to the drawing boards.

Regards,

John
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post #1571 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1bert View Post

If you read the specs carefully 8033S is "stereo input (mono output)".

In addition to other small tweaks it replaces the external passive summing cable with internal active summing and continues the preferred (mono) way of LFE reproduction. (Someone more knowledgeable can sum up why mono LFE is better than stereo in 99.9% of the cases, even when you have 2 or more subs.)


Good Find.

I think the Stereo/Mono question is defined as to the upper frequencys included.

If the level is high enough to provide localization then there may be some benefit to stereo. If it is below that point, then it is likely pointless to make the effort.

Regards,

John
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post #1572 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEL79 View Post

The S-version is improved slightly in every single area, THD, SNR, connectors, powering behaviour and even the software has it's tweaks. However, anybody having a fully functional setup with 8033C (or 8033B) is not advised to upgrade into the 8033S. The most significant difference is it's connectivity into a stereo setup with active summation.

Way to go - appreciate your incremental improvements on the new model, and your honesty regarding the upgrade-desires (disease is more like it) you know many AVS members have.

I have been wanting one for some time, and I'm just strange enough to want go ahead and order simply because of your forthrightness about this particular point.

creative>energy

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post #1573 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

Yes, it can, as I posted:

...really?

I was referring to the lack of delay going to each sub, when one LFE signal is split for multiple subs.

This is what was originally posted by maud'dib in reference to having 1 sub processor used in a multiple sub set-up:

Quote:


...due to the fact that each sub is at different locations in room and distance is difference for each, and room effect from each sub is also different?

As I said earlier, one 8033 for mulitple subs (placed in a non-symmetrical fashion) have worked wonderful for some, but theoretically it may cause some inaccuracy in bass.
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post #1574 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

...really?

I was referring to the lack of delay going to each sub, when one LFE signal is split for multiple subs.

This is what was originally posted by maud'dib in reference to having 1 sub processor used in a multiple sub set-up:



As I said earlier, one 8033 for mulitple subs (placed in a non-symmetrical fashion) have worked wonderful for some, but theoretically it may cause some inaccuracy in bass.

With the same sub, duals or qauds and gain match them for most excellent bass via the Anti Mode.

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post #1575 of 1785 Old 10-25-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

If anyone one is interested in manual EQing, a powerful new and low cost option called the MiniDSP.com is $160 shipped. It has more functionality then these other choices, its only missing the auto EQing.

Why do I say more powerful, well because it allows for transfer functions (Bi-Quads) which is the raw filtering formulas behind all these "pre-packaged" solutions.

penngray,

I like that price for the MiniDSP. I addition to filters, what else would I need to purchase? Would I need a calibrated mic? An external sound card for a laptop?

Thanks,
r.
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post #1576 of 1785 Old 10-26-2010, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

If anyone one is interested in manual EQing, a powerful new and low cost option called the MiniDSP.com is $160 shipped. It has more functionality then these other choices, its only missing the auto EQing.

Why do I say more powerful, well because it allows for transfer functions (Bi-Quads) which is the raw filtering formulas behind all these "pre-packaged" solutions.

Heyas Penngray,

Do you think I could properly tame both of my DTS-10s with one of those MiniDSPs you mentioned?


Forin
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post #1577 of 1785 Old 10-27-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

In addition to 8033, another option is the Velodyne SMS-1 which has a built-in, analog 80Hz hp filter for your main speakers as well as EQ and display/measurement facilities to help you balance the subs with the main speakers.

Kal,

Thanks for the heads up on the SMS-1. I am curious have you compared the SMS-1 against the Antimod 8033?

Anyone here in the forum did that, please kindly share your experience. The SMS-1 seems to be a good price given the features in the package.

I read this guide http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf , it seems to be a little more flexible that the Antimod. However, some time simplicity is better than complexity.

Thx.
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post #1578 of 1785 Old 10-27-2010, 05:13 PM
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I have used both and probably made some comments comparing them but I cannot recall anything specific. The 8033 is a better EQ but it will not provide the HP filter for your main speakers nor will you be able to see the response nor will you be able to adjust the response and level the subs with your main speakers. Your move.

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post #1579 of 1785 Old 10-27-2010, 08:18 PM
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I'm using them both together.

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post #1580 of 1785 Old 10-27-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I'm using them both together.

Would you share what is the rationale behind using two? I suppose different units would be doing different jobs, say 8033 for EQ while SMS-1 for visualization?

Base on the impression I have thus far, 8033 has some very well engineered parametric EQ algorithms in a simple to use package. While SMS-1 is sort of like a jack of all trade that do many things in a nice package.

Am I right? Thx for the enlightenment in advance.

BTW, do you use it in a 2-channel or HT context?
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post #1581 of 1785 Old 10-27-2010, 11:26 PM
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Full surround for movies. First the Anti Mode to EQ all four Empires (subs are all gain matched) to get a single output. Then the SMS-1 to further EQ the bottom end down to 16 hz and set a nice house curve. You can't do 4 subs with one SMS-1. It works fantastic!

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post #1582 of 1785 Old 10-28-2010, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

You can't do 4 subs with one SMS-1. It works fantastic!

So you need to use 1x Antimod + 4x SMS-1? This must be earth shattering!
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post #1583 of 1785 Old 10-28-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltm View Post

So you need to use 1x Antimod + 4x SMS-1? This must be earth shattering!

NO the setup is = Pioneer SC-37 receiver -- SMS-1 --Anti Mode -- 2 sets of "Y" spliters off the LFE cabe -- 4 subs

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post #1584 of 1785 Old 10-29-2010, 06:57 AM
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How do I connect the 8033s into a stereo/sub setup?
I have Mac preamp, SVS Ultra sub, and Mac amp.
Thanks.
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post #1585 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winger51 View Post

How do I connect the 8033s into a stereo/sub setup?
I have Mac preamp, SVS Ultra sub, and Mac amp.
Thanks.

You simply connect the pre-amp outputs to 8033S, and then 8033S to the Ultra Sub with single RCA or XLR (w. special balancing adapter).
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post #1586 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

NO the setup is = Pioneer SC-37 receiver -- SMS-1 --Anti Mode -- 2 sets of "Y" spliters off the LFE cabe -- 4 subs

As an alternative to the SMS-1 people could try the MiniDSP, it will do the following too..Its around $170 compared to the SMS-1 $499 price tag.

Quote:


" further EQ the bottom end down to 16 hz and set a nice house curve."


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post #1587 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

As an alternative to the SMS-1 people could try the MiniDSP, it will do the following too..Its around $170 compared to the SMS-1 $499 price tag.

Penn - I bought the SMS used and it works well with the Anti Mode. I don't have the best room for subwoofers. I have a used XTZ coming so I will see just how my room is.

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post #1588 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 10:40 AM
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I am considering getting a SMS-1 but was wondering if there a benefit to it if I get a receiver with Audessey. It seems some people here turn off whatever EQ is built into the subs and are just using Audessey since it is supposed to EQ the subs. What are the benefits of using both an external sub EQ and also Audessey? Is Audessey's auto EQ for the sub not that good?
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post #1589 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patgilm View Post

I am considering getting a SMS-1 but was wondering if there a benefit to it if I get a receiver with Audessey. It seems some people here turn off whatever EQ is built into the subs and are just using Audessey since it is supposed to EQ the subs. What are the benefits of using both an external sub EQ and also Audessey? Is Audessey's auto EQ for the sub not that good?

"Audessey's auto EQ for the sub" is dependent on the version/level of Audyssey that you have and how many subs you have.

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post #1590 of 1785 Old 11-02-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

"Audessey's auto EQ for the sub" is dependent on the version/level of Audyssey that you have and how many subs you have.

I am picking up a JL Audio F113 this week and I was considering getting a SMS-1 since I am used to it a little since I just sold my DD-12. I did some research and read the ARO in the F113 isn't as good an EQ as the SMS/DD EQ so that is why I was considering getting the SMS-1. However, if I end up getting the new Marantz AV7005 with Audessey, I am wondering if I am wasting money on a sub EQ. I only have one sub for now but will probably pick up another F113 next spring.
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