Elemental Designs A7-900 vs. Epik Conquest vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-22-2008, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to make a decision between the three. My wife is cool with any but it has to be one enclosure, she doesn't want multiple subs located at ideal locations. The room has to pull double duty. The dimensions are 12' wide by 29' long with standard (8' ceilings with a tray design that goes up another foot). My guess is that is about 3000 cubic feet. The room also opens twice along one of the long walls. The first is about 14' wide in another room that is 14' x 16'; and then 5' later it opens another 6' wide for the hallway. I currently use Rotel RSP 1068/RMB 1075 with the Paradigm Studio speaker line. I aslo have been using the JL Audio Fathom f113 for about 4 months; while I love everything abouthe the fathom, I just need more. I have researched this forum and ran across craigs list and that has narrowed my choiced down to those. I am not wanting to lose sound quality, i just want to gain some more low end and pressure.
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post #2 of 41 Old 06-22-2008, 08:12 PM
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Well a7-900 is a little more powerful and more musical than conquest according to the "craigslist", but its also more expensive and bigger. If you can afford it and have room for it, and your wife is cool with the size, then no reason not to go for the best. If you were worried about the rough textured finish of ED, note that they changed their finish to a finer texture one, which should look better, possibly similar to the epiks.
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post #3 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 03:09 AM
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Well, the good news is that you can sell the Fathom and get enough to pay for any of these with change to spare.
I have to agree with the above though, the A7-900 is about 3x the size of the Fathom and takes 4-5 people to carry it. But it does have the highest output of any of the non custom built subs and will certainly put a smile on your face.
I think the Conquest would also be a great choice, but again, if you aren't satisfied with the Fathom, it will probably take the A7-900 to quench your thirst for output.

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post #4 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 06:17 AM
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In agree with the previous posters... If you want sheer output, get the the A7-900, as long as you (or your wife) don't mind it's looks.

Life is good.
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post #5 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 06:41 AM
 
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Squiggy34 - You might want to take a look at this pic before you make a move to a different subwoofer.

This pic shows the SVS PB10-NSD (19Hx15Wx21D inches) next to an A7-900.

Your Fathom is 19.625H x 16.5W x 19.25D - pretty close to the SVS shown.

The A7-900 is pretty big. Plus, you love your current sub, the Fathom.

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post #6 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 07:01 AM
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I had no idea Bowflex made speakers, Craig.
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post #7 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 07:02 AM
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That picture always puts a smile on my face.
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post #8 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I do love the fathom's accuracy and SQ but not enough output. I am okay with the size (WOW that is huge). I have the space for it. But does the ed keep up SQ wise. Craig I know that you tested all three of these, what do you think? I am not a bass head I just like the clean headroom and the subtle nuances that more gives. Basically if the ed sub can keep up with the fathom and give me more output then ed A7-900 is a winner. ED does offer 30 day trial, and I think I will pull the trigger to try it.
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

Yes, I do love the fathom's accuracy and SQ but not enough output. I am okay with the size (WOW that is huge). I have the space for it. But does the ed keep up SQ wise. Craig I know that you tested all three of these, what do you think? I am not a bass head I just like the clean headroom and the subtle nuances that more gives. Basically if the ed sub can keep up with the fathom and give me more output then ed A7-900 is a winner. ED does offer 30 day trial, and I think I will pull the trigger to try it.

I'm not too sure about ED's policy, but I believe that you will have to pay for return shipping. However, if you have the space for it and don't mind the anti-WAF, I don't think it will be leaving your house once you get it.

Life is good.
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post #10 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 10:45 AM
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The A7-900's only issue is its size. I certain couldn't fit it in my place, and it cost 2x what my Tower did

If you have the space, get the A7-900 and be done with it. Craig rated it the highest for SQ in music and it also received the highest score for HT as well. My guess is he won't say anything different than his (and others) rankings show on his list.

I was heavily influenced by Craig's list on what to buy so thanks again to Craig!
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post #11 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an awesome wife, she doesn't mind the size too much; I just need to make it look neat and organized. My only problem is moving it. I am cool with paying the shipping if I don't like it, as I don't have any other way to listen to it. I love this forum and thanks for the input. My other option was to buy another fathom f113 and co-locate them, but then the money becomes an issue. If a $2200 sub (with 2 18" drivers) can hit lower and sound better than 2 co-located 6000 subs, than it is moot point with me. I know that from 30 hz up the fathom is going to be tough to beat SQ wise, but after reading the craiglists; I don't think that the ed sub will have any problems. I was stuck between the conquest and the a7-900 for a while, until all the info on this forum. SIZE IS NO ISSUE. I love my wife!!
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post #12 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

I have an awesome wife, she doesn't mind the size too much; I just need to make it look neat and organized. My only problem is moving it. I am cool with paying the shipping if I don't like it, as I don't have any other way to listen to it. I love this forum and thanks for the input. My other option was to buy another fathom f113 and co-locate them, but then the money becomes an issue. If a $2200 sub (with 2 18" drivers) can hit lower and sound better than 2 co-located 6000 subs, than it is moot point with me. I know that from 30 hz up the fathom is going to be tough to beat SQ wise, but after reading the craiglists; I don't think that the ed sub will have any problems. I was stuck between the conquest and the a7-900 for a while, until all the info on this forum. SIZE IS NO ISSUE. I love my wife!!

Squiggy 34,

I'm extremely happy adding a second Fathom 113 to my room. It has added symmetry and a smoothing of bass in the room and extended the bass impact to the point the room shakes more than enough! I thought I was going to break a window playing Cloverfield at reference levels.
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post #13 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 12:05 PM
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So you are not considering the A7-450?

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #14 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

I have an awesome wife, she doesn't mind the size too much; I just need to make it look neat and organized. My only problem is moving it. I am cool with paying the shipping if I don't like it, as I don't have any other way to listen to it. I love this forum and thanks for the input. My other option was to buy another fathom f113 and co-locate them, but then the money becomes an issue. If a $2200 sub (with 2 18" drivers) can hit lower and sound better than 2 co-located 6000 subs, than it is moot point with me. I know that from 30 hz up the fathom is going to be tough to beat SQ wise, but after reading the craiglists; I don't think that the ed sub will have any problems. I was stuck between the conquest and the a7-900 for a while, until all the info on this forum. SIZE IS NO ISSUE. I love my wife!!

Sounds like you have made your decision. Please let us know your impressions.

Life is good.
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post #15 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I guess I have. I would like to hear from someone who has heard both and describe the differences they heard. I am somewhat worried that the ed sub might be an overkill.
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post #16 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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No, to the a7-450, didn't see it on the craigslist, and I guess I felt it would be close to the fathom that I have but maybe less SQ. Hey, I am still learning. Would be interested in hearing all the opinions.
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post #17 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

Yes, I guess I have. I would like to hear from someone who has heard both and describe the differences they heard. I am somewhat worried that the ed sub might be an overkill.

While there has not been much discussion of headroom in this thread, it is really important.

You will control the volume no matter what you decide. There should not be any "overkill", if you have the Ed properly calibrated.

You will likely end up with enough headroom to last you a lifetime if you choose the Ed A7-900.

With regard to the A7-450, I got the impression that it did not hold up all that well in a direct comparison to the SVS PB-13 Ultra. I would steer clear of the A7-450. The Epik Conquest would be a better choice if you change your mind about the Ed A7-900.

Not many people have all the pieces in place to get an Ed A7-900. Since you and your wife are prepared for this behemoth, you might want to get it, knowing that you are one of only a few people who have the space and acceptance from your spouse for something that is almost size of a desk.

The dimensions 26 X 26 X 49 don't do it justice. The picture posted by Craig shows just how big it is.

I have a feeling that Craig Chase is the only person who you are likely to hear from who has already compared the Ed A7-900 to the J L Audio F113 (and ranked the Ed higher).

I would love to hear from someone who has heard dual F113's and the Ed A7-900 in the same location. Don't forget the price of admission to dual F113's. The new F212 is the one that is getting all the "air time". I would go with the Ed.
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post #18 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 01:34 PM
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Headroom is nice. Since going with 4 eD 18 inch drivers in my sono's I have re-calibrated my subs at 72 db's compared to 80 db's I used to run subs. It plays just as loud but not overbearing at all. It seems so much more natural but will scare the crap out of you when called upon. I would buy the eD just so you know for sure.
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post #19 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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This has been a tough decision for us. We heard two fathoms f113 in a sealed similar room and we liked the sound. We also love Jl audios finisha and size factor. At home and the demo room they were always lacking a little bit on the low side of the range. As someone already said the price for two fathoms is well hard to fathom.

I didn't consider the ed a7-450 because it wasn't on the craigslists and I figured that in that category there must have been better or it would have been on the lists.

I guess we want the best SQ and headroom and we are willing to focus for one location size. I am just a little nervous that the ed a7-900 may not be as good as the fathom where the fathom shines.
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post #20 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

This has been a tough decision for us. We heard two fathoms f113 in a sealed similar room and we liked the sound. We also love Jl audios finisha and size factor. At home and the demo room they were always lacking a little bit on the low side of the range. As someone already said the price for two fathoms is well hard to fathom.

I didn't consider the ed a7-450 because it wasn't on the craigslists and I figured that in that category there must have been better or it would have been on the lists.

I guess we want the best SQ and headroom and we are willing to focus for one location size. I am just a little nervous that the ed a7-900 may not be as good as the fathom where the fathom shines.

No one can evaluate the sound of these subs for you. You have enough money to get the Ed A7-900 and if it doesn't "shine", send it back and get another F113.

We can't tell you which you will like better. Craig Chase made it clear that the Ed A7-900 was the best sounding and most powerful sub that he has tested. What more can you expect?

I doubt that anyone has done a head to head using 2 F113's vs. one A7-900. If you don't try the Ed A7-900 you will always wonder what you might be missing. Don't sweat the return shipping. There is no way to intellectualize your way through a decision like this.
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post #21 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

No one can evaluate the sound of these subs for you. You have enough money to get the Ed A7-900 and if it doesn't "shine", send it back and get another F113.

We can't tell you which you will like better. Craig Chase made it clear that the Ed A7-900 was the best sounding and most powerful sub that he has tested. What more can you expect?

I doubt that anyone has done a head to head using 2 F113's vs. one A7-900. If you don't try the Ed A7-900 you will always wonder what you might be missing. Don't sweat the return shipping. There is no way to intellectualize your way through a decision like this.

LOL, I had to chuckle when you said "if it [A7-900] doesn't shine, send it back...". Not that it couldn't be done, but it does sound like a big pain to me. I sure as heck wouldn't want to move that 400+ lb beast more than once!

However, I agree with your overall post. The A7-900 is a great bargain in terms of price/performance. Its only "review" with any kind of ranking (Craig's) is overwhelmingly positive, so it seems like a safe bet. Again though, it's up to your own ears. You know you like the Fathoms, but the price difference between the A7-900 vs. two Fathoms (assuming you sell your current one) is probably at least $3-4k. On the other hand, trying out the A7-900 might cost you at most $200-400, depending on the cost of return shipping if you end up not liking it. It's up to you whether you want to try it or not. Either way you should have great bass.
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post #22 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 05:02 PM
 
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Squiggy - The A7-450 is going to sound identical to the A7-900, except it will lose some headroom.

There have been several threads in the DIY section here from guys who have used the 18 inch eD driver and built their own subs - the A7-900 is really a "DIY" sub that they happen to build for you.

It will take more effort to dial it into your system, and it is not an automatic that you will prefer the A7-900 to the Fathom(s) - but it sure would be fun to read about your results if you give it a go.
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post #23 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 05:09 PM
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Hello,

Quote: I am just a little nervous that the ed a7-900 may not be as good as the fathom where the fathom shines.


I have been away from the sub forum for quite some time. I could not help myself to help you make the right sub choice.
I have owned one f113, one Conquest and one A7-900. If you want unlimited slam and great extension down low for movies great articulate bass for music and SIZE does not matter hands down go with ED and do not look back. If size does matter then I would go with TWO f 113 Just my two cents.

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post #24 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback! My wife is in agreement with lalakersfan34, not something we want to move more than we have to. I, on the other hand agree with Spyboy, I will always wonder if I didn't. Craigsub, take pride that I have most of my sub decisions based on your reviews and your clic, and I haven't been disappointed, but the more you subject yourself, the more perfection we want. So I value your opinions, I know that the ed sub is basically a DIY, but honesly I think most plate amp/sub combos are (for the most part anyway). JL Audio stepped it up a few and came through, but everything is a compromise.
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post #25 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks rmlowz, care to elaborate. I have already pulled the trigger, so I am pumped.
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post #26 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I am assuming also with the ed a7-900 a sub eq may be necessary for full potential. SMS-1 good, are there better?
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post #27 of 41 Old 06-23-2008, 08:16 PM
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just more food for thought. i know you ordered, but it's likely not too late to edit your purchase.

according to chris at eD, TWO A7-450's would FAR exceed the capabilities of a single A7-900. and each be a little easier to move and lift that the 900. pricewise, they'd be $2600 together vs. $2200 for the single A7-900.

they have a couple other new subs coming out as well, p7-650, A7-350. no specs yet on their website.

enjoy your sub(s).

i have a pair of their A7S-450's and have been very pleased (which hasn't been reviewed by craigsub unfortunately so there's no point of reference) however, i chose that based on eD's recommendation for something that would be superior to the A5-350 yet sizewise, be comparable for my purposes. the A7-450 was too tall and pricey in pairs for my budget.
I use their eq2 to help flatten out the output. it's a very simple analog device that is easy to use. not sure about the sms1 but that is held as the gold standard.

SVS was supposed to have their own automatic parametric eq based on audessey tech. but still in beta afaik.
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post #28 of 41 Old 06-24-2008, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Freeflap, but that option is not within the my wife's guidelines, it has to be one unit, not two or three. The only way she is okay with two is if they are co-located. Thanks for the input.
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post #29 of 41 Old 06-24-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmlowz View Post

Hello,

Quote: I am just a little nervous that the ed a7-900 may not be as good as the fathom where the fathom shines.


I have been away from the sub forum for quite some time. I could not help myself to help you make the right sub choice.
I have owned one f113, one Conquest and one A7-900. If you want unlimited slam and great extension down low for movies great articulate bass for music and SIZE does not matter hands down go with ED and do not look back. If size does matter then I would go with TWO f 113 Just my two cents.

rmlowz

Can you elaborate any further on the conquest vs. the A7-900? they're both on my shortlist, but I was leaning towards the conquest due to size and weight, and the preliminary reviews of the conquest claims it'll hit 12.5Hz at 103dB without ever going above 10% THD. pretty tempting...

I think we're the demons.
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post #30 of 41 Old 06-24-2008, 07:45 PM
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ok understood.
you could colocate, or place side by side. it would look like "one" sub perhaps.

just a thought.



Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggy34 View Post

Thanks Freeflap, but that option is not within the my wife's guidelines, it has to be one unit, not two or three. The only way she is okay with two is if they are co-located. Thanks for the input.

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