Official REL Subwoofer thread... - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 793 Old 04-05-2014, 12:50 PM
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Update!...
I couldn't resist the deal. Pulled the trigger on a R-528 brand new for $1,800.00 and take delivery Wednesday.
This sub will go behind my FL speaker and the T-9, I will play with various locations. I'm thinking of moving the sofa from the back wall about 15" and locate the T-9 center behind. Of course using the high level and LFE connections for both subwoofers. Opinions are welcome...[IMG ALT="Scale: 1 square - 1'
The numbers in balloons are db levels from the subwoofer in those locations measured by an Audyssey microphone located in the center of the sofa indicated by the "x"
This is a studio condo. Everything is completely open with the exception of the bathroom of course. Note the corner fireplace and a wet bar located to the right."]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/243010/width/500/height/700[/IMG]

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
Oppo BDP-103 - Blue Ray
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post #722 of 793 Old 04-06-2014, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

Update!...
I couldn't resist the deal. Pulled the trigger on a R-528 brand new for $1,800.00 and take delivery Wednesday.
This sub will go behind my FL speaker and the T-9, I will play with various locations. I'm thinking of moving the sofa from the back wall about 15" and locate the T-9 center behind. Of course using the high level and LFE connections for both subwoofers. Opinions are welcome...[IMG ALT="Scale: 1 square - 1'
The numbers in balloons are db levels from the subwoofer in those locations measured by an Audyssey microphone located in the center of the sofa indicated by the "x"
This is a studio condo. Everything is completely open with the exception of the bathroom of course. Note the corner fireplace and a wet bar located to the right."]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/243010/width/500/height/700[/IMG]

For sound, it's always a good idea to pull away from the wall. The optimal seating distance for the most flat low frequency response is 38% into the room from either the back or the front. To close to the back wall gives a high bass peak. The middle gives the most nulls.
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post #723 of 793 Old 04-11-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

Update!...
I couldn't resist the deal. Pulled the trigger on a R-528 brand new for $1,800.00 and take delivery Wednesday.
This sub will go behind my FL speaker and the T-9, I will play with various locations. I'm thinking of moving the sofa from the back wall about 15" and locate the T-9 center behind. Of course using the high level and LFE connections for both subwoofers. Opinions are welcome...[IMG ALT="Scale: 1 square - 1'
The numbers in balloons are db levels from the subwoofer in those locations measured by an Audyssey microphone located in the center of the sofa indicated by the "x"
This is a studio condo. Everything is completely open with the exception of the bathroom of course. Note the corner fireplace and a wet bar located to the right."]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/243010/width/500/height/700[/IMG]

I jus ordered a white r-528SE, should be here next week. Let me know how yours works out and what you notice different from the T9. I am considering ordering the JL e112 for comparison. I hear the e110 yesterday and it was very impressive but still sounds more like a subwoofer if you know what I mean. I have a good deal on a used JL e112 so I figured I may as well check it out and sell if I dont like. The wife will prefer the REL based on looks for sure.
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post #724 of 793 Old 04-11-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bucky22 View Post

I jus ordered a white r-528SE, should be here next week. Let me know how yours works out and what you notice different from the T9. I am considering ordering the JL e112 for comparison. I hear the e110 yesterday and it was very impressive but still sounds more like a subwoofer if you know what I mean. I have a good deal on a used JL e112 so I figured I may as well check it out and sell if I dont like. The wife will prefer the REL based on looks for sure.

I only have REL's currently, but what is this 'sounds like a subwoofer' about?
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post #725 of 793 Old 04-11-2014, 04:56 PM
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I only have REL's currently, but what is this 'sounds like a subwoofer' about?
If you are familiar with the car audio subwoofer boom that sounds over bearing and slightly in accurate even when tuned well is what I am referring too. It is difficult to describe, but it seems boomy, and localized and i can hear the sub most of the time. Most likely a tuning issue I would guess. The REL subs sound clean quiet without the punchy boom and seem surprise me when there is a low note that needs some oomph.
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post #726 of 793 Old 04-12-2014, 11:12 AM
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I pulled my sofa out from the wall just far enough to fit the T-9 centered behind but it sure takes a lot of my floorspace away. It sounded terrific but at the expense of floorspace. What I did then was remove the T-9 and put the sofa back against the wall with the T-9 on one side of the sofa. I liked it less. Next and currently, I have the sofa sitting a mere 10" from the wal, took the T-9 offlinel and it sounds pretty good but I still dont have that emersed feel that I'm looking for. I must add that the R-528 is the only sub online. I'm in process of breaking in the R-528 and tuning it for the current room configuration.
Next task is to figure out how to integrate the T-9. What I think is the ultimate answer, incorporatie a sub on either side of the sofa, be they a pair of T-9's or other model/brand. I need input and ideas. Anyone care to suggest?

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
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post #727 of 793 Old 04-13-2014, 07:33 PM
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I've put the R-528 in the corner behind the LF speaker where the T-9 was and taken the T-9 completely out of the system. Comparing the two, the R-528 goes lower and hits much harder than the T-9. The T-9 is a very good sub but comparing the two, hands down the R-528 is a HUGE improvement. So far I only have abour 6 hours on it and see this kind of improvement, I can only imagine what it will be like once its run in for 30 or so hours. When I ran the T-9 in, I enjoyed it out of the box but once it was run in, I was AMAZED and some of the information it displayed. I'm gitty just thinking about how suprised I will be when the R-528 is fully run in.
For the set-up, I'm following the owners manual. Setting up in 2-channel mode first, set my speakers to large, turned the crossover all the way down to 30 Hz, and the volume to min. Then turned the volume up slowly till I could hear the REL. Once there I turned it down one "notch" and could barely hear it but knew it was there. Once that part was complete, turned the crossover up to where I thought it was right. Once that was all complete, I removed the high-level connector and connected the LFE and did an Audissey set up. I thought the set up was mostly finished however, when I watched a movie or played music with the subwoofer engaged (LFE information), I immediately knew the LFE level was too high. I turned the LFE level down just a little so it blened nicely and "presto", everything sounds pretty nice! It's still a work in progress and I have to be extra nice to my G/F as she serves as my remote control as I sit in my listening position barking orders to her. Eventually I will have it dialed in to near perfection as it finishes its run in period.
I'm still contemplating what I'm going to do about a pair of subwoofers on each side of the sofa. Again the purpose is to be in the middle of the explosion rather than it being mostly in the front of the room but then maybe as the R-528 becomes more run in, I shouldnt need the rear sub(s)? I'm thinking with two rear subs and posibly a center channel sub one day, I'd have the ultimate living room / home theater system.

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
Oppo BDP-103 - Blue Ray
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post #728 of 793 Old 04-14-2014, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

I've put the R-528 in the corner behind the LF speaker where the T-9 was and taken the T-9 completely out of the system. Comparing the two, the R-528 goes lower and hits much harder than the T-9. The T-9 is a very good sub but comparing the two, hands down the R-528 is a HUGE improvement. So far I only have abour 6 hours on it and see this kind of improvement, I can only imagine what it will be like once its run in for 30 or so hours. When I ran the T-9 in, I enjoyed it out of the box but once it was run in, I was AMAZED and some of the information it displayed. I'm gitty just thinking about how suprised I will be when the R-528 is fully run in.
For the set-up, I'm following the owners manual. Setting up in 2-channel mode first, set my speakers to large, turned the crossover all the way down to 30 Hz, and the volume to min. Then turned the volume up slowly till I could hear the REL. Once there I turned it down one "notch" and could barely hear it but knew it was there. Once that part was complete, turned the crossover up to where I thought it was right. Once that was all complete, I removed the high-level connector and connected the LFE and did an Audissey set up. I thought the set up was mostly finished however, when I watched a movie or played music with the subwoofer engaged (LFE information), I immediately knew the LFE level was too high. I turned the LFE level down just a little so it blened nicely and "presto", everything sounds pretty nice! It's still a work in progress and I have to be extra nice to my G/F as she serves as my remote control as I sit in my listening position barking orders to her. Eventually I will have it dialed in to near perfection as it finishes its run in period.
I'm still contemplating what I'm going to do about a pair of subwoofers on each side of the sofa. Again the purpose is to be in the middle of the explosion rather than it being mostly in the front of the room but then maybe as the R-528 becomes more run in, I shouldnt need the rear sub(s)? I'm thinking with two rear subs and posibly a center channel sub one day, I'd have the ultimate living room / home theater system.

If well setup, two subs aren't really needed, unless you are in need of that little bit of extra SPL.

Low frequencies aren't directional so you shouldn't be able to locate the sub.

Also I can recommend getting something like a measuring mic and a simple soundcard. It doesn't cost much and it will make setting up a lot easier. Especial stuff like phase is near impossible to hear, but has quite the impact on the sound.
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post #729 of 793 Old 04-14-2014, 05:17 AM
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I've put the R-528 in the corner behind the LF speaker where the T-9 was and taken the T-9 completely out of the system. Comparing the two, the R-528 goes lower and hits much harder than the T-9. The T-9 is a very good sub but comparing the two, hands down the R-528 is a HUGE improvement. So far I only have abour 6 hours on it and see this kind of improvement, I can only imagine what it will be like once its run in for 30 or so hours. When I ran the T-9 in, I enjoyed it out of the box but once it was run in, I was AMAZED and some of the information it displayed. I'm gitty just thinking about how suprised I will be when the R-528 is fully run in.
For the set-up, I'm following the owners manual. Setting up in 2-channel mode first, set my speakers to large, turned the crossover all the way down to 30 Hz, and the volume to min. Then turned the volume up slowly till I could hear the REL. Once there I turned it down one "notch" and could barely hear it but knew it was there. Once that part was complete, turned the crossover up to where I thought it was right. Once that was all complete, I removed the high-level connector and connected the LFE and did an Audissey set up. I thought the set up was mostly finished however, when I watched a movie or played music with the subwoofer engaged (LFE information), I immediately knew the LFE level was too high. I turned the LFE level down just a little so it blened nicely and "presto", everything sounds pretty nice! It's still a work in progress and I have to be extra nice to my G/F as she serves as my remote control as I sit in my listening position barking orders to her. Eventually I will have it dialed in to near perfection as it finishes its run in period.
I'm still contemplating what I'm going to do about a pair of subwoofers on each side of the sofa. Again the purpose is to be in the middle of the explosion rather than it being mostly in the front of the room but then maybe as the R-528 becomes more run in, I shouldnt need the rear sub(s)? I'm thinking with two rear subs and posibly a center channel sub one day, I'd have the ultimate living room / home theater system.

You setup the sub incorrectly. Ignore the Rel manual.Bypass the subs internal crossover. Set your mains to small 80hz.

You only use the subs own crossover in a Hi-Fi system, where you send full-range to the sub. For a home cinema with a av amp, use low level LFE out, max out the crossover on the sub itself.

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Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #730 of 793 Old 04-14-2014, 04:35 PM
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You setup the sub incorrectly. Ignore the Rel manual.Bypass the subs internal crossover. Set your mains to small 80hz.

You only use the subs own crossover in a Hi-Fi system, where you send full-range to the sub. For a home cinema with a av amp, use low level LFE out, max out the crossover on the sub itself.

I find your statement a bit different since everyone suggested setting the REL up exactly as I described. Sources include the dealer I purchased it from and Sumiko (REL USA). Their methodology makes all the sense in the world to me since the REL is dual purpose, music and HT. Isn't the whole concept of the REL to augment the main speakers? If I set the my mains to 80 Hz, there's no guarantee anything below are being sent to LFE. But then what do I know? Maybe it's worth trying.... confused.gif

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Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
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post #731 of 793 Old 04-14-2014, 04:40 PM
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lol.

a) Connect your subwoofer form RCA output in your AV amp
b) Disable the subwoofers own crossover
c) Set crossover on your 5.0 speakers to the ideal setting for the speaker and room type. For the Paradigm Signature S2 I'd set them to no lower than small 60hz.
d) set subwoofer crossover to 60hz
e) djust subwoofe volume
f) Do not use high level from your amp to the sub
g) Do not set your Paradigm Signature S2 to large.

Job done.

" there's no guarantee anything below are being sent to LFE. "

Yes there is, when you set speakers to small, anything below that is sent to LFE. I have my fronts set to small 70hz. Subwoofer 70hz. So <70hz from the 5.0 speakers is sent to the subwoofer.

By using your AV amps crossover and the subs crossover you have cascasing crossovers and it's totally pointless. Rel are 20 years behind the times lol. You only need to use high level inputs if your amp (Hifi amp) lacks pre-outs.

I have my subwoofer in the Hifi from pre-outs.
For the HT it's from the LFE out.

Also Rel are way over priced you could have bought a better sub for less. They're insanely expensive (I've had two)

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post #732 of 793 Old 04-14-2014, 04:50 PM
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Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center


I'd set those two standmount to small 60 or 80hz.
With your center at small 80hz

Setting everthing to small 80hz is a good step. Definietly not large.

I have mains and center that go lower than yours and I don't set them to large (full range)

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post #733 of 793 Old 04-19-2014, 07:37 PM
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I just received a new R 528 SE white version, and just finished dialing it in. It may need some time to break in but I am still surprised at how much i need to turn the volume up on the LFE to fill in the room. The T1, was not even turned up half way. I have the volume set about 3 O'clock and the AVR sub volume set at +10. The base sure is deeper and i am enjoying it so far, wish it could fit it in the corner but for now it lives up against an open wall.
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post #734 of 793 Old 04-19-2014, 08:15 PM
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My system is for dual purpose, HT and music. Seting the REL up as directed by Sumiko, it blends beautifully with my fronts. It's very much the same as having three-way speakers. Connecting the LFE, information on a Blu-ray is programed for 5.1 configuration. The ".1" being the LFE is information ONLY sent to this channel, typically 120 Hz and below. My center channel is set for 70 Hz and above, and two rears only see 60 Hz and above. All information between 60 Hz - 120 Hz is shared between the rears and LFE as well as the center from 70 Hz - 120 Hz. The fronts set to Large, the REL see's up to its cross-over setting and the fronts are limited to their frequency limitation, (55 Hz as per specification).
Makes total sense to me and works beautifully! Sumiko after all, should know what they are talking about, even if they are using 30 year old technology.....

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
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post #735 of 793 Old 04-19-2014, 10:39 PM
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A Rel sub at the very least should be connected with the speakon connection (high level).The mains should run full range.Any other way leaves you lacking full potential.The LFE connection is just an added bonus for those of you that want to use the REL for home theater as well.

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post #736 of 793 Old 04-19-2014, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

My system is for dual purpose, HT and music. Seting the REL up as directed by Sumiko, it blends beautifully with my fronts. It's very much the same as having three-way speakers. Connecting the LFE, information on a Blu-ray is programed for 5.1 configuration. The ".1" being the LFE is information ONLY sent to this channel, typically 120 Hz and below. My center channel is set for 70 Hz and above, and two rears only see 60 Hz and above. All information between 60 Hz - 120 Hz is shared between the rears and LFE as well as the center from 70 Hz - 120 Hz. The fronts set to Large, the REL see's up to its cross-over setting and the fronts are limited to their frequency limitation, (55 Hz as per specification).
Makes total sense to me and works beautifully! Sumiko after all, should know what they are talking about, even if they are using 30 year old technology.....
Using Sumiko's directions is the way to go.Using the manual that comes with your Rel is also a good tool to achieve proper setup.Any other method of setup may work fine for your average "fart box" but not with a Rel.

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post #737 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Shmalan View Post

A Rel sub at the very least should be connected with the speakon connection (high level).The mains should run full range.Any other way leaves you lacking full potential.The LFE connection is just an added bonus for those of you that want to use the REL for home theater as well.

No it shouldn't.
No it shouldn't.


Utterly wrong. With a AV amp there is NO NEED at all for high + low level connection, in fact what you're suggesting is totally and utterly incorrect. You don't set your mains to large. You don't send L/R + LFE bass.

Use LFE, set your mains to small.

You only use high level connection if your stereo analogue pre-amp lacks pre-outs.

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post #738 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

My system is for dual purpose, HT and music. Seting the REL up as directed by Sumiko, it blends beautifully with my fronts. It's very much the same as having three-way speakers. Connecting the LFE, information on a Blu-ray is programed for 5.1 configuration. The ".1" being the LFE is information ONLY sent to this channel, typically 120 Hz and below. My center channel is set for 70 Hz and above, and two rears only see 60 Hz and above. All information between 60 Hz - 120 Hz is shared between the rears and LFE as well as the center from 70 Hz - 120 Hz. The fronts set to Large, the REL see's up to its cross-over setting and the fronts are limited to their frequency limitation, (55 Hz as per specification).
Makes total sense to me and works beautifully! Sumiko after all, should know what they are talking about, even if they are using 30 year old technology.....

You're doing it wrong. Sorry. Your mains are no way capable of full-range reprouduction. NO WAY.

Set them to small, remove the high level lead, and only use the RCA cable from your AV amp to your Rel. I think Rel are stuck in the times, when AV amps had no bass management, and they can't be bothered to update their manual.

Your standmounts should be set to small. Therefore your L/R speakers won't receive ultra low bass, so you need to use the LFE connection to do so.

I use a subwoofer in the HT and the Hi-Fi. And no they're not fart boxes, LOL

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post #739 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 06:09 AM
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If well setup, two subs aren't really needed, unless you are in need of that little bit of extra SPL.
 

This is highly incorrect in almost all situations.  The benefit of dual subs is much more to smooth in room response than to increase SPL.  Increased SPL can be had just from getting a bigger sub...but only duals can improve response.  And this is most likely very very beneficial.  Filling in 15 dB nulls or smoothing 10 dB peaks will have a drastic impact on sound.


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post #740 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 06:37 AM
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This is highly incorrect in almost all situations.  The benefit of dual subs is much more to smooth in room response than to increase SPL.  Increased SPL can be had just from getting a bigger sub...but only duals can improve response.  And this is most likely very very beneficial.  Filling in 15 dB nulls or smoothing 10 dB peaks will have a drastic impact on sound.

My point was more that you should get room treatments first instead of adding a second sub. It's cheaper and has several more benefits then a second sub will get you.

In general I am always amazed how much people can invest in equipment without treating the room.
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post #741 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 08:59 AM
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No it shouldn't.
No it shouldn't.


Utterly wrong. With a AV amp there is NO NEED at all for high + low level connection, in fact what you're suggesting is totally and utterly incorrect. You don't set your mains to large. You don't send L/R + LFE bass.

Use LFE, set your mains to small.

You only use high level connection if your stereo analogue pre-amp lacks pre-outs.

A few quotes from Rel.
"The purpose of connecting to the speaker output terminals is one of the unique secrets of REL’s success. By connecting to the high-level input on the REL from the amplifier, you build forward the sonic signature of your main system, including the tonal balance and timing cues of the entire electronics chain. In this way, the REL is fed the exact signal that is fed to the main speakers".
" High-level connection, using the enclosed cable with the Neutrik Speakon connector, is always the first choice compared with low-level connection. This connection can be made without affecting the performance of the amplifier because the REL’s amplifier input impedance is 150,000 ohms, in effect not producing any additional demand whatsoever on the rest of your system".
"For Dolby® Digital AC-3 or other 5.1 theater systems, once the standard set-up for two-channel outlined above is complete, the LFE output from the processor or receiver should be connected to the .1/LFE INPUT and appropriate volume adjustments made using the .1/LFE level control. For this configuration, you must set the processor to the “large” or “full-range” setting for the left and right speakers in order for the REL to receive the bass signal via the high-level cable. In this configuration, the REL provides support for both the left and right speakers for two-channel listening and support for the LFE when movies are playing. Most processors will allow you to defeat the subwoofer output when listening in the two-channel mode. The effect of this set-up is one of greatly increased dynamics in the mid-bass range, no bass bloat and a greater degree of space and timing from the special audio effects."

So you are telling me that the makers of Rel have got it all wrong and you know better?I don't buy that at all.I have had many subs in my time,good ones and bad ones.My experience with Rel is to set it up the way Rel recommends,it sounds and integrates better.Setting it up any other way restricts it's full potential.
I have two friends that each have Rel subs, an R-528 and an R-505.The one with the R-505 sets his up the way mine is set up and the way Rel recommends,it sounds right.The other refuses to use the speakon cable because his wife doesn't like the extra cable clutter.His sub does not sound right,boomy,flabby,timing is wrong.He can't seem to get it to blend properly for two channel listening.I would have expected the R-528 to integrate better than the R-505 as it is a much better sub.My R-328 is better than the R-505.

I guess one can connect their Rel sub any way they feel gives them the best result.I myself will always use the manufacturers recommended method.To my ears this is the best way.Rel make subs and only subs,they aught to know and want you to know the proper way of hookup and setup to get the most out of their subs.

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post #742 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 09:23 AM
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Rel are wrong. Plain and simple. You don't set mains to full range. So you're saying if you have Kef Eggs, you set them to large, then run off high level off speaker switch B to your sub? haha.

The BM in your processor does the EXACT same thing, why do you think it's called BM?

I had a Rel. Never needed to use low + high level.


"The purpose of connecting to the speaker output terminals is one of the unique secrets of REL’s success. By connecting to the high-level input on the REL from the amplifier, you build forward the sonic signature of your main system, including the tonal balance and timing cues of the entire electronics chain. In this way, the REL is fed the exact signal that is fed to the main speakers".

LOL

fyi the systems I have

7.1, SBS SB Ultra 13, from lexicon MC-8, LFE out (and only LFE)
2 channel Hifi, with SVS SB12+. Stereo analogue pre-amp RCA pre-out into sub (high pass) then from sub into power amps.

Ignore Rel's setup "advice"

Yes in a 2 channel Hifi you can use high level, that's what it's for (or pre-out it doesn't matter) If you can tell the difference between high level, and low level stereo pre-outs LOL

In a AV system, use the LFE out. Set your 5.0/7.0 speakers to suitable crossover ie if you have standmounts set to small 80hz. Subwoofer on.

Things have moved on since Rel made that manual. I have a copy of my original Rel Storm manual and it's exactly the same LOL. I guess they want to hold onto this setup advice as some kind of relic. You have BM in your AV amp/av processor, use it. Bypass the one in the sub.

"Rel make subs and only subs"

Then they should update their manual. Overpriced, under performing you mean.

Of course the reason why they want people to use high level is because want you to think their ABC crossover is special. It goes lower than others, but that's hardly anything special. The crossover in my Lexicon goes down to 30hz.

For my system I set subwoofer to 70hz, speakers to 70hz. I wouldn't set mains to full then send LFE+L/R. You do know when you set crossover points, the bass from L/R gets sent to LFE? So you're doing the same thing...but driving your mains as full-range. So using up power your speakers can't reproduce. Plus have to mess around with low level and high level gains, if you can do such a thing (need high and low level volume) plus need to use ABC filter, but then not use it for LFE as have cascading crossovers.

Rel are a complete mess. Sorry. LOL

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Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #743 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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LOL! chill out guys! cool.gif

Also, IIRC the 'special' part about the ABC crossover/filter was not how low it can be set (24Hz) but how fast it was (according to REL). Back in the days this made the REL's supposedly faster then the competition, but AVR's these days have all kinds of options to sync your main speakers and sub, which makes it a non-issue nowadays, though I doubt most HT guys actually use those kind of functions. Having the sub and mains run perfectly in sync is important for the augmentation of transients, which usually are a piece of low frequency information a lot of people forget.


I however went all the wat back to stereo listening with an old fashioned stereo amplifier. HI-level baby! It's not like I can actually listen loud enough to make my main speakers bottom out anyway. My neighbors would hate me if I did that.
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Fatbottom is correct! Put all your speakers at 80 hz, turn the crossover dial on the sub all the way up. Music/movies will be great. PS. If you wanted a
Nice looking sub for wifey and something that would sound great for movies and music. The Martin Logan depth i would spank that rel!
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post #745 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 07:04 PM
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My bad,I just realized you guys didn't live in the US.. I don't know what they have for sub choices over in Europe.
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post #746 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 07:21 PM
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The simple fact that the sub gets the same signal as the mains is reason enough to use the high level connection. I look at this this way, the engineers know their products more than our friends here in the forums. All respect considered. Also, I set my LFE to 120 Hz. I see no mention or debate of this setting. Time after time I have read that when a movie sound track is recorded, they intentionally send from 120 Hz and down to the LFE channel. By using any other setting would not be natural to the intended dynamic.
And as far as adding more subwoofers, if anyone takes a moment to review my diagram, the RLE-528 is in the far left corner of the room. Yes it pressurizes the whole room however you can tell the majority of the energy is in front of you. And the member who mentioned using room treatment, I have not installed any yet so I cannot comment there although, I'm sure I will see a drastic improvement by using treatment even if it's just behind my seating position. Going back to adding additional subs, I have located my REL T-9 on the right side of the sofa and rerally like the effect. It feels like the energy is filling in on that side nicely where it's slightly, and I mean "slightly" deficient on the opposite side. For this, another T-9 will be added when funds permit. In addition, I might add the high level connection to these from the rear speakers. Why not?
To top it off, I might add another REL to my center channel. I understand that could add a whole new dimention to dialog making it fuller and much clearer.
My system is coming to gether nicely. Oh, and I have a CD on order, the soundtrack from "Sneakers", recommended by REL for dialoing in their subwoofers. I was at my local dealer yesterday and he played the suggested track #4 through a pair of $15,000 Bowers & Wilkins complimented by a REL T-7. The room was very large with no treatments and the REL did a real nice job providing awesome sub bass. Track #4 from the Sneakers soundtrack is an awesome piece with lots of very low frequency information with very little mid-frquencies and no highs. Should be a breeze getting the REL dialed in to almost perfect settings. I must say what the T-7 did at the dealer was VERY impressive! I can't wait to see what the R-528 does once it's fully broken-in. So far it is an awesome subwoofer!


[IMG ALT="Scale: 1 square - 1'
The numbers in balloons are db levels from the subwoofer in those locations measured by an Audyssey microphone located in the center of the sofa indicated by the "x"
This is a studio condo. Everything is completely open with the exception of the bathroom of course. Note the corner fireplace and a wet bar located to the right."]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/243010/width/1000/height/1000[/IMG]

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
Oppo BDP-103 - Blue Ray
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post #747 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 08:30 PM
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Adding a sub to your center channel? eek.gif Its amazing how so many people are misinformed. Its bass,not base..
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post #748 of 793 Old 04-20-2014, 09:15 PM
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Typo fixed! biggrin.gif

Paradigm Signature S2 - front
Paradigm Studio 20 - rear
Paradigm CC-490 - center
REL R-528 - sub
REL T-9 - sub
Integra 50.3 - AVR
Oppo BDP-103 - Blue Ray
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post #749 of 793 Old 04-21-2014, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Oldschool View Post

The simple fact that the sub gets the same signal as the mains is reason enough to use the high level connection. I look at this this way, the engineers know their products more than our friends here in the forums. All respect considered. Also, I set my LFE to 120 Hz. I see no mention or debate of this setting. Time after time I have read that when a movie sound track is recorded, they intentionally send from 120 Hz and down to the LFE channel. By using any other setting would not be natural to the intended dynamic.
And as far as adding more subwoofers, if anyone takes a moment to review my diagram, the RLE-528 is in the far left corner of the room. Yes it pressurizes the whole room however you can tell the majority of the energy is in front of you. And the member who mentioned using room treatment, I have not installed any yet so I cannot comment there although, I'm sure I will see a drastic improvement by using treatment even if it's just behind my seating position. Going back to adding additional subs, I have located my REL T-9 on the right side of the sofa and rerally like the effect. It feels like the energy is filling in on that side nicely where it's slightly, and I mean "slightly" deficient on the opposite side. For this, another T-9 will be added when funds permit. In addition, I might add the high level connection to these from the rear speakers. Why not?
To top it off, I might add another REL to my center channel. I understand that could add a whole new dimention to dialog making it fuller and much clearer.
My system is coming to gether nicely. Oh, and I have a CD on order, the soundtrack from "Sneakers", recommended by REL for dialoing in their subwoofers. I was at my local dealer yesterday and he played the suggested track #4 through a pair of $15,000 Bowers & Wilkins complimented by a REL T-7. The room was very large with no treatments and the REL did a real nice job providing awesome sub bass. Track #4 from the Sneakers soundtrack is an awesome piece with lots of very low frequency information with very little mid-frquencies and no highs. Should be a breeze getting the REL dialed in to almost perfect settings. I must say what the T-7 did at the dealer was VERY impressive! I can't wait to see what the R-528 does once it's fully broken-in. So far it is an awesome subwoofer!


[IMG ALT="Scale: 1 square - 1'
The numbers in balloons are db levels from the subwoofer in those locations measured by an Audyssey microphone located in the center of the sofa indicated by the "x"
This is a studio condo. Everything is completely open with the exception of the bathroom of course. Note the corner fireplace and a wet bar located to the right."]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/243010/width/1000/height/1000[/IMG]

Sorry but you're doing it wrong. You don't send LFE + high level, then use the subs own crossover. There is no point at all.

Ignore Rel setup. Your standmounts aren't full range, so why use up amplifier power, sending them frequencies they can't reproduce? THD is higher, amp power is wasted. Set them to no lower than small 60hz. All <60hz frequencies from the L/R will be sent to the LFE output.

Now if you had a Hi-Fi, then you don't have any bass management, so speakers will receive full-range, and you'd send full-range to the sub. Not much you can do about that. But in a AV system? Why are Rel "special" when it comes to their setup? It's just a blinking crossover, just like every other subwoofer crossover LOL. There are no magic fairies in your subwoofer.

Whether it's high or low level it's the same thing. The av processor routes channels to the sub, depending on the crossover settings. Do you really think this will degrade sound quality in some way? LOL The only difference being the high level input is attenurated. The line level isn't.

For my Hi-Fi, I'm not running high and low level. That's pointless. However from my stereo analogue pre-amp pre-outs I go into the subwoofer RCA input. Inside that is a 80hz high pass filter. From the filtered outputs, it goes back into my first poweramp, then onto the second power amp. You then adjust the subwoofers own crossover to match. So the power amplifiers only receive >80hz so not wasting power amplyfing frequencies the speakers cannot reproduce. This is different method of bass management, in a way.

Previously I sent full-range to the speakers.

For you, disconnect high level input, set to small 80hz all round, bypass or max out the subs own crossover, calibrate, job done.

In your setup have you level matched high level and low level inputs with test tones?

With the high level input disconnected, output test tone from your av amp, calibrate to 73db. Adjust the low level control.
Disconnect low level input, connect high level input. Output tone to your L/R speakers (both) then adjust to 73dB. Adjust the high level input.
Reconnect the low level input, output tones at the same time to LFE, L&R the output should b 75dB

What a blooby mess LOL

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Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #750 of 793 Old 04-21-2014, 04:24 AM
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fatbottom,lol, it seems to me from reading a few of your posts that you do not like Rel subs,lol.You continuously say that Rel's are over priced and imply that they use inferior parts,lol.You also continuously tell people to improperly setup their Rel even though they are following the proper procedures according to Rel, lol.
Why do you even bother to frequent the Rel thread when clearly you are anti Rel?lol!

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