Official REL Subwoofer thread... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 793 Old 06-23-2008, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well folks, I figured it was about time that there was a dedicated REL thread to help answer any questions, share information, helpful tips, etc. As a proud REL dealer, I know that the REL gear can be a bit misunderstood and even tricky to set-up, so I'll try to answer your questions and help out as best as possible. July 9th through the 11th I'll be in REL training at Sumiko in California. I'm very excited to be attending this dedicated subwoofer class and I'm sure afterwards, I'll be even more proficient at helping everyone!

I currently have a Britannia B1 in my system that I just love coupled with my Monitor Audio GS speakers. I've also run the R-Series in my personal setup as well. So, if anyone has any questions, reviews or anything pertaining to REL, fire away!

Thanks.

Greg
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post #2 of 793 Old 06-24-2008, 04:53 AM
 
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Hi Greg,

Good stuff. I was getting lonely here as a new REL owner. I just purchased the Britannia B2 a couple of weeks ago and it mates extremely well with my Dynaudio Confidence C1 monitors. Beautiful looking sub to boot.

I am still playing around with placement and I don't have it quite dialed in yet but I am still working on it.

More to come a long with some questions I am sure.

Hopefully there will be some other "misunderstood" REL owners that join in .

Rick
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post #3 of 793 Old 06-24-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, they can be a bit picky with placement, but once they're really dialed in, they are fantasic. (That's not to say when they are pretty close, that they are no good). Luckily, the manuals that come with them do a good job explaining the set-up and they get you in the ballpark within about 20 minutes.
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post #4 of 793 Old 06-30-2008, 07:12 PM
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This thread is timely for me. I just upgraded my PSB 6i sub and PSB Synchrony Two's to the REL B1 and PSB Synchrony Ones. I'm hoping they get here this week.
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post #5 of 793 Old 07-01-2008, 07:52 PM
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I have a R-305 with a pair of PSB M2 Platinums and it's an awesome combination. The R-305 sounds more musical than any sub I've ever owned .
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post #6 of 793 Old 07-01-2008, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Agreed. They are definately well behaved. I had a R-505 myself, but due to the size of my room, I had to go bigger and went with the B1.

It's funny how on paper some of the most commonly looked at specs like driver and amplifier power rating are the same. But, other than the driver, they are completely different and they perform like completely different animals.
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post #7 of 793 Old 07-02-2008, 06:55 PM
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I have a Velodyne HGS 10 that needed an amp and really didn't know whether it was worth fixing so I started auditioning subs. I went to a dealer that has a large selection of good subs, REL,Velodyne,B&W,Sunfire,etc. A couple was listening to a T2 and I thought it sounded really nice for a small sub so I hung around when they pulled out a R-205. I was impressed and asked to listen to a 305 and it was just what I was looking for, small, huge sound for it's size, and musical. Before pulling the trigger I went to another dealer and compared the 305 with the Depth i. The Depth has great reviews and really sounds nice but the 305 was much more to my liking despite reviews that criticize it's low end and "poor measurements". It goes down plenty low for me, I use it in a 2.1 system and it rocks.
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post #8 of 793 Old 07-02-2008, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I get a kick out of reviews of equipment where they use sweeps and test tones in a driveway to show how a component performs. It's a good thing that I don't have my gear outside in 112* heat listening to test tones! Whew!
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post #9 of 793 Old 07-03-2008, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

I get a kick out of reviews of equipment where they use sweeps and test tones in a driveway to show how a component performs. It's a good thing that I don't have my gear outside in 112* heat listening to test tones! Whew!

Painful on several levels.
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post #10 of 793 Old 07-04-2008, 08:32 AM
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My REL B1 and PSB Synchronies should arrive next week. I can't wait to hear them. However, they will be in a living room, not a listening room nor theater room. I hope that works out.
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post #11 of 793 Old 07-04-2008, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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About how big volume wise, is your room? Mine is just over 8000 cubic feet, (2 story with vaulted ceilings, dining and kitchen all open to family room) and it pressurizes the room with ease.

Also, to help speed up your set-up time, you can read through the B-series manual beforehand to get more familiar with it and the set-up procedure:
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/manua...ies_manual.pdf

I have a copy of the "Sneakers" soundtrack that they mention in the manual and it works well. Another good track is #3 ("Continental Citizens"), from "The Way West" soundtrack CD. It's from an early '90's PBS documentry series, actually. It features a big indian drum with the hide loosened up on it a bit so it really plays low and it repeats through out the track.
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post #12 of 793 Old 07-04-2008, 01:26 PM
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Thanks for the recommendations. I will study the manuel. Fortunately for me, one of the guys who will be setting up my speakers, attended the REL school at Sumiko. I would guess my room's volume to be about 7000 sq. ft. I can't adequately describe the thrill of hearing Biggs play Bach's Toccatas and Fugues on the Freiburg organs when the Synchronies were hooked up to the B1. I don't have those tracks you mentioned, but I will attempt to get them before the installation. My system has a Marantz SR8002, PSB Synchrony Ones, One B's and One C. I don't have the surrounds at this time. I love Blu-ray, but I must say the sound is even more important to me than the picture.
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post #13 of 793 Old 07-04-2008, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good.

If you don't already have it, check out "Organ Blaster Sampler" by Telarc. Another track I like for demo purposes is "Fields of Gold" by Eva Cassidy. It features a female solo vocalist and an acoustic guitar. That's it. Once your new gear is all set up, play this song with the B1 off and then play it again with it turned on. It really shows what material is missing that many people don't even know exists!

Greg
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post #14 of 793 Old 07-10-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

Sounds good.

If you don't already have it, check out "Organ Blaster Sampler" by Telarc. Another track I like for demo purposes is "Fields of Gold" by Eva Cassidy. It features a female solo vocalist and an acoustic guitar. That's it. Once your new gear is all set up, play this song with the B1 off and then play it again with it turned on. It really shows what material is missing that many people don't even know exists!

Greg

I had not heard Eva Cassidy until your recommendation. She was an incredible artist. I am still waitng for my REL. Anyone else getting a REL?
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post #15 of 793 Old 07-10-2008, 09:47 PM
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I also auditioned several other sub like the Depth and Definitive Technologies Cube. I was going to get REL T1 but when I heard it I was not that impressed, it didn't go as low as I would have liked. In the next level up from REL was the R series and more money but after listening to it I knew it was the one. I am totally happy with my R205. I use it mostly for music and once setup and placed correctly it adds the richness to the sound that just make the music so much more enjoyable to listen to.
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post #16 of 793 Old 07-12-2008, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I got in late last night from the Sumiko training and I'm still tired! It was a great class with a wealth of great information.

I was very impressed with their facility and the staff. It's great that everyone there is extremely knowledgable and is truely passionalte about what they do!

In their high-end 2-channel room was a pair of Sonus Faber Stradivari's and a REL Studio III. Talk about goose-bumps! Listening to that system is almost spooky. Listening to some Louis Armstrong on vinyl and you would swear he's in the room, but just invisible. Then moving to some pipe-organ music and hearing/feeling a 17Hz note with true musical meaning can be quite eerie. It moves across the room like a flood of slowly moving water washing over everything in its path.

As westcoastman touched on, once set-up properly, they integrate into to your existing system seamlessly rather than having some "boombox" sitting in the corner going "thud, thud, thud."
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post #17 of 793 Old 07-13-2008, 08:05 AM
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Congrats on your great experience at Sumiko. Please share more details. From my own selfish viewpoint, what about the Britannia series?
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post #18 of 793 Old 07-13-2008, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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There were Britannias sprinkled around like Easter eggs. Heck, in the main training room they had 1 of each model. A B1 for the LFE and tied to the mains, a B3 tied to the center channel and a B2 tied to the rears! Now that makes for one exciting movie experience.

Did you get a chance to demo the B1 at your dealers place?
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post #19 of 793 Old 07-13-2008, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkshift View Post

There were Britannias sprinkled around like Easter eggs. Heck, in the main training room they had 1 of each model. A B1 for the LFE and tied to the mains, a B3 tied to the center channel and a B2 tied to the rears! Now that makes for one exciting movie experience.

That had to be incredible. What speakers were they using?

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Did you get a chance to demo the B1 at your dealers place?

I did that two weeks ago. I think my B1 will be set up this week. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
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post #20 of 793 Old 07-13-2008, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, nothing much really....just 2 pair of Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grands and a Maestro Grand center channel.
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post #21 of 793 Old 07-13-2008, 11:35 PM
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Well, now you'll need to duplicate that at your dealship.
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post #22 of 793 Old 07-21-2008, 10:15 AM
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I am interested in adding a REL subwoofer to (what will be) my system. I plan on purchasing 2 Dynaudio Audience 72's, a Dynaudio Audience 122c, and 2 Dynaudio Audience 42w's. I've listened to them at a local dealer and was sold. They had a REL T1 setup with the above speakers and it sounded pretty good.

I also heard a REL R-205 with a pair of Dynaudio Focus 220's.

Since I'm going to go with the Audience series, would there be any benefit to going to the REL R Series? What are the main differences between the 2 subs? I lose 100 Watts and it's $200 more... I'm sure there's more to it than that. Can anyone with experience with both chime in here? Or make recommendations with one over the other?

I like to have a decent amount of bass, but not crazily boomy. A good balance between musical and good for movies is what I'm looking for in a sub - even though this doesn't necessarily follow my musical preferences below...

My listening preferences are:
70% Movies / TV
20% Music
10% Video Games

Thanks!
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post #23 of 793 Old 07-21-2008, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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There are several differences between the R and T series. The T Series uses a down-firing woofer with a front firing passive radiator where the R series have a sealed cabinet, front firing woofer. The R Series uses Class D amplifiers and the T Series uses A/B amplifiers.

In short, they are 2 completely different designs. They share similar inputs, same woofer size, (not the same woofer, just the size), similar setup methods and the REL nameplate. More than likely, your dealer had the R-205 set up in a 2-channel stereo system and the T series in a surround system. (?) Since you like more movies/ TV and a portion of use will be for gaming, I'd say go with the T Series. If you valued 2-channel stereo more, then I would suggest the R Series.

Plus, down the road it would be less expensive for you to add a couple of T-3's or T-2's to your surround channels and your center channel! Then you'd really be having fun.

When you get it home, pay close attention to the manual for setting it up. It also helps speed the process up if you have a partner. Don't be affraid to experiment with different corners of the room, either.

Have fun! Sounds like a nice system!
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post #24 of 793 Old 07-21-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
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There are several differences between the R and T series. The T Series uses a down-firing woofer with a front firing passive radiator where the R series have a sealed cabinet, front firing woofer. The R Series uses Class D amplifiers and the T Series uses A/B amplifiers.

In short, they are 2 completely different designs. They share similar inputs, same woofer size, (not the same woofer, just the size), similar setup methods and the REL nameplate. More than likely, your dealer had the R-205 set up in a 2-channel stereo system and the T series in a surround system. (?) Since you like more movies/ TV and a portion of use will be for gaming, I'd say go with the T Series. If you valued 2-channel stereo more, then I would suggest the R Series.

Plus, down the road it would be less expensive for you to add a couple of T-3's or T-2's to your surround channels and your center channel! Then you'd really be having fun.

When you get it home, pay close attention to the manual for setting it up. It also helps speed the process up if you have a partner. Don't be affraid to experiment with different corners of the room, either.

Have fun! Sounds like a nice system!

Kwkshift,

Thanks for responding, I was leaning toward the T1. Yes, you are exactly right, my local dealer had the T1 in a 5.1 setup and the R-205 in a 2 channel setup. Which for my soon to be 5.1 setup, makes sense. Both sounded pretty amazing to me.

I'm learning all I can about loudspeakers, subwoofers, etc... but even after reading a lot about "passive radiators" I still don't really understand them. What benefits do they provide? In contrast, what benefits do sealed sub boxes provide?

Thanks!
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post #25 of 793 Old 07-21-2008, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The passive radiators in the T Series is basically a speaker cone with no voice coil assy. that is specifically weighted to tune the sub and allow it to have more output at a lower frequency. It's another way to "load" the driver to act as an acoustic spring. Lots of times, when listening to a subwoofer with a passive radiator, you can hear this "thut" sound emminating from the unit that colors the sound. However, in developing the T Series, they really did their homework on the crossover network and all associated electronics inside the subs to make them as efficient and accurate as possible eliminating that problem.

Basically, the R-Series will have a faster "attack" but the T Series will have more overall output.

The next time you go to your dealers store, just for fun, check out some of their bigger brothers from the B Series and the Reference Series, if they have them. The biggest model is the Studio III.
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post #26 of 793 Old 07-21-2008, 09:00 PM
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The passive radiators in the T Series is basically a speaker cone with no voice coil assy. that is specifically weighted to tune the sub and allow it to have more output at a lower frequency. It's another way to "load" the driver to act as an acoustic spring. Lots of times, when listening to a subwoofer with a passive radiator, you can hear this "thut" sound emminating from the unit that colors the sound. However, in developing the T Series, they really did their homework on the crossover network and all associated electronics inside the subs to make them as efficient and accurate as possible eliminating that problem.

Basically, the R-Series will have a faster "attack" but the T Series will have more overall output.

The next time you go to your dealers store, just for fun, check out some of their bigger brothers from the B Series and the Reference Series, if they have them. The biggest model is the Studio III.

Kwkshift,

Thanks for the great explanation, that finally makes sense. The Wikipedia explanation and Google searches just weren't making sense to me.

I appreciate your help and plan on adding the T1 to my home theater.

I'll check out the higher models the next time I'm there. Definitely worth hearing the next level...

Thanks!
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post #27 of 793 Old 07-22-2008, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
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Kwkshift,

Thanks for the great explanation, that finally makes sense. The Wikipedia explanation and Google searches just weren't making sense to me.

I appreciate your help and plan on adding the T1 to my home theater.

I'll check out the higher models the next time I'm there. Definitely worth hearing the next level...

Thanks!

If you really want to try to get a grip on passive radiators and ports, you should read this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1044443

Even though the title is "How do Ported Subs Work", there is a lot of discussion about passive radiators.

Mark Seaton knows both ported and passive radiators like few others. He will be coming out with his BMF, which will have 3 passive radiators. The BMF is going to be one of the best subs money can buy.

People are buying hundreds and hundreds of his ported MFW-15s sold by AV123. Some people can't wait to get their hands on the BMF. It weighs >150 pounds, and is likely to cost ~$2,000.
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post #28 of 793 Old 07-22-2008, 08:26 AM
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Some people can't wait to get their hands on the BMF. It weighs >150 pounds, and is likely to cost ~$2,000.

But when??? I was one of those people who couldn't wait and I gave up on that one a long, long time ago. I'm glad I did because there are too many great subs out there now to be waiting around for who knows how long. I'd be shocked to see that sub out by year's end and they've been talking about it for well over two years already.
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post #29 of 793 Old 07-22-2008, 10:34 AM
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But when??? I was one of those people who couldn't wait and I gave up on that one a long, long time ago. I'm glad I did because there are too many great subs out there now to be waiting around for who knows how long. I'd be shocked to see that sub out by year's end and they've been talking about it for well over two years already.

Hi mojo:

I meant to say that "some people CAN wait to get their hands on the BMF".

I was not suggesting that the OP wait for a BMF. I was suggesting that the performance differences between a well designed passive radiator sub, a well designed ported sub, and a well designed sealed sub are not very significant.

For the sake of discussion if subs with passive radiators make a "thut" noise as our friend the REL dealer has suggested, than we can also say that ported subs produce "chuffing" noise when pushed at resonance.

Neither design is likely to make any rude noises when operated within design constraints.

More than a few people are into sealed designs. Sealed designs will produce more and more distortion when pushed, unless there is some form of limiter.

In sum, I was just trying to suggest to the OP that a well executed passive radiator design could be a prodigious performer, and that talking about "thut" noises out of context did the OP a bit of a disservice.

Perhaps Mark Seaton will drop in and update us on the progress of the BMF. Also, Mark Seaton among others has and can produce excellent subs that are sealed, ported, or have passive radiators.

I will leave you with this quote from Keith Yates an HT designer who spent 6 months testing some of the worlds best subs including the Genelec HTS6, and the Velodyne DD-18.

"If you have trouble believing that subs of different sizes, driver configurations, amplfier capabilities, cabinet makeup, countries of origin, and prices could possibly sound alike on challenging material, just take them outside, away from walls and the standing waves they create, match the levels, and listen for yourself."
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post #30 of 793 Old 07-22-2008, 10:48 AM
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I still want to see the BMF come to market even if I personally no longer have a need for it. I enjoy watching great subwoofers being born and I'm sure that when if finally comes, it's going to be really good.
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