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post #271 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowcarIX View Post

those 2 i posted are mild...you should try
-flight of the phoenix
-kungfu panda too...the skidoosh scene!!!
those soundtracks are wicked and will give your th112 a good workout

I have these 2 and WOTW, quite ok for the DVD. I have the Lambda 15s to help out from 80-100Hz and above, so its pretty wicked here also in a 1200 cu ft room. Anyway I am quite kiasee, so I BW-48 at 30+ depending on mood when I am pushing. Its not worth blowing a driver when just for that few Hz, which is like 1/4 oct at 30.

So if I ever expand much into HT I probably will need another sub to dig low down. My current setup is already "neighbour limited", will be moving near year though. Lets see if I could get a SPUD or something. Or perhaps old school which still works, 2 x 18" Mal-X sealed and call it a day. (issue is DIY cabs here are not cheap and QSC or any pro amp prices are like nearly 35% more than in USA)

But if the economy here does not improve by mid next year, probably it will be budget limited also.
Hey if you are coming back to SG do give me a ring.
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post #272 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Actually the cut in half size would be 60x30.5x28.

RockMonster. Same size, but with 4 times the drivers (they are smaller-12") 30Hz ish is the planned low freq corner.
It also could be cut in half as a smaller product if desired.

Both of these are designed for "larger" rooms.

Double thumbs up, good to see that DSL is still expanding in this kind of ecomomic climate and finally some extremely serious competition for the Bassmaxx!
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post #273 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

Hi RMK,

I think you shoud go for Mid/Hi horm load with SH-50 to have full horn loaded system with SPUDS.


But why when he already said in several posts how happy he is with the upgrade over his previous Revel/JL Audio set up? You can always find better, but I doubt it will come more inexpensive than what he paid for his Triple 12LFs second hand.
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post #274 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

But why when he already said in several posts how happy he is with the upgrade over his previous Revel/JL Audio set up? You can always find better, but I doubt it will come more inexpensive than what he paid for his Triple 12LFs second hand.

There is always something "better" out there. It is time for me to get my video up to this level of performance.

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post #275 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 08:29 AM
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RMK, I know you are still playing, but when you get a little more time with the front dual SPUD location, can you give a little more detailed synopsis? I'm too leaning towards dual SPUDS and my locations would be 2 as a riser behind the first row of seating or 2 up front. Thanks much.

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post #276 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

But after spending several hours with the dual SPUDS in the front sound stage position listening to movies, music and LFE demo material, the reality of what clean and virtually limitless bass should sound like has finally sunk in. The SPUDS in combo with the JTR's are giving me HT sound beyond any expectation.

I can't wait to hear these in person! When's your next GTG?
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post #277 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 10:19 AM
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Very good news, RMK!

Not like we were expecting anything less with dual SPUDS...

Just for kicks, it would be fun to see what kind of SPL readings you are getting at your LP now with the SPUDS in your front position.

Seems like you did a couple scenes from the Dark Knight last time.

I'm trying to remember what your room size is--please remind me.

Also, any details of what you notice SQ-wise over conventional boxes would be cool.

Glad you're enjoying--I'm still figuring out a way to get myself into Danley!

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post #278 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

RMK, I know you are still playing, but when you get a little more time with the front dual SPUD location, can you give a little more detailed synopsis? I'm too leaning towards dual SPUDS and my locations would be 2 as a riser behind the first row of seating or 2 up front. Thanks much.

I can give you more superlatives or SPL numbers but it really depends on your preferences, use and room. In looking at the room frequency response graphs via my SMS-1 there is not much usable output below 20 Hz. There could be a number of reasons for this like the current center front wall position of the SPUD’s horn exit. I have a high pass of 15hz/24db slope set on the SMS-1 so I was expecting a bit more output below 20hz but honestly at this juncture the bass is so clean and powerful that I can live without the infrasonic bass.

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post #279 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by allredp View Post

Just for kicks, it would be fun to see what kind of SPL readings you are getting at your LP now with the SPUDS in your front position.

Single number SPL readings can be very misleading. Below are a number of SPL readings made at a concert Danley provided sound for.

They are all totally valid measurements, just expressed differently.

In ALL of these the same position was used, the same meter was used, the same band/PA was used.

The measurement position was at the mix position around 80' from the stage.

Of course all of these averages because it was music. I did not put a max hold on.

A weighted slow 107dB

C weighted slow 120dB

C weighted fast 129

Peak response was over 133dB. My meter only goes to 133dB and it was constantly going "over scale". A guess would be in the 136dB or more range.

All this to say that simply expressing a single SPL number, without knowing exactly how it was taken and the parameters around it can be very misleading.

At the above concert you could say that it was "only" 107dB (if you wanted a low number) or mid 130's if you wanted to say how LOUD it was.

It just depends

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post #280 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 02:05 PM
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Ivan!
People don't want to hear this kind of thing. It makes the 125db that they measured out of their 200w 12" powered subwoofer not seem as good. Plus it's just darn confusing and technical.

Also you forgot to mention: distance from the subwoofer, room effects, was it only the sub operating?, were correction files used for the meters inaccuracies at low freq's, etc.
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post #281 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Ivan!
People don't want to hear this kind of thing. It makes the 125db that they measured out of their 200w 12" powered subwoofer not seem as good. Plus it's just darn confusing and technical.

Also you forgot to mention: distance from the subwoofer, room effects, was it only the sub operating?, were correction files used for the meters inaccuracies at low freq's, etc.

Yeah. you cannot describe anything in audio with a single number-but that is all a lot of people want to hear/understand.

And they will attempt to "compare" a properly gathered spec number with something that is totally bogus.

That is what makes audio so hard-and makes for interesting "discussions".

As the saying goes "For every complex question, there is a simple-easy to understand-WRONG answer!".

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post #282 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

Single number SPL readings can be very misleading. Below are a number of SPL readings made at a concert Danley provided sound for....

All this to say that simply expressing a single SPL number, without knowing exactly how it was taken and the parameters around it can be very misleading.

At the above concert you could say that it was "only" 107dB (if you wanted a low number) or mid 130's if you wanted to say how LOUD it was.

It just depends

I hear you--though if I had been at that concert I might not be able to!

No doubt different settings on your SPL meter will give you quite different readings and thereby convey vastly different "meanings."

I'm assuming that most AVS guys are doing the standard C-weighted Slow readings at LP.

I've said earlier that I'm not a bass-head. I not in to SPL for SPL-sake--if I were it would be much easier and cheaper to DIY some 140db+ MDF monsters!

Even so, SPL readings (if using the same reading like C-slow) remain a significant indicator of a subwoofer's capability.

RMK! has shown himself to be a discerning consumer who has had quite an impressive array of equipment. His subjective experience is extremely valuable.

Using a common source (in this case The Dark Knight scenes discussed above), in the same room on the same equipment, SPL readings become at least part of the performance equation.

My interest in RMK!'s SPL readings at his LP is two-fold:

1. RMK! already did a baseline on his own room's SPL reading at LP with a single SPUD in the nearfield. It now becomes of interest what the SPL reaches at his LP with dual SPUDS located on his front wall (16ft away from LP). This is simply a comparison of RMK!'s own room with only two variables changed--number of subs and position of those subs.

2. His room and mine are fairly similar in size and I also have acoustic treatments along the same line as his. We have both had the same subs (JL F113 and SVS PB13 Ultra) in our rooms in the past. I know what 110-20dB feels like in my room, and I like it! If RMK!'s SPUDs are producing peaks in that range, then I know that I'm at least in the same realm of performance as I'm used to--though hopefully at even greater SQ levels. With talk of "fast" and "clean" and "different," you can imagine the need to still establish basic output levels as well.

Don't misinterpret my interest in RMK!'s numbers--I'm not a basher or a troll or a competitor, just a fellow enthusiast looking very hard at my next potential purchase.

Believe me, I'm a fan of Danley and I've never actually heard one yet!

At any rate, I appreciate AVS and similar forums where consumers and companies can engage in such informative product performance discussions. I could never have hoped to have the level of a/v performance and enjoyment as I currently have without such outlets, and I am surely hoping to continue this kind of flow of information in order to reach the next level.

creative>energy

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post #283 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 02:28 PM
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Hi RMK
Your second spud arrived I see, I am reminded of the words spoken by Monty Burns excellent.
At a time when you feel like pushing black boxes around for fun, there are a couple things you might want to try in addition to sitting on them.
Given ones room has a strong impact on the results, it is often the case where setting up one way in one rooms works best while in another room, a different setup works best.
In other words, there are things in room acoustics where if you have the luxury to experiment, you may find that the best path to the best possible results.

You mention you have the ability to measure response, this is good.
While I am not familiar with the product it appears you have this?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...05-part-1.html

The write up for the controller has some things to consider;
It mentions there is a subsonic high pass filter, confirm it is set to 15Hz.
Make sure there is not a high pass or subsonic filter in your amplifier and what ever is driving it. Often commercial amplifiers have a high pass protection filter, it should be mentioned if present in the manual.
Note the eq provided on page 3.
It is mentioned that you shouldn't try to lift the dips, this is correct in more than one way. A dip is likely to be caused by a reflection, a delayed signal that arrives and cancels the original. That kind of problem can't be fixed, the more energy you apply, the stronger the reflection is, with pink noise and a simple RTA, it can appear that your helping but your not, your increasing the Q of it, not filling it in. . \\
EQ is a correction linked in magnitude AND phase, unlike things you can fix with EQ, you can improve the amplitude sometimes but you screw up the phase if you try to fix these kinds of problems.

The bottom line is, your normally much better off cutting a bump than lifting a depression. On page 3, the unmodified in room response and eq is shown.
To make the speaker they show flat to 15Hz, given the eq available, it would all have to be cuts.
If there were a slider at 15Hz, then that could be lifted instead as it is the box roll off and not a reflection / cancellation. Fwiw, this would be too much to fix with eq too.
You would need to make up for the reduction in output over most of its band by increasing the gain post eq say in the amplifier drive or gain.

Anyway (staring outside at the snow falling again), like I said when you feel like some exertion, try these;
Try placing the outlet for each spud in the outer corners with the box moved into the wall / wall corner. This produces an acoustic mirror for the box by being up against the corner and raises the efficiency and lowers the low corner.
Try placing the subwoofers standing up together with the outlets at the bottom together.
This replaces the mirror image the room wall provided above with an actual source.
Also, this pair has some forward directivity over a point source due to it's physical shape at /near the exit, in effect being a 180 degree horn.

Now what may not be clear is unlike a vented box or other direct radiator system, with horns you have a factor one can fiddle with. In the Tapped horn as with a conventional horn, the path length is partly what governs the low corner frequency.
Placing the spuds near a boundary or second unit does increase the length and lower the corner f .

If you want to try tuning the system lower, there is another configuration you can try.
Place the cabinets either together in the center or separately in each corner BUT place the outlet facing into the back wall / corner and move the cabinets about 8 inches away from the back wall.
In this configuration, one is extending the path length as well. Normally one see's some loss of sensitivity above the low corner compared to the conventional mounting but that is in trade for a much lower corner F.
Given the sensitivity of a pair of spuds compared to normal subs, its worth a try especially since you have a way to measure and compare the results.

It's too bad with room acoustics you can't just say do this and it works the best, I mean you can to a degree but I can't tell you what will work best in your room / house.

Since your playing with LF, Try the fireworks recording on our website, it has no high pass or compression and if I remember correctly, it was as strong at 10Hz as it was at 50Hz.
Approach the level carefully as this will tax the headroom in every part of your system and won't sound loud at all.
Sit back and pretend your sitting in the dark, near the woods in my backyard and to make it a lot nicer, pretend there are no mosquitoes.
Best,
Tom Danley
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, wishing good sound to all.
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post #284 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allredp View Post

I hear you--though if I had been at that concert I might not be able to!

No doubt different settings on your SPL meter will give you quite different readings and thereby convey vastly different "meanings."

I'm assuming that most AVS guys are doing the standard C-weighted Slow readings at LP.

I've said earlier that I'm not a bass-head. I not in to SPL for SPL-sake--if I were it would be much easier and cheaper to DIY some 140db+ MDF monsters!

Even so, SPL readings (if using the same reading like C-slow) remain a significant indicator of a subwoofer's capability.

RMK! has shown himself to be a discerning consumer who has had quite an impressive array of equipment. His subjective experience is extremely valuable.

Using a common source (in this case The Dark Knight scenes discussed above), in the same room on the same equipment, SPL readings become at least part of the performance equation.

My interest in RMK!'s SPL readings at his LP is two-fold:

1. RMK! already did a baseline on his own room's SPL reading at LP with a single SPUD in the nearfield. It now becomes of interest what the SPL reaches at his LP with dual SPUDS located on his front wall (16ft away from LP). This is simply a comparison of RMK!'s own room with only two variables changed--number of subs and position of those subs.

2. His room and mine are fairly similar in size and I also have acoustic treatments along the same line as his. We have both had the same subs (JL F113 and SVS PB13 Ultra) in our rooms in the past. I know what 110-20dB feels like in my room, and I like it! If RMK!'s SPUDs are producing peaks in that range, then I know that I'm at least in the same realm of performance as I'm used to--though hopefully at even greater SQ levels. With talk of "fast" and "clean" and "different," you can imagine the need to still establish basic output levels as well.

Don't misinterpret my interest in RMK!'s numbers--I'm not a basher or a troll or a competitor, just a fellow enthusiast looking very hard at my next potential purchase.

Believe me, I'm a fan of Danley and I've never actually heard one yet!

At any rate, I appreciate AVS and similar forums where consumers and companies can engage in such informative product performance discussions. I could never have hoped to have the level of a/v performance and enjoyment as I currently have without such outlets, and I am surely hoping to continue this kind of flow of information in order to reach the next level.

I wasn't trying to start any arguments, but just wanted to point out there is often than meets the eye/ear".

Getting accurate/comparable measurements are not easy to do properly and comparing is not all that easy.

In RMK's case, there is only one variable, so results would be comparable.

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
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post #285 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 03:34 PM
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Here's a waterfall of the fireworks recording. There's a little bit of content below 20hz I like the train recordings too BTW. They go pretty low also.


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post #286 of 433 Old 12-23-2008, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

I wasn't trying to start any arguments, but just wanted to point out there is often than meets the eye/ear".

Getting accurate/comparable measurements are not easy to do properly and comparing is not all that easy.

In RMK's case, there is only one variable, so results would be comparable.

Ivan, you raised very valid points--no worries here. I couldn't agree with you more about the difficulty of getting accurate/comparable measurements...

Thanks for the feedback. It is a very cool thing to interact here on AVS.

Keep up the great work at Danley.

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post #287 of 433 Old 12-24-2008, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allredp View Post

Just for kicks, it would be fun to see what kind of SPL readings you are getting at your LP now with the SPUDS in your front position.

My room is approx 3600^3. FWIW, in the armored car/Batmobile scene I hit 109db max @ LP same volume (-7) on the Integra.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post

Hi RMK
Your second spud arrived I see, I am reminded of the words spoken by Monty Burns “excellent”.
At a time when you feel like pushing black boxes around for fun, there are a couple things you might want to try in addition to sitting on them.
Given ones room has a strong impact on the results, it is often the case where setting up one way in one rooms works best while in another room, a different setup works best.
In other words, there are things in room acoustics where if you have the luxury to experiment, you may find that the best path to the best possible results.

You mention you have the ability to measure response, this is good.
While I am not familiar with the product it appears you have this?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...05-part-1.html

The write up for the controller has some things to consider;
It mentions there is a subsonic high pass filter, confirm it is set to 15Hz.
Make sure there is not a “high pass” or subsonic filter in your amplifier and what ever is driving it. Often commercial amplifiers have a high pass protection filter, it should be mentioned if present in the manual.
Note the eq provided on page 3.
It is mentioned that you shouldn’t try to lift the dips, this is correct in more than one way. A dip is likely to be caused by a reflection, a delayed signal that arrives and cancels the original. That kind of problem can’t be fixed, the more energy you apply, the stronger the reflection is, with pink noise and a simple RTA, it can appear that your helping but your not, your increasing the Q of it, not filling it in. . \\
EQ is a correction linked in magnitude AND phase, unlike things you can fix with EQ, you can improve the amplitude sometimes but you screw up the phase if you try to fix these kinds of problems.

The bottom line is, your normally much better off cutting a bump than lifting a depression. On page 3, the unmodified in room response and eq is shown.
To make the speaker they show “flat” to 15Hz, given the eq available, it would all have to be cuts.
If there were a slider at 15Hz, then that could be lifted instead as it is the box roll off and not a reflection / cancellation. Fwiw, this would be too much to “fix” with eq too.
You would need to make up for the reduction in output over most of its band by increasing the gain post eq say in the amplifier drive or gain.

Anyway (staring outside at the snow falling again), like I said when you feel like some exertion, try these;
Try placing the outlet for each spud in the outer corners with the box moved into the wall / wall corner. This produces an acoustic mirror for the box by being up against the corner and raises the efficiency and lowers the low corner.
Try placing the subwoofers standing up together with the outlets at the bottom together.
This replaces the mirror image the room wall provided above with an actual source.
Also, this pair has some forward directivity over a point source due to it’s physical shape at /near the exit, in effect being a 180 degree horn.

Now what may not be clear is unlike a vented box or other direct radiator system, with horns you have a factor one can fiddle with. In the Tapped horn as with a conventional horn, the path length is partly what governs the low corner frequency.
Placing the spuds near a boundary or second unit does increase the length and lower the corner f .

If you want to try tuning the system lower, there is another configuration you can try.
Place the cabinets either together in the center or separately in each corner BUT place the outlet facing into the back wall / corner and move the cabinets about 8 inches away from the back wall.
In this configuration, one is extending the path length as well. Normally one see’s some loss of sensitivity above the low corner compared to the conventional mounting but that is in trade for a much lower corner F.
Given the sensitivity of a pair of spuds compared to normal subs, its worth a try especially since you have a way to measure and compare the results.

It’s too bad with room acoustics you can’t just say do this and it works the best, I mean you can to a degree but I can’t tell you what will work best in your room / house.

Since your playing with LF, Try the fireworks recording on our website, it has no “high pass” or compression and if I remember correctly, it was as strong at 10Hz as it was at 50Hz.
Approach the level carefully as this will tax the headroom in every part of your system and won’t sound loud at all.
Sit back and pretend your sitting in the dark, near the woods in my backyard and to make it a lot nicer, pretend there are no mosquitoes.
Best,
Tom Danley
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, wishing good sound to all.

Yes Tom, as Bill said to Ted "most excellent"

Thank you for the placement suggestions. I will give them a try during the holidays. With the three possible outlet positions that does create some options.

I have the high pass (Subsonic Filter) on the Velo SMS-1 set to 15Hz with a 12db/octave slope. I am using the bass management and Audyssey Multi-EQ room correction software of my SSP (Integra DCT9.8).

As you mentioned, the real time display of the Velo SMS-1 is a very cool tool for observing changes in the FR as the SPUDS are moved or settings changed. I’ve got to say that in their current location I have a nice flat FR from 17-100Hz. Since adding the second SPUD and changing out the drivers I am not experiencing bottoming even when pushed very hard.

The system is sounding very good (best ever) but that said, I have all of these tools (toys) so I might as well use them. After all this is a hobby and for me knowledge is best gained through experimentation. I am an expert in learning from my mistakes but purchasing the SPUDS isn't one of them.

Wishing all a very Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!!!

HToM

"Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?"
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post #288 of 433 Old 12-25-2008, 02:02 AM
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Ivan, can you tell me how much does the SB850 (not sure of the exact variant) really goes for? Just heard 8pcs of them in a probably 100m by 100m venue for Xmas (KF750 tops i believe, camco amps). Gezuz, no low bass at all though it sounds pretty ok, barely hits 40Hz. Will it go louder than say 8 x TH-112 below 100Hz? I was thinking of about the same from the EAW specs with the TH-112 dipping lower and of course slimmer and shorter. Not sure of xover point there.
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post #289 of 433 Old 12-25-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

My room is approx 3600^3. FWIW, in the armored car/Batmobile scene I hit 109db max @ LP same volume (-7) on the Integra.

...I’ve got to say that in their current location I have a nice flat FR from 17-100Hz. Since adding the second SPUD and changing out the drivers I am not experiencing bottoming even when pushed very hard.

The system is sounding very good (best ever) but that said, I have all of these tools (toys) so I might as well use them. After all this is a hobby and for me knowledge is best gained through experimentation. I am an expert in learning from my mistakes but purchasing the SPUDS isn't one of them.

Wishing all a very Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!!!

Hey RMK!, thanks for that SPL fix.

Looks like your room setup is hitting on some very serious cylinders!!!

Flat from 17-100hz... One day, I can dream of such response!

Keep us posted on what you learn as you experiment with Tom's suggestions, etc.

Merry Christmas to you too.

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post #290 of 433 Old 12-25-2008, 02:01 PM
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Ivan, can you tell me how much does the SB850 (not sure of the exact variant) really goes for? Just heard 8pcs of them in a probably 100m by 100m venue for Xmas (KF750 tops i believe, camco amps). Gezuz, no low bass at all though it sounds pretty ok, barely hits 40Hz. Will it go louder than say 8 x TH-112 below 100Hz? I was thinking of about the same from the EAW specs with the TH-112 dipping lower and of course slimmer and shorter. Not sure of xover point there.

One of the problems with judging a system that you simply listen to, is that you have no idea how the particular system is set-eq/crossover/level wise etc.

Often bad apparent performance is due to a bad setup-not necessarily a particular products performance. I could also be the way the sound guy was operating it. maybe he was taking away the deep bass for clarity in overall sound. Hard to say without being in the "drivers seat".

When comparing the SB850 to a TH112 (which is not a comparison that I would make) you will see that below 40hz the output of the TH112 is around 3-4dB louder than the 850. That is greater than twice the amount of power needed into the 850 to be as loud as the TH112.

However the SB850 does handle quite a bit more power than a TH112, so it would be able to get louder. I am sure it costs more also-I do not know the current price. It is also physically larger.

They really are two different cabinets designed for 2 different usages.

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post #291 of 433 Old 12-26-2008, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by allredp View Post

Hey RMK!, thanks for that SPL fix.

Looks like your room setup is hitting on some very serious cylinders!!!

Flat from 17-100hz... One day, I can dream of such response!

Keep us posted on what you learn as you experiment with Tom's suggestions, etc.

Merry Christmas to you too.

When I say flat, I mean +/- 3db. Here is a Velo graph from yesterday. I played with the phase and EQ today and got it flatter with a little better extension on each end (didn't take any pics). I'm really liking the bass from the front placement. Again, not as tactile but more natural and very fast with no overhang.



For those that want their world rocked the nearfield placement is the way to go. For me one was enough but YMMV.

HToM

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post #292 of 433 Old 12-26-2008, 07:09 PM
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is this before or after Audyssey?

decouple your couch from the floor with one of these in each feet: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/home_th...ies/RI-K28.htm

magnifies with the tactile effect of the pressure wave
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post #293 of 433 Old 12-26-2008, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SlowcarIX View Post

is this before or after Audyssey?

decouple your couch from the floor with one of these in each feet: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/home_th...ies/RI-K28.htm

magnifies with the tactile effect of the pressure wave

Audyssey off. I will be running it again and tweaking the SMS-1 EQ this week.

I have HT chairs and actually have plenty of tactile ... just not as much as the nearfield placement which was just silly.

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post #294 of 433 Old 01-19-2009, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I am going to be trying alternate positions other than the Front position you see below. I like the sound of the current location but I miss the tactile I had when near-field behind the LP.

Ports' facing the front wall isn't an option as it requires 8" of space to the wall and I am going to go with a larger FP screen that will prohibit that placement.

My two preferred options are stacked in front with the CC sitting on top (the current CC base is detached). I will use a pair of Subdudes to decouple the Center from the subs and add an extra bit of height making the center at approx the same height as current. The other option is stacked in the back of the room. My questions is if stacking them flat, should the ports be aligned or on opposite sides. In either case the top sub would be farther from the floor boundary and I'm wondering what if any issues that will create.


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post #295 of 433 Old 01-19-2009, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I am going to be trying alternate positions other than the Front position you see below. I like the sound of the current location but I miss the tactile I had when near-field behind the LP.

Ports' facing the front wall isn't an option as it requires 8" of space to the wall and I am going to go with a larger FP screen that will prohibit that placement.

My two preferred options are stacked in front with the CC sitting on top (the current CC base is detached). I will use a pair of Subdudes to decouple the Center from the subs and add an extra bit of height making the center at approx the same height as current. The other option is stacked in the back of the room. My questions is if stacking them flat, should the ports be aligned or on opposite sides. In either case the top sub would be farther from the floor boundary and I'm wondering what if any issues that will create.

Cool, let us know what you experience!

Nothing like a holiday to futz around with the gear, eh?!

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post #296 of 433 Old 01-20-2009, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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First off, I'd like to thank Brian (InPhase) for his assistance in moving the subs around the room and his general HT knowledge and expertise. After moving the THSPUDS to stacked front n center, then the same stacked placement in the rear of the room and then flat, side by side with ports aligned, I am back to my front vertical placement (per the previous photos).

As much as I love the extreme tactile feel of the nearfield placement, the shaking was just too much for the SO. Also, when firing from the rear into the seat backs the bass energy is more easily localized and I found that distracting and unnatural. It may be that the perfect location is under the seats as was the designs intent but I have not tried that location due to some other factors like current seating width.

It is really an amazing that a sub with just two 8” drivers can produce this quality and quantity of bass. For the time being, I am going to live with the industrial looking front sound stage of the JTR’s and THSPUD. It is a look that I and the SO have come to like and as the room is dedicated there really is no compelling reason to change.

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post #297 of 433 Old 01-20-2009, 12:28 PM
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It was fun to hear this pair of incredible subs. The clarity of Danley products is always a wake up. I'm used to large sealed subs, and the Danleys reveal details in the bass that I have never heard. It is always nice to get to hang out with others that share this disease, I mean passion.

Really? You went back to front placement? My inclination is that the front placement will always provide the most natural bass. Just out of curiosity, did you ever try standing them up and having them aim lenthwise out from the front wall towards the listening position? (I know this is ugly and won't be permanent, but I'm curious if their are any noticeable sound differences.) Are you leaning towards flush mounting them?
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post #298 of 433 Old 01-20-2009, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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It was fun to hear this pair of incredible subs. The clarity of Danley products is always a wake up. I'm used to large sealed subs, and the Danleys reveal details in the bass that I have never heard. It is always nice to get to hang out with others that share this disease, I mean passion.

Really? You went back to front placement? My inclination is that the front placement will always provide the most natural bass. Just out of curiosity, did you ever try standing them up and having them aim lenthwise out from the front wall towards the listening position? (I know this is ugly and won't be permanent, but I'm curious if their are any noticeable sound differences.) Are you leaning towards flush mounting them?

Yes, all your good work was for naught.

The stacked or flat front positions are not acceptable even to my very flexible aesthetic sense. I’m sure it would sound very good and perhaps a bit more tactile but after re-locating them to the front and re-playing the Dark Knight scenes we watched, the bass was very impressive. I could go on about it but you really need to come back and hear the front location bass for yourself. I will say that if you liked Peter’s DTS20, I think you will like the THSPUD's in the front placement a lot.

The question of flush mounting ties into my video issues. At this point I am leaning toward a false AT wall as that would provide me the most flexibility … plus I’m tired of sheetrock dust.

Thanks again for your help yesterday.

HToM

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post #299 of 433 Old 01-20-2009, 01:51 PM
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hey did u get chance to try putting the ports in the corners (left sub turned 90 degree CW and right sub 90 degree CCW) from the pic above?
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post #300 of 433 Old 01-20-2009, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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hey did u get chance to try putting the ports in the corners (left sub turned 90 degree CW and right sub 90 degree CCW) from the pic above?

No and that is a very good point. I'll give it a try.

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