Warning: Paradigm PDR 10 v.4 made in CHINA! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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What a bummer!
I picked a Paradigm PDR 10 sub yesterday. I read very good reviews about them and I do not trust ordering online if I do not have the chance of easy returns like in a brick and mortar storefront.

As generally acknowledged, Paradigm is a proudly Canadian company. Who buys their stuff think they are also supporting Canadian products.

So my purpose is to issue a warning here: this is not to attest the quality has been compromised (as a matter of fact I have no way to say, as I cannot compared to a canadian-made unit), but the box of my newly purchased sub PDR 10 v.4 clearly states "Made in China". So just be aware that you are not buying a Canadian-made piece of electronics if you decide to do so.

So how does it sound? Well, I have been immediately underwhelmed. I read good things such as "non-boomy", "warm", "great for Jazz" and my first impression did not confirm any of these. I actually find it very boomy non matter where I place it. Definitely not an upgrade from my Polk SW-10.

It is going back tomorrow. I might give a chance to a v.3 demo I saw in the store. Or opt for a Klipsch instead. Klipsch are also made in China but that is a known fact.

So after Athena and Energy, here you go another canadian manufacturer who thought their brand equity allows them to outsource wherever they want.... and without revising downwards the prices!

ps. I wonder if the very same applies to the newest Atom Monitor v.6
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post #2 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 03:38 PM
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Where did you read great reviews? I have installed plenty of the v.3 10" and 12" versions and they have never been great in my opinion.

Step up to the Paradigm DSP series if you want something worth your time.

I do own the Atom Monitor v.6 and they are fantastic. Not quite up to the Studio 20's I have for HT, but terrific for being hooked up to the computer. Bass response is fine at higher levels, but for low level listening I would add a sub. PDR-10 maybe?

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post #3 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanbrain View Post

Where did you read great reviews?

Here:

http://www.epinions.com/reviews/pr-S...bwoofer_PDR_10

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/parad...5_2741crx.aspx
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post #4 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 04:34 PM
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Paradigm makes some good speakers like their Studio, but I've never really heard good things about their subs until you get to the high end ones, especially the PDR series which are completely underwhelming.

Also the reviews at audioreview are pretty much useless IMO.

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post #5 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 06:43 PM
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Thanks for the info. I have a PDR-10 v.3 and have been very happy with it. Paired with my Monitor 7s, it did a great job in my main system. When it was time to upgrade my system I looked at the PDR-12 but ultimately went with the BIC VK-12. The feedback on BIC subwoofers has been great and the price was right (~$215 shipped).
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post #6 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 07:01 PM
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Welcome to the year 2008 where most subs are made in China. All the subs you see at your local electronics store is made in China.
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post #7 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 07:25 PM
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I started a thread a while back asking about Paradigm subs, and the only good things people had to say were about the DSP series. If I remember right, the 3400 (the biggest one) in particular. A couple of people specifically mentioned the PDR's as being disappointing. Here's the link to the thread if you want to read any of it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1070828

Steve

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post #8 of 22 Old 10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
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Don't waste your time with B and M stores and buy ID.....Just My Ipinion My Tower is Tight and VERY strong with scary low-end fr......

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post #9 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 08:09 AM
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Globalization in economics increases every country's economic surplus. You are actually doing Canada a favor by buying Chinese goods, by allowing Canada to specialize in production that it is good at.

The idea that consumers and laborers are hurt by free trade is a conspiracy propagated by corporations who wish to dupe the common people into forcing the government to restrict trade. The only ones who are hurt by free trade is those corporations. Of course, if the government just kept itself out of economics entirely, then the corporations would have no incentives to dupe people.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

Globalization in economics increases every country's economic surplus. You are actually doing Canada a favor by buying Chinese goods, by allowing Canada to specialize in production that it is good at.


I do not get this statement.
Speakers production is something Canada proved to be good at: Paradigm earned stellar reputation for quality until now. Whether it will be able to keep it as such is all to be seen. Will it stay a near high-end brand or just another manufacturer to sell their products in large chains?

Athena is another Canadian company which earned great reputation by manufacturing its product in Ontario, but the newest chinese production is not up to par with the previous one. I bet brand equity will be gone in a year or two and it will become just another manufacturer.
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post #11 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:07 AM
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Have a look at Sonic Boom Audio, they are the Canadian distributor for SVS subs, none of the Name brand subs can touch the ID sub companies for SQ or build quality for the price. If you insist on buying from Canadian firms then its your loss.

Yes, Im Canadian but value my hard earned dollar more than supporting companies that build sub par over priced gear.
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post #12 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey1 View Post

Have a look at Sonic Boom Audio, they are the Canadian distributor for SVS subs, none of the Name brand subs can touch the ID sub companies for SQ or build quality for the price. If you insist on buying from Canadian firms then its your loss.

Yes, Im Canadian but value my hard earned dollar more than supporting companies that build sub par over priced gear.

sub par < par sub

I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.
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post #13 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fanbrain View Post

sub par < par sub

LOL, no pun intended.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by playdirty714 View Post

welcome to the year 2008 where most subs are made in china. All the subs you see at your local electronics store is made in china.

+1

Cacimar Hernandez
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post #15 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey1 View Post

Have a look at Sonic Boom Audio, they are the Canadian distributor for SVS subs, none of the Name brand subs can touch the ID sub companies for SQ or build quality for the price. If you insist on buying from Canadian firms then its your loss.

Yes, Im Canadian but value my hard earned dollar more than supporting companies that build sub par over priced gear.

No, I am not stuck with a "buying Canadian" obsession.
I just thought I was buying Canadian with a Paradigm purchase. My bad and I wanted to issue a warning for others who might be thinking the same, that was the main point when I started this thread.

I am not against buying chinese products, I just want to be aware of that when I make my choice. It would be really helpful to know if considering a newer version of a highly regarded product: perhaps the newest version is not an improvement in quality, rather in the bottom line of the manufacturer.

I was planning to test the Paradigm Atom monitors to possibly replace my front Athena AS-B1: I see the current version is 6, if I will indeed go for them (perhaps tomorrow when I will be returning the PDR-10 sub) I'll make sure to check the carton box before taking out my credit card...
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post #16 of 22 Old 10-29-2008, 10:50 AM
 
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I have two Cadence car audio amplifiers that states "Proudly Designed & Engineered in the U.S.A" then on the bottom it has a "Made In China" sticker.

Works pretty good though.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-04-2009, 09:53 PM
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Let's be sure that all paradigm PDR subs are made in China and that he did not get a counterfeit paradigm subwoofer.

But if it is true and Paradigm is making stuff in china now then be wary of future Paradigm products on the low end. One of the strengths they had was that even the cheapest product the sold was produced in their own factories. When other companies like Klipsch went from dealer exclusives to big box retailers and/or started out sourcing their production, it also coincided with a point where those particular product lines started to decline and the cancer spread across the board. And with prices escallating every year out of range of many budgets, Paradigm is starting to become only a rich man's speaker and not a budget audiophile's dream. Perhaps it's getting close to the time when we need to start searching other places for high end speakers at low-fi prices.

These could be some of the first signs that Paradigm is becoming a victim of it's own success. McDonalds Restaurants attrubutes their success to Ray Crock and he once said "When you Ripen, You Rot" and Paradigm's fruit may be starting to stink.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-04-2009, 10:05 PM
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You know you can also buy american cars made in mexico and japanese cars made in america.

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post #19 of 22 Old 01-04-2009, 10:08 PM
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I love paradigm, and I hope this doesn't transfer into their reference line.

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post #20 of 22 Old 01-04-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

Globalization in economics increases every country's economic surplus. You are actually doing Canada a favor by buying Chinese goods, by allowing Canada to specialize in production that it is good at.

The idea that consumers and laborers are hurt by free trade is a conspiracy propagated by corporations who wish to dupe the common people into forcing the government to restrict trade. The only ones who are hurt by free trade is those corporations. Of course, if the government just kept itself out of economics entirely, then the corporations would have no incentives to dupe people.

That is really an over simplification of the Theory of Comparative Advantage, with a nice touch of paranoia thrown in for taste.

As for Paradigm, I thought that most of their products had the cabinets made in China but the drivers, electronics, etc were still done in house? Can anyone confirm where the drivers in the subs are made? A small point to be sure, mainly a curiosity.

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post #21 of 22 Old 01-05-2009, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

+1

Stay away from big box stores if you want to buy speakers that are not made in China.
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-05-2009, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

Globalization in economics increases every country's economic surplus. You are actually doing Canada a favor by buying Chinese goods, by allowing Canada to specialize in production that it is good at.

Sounds nice in theory, but it doesn't work that way in reality as long as there are national borders being enforced. Trade is not free if labor is not as free to move around as the products of their labor.

When something is produced more cheaply in another country due to most of their citizens being captives within the country's borders (due to their government not letting them leave, and/or other countries not allowing them to immigrate at will), that can decrease one or both country's surplus, with only a select few extracting wealth from it.

For example, we could make corn from Iowa cheaper by passing a law that prevents Iowans from moving to other states. Their wages would get pushed down because they can't leave the state for better-paying jobs. The end result is that corn becomes cheaper for us, but placing that sort of restriction on labor movement is not a net gain for Iowa and other states. Iowans would have to live with lower wages, jobs would be lost in other states that can't compete with Iowa's artificially-depressed wages, and other states would lose the potential production of Iowans who want to move where they can do something more suitable for their skills, like being an engineer in Silicon Valley or an executive in New York.

However, when something is produced cheaper elsewhere as a result of the other place being more efficient at it, or the workers voluntarily accepting lower wages for personal reasons, that is a true comparative advantage that benefits both sides.
Quote:


The idea that consumers and laborers are hurt by free trade is a conspiracy propagated by corporations who wish to dupe the common people into forcing the government to restrict trade.

Consumers and laborers are not hurt by free trade; they are hurt by the type of business that currently masquerades as free trade. Producing something cheaper in Puerto Rico to ship to the US is true free trade. Producing something in China to send to the US is not. The latter usually results in a decline in quality, because the location of production was not chosen based on efficiency, it was chosen based on artificially depressed labor costs (note that China not only has exit controls from the country, they also have internal controls that restrict people from migrating within the country).
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