Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1378 Old 07-01-2009, 05:59 PM
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That Shiznit, is the shiznit!

I too am curious as to what your impressions are. Interesting... the enclosure is not much different, if at all, than my Sig Servo. Looks like they put a new amp and driver in the same box.

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post #92 of 1378 Old 07-01-2009, 11:02 PM
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shiznit,

Looks great! Can't wait for some in depth impressions. Have fun...

Btw, my wife just gave me the ok to pick up a PBK-1...
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post #93 of 1378 Old 07-26-2009, 08:12 PM
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Here's a review from Secrets of the SUB25

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...it-pbk-1-.html

It seems like an excellent sounding sub, but it's not as loud as I thought it would be.
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post #94 of 1378 Old 07-26-2009, 08:30 PM
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I'll bet it's an excellent sounding sub and it certainly looks beautiful, but when push comes to shove, it's still only a single 15" driver in a not-so-big sealed box. That's not the recipe for high output.
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post #95 of 1378 Old 07-27-2009, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Here's a review from Secrets of the SUB25

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...it-pbk-1-.html

It seems like an excellent sounding sub, but it's not as loud as I thought it would be.

"Paradigm recommends that to achieve maximum performance the Sub 25 should be connected to a 240-volt line, or if a U.S. standard 120 volt line is used that the sub have its own dedicated 20-amp circuit. Unfortunately, my home has neither of those features, so the best I could do was connect it to a 15-amp circuit and keep all the other electrical devices on that circuit (except lighting) turned off."

Mine is also still connected to a 15 amp 120V line. I do not find the output lacking at all, but I do look forward to running a dedicated 240V line to see what the SUB 25 can really do. I did calibrate my SUB 25 with the PBK-1 kit and what a huge difference that made in my room. I had a pretty big peak at 20Hz and a large null at 80Hz and a series of other peaks and nulls that were corrected by the PBK. I am quite astonished by the sound and have been marveling at how movies sound with correct bass reproduction. So far so good!
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post #96 of 1378 Old 07-27-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

"Paradigm recommends that to achieve maximum performance the Sub 25 should be connected to a 240-volt line, or if a U.S. standard 120 volt line is used that the sub have its own dedicated 20-amp circuit. Unfortunately, my home has neither of those features, so the best I could do was connect it to a 15-amp circuit and keep all the other electrical devices on that circuit (except lighting) turned off."

Mine is also still connected to a 15 amp 120V line. I do not find the output lacking at all, but I do look forward to running a dedicated 240V line to see what the SUB 25 can really do. I did calibrate my SUB 25 with the PBK-1 kit and what a huge difference that made in my room. I had a pretty big peak at 20Hz and a large null at 80Hz and a series of other peaks and nulls that were corrected by the PBK. I am quite astonished by the sound and have been marveling at how movies sound with correct bass reproduction. So far so good!

That is a very glowing review right there... Good stuff!

Shiznit,

Glad the Sub 25 is working out for you so far. I got my new PBK-1 in the loop with my Sub 12 this past weekend and the results are very good. I had a large null at ~100Hz which was totally removed, and big peak at ~20Hz which was only partially removed. All in all, very decent results. Other than those two areas, my response is very smooth and flat throughout. I am still wrestling with the idea of using my 3808's Audyssey MultEQ XT in conjunction with the PBK-1. I love what Audyssey does for my system, but I'm not sold on the idea of two sub eq's within the loop. I'm running with both eq's engaged right now and it sounds very good, although it seems like I may be losing a little of the slam I had previously achieved with only MultEQ XT. I'm currently scouring the Audyssey thread to try and find a way of running Audyssey without applying corrections to the sub. Are you running Audyssey MultEQ XT by chance???

Anyway, keep us updated...
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post #97 of 1378 Old 07-31-2009, 10:32 AM
 
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I've always believed that room acoustics are the ultimate determining factor when it comes to sound quality. I still do. Be that as it may, I heard the sub25 in a dedicated room, with zero acoustic treatment whatsoever, in a room corner.

My thoughts ? The sound I heard in that untreated room was better than in my treated room with bass traps. I have 4 tri-traps, stacked from floor to ceiling. So even with that amount of bass trapping, the Paradigm basically smoked my set up in terms of articulation and overall 'tightness'. Believe me, 4 GIK tri-traps will improve the bass definition and clarity by large amount.

There was no equalization at all when I heard the sub. It was just plonked into a corner and the bass was superior to my treated set up with a MFW-15. I'm not talking about sheer air moving ability or deep bass extension. It most likely would beat my single MFW-15 in those areas too, but the areas in which the sub excelled was in overall tightness and articulation; you could hear each bass note decay quickly with almost no overhang at all. It sounded like the room had been covered with bass traps in all corners. I think that's a serious compliment.

Now I know my sub is only a fraction of the cost and shouldn't really be compared, but the bass traps I've added to my set up has really improved the definition and articulation. Before it sounded muddy and 'slow'. So although I should expect more from a far more costly sub, I assumed that my set up would or should sound better. I mean, it's almost like the Paradigm sub didn't need any acoustic treatment. The bass was tight, tight, tight.

I can only imagine what it would sound like in a properly treated room. This also is no exaggeration on my part. I mean, we're talking about a ported sub vs a sealed sub. But the results were much better. All this tells me is that perhaps the MFW-15 was boomy to begin with regardless of the rooms acoustics. Especially when the Paradigm sub25 sounded crisper, cleaner and more articulate without any bass trapping in a relatively small room.

Regards,
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post #98 of 1378 Old 07-31-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Here's a review from Secrets of the SUB25

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...it-pbk-1-.html

It seems like an excellent sounding sub, but it's not as loud as I thought it would be.

As far as I can tell, this review did not list maximum output capability from the subwoofer in the 25-63Hz region, only maximum output @ 20Hz. I would suspect that maximum output capability in the 25-63Hz region is extremely good with this subwoofer...

I'm really surprised that more people are not talking about this subwoofer. It seems very impressive, especially considering the combination of very deep bass extension and very good output capability in a relatively compact enclosure. The MSRP is not much different than the F113 too.

Pete - Hsu Research
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post #99 of 1378 Old 07-31-2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

I've always believed that room acoustics are the ultimate determining factor when it comes to sound quality. I still do. Be that as it may, I heard the sub25 in a dedicated room, with zero acoustic treatment whatsoever, in a room corner.

My thoughts ? The sound I heard in that untreated room was better than in my treated room with bass traps. I have 4 tri-traps, stacked from floor to ceiling. So even with that amount of bass trapping, the Paradigm basically smoked my set up in terms of articulation and overall 'tightness'. Believe me, 4 GIK tri-traps will improve the bass definition and clarity by large amount.

There was no equalization at all when I heard the sub. It was just plonked into a corner and the bass was superior to my treated set up with a MFW-15. I'm not talking about sheer air moving ability or deep bass extension. It most likely would beat my single MFW-15 in those areas too, but the areas in which the sub excelled was in overall tightness and articulation; you could hear each bass note decay quickly with almost no overhang at all. It sounded like the room had been covered with bass traps in all corners. I think that's a serious compliment.

Now I know my sub is only a fraction of the cost and shouldn't really be compared, but the bass traps I've added to my set up has really improved the definition and articulation. Before it sounded muddy and 'slow'. So although I should expect more from a far more costly sub, I assumed that my set up would or should sound better. I mean, it's almost like the Paradigm sub didn't need any acoustic treatment. The bass was tight, tight, tight.

I can only imagine what it would sound like in a properly treated room. This also is no exaggeration on my part. I mean, we're talking about a ported sub vs a sealed sub. But the results were much better. All this tells me is that perhaps the MFW-15 was boomy to begin with regardless of the rooms acoustics. Especially when the Paradigm sub25 sounded crisper, cleaner and more articulate without any bass trapping in a relatively small room.

Regards,

Your impressions of the Sub 25 sound very similar to my own impressions of my Sub 12 the first time I heard it. The sound quality is FANTASTIC! This new Reference line of sealed subs from Paradigm is the REAL DEAL, and has really opened my eyes to the world of sealed enclosures.

Btw, I'm currently running the GIK Tri-traps in my 12x11x7.5 room. Great product...
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post #100 of 1378 Old 08-02-2009, 09:46 AM
 
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I just sold my servo 15 v1 and am looking for an upgrade...I am surprised that there are not more reviews of the sub25 yet?
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post #101 of 1378 Old 08-13-2009, 10:20 AM
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What do you guys think of running this sub with 2 Servo-15s? I use the Lexicon MC-12 which supports 3 subwoofers. Currently I have the MC-12 setup to send all LFE info to both subs while the lower frequencies of the right speakers go to the right sub and left speakers to left sub. The center goes to both. I always wanted to use a 3rd sub to only handle LFE signals and this one does seem like a good one

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post #102 of 1378 Old 08-13-2009, 10:34 AM
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I think it would be fine running with a pair of Servo-15's. There are probably more similarities than differences.
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post #103 of 1378 Old 08-15-2009, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for the response

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post #104 of 1378 Old 08-18-2009, 10:21 AM
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More info please this sub sounds good is shiznit the only one that has purchased one of these bad boys?

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post #105 of 1378 Old 08-27-2009, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

I do not find the output lacking at all, but I do look forward to running a dedicated 240V line to see what the SUB 25 can really do.


Did you get a chance to install a dedicated 240V circuit ?
If so, how does the sound compare to the 120V circuit?
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post #106 of 1378 Old 08-27-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Did you get a chance to install a dedicated 240V circuit ?
If so, how does the sound compare to the 120V circuit?

How would you go about doing that?

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post #107 of 1378 Old 08-27-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

How would you go about doing that?

Kenshin-san, I'm not sure where you live but in the USA it's common to have both 120VAC and 240VAC available in your home. Many of the larger appliances such as the range, oven and air conditioner run on 240VAC so it's just a matter of having an electrician run a 240VAC circuit.


Brian
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post #108 of 1378 Old 08-28-2009, 07:09 AM
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The finish is really nice.
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post #109 of 1378 Old 08-28-2009, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Did you get a chance to install a dedicated 240V circuit ?
If so, how does the sound compare to the 120V circuit?

Not yet, but I was thinking about this today and I plan to get it done real soon, hopefully next week.

In the meantime I have been immensely enjoying my Signature Sub 25 but I expect the bass will have more impact and be even tighter when I get 240V running to it.
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post #110 of 1378 Old 08-28-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptorsys View Post

Kenshin-san, I'm not sure where you live but in the USA it's common to have both 120VAC and 240VAC available in your home. Many of the larger appliances such as the range, oven and air conditioner run on 240VAC so it's just a matter of having an electrician run a 240VAC circuit.


Brian

Thanks man i will check out where my stove is plugged in just in case i go with the sub 25

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post #111 of 1378 Old 08-28-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

Not yet, but I was thinking about this today and I plan to get it done real soon, hopefully next week.

In the meantime I have been immensely enjoying my Signature Sub 25 but I expect the bass will have more impact and be even tighter when I get 240V running to it.



Hey Shiznit,

May i ask why you did not go with a submersive? Also how good is the sub 25, i have read thw 2 reviews online an it looks really good. They never tried the 240v i can only imagine how that would sound.

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post #112 of 1378 Old 08-28-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

In the meantime I have been immensely enjoying my Signature Sub 25 but I expect the bass will have more impact and be even tighter when I get 240V running to it.

Must be a great feeling knowing the sub will sound even better than it already is

keep us posted....

Thanks!
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post #113 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 10:25 AM
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nice reviews
http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/09...woofer-review/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwo...it-pbk-1-.html

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...igm_sub_25.htm

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...dspeakers.html

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post #114 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 11:04 AM
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If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is the older Signature Servo reviewed in that Sound and Vision article, not the more recent Sub 25.
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post #115 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

Hey Shiznit,

May i ask why you did not go with a submersive? Also how good is the sub 25, i have read thw 2 reviews online an it looks really good. They never tried the 240v i can only imagine how that would sound.

Um....just louder!

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post #116 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Did you get a chance to install a dedicated 240V circuit ?
If so, how does the sound compare to the 120V circuit?

What do you think happens with more volts are available?

Unless your clipping, you will just have more Watts available. When playing at 100dB you will have the EXACT SAME sound as you did when you had 120V.

If you never even hit something like 120dB during peaks, its a moot point if yo have 120V or 240V wiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

Not yet, but I was thinking about this today and I plan to get it done real soon, hopefully next week.

In the meantime I have been immensely enjoying my Signature Sub 25 but I expect the bass will have more impact and be even tighter when I get 240V running to it.

Do you really, really think so?....could you post why you think that? Any links to proof that 240V vs 120V creates "tighter" bass.....I thought not

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post #117 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

What do you think happens with more volts are available?

Unless your clipping, you will just have more Watts available. When playing at 100dB you will have the EXACT SAME sound as you did when you had 120V.

If you never even hit something like 120dB during peaks, its a moot point if yo have 120V or 240V wiring.



Do you really, really think so?....could you post why you think that? Any links to proof that 240V vs 120V creates "tighter" bass.....I thought not

One might argue that if the higher voltage provides greater amp headroom, the bass might sound "tighter" if it was compared with using the lower voltage if the amp was nearing it's maximum clean output at that lower voltage.
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post #118 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

One might argue that if the higher voltage provides greater amp headroom, the bass might sound "tighter" if it was compared with using the lower voltage if the amp was nearing it's maximum clean output at that lower voltage.

Some validation with objective data would be very interesting in that regard. I think penngray has it right otherwise in my opinon. But I am only familiar with voltage effects on motors and other demand devices such as heaters and generators. If you running the sub, once it's on it's on. On the other hand if you are going to crank up the power to the max then it may be up to a task designs for less power may not be up to.
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post #119 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

One might argue that if the higher voltage provides greater amp headroom, the bass might sound "tighter" if it was compared with using the lower voltage if the amp was nearing it's maximum clean output at that lower voltage.

I won't argue the clipping but do you realize how much it takes to clip that sub?

But my point is a simple one, if they are not driving that sub to insane SPL levels then 240V is a worthless upgrade. I can garuntee someone will post that their bass was tighter even at 80dB levels

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post #120 of 1378 Old 08-31-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I won't argue the clipping but do you realize how much it takes to clip that sub?

But my point is a simple one, if they are not driving that sub to insane SPL levels then 240V is a worthless upgrade. I can garuntee someone will post that their bass was tighter even at 80dB levels

That would be just a placebo effect.
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