Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25 - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25
ronaldjoe's Avatar ronaldjoe 07:08 PM 12-24-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoshozx View Post

Did Paradigm raise the MSRP on the sub 25? The my local dealer is telling me MSRP is now $4999.

I believe that's the price for piano black finish. The price was revised some time ago.

kyoshozx's Avatar kyoshozx 07:12 PM 12-24-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldjoe View Post

I believe that's the price for piano black finish. The price was revised some time ago.

Ok, thanks.

Does anyone know what's a good street price for the sub 25?
gusser17's Avatar gusser17 06:35 PM 12-27-2011
Hey Folks,
I'm looking to add a 2nd sub to my current system, I'm debating a Sub 15 vs a Sub 25. I'd be interested in the opinions of this group.
My main theatre current setup:
Studio 100's
CC 690
Studio 10's for surrounds
all are v.5
Sub 12
Denon 4311
Emotiva XPA-5
Epson 8700 UB
Elite Screen 92" floor rising screen
Oppo BDP-95
Apple TV v.1 via Cambridge DAC Magic
Rega P3-24 with NAD preamp
PS3

The room is 22x18x8 with angled walls, there is a dormer which makes the left side of the room 22x25x8 for 11 feet. The first reflections are treated with acoustic panels, no bass traps yet but they're coming. Use is 70% music (SACD,CD,vinyl and lots of concert BR and DVDs) 30% movies.

My questions are 1) Have the performance issues with the 25 namely "bottoming out" or rattling that were discussed here some time ago resolved or are they ongoing. Having never heard the 25 I won't know what I'm missing if I get the 15 but I will be disappointed if I get it and it makes unwanted noises. I actually love the 12 but i'm sure the bigger subs will be so much better.
2) What are people's thoughts on pairing the 12 with a 25. Some of the literature on the subject suggests not pairing subs with very different capabilities but I wonder if the newer calibration systems like the PBK negate that issue. My thought is that the 25 could provide the low end extension while the 12 could help to pressurize the room and smooth the frequency response. I'd be interested in knowing the opinions or experiences of others.
thanks
jayray's Avatar jayray 06:48 PM 12-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by gusser17 View Post

Hey Folks,
I'm looking to add a 2nd sub to my current system, I'm debating a Sub 15 vs a Sub 25. I'd be interested in the opinions of this group.
My main theatre current setup:
Studio 100's
CC 690
Studio 10's for surrounds
all are v.5
Sub 12
Denon 4311
Emotiva XPA-5
Epson 8700 UB
Elite Screen 92" floor rising screen
Oppo BDP-95
Apple TV v.1 via Cambridge DAC Magic
Rega P3-24 with NAD preamp
PS3

The room is 22x18x8 with angled walls, there is a dormer which makes the left side of the room 22x25x8 for 11 feet. The first reflections are treated with acoustic panels, no bass traps yet but they're coming. Use is 70% music (SACD,CD,vinyl and lots of concert BR and DVDs) 30% movies.

My questions are 1) Have the performance issues with the 25 namely "bottoming out" or rattling that were discussed here some time ago resolved or are they ongoing. Having never heard the 25 I won't know what I'm missing if I get the 15 but I will be disappointed if I get it and it makes unwanted noises. I actually love the 12 but i'm sure the bigger subs will be so much better.
2) What are people's thoughts on pairing the 12 with a 25. Some of the literature on the subject suggests not pairing subs with very different capabilities but I wonder if the newer calibration systems like the PBK negate that issue. My thought is that the 25 could provide the low end extension while the 12 could help to pressurize the room and smooth the frequency response. I'd be interested in knowing the opinions or experiences of others.
thanks

The "bottoming out" may be an issue for a vey small number of users. Mine performs amazingly well as do 99% of these subs.
John
Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S 07:08 PM 12-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by gusser17 View Post

Hey Folks,
I'm looking to add a 2nd sub to my current system, I'm debating a Sub 15 vs a Sub 25. I'd be interested in the opinions of this group.
My main theatre current setup:
Studio 100's
CC 690
Studio 10's for surrounds
all are v.5
Sub 12
Denon 4311
Emotiva XPA-5
Epson 8700 UB
Elite Screen 92" floor rising screen
Oppo BDP-95
Apple TV v.1 via Cambridge DAC Magic
Rega P3-24 with NAD preamp
PS3

The room is 22x18x8 with angled walls, there is a dormer which makes the left side of the room 22x25x8 for 11 feet. The first reflections are treated with acoustic panels, no bass traps yet but they're coming. Use is 70% music (SACD,CD,vinyl and lots of concert BR and DVDs) 30% movies.

My questions are 1) Have the performance issues with the 25 namely "bottoming out" or rattling that were discussed here some time ago resolved or are they ongoing. Having never heard the 25 I won't know what I'm missing if I get the 15 but I will be disappointed if I get it and it makes unwanted noises. I actually love the 12 but i'm sure the bigger subs will be so much better.
2) What are people's thoughts on pairing the 12 with a 25. Some of the literature on the subject suggests not pairing subs with very different capabilities but I wonder if the newer calibration systems like the PBK negate that issue. My thought is that the 25 could provide the low end extension while the 12 could help to pressurize the room and smooth the frequency response. I'd be interested in knowing the opinions or experiences of others.
thanks


Hello, I'm a proud owner of a Sub 25 and two Servo 15a's and I for one have never had any bottoming out issues with the Sub 25. I wouldn't reccommend having 2 different sized subs performing the same duty and if you are going for multiple subs I reccommend using the same model regardless if you use PBK, different subs will have different characteristics not to mention different output levels. In my setup I use the Sub 25 for LFE duty and the dual Servo 15a's perform the low frequency duty from all of the other speakers. Honestly, seeing as you all ready have a Sub 12 you should also be considering adding a 2nd Sub 12 or selling your Sub 12 and using 2 Sub 15's. Having 2 Sub 15's would give overall better room response than a single Sub 25. I'm not sure if the same would be true of using two Sub 12's however
House of Boom's Avatar House of Boom 11:01 PM 12-27-2011
Mine had the rattle. Changing the tune to flat as per the recommendation in this thread, fixed the issue completely. I love this thing and cant wait to get another.

I also run it with Studio 100 V5's and CC690 v5
turk 182's Avatar turk 182 03:53 AM 12-28-2011
Mine also had the bottoming out but changing to flat fixed it all. I demo`d mine in a theater room where sub was stuffed in the wall and I could`t see it. My dealer said the room had 2 sub 25`s. It sounded absolutely awesome, so I bought sub 25. Turns out it was 2 sub 12`s. I love my sub 25 it`s an absolute ass kicker, but the 2 12`s sounded really good too. If I could do it over again I would get the 12`s because 2 is always better than 1 and I`ll never be able to afford another sub 25.
jayray's Avatar jayray 07:36 AM 12-28-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by House of Boom View Post

Mine had the rattle. Changing the tune to flat as per the recommendation in this thread, fixed the issue completely. I love this thing and cant wait to get another.

I also run it with Studio 100 V5's and CC690 v5

I have the same speakers no wonder mine sounds so good
John
matjet's Avatar matjet 12:57 PM 01-02-2012
[quote=gusser17;21405429]Hey Folks,
I'm looking to add a 2nd sub to my current system, I'm debating a Sub 15 vs a Sub 25. I'd be interested in the opinions of this group.
My main theatre current setup:
Studio 100's
CC 690
Studio 10's for surrounds
all are v.5
Sub 12
Denon 4311
Emotiva XPA-5
Epson 8700 UB
Elite Screen 92" floor rising screen
Oppo BDP-95
Apple TV v.1 via Cambridge DAC Magic
Rega P3-24 with NAD preamp
PS3
The room is 22x18x8 with angled walls, there is a dormer which makes the left side of the room 22x25x8 for 11 feet. The first reflections are treated with acoustic panels, no bass traps yet but they're coming. Use is 70% music
(SACD,CD,vinyl and lots of concert BR and DVDs) 30% movies.

My questions are 1) Have the performance issues with the 25 namely "bottoming out" or rattling that were discussed here some time ago resolved or are they ongoing. Having never heard the 25 I won't know what I'm missing if I get the 15 but I will be disappointed if I get it and it makes unwanted noises. I actually love the 12 but i'm sure the bigger subs will be so much better.


I have 2 sub 25's. One developed a rattle. A new driver fixed the problem, no rattle now. If anyone is interested; To remove the old driver you will need a special screw that will unseat the driver after all screws have been removed. Paradigm will supply the 'driver removal screw'.

Sub 25 is a great sub, especially considering its relatively compact size.
Rod#S's Avatar Rod#S 06:50 PM 01-17-2012
For those of you running multiple Sub 25's, how do you do your PBK? I think I remember reading at some point in the past that the new software allows for EQing a number of separate subs in one session, is that correct? The reason I ask is I'm possibly going to be adding a 2nd and 3rd Sub 25 as early as late Spring and I was just curious how to approach the EQ.

Thanks
Armand07's Avatar Armand07 12:41 AM 01-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

For those of you running multiple Sub 25's, how do you do your PBK? I think I remember reading at some point in the past that the new software allows for EQing a number of separate subs in one session, is that correct? The reason I ask is I'm possibly going to be adding a 2nd and 3rd Sub 25 as early as late Spring and I was just curious how to approach the EQ.

Thanks

No problem, just run it on each of the subs. With the latest software I think you can run PBK on 99 subs!
kenshin-himura's Avatar kenshin-himura 07:30 PM 11-08-2012
is this new???? I have not be on the site in a long time

Paradigm USB Sub Programmer v1.36
Mr.RS4's Avatar Mr.RS4 10:57 AM 11-12-2012
How long is the stroke is on the speaker element on Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25?
From maximum to minimum?
rwheelwright's Avatar rwheelwright 09:28 AM 11-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-himura View Post

is this new???? I have not be on the site in a long time
Paradigm USB Sub Programmer v1.36

I am curious too. It is new but I am not sure what it actually does.
shiznit's Avatar shiznit 06:26 PM 11-13-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.RS4 View Post

How long is the stroke is on the speaker element on Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25?
From maximum to minimum?

Paradigm states 3 inch peak to peak travel on the driver.
dralhc's Avatar dralhc 02:58 PM 01-27-2013
I thought I would just add some feedback.

I have an early Sub 25. I have had it for just over 3 yrs. I started to notice a rattle from my sub. It may have always been there as I thought it was photos on a shelf rattling but it started to be more noticeable. I was watching the newest Batman- Dark Knight Rises when it was rattling all the time.

I took it to my very helpful importer. We put it on the test bench and it rattled at a fairly low level of output from 24hz down. It sounded like something was loose in the box but it was the driver hitting part of itself. Paradigm said it was a faulty driver and replaced it under warranty.

I'm disappointed that this high end piece of gear developed issues but at the same time I am very impressed with my local importer (thanks Paul) and Paradigms service. No questions were asked, no copies of receipts demanded, the response was just, don't worry, we will get it fixed.

I haven't had chance to reinstall it and test it yet. Paul has and he says it is all good. I will feedback if there are any further issues.
paultimm's Avatar paultimm 11:29 AM 07-17-2013
I have 2 sub25's less than 3 years old, and both bottom out now. I am using an older pioneer receiver, vsx-01txh. I watch movies at -20db, sub output set to -4, and sub25 less than half way and it clanks on every movie when low bass hits. I am sending one in now, hopefully will still be under warranty. Paradigm is very slow at fixing things, it's been 3 weeks and still no answer, just beware of that if u buy there products, very hard to get fixed. I will then send my other sub in when and if I ever get it back. My dealer thinks it is the amplifier, but had him send both the amplifier plate and subwoofer in. The woofer does have a slight crack forming around the speaker about 6 inches long. They told my dealer that they don't make those woofers anymore and would probably have to recone the woofer, price is $650, if not covered by warranty, that sucks. I think they should have the woofers in stock, it's not even that old, what kind of company is this? Has anyone had these problems like I have. I am not to happy with paradigm products at the moment. So anyone buying one of these used, just be careful and know that there are problems with these subwoofers. I hope I can get mine fixed. Please tell me if anyone has experienced these problems.
dralhc's Avatar dralhc 01:06 PM 07-17-2013
It was reported to me that the early cones had a manufacturing issue that resulted in the cone hitting some part of the support structure. The whole speaker unit was replaced and tested without issue. I think it was always there but became more noticeable.

This system is in the TV room now and we don't use it often but it seem ok now.

Good luck with yours.
whasaaaab's Avatar whasaaaab 05:23 PM 10-24-2013
Hello fellow owners,

Today while i was at work, my wife was having breakfast with my son my wife is 9mths pregnant. While they were eating they heard a loud explosion in my basement loud enough to vibrate the floors and scare the
F*** out of my wife, she thought the fernace had exploded. She went downstairs after she coalmed herself down and almost went in to labor she went down to see what the hell happend.

She checked the furnace and nothing was running but she kept here a loud pulsating throbbing noise which she than turned to my speakers but she said the sound was coming from the subwoofer. Now my entire system is off and the subwoofer is on pulsating loudly she said so she turned off my APC power conditioner which its plugged into.

The subwoofer turned off and the noise went away, HOW THE HELL did ity turn on and make such a noise? I got home and check my system out, the subwoofer now does not sound the same it has a muddled bass sound and shakes a lot more has anyone had this happend??????????

I called PAradigm and left a message and will be calling them tomorrow to sort this out, not a happy customer right about now. Worse thing i am hosting a horror movie fest this saturday now i do not have a good working subwoofer mad.gif
MemX's Avatar MemX 06:03 AM 10-25-2013
Are you saying that the subwoofer turned off after you turned the power conditioner off?

If it's the power conditioner doing strange things then I don't think Paradigm would be at fault!


Weird, though, one of those things you can only speculate on because no-one saw what caused it at the time!
paultimm's Avatar paultimm 09:16 PM 10-25-2013
The same thing happened to me. I went on vacation for 2 weeks and when I came home the subwoofer was making very loud pulsating sound, I almost died. It is connected to a monster power center, so I am assuming that it got some sort of power surge. I immediately unplugged the power center and waited, praying everything was alright, and thank god it was. I don't hear any difference in sound, but there is no way in hell I am going to leave these powered on when I go on vacation again! I have two sub25 and only one was making that sound, I sure hope it happened that day, but I will never know for sure.
whasaaaab's Avatar whasaaaab 11:19 AM 10-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

The same thing happened to me. I went on vacation for 2 weeks and when I came home the subwoofer was making very loud pulsating sound, I almost died. It is connected to a monster power center, so I am assuming that it got some sort of power surge. I immediately unplugged the power center and waited, praying everything was alright, and thank god it was. I don't hear any difference in sound, but there is no way in hell I am going to leave these powered on when I go on vacation again! I have two sub25 and only one was making that sound, I sure hope it happened that day, but I will never know for sure.

Paradigm wants me to bring my sb25 to them now, mine does sound different thou, the bass is very muddled. They told me to unplug the subwoofer and cut the power, my APC power conditioner is supposed to stop all power surges

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H15BLK

Not sure if the below should have helped with that either

Power Factor Correction (PFC). PFC shapes the current so it is sinusoidal and continuous in time, allowing maximum power (95%) to be drawn and with far less noise on the line. To compare: A unit without PFC draws only 60 to 70% of the available power since the line current is switched on and off by the input rectifier (a noise-inducing process in itself!) at twice the frequency. Current flows at the peak of the line voltage only, effectively choking the line. PFC prevents over-heating/tripping of the circuit breakers. Add to this the highly efficient Ultra-Class-D™ design ensuring maximum output and the SUB 25’s amplifier becomes an input / output powerhouse that is simply unbeatable.

So i do not know how it turned on.
whasaaaab's Avatar whasaaaab 11:28 AM 10-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

Are you saying that the subwoofer turned off after you turned the power conditioner off?

If it's the power conditioner doing strange things then I don't think Paradigm would be at fault!


Weird, though, one of those things you can only speculate on because no-one saw what caused it at the time!

My wife turned off the power conditioner, since she did not know how to turn off the subwoofer. The subwoofer turned on all by itself
rwheelwright's Avatar rwheelwright 07:24 AM 11-20-2013
Any updates to your problems?
paultimm's Avatar paultimm 10:05 AM 11-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

Any updates to your problems?

I have since bought a denon x4000, and after calibrating, using xt32, the bottoming out almost went away. On some very low bass scenes, like the one in world war z, it still bottoms out during the Granade scene. My second sub 25 that I have, I don't have that problem. I have also bought a seaton submersive f2. Now that sub never bottomed out, no matter what throw at it. So what I am saying is that a $2500 sub will out perform a $5000 sub. But I am probably going to keep both of them, since they look so beautiful set up front in my system. I will get the slave seaton to fill in the back, in a few weeks.
cheardone's Avatar cheardone 11:39 AM 02-07-2014
Hi, I know it's been awhile, but can you tell me how you removed the grill. Thanks.
leeshanok's Avatar leeshanok 05:35 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheardone View Post

Hi, I know it's been awhile, but can you tell me how you removed the grill. Thanks.

On the side opening between the grill and the sub, deep inside you will notice a phillips screw (use a flashlight). Get a phillips screwdriver to screw it. There are two screws on each side.
whasaaaab's Avatar whasaaaab 06:35 PM 02-20-2014
Hello,

Paradigm looked at my sub25 and nothing was wrong they said it was in great working condition, the customer service was great and the service shop guy was great too they were all very help full with everything. i even got a brand new box for my sub.

They told me to change my subwoofer cable and try a better one than the one I was using, maybe it carried some sort of discharge i cannot remeber what he said. I have not changed the cable as yet lol as I am still waiting for it to arrive.

Anyone in the Ontario, Canada area will to separate with their sub25 :-) looking to get one more for the summer if I can find one in piano black.
Tags: Paradigm Reference Studio 20 , Paradigm
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