Premier Acoustic PA-120 - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post

I can't really tell because it's hard to hear anything because the bass rattles all the decorations on the walls when the plug is out.

You must have the volume on the sub up past 6

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post #632 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SaltwaterCat View Post

You must have the volume on the sub up past 6

I have it at 5

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post #633 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 05:05 PM
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This sub was not designed to be run with the port plugged.
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post #634 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 05:41 PM
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Looks like I need to get extra support for wall decorations since I have to remove the plug. lol

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post #635 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilivas View Post

Looks like I need to get extra support for wall decorations since I have to remove the plug. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuReA-AGa8


Albeit it's just epoxy putty which can be bought at any home depot for a fraction of the cost.
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post #636 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 08:24 PM
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I think im having a similar problem as a few others. IM running the pa120 on a 1909. I ran audessey and then changed the fronts/center to small. and 80hz.
On the back of the sub have it set to phase 0 ( sub located at front) vol to 6, and turned up to 200. Im still not getting much base, no floor shaking or walls. My HTIB sub did more. Is there something im missing in the settings or is this defective ?
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post #637 of 2113 Old 02-11-2009, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Goat View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuReA-AGa8


Albeit it's just epoxy putty which can be bought at any home depot for a fraction of the cost.

I have some of that in my garage. I bought the JB weld version from autozone.

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post #638 of 2113 Old 02-12-2009, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky42x View Post

I think im having a similar problem as a few others. IM running the pa120 on a 1909. I ran audessey and then changed the fronts/center to small. and 80hz.
On the back of the sub have it set to phase 0 ( sub located at front) vol to 6, and turned up to 200. Im still not getting much base, no floor shaking or walls. My HTIB sub did more. Is there something im missing in the settings or is this defective ?

This is strange. Try plugging in your old sub, without any modifications to audessy - to see if you get any output at all. If not, break out the manual - and see what setting audessy muxed up.
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post #639 of 2113 Old 02-12-2009, 07:55 AM
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make sure you dont have your fronts set to "large"

i did that as a test, and got almost no bass from the sub.

changed it back to "small" and everything is good now.

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post #640 of 2113 Old 02-12-2009, 09:28 AM
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spooky - go to MANUAL SETUP > SPEAKER SETUP > CHANNEL LEVEL and run the built-in test tones of the receiver. When it hits the SW channel do you hear it rumbling? If it doesn't rumble good with the test tone, something is wrong (either a setting somewhere or potentially worst-case a bad subwoofer).

Also, while you are in there, what has Audyssey set the subwoofer channel level to?

BTW for everyone -- all of the recommendations for "set your volume to 6" or whatever cannot be applied universally. Everyone has a different room, different speakers, etc. and you will need to find your personal, ideal volume level. It's a good starting point but everyone should be tweaking it to get a smooth blend.

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post #641 of 2113 Old 02-12-2009, 08:17 PM
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antwon - audessey set the fronts to large, but i had changed it manually to smalls along with the center.

batpig- with the test tone it does rumble, just not sure if its as much as it should be. Ill check what the channel level is set to, and ill play with the volume on the back.

THanks all
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post #642 of 2113 Old 02-12-2009, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky42x View Post

I think im having a similar problem as a few others. IM running the pa120 on a 1909. I ran audessey and then changed the fronts/center to small. and 80hz.
On the back of the sub have it set to phase 0 ( sub located at front) vol to 6, and turned up to 200. Im still not getting much base, no floor shaking or walls. My HTIB sub did more. Is there something im missing in the settings or is this defective ?

you might need to set your subs level settings manually on your receiver or turn up the volume on the sub or even both. I would not recommend turning it over 8 due to possible distortion from the amp. The recommended 6 setting is a universal one in audio. Your equipment "should" be loud at a volume of 2/3. This is of course just a recommended setting so you can change things if you like. I personally had to set my receiver pretty high along with the sub volume on about 7 to get the sound that I felt was expected from this sub. I also had to move my sub a few times. Once you get all of this set up, assuming your sub is not defective, i guarantee that this sub will shake things in your house.

BTW what size is the room that you have this sub in? that can also make a difference. hope this helps a bit.

Edit: Oops I just responded as soon as I saw your post and didn't read the rest of the posts. I guess all that I have said has already been said. Sorry for the repeat of info.
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post #643 of 2113 Old 02-13-2009, 05:16 PM
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Hi I just got a Pioneer VSX-01txh and the PA-120

I'm not getting the same effect as others have. I can hear things in the room shaking but the sub itself is not hitting hard (as in I cant feel it as much as the subs I have in my car). I know the car is a smaller space but I have the volume set to 7 with 80khz crossover and +10db from the receiver. I also have the size of the speakers set to small.

At the moment I only have one speaker connected to it. What could be the problem? How would I know if I have a defective unit?

Anyone else have the same problems?
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post #644 of 2113 Old 02-13-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Also, while you are in there, what has Audyssey set the subwoofer channel level to?
.

I have the Sub set to channel +8, The other speakers are FR,FL,C=+12 and RL,RR=+6.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousMushrm View Post

BTW what size is the room that you have this sub in? that can also make a difference. hope this helps a bit.

The room listening area is approx 16X11 and the room 25X11.


I also ran the channel level test that batpig suggested and the sub did make noise, I could see the woofer moving.

Still not sure why the sub doesnt really come to life much during regular listening?
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post #645 of 2113 Old 02-13-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0wNb0y View Post

Hi I just got a Pioneer VSX-01txh and the PA-120

I'm not getting the same effect as others have. I can hear things in the room shaking but the sub itself is not hitting hard (as in I cant feel it as much as the subs I have in my car). I know the car is a smaller space but I have the volume set to 7 with 80khz crossover and +10db from the receiver. I also have the size of the speakers set to small.

At the moment I only have one speaker connected to it. What could be the problem? How would I know if I have a defective unit?

Anyone else have the same problems?

Well its called "cabin gain". A car has a much smaller enclosure to reproduce deeper and louder bass response. Is the sub positioned in a corner? What is the size of your room?

Chris
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post #646 of 2113 Old 02-13-2009, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by creemail View Post

Well its called "cabin gain". A car has a much smaller enclosure to reproduce deeper and louder bass response. Is the sub positioned in a corner? What is the size of your room?

Chris


The sub is not in a corner but I should try that tomorrow. The room right now is about 20x18. My older sub(11 year old Kenwood HTIB) produced "louder" bass but i noticed that the pa-120 has much deeper bass response and I need to turn it up louder to distinguish between it and the center speaker.

I also noticed that if I just turn off the speakers while songs are playing the sub is much louder and I can hear windows and decorations rattling.

I would like to have that same effect when songs are playing but I just can't seem to get it to work.
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post #647 of 2113 Old 02-13-2009, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky42x View Post

The room listening area is approx 16X11 and the room 25X11.

This is a room that I would consider to be not too big for this sub. Mine is similar in size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky42x View Post

I also ran the channel level test that batpig suggested and the sub did make noise, I could see the woofer moving.

Still not sure why the sub doesnt really come to life much during regular listening?

Be sure to move your sub around to different spots if you can. This can make a HUGE difference in what you here vs what you feel.

It also depends upon what you are watchin/listening to. If you have it put in LOTR any disc, or maybe fight club (there are a few scenes with a ton of bass), or perhaps u571. Not all titles have the same amount of output for the lfe channel. These are a few that have quite a bit of bass in particular scenes.

I have noticed that when i watch some movies there just isn't that much bass, or not as much as I thought. There is a decent list of movies that have ALOT of bass here -> http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm there are also "waterfall" pics there to show you excactly how much bass is being output by each scene. I would give this a try then see what you think.
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post #648 of 2113 Old 02-14-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0wNb0y View Post

The sub is not in a corner but I should try that tomorrow. The room right now is about 20x18. My older sub(11 year old Kenwood HTIB) produced "louder" bass but i noticed that the pa-120 has much deeper bass response and I need to turn it up louder to distinguish between it and the center speaker.

I also noticed that if I just turn off the speakers while songs are playing the sub is much louder and I can hear windows and decorations rattling.

I would like to have that same effect when songs are playing but I just can't seem to get it to work.


Anyone with some help? I'm at a loss here. How will I be able to tell if the item is defective or not?
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post #649 of 2113 Old 02-14-2009, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0wNb0y View Post

Anyone with some help? I'm at a loss here. How will I be able to tell if the item is defective or not?

Burn this to a DVD, and run it on your system. Do some LFE (low frequency event) frequency sweeps down to 20hz.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=742969
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post #650 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 12:01 AM
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a HT sub will not hit like a car sub, a good HT sub will be smooth and rich and fill out the low end and make the whole room have "presence". it will certainly rumble and you can feel the "thud" with big effects in movies, but it will never feel like sitting in a car with a big ass woofer or two three feet behind you resonating with you, both trapped inside the tiny space of the car. IMO it would suck if a good HT setup sounded like the garbage, thudding, over-exagerrated bass of 95% of car systems I've heard.

a proper HT sub setup should not call attention to itself, but rather integrate smoothly, not whack you like a car sub. and if that's what you are looking for, that super-visceral thud of the bass whacking you in the chest, you need more than a single 12 inch woofer trying to fill up a 20x18 room.

Now, that being said it's certainly possible you have a bad unit, there have been a few reports of that so far in this thread. But it's hard to tell from reading your posts if you have a defective sub, or if this just a preference issue and you are just used to thumping car systems and have a preference for excessive, boomin' bass.

Run those sweeps from the test disc or at least run the receiver tones and see if it can produce some actual SPL.

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post #651 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 12:35 AM
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im thinking of getting PA-120 as my first real sub but i live in australia and theres hardly any decent subs here... anyone know where they would ship this worldwide? thanks..
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post #652 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 02:09 PM
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I have just added a new center channel (Infinity PC350) and two (2) new subs (Premier Acoustics PA-120) to my existing setup and ran through the Audyssey setup again. I'm not sure of what would be th ideal thing to do.

Current Setup: 5.1

Fronts: Infinity Primus 360 x 2 (38Hz-20KHz)
Center: Infinity Primus PC350 (80Hz -20KHz)
Surrounds: Infinity Primus 250 x 2 (49Hz-20KHz)
Subs: Premier Acoustics PA-120 x 2 (sub gain set @ 5, phase @ 0 and crossover @ max (200Hz))
Onkyo TX-SR705

The question I have is this:

After I run Audyssey, it set the mains, center and surrounds to "Full Band" and sets the subs at -9db. It feels like the bass is a little lacking with this configuration but the bass feels more "spread out" for a lack of a better description. If I change the the mains, center and surrounds to 80Hz THX (small), LPF of LFE to 120Hz and move the sub level to 0db, I feel a better "thump" in movies and music but it has a tendency to sound a little "bright" when listening to music.

What is the purpose of running Audyssey if I'm going to go by most recommendations and change the "Full Band" settings to 80Hz THX (small) or to what sounds best to me? Is what sounds best to me the right setup? Is there any compromise to good bass without sounding "bright"?

Thanks in advance for any help and/or suggestions...
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post #653 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousMushrm View Post

This is a room that I would consider to be not too big for this sub. Mine is similar in size.



Be sure to move your sub around to different spots if you can. This can make a HUGE difference in what you here vs what you feel.

It also depends upon what you are watchin/listening to. If you have it put in LOTR any disc, or maybe fight club (there are a few scenes with a ton of bass), or perhaps u571. Not all titles have the same amount of output for the lfe channel. These are a few that have quite a bit of bass in particular scenes.

I have noticed that when i watch some movies there just isn't that much bass, or not as much as I thought. There is a decent list of movies that have ALOT of bass here -> http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm there are also "waterfall" pics there to show you excactly how much bass is being output by each scene. I would give this a try then see what you think.

Thanks for the link, Ill try LOTR and Fight club.
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post #654 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooky42x View Post

Thanks for the link, Ill try LOTR and Fight club.

Another really good movie to test out a sub is "Cloverfield". That is one of the most powerful LFE movies I have ever heard.

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post #655 of 2113 Old 02-15-2009, 03:26 PM
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I was starting to get dissapointed with the 120 but with everyone's help I think its working. It must of been the movies that I was watching, just didnt have the LFE tracks.

I tried the scenes in LOTR and the Helicopter crashing into the building in matrix, The bass was definitely there. It got pretty loud and best of all it didnt seem like the bass was coming from the sub, some scenes I could have swore the rear c-100's were putting out the base. Just have to play with the placement now.

Thanks everyone.
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post #656 of 2113 Old 02-16-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaliciousMushrm View Post

What is the purpose of running Audyssey if I'm going to go by most recommendations and change the "Full Band" settings to 80Hz THX (small) or to what sounds best to me? Is what sounds best to me the right setup? Is there any compromise to good bass without sounding "bright"?

Doing what sounds best to you is always the right setup.

When you change the crossover settings for your speakers you are still maintaining Audyssey's EQ settings and time corrections. Start with Audyssey, adjust your crossovers, and fiddle with placement, bass, treble, sub gain, etc. There is no crime in using Audyssey, so feel free to dump it if things sound better to you without it.

I have an Onkyo 606 which I like a lot. I wouldn't say I'm experiencing buyer's remorse, but I am second-guessing my decision. One feature that I learned about Pioneer's receivers after my Onkyo purchase is that after you use their automated setup MCACC you are free to tweak it to your heart's desire and even save multiple profiles. I'm not sure if it's too late for you to audition another receiver, but maybe that's an option. I too find my Onkyo either too bright or I'm just having a problem dialing in the bass settings to my liking. I think mostly I miss the low bass boost that my old Sony had. Whatever frequency it was boosting sounded wonderful with my Infinity SM-155's.
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post #657 of 2113 Old 02-17-2009, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCat View Post

This is all you need, works the same as the Monster Sub cable I bought for $80 a few years back at BB, wow...that still hurts

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

I am in the market for a subwoofer cable but I have several cables I am not using. I have Monster composite/audio cables and the orange digital coaxal cable. Can I use either of these for my subwoofer or do I need to just buy the cable on the link?
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post #658 of 2113 Old 02-17-2009, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecollector View Post

I am in the market for a subwoofer cable but I have several cables I am not using. I have Monster composite/audio cables and the orange digital coaxal cable. Can I use either of these for my subwoofer or do I need to just buy the cable on the link?

Any of those cables will work fine.

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post #659 of 2113 Old 02-17-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post

After I run Audyssey, it set the mains, center and surrounds to "Full Band" and sets the subs at -9db.

It's important to understand that Audyssey isn't setting any of your speakers to small vs large. Audyssey just measures and then the receiver manufacturer decides to call the speaker "full band". If you followed the Audyssey setup guide (or read the Audyssey FAQ) you will see that Audyssey specifically recommends taking them off full band and setting them to "small" (on the Onkyo that means assigning a crossover).

Quote:


If your AVR manufacturer sets your speakers to Large then all content below the crossover frequency is lost as it is not redirected to the subwoofer. Audyssey recommends changing the speaker setting to Small manually after the calibration is finished.

Changing your speakers to small allows bass to be effectively routed to your shiny new 12" subwoofer. It also allows the other speakers to play louder and cleaner (because they aren't reproducing bass that they can't handle) and lets your amp perform better because the subwoofer's amp is handling the most difficult loads.

Additionally, the MultEQ XT in your 705 has much higher resolution filters on the subwoofer channel, so letting your sub handle the bass below 80 should result in smoother and more balanced response in the system. You may prefer more "boom" overall so feel free to adjust the subwoofer channel level or better yet the bass/treble tone controls to tweak to taste.

Quote:


What is the purpose of running Audyssey if I'm going to go by most recommendations and change the "Full Band" settings to 80Hz THX (small) or to what sounds best to me?

The purpose of Audyssey is to equalize/filter your speakers to account for the acoustics of your room, so your system is providing a flat response overall and you can hear movie soundtracks as the director/mixer intended.

Once you have run Audyssey, you can then tweak things like crossovers, speaker volumes, etc. and Audyssey's EQ filters will still be operating to account for the acoustics of your room.

You should ALWAYS set the LFE LPF to 120Hz. On your setup, an 80Hz xover all around for the speakers will probably work great, although you could put the mains at 60 if you want and see how you like it.

Another recommendation, since Audyssey set your subs to -9db, is that the gain dials on your subs may be too high as Audyssey is really trying to trim it down. Try turning down the volumes on the two subs a bit, and then re-run Audyssey. Make sure to keep the room quiet and use a tripod for the mic, and actually get that mic at ear level and away from flat surfaces (like walls and couch cushions).

Then, after running Audyssey, set LFE LPF to 120 and the other crossovers to 80. Play some music with good bass and play with the bass/treble controls and tweak to taste. Then throw on a movie with some good bass scenes and see how it sounds.

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batpig is online now  
post #660 of 2113 Old 02-17-2009, 12:56 PM
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Question-
I am taking out a wall in my TV/AV room and doubling the size. Thinking about getting a second PA-120. What is the best set-up for two subs? I have seen them on each side of the TV in this thread and stacked one on the other in other threads. Which placement will create the best sound?
or
Does it not matter, depending on personal taste?
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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