Premier Acoustic PA-120 - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 10:48 AM
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SO that means that the specs from sounddistributors.com is probably accurate and not what is being posted by the ebay seller. Now this makes the box different from the H-100 and puts it closer to the PA-12W, which isn't a surprise. It is a little shallower at 17" vs. 19". I would think a smaller volume probably means the driver had a higher natural resonance frequency. Can a DIYer confirm? I'm assuming all other factors being equal. It is also interesting to note that the weight and amplifier specs are similar to the PA-12W. So is the SPL sensitivity. That's a potential concern because 85dB is pretty low and 5dB lower than the H-100. Even though he H-100 can only run 150W continuous versus 200W for the PA-120, 5dB is a factor or 3 higher for SPL!!! Of course, that is at 1W of power and I don't know what the SPL is at 150W. I'm sure it isn't linear over that power range.

Here is the updated Specification list with the new information:

Bic Acoustec H100
Price (MSRP): $499 / Each
Design: Heavy Duty Front-Firing 12" Powered Subwoofer, BASH designed amp.*
Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz (+/- 3dB) variable (adjustable crossover)
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Drivers: Heavy Duty 12" Long-Throw Poly-graphite woofer with high power magnet.
Magnetic Shielding: NO
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power - 150 Watt RMS, 500-Watt Dynamic Peak
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17" H x 15" W x 18 1/4" D
Weight: 42 lbs Each
Warranty: 2 Year Parts and Labor.

Bic VK-12
Price (MSRP): $599/Each
Design: 12" 1000-watt peak, Heavy Duty Front Firing Kevlar*Subwoofer with BASH Amp.*Contemporary laquer top & bottom.
Frequency Response: 24HZ -200HZ (+/-3dB), Bypassable 24dB/oct. continuously variable 30-90 Hz low pass filter
Sensitivity: 92dB
Drivers: 12" Premium Grade Kevlar woofer.
Magnetic Shielding: NO
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built in BASH Amplifier: Power 250-watt RMS, 1000 watt peak
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17"H x 15" W x 18 1/4"D
Weight: 48 Pounds
Warranty: 7 Years Woofer, 2 Year Amplifier

Bic F-12
Price (MSRP): $449/Each
Design: Front-firing 12" 475-watt peak powered subwoofer
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 200Hz
Sensitivity: 90dB
Drivers: 12" Injection molded woofer with heavy duty surround
Magnetic Shielding: YES
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power: 475 watts Dynamic Peak, 150 watts RMS continuous
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17"H x 14 3/4"W x 17 1/4"D
Weight: 42 Pounds Each
Warranty: 5 Years Parts & Labor

Premier Acoutics PA-10W
MSRP: $499
Design/Driver: Front-firing polygraphite 10" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB
Ohms: :8 Ohms*
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ span (?!)
Wattage: 150- 500 Watts
Size: 18.35" x 13" x 15.75" (H X W X D )
Weight: 46 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black

Premier Acoustics PA-12W
MSRP: $599
Design/Driver: Front-firing polygraphite 12" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB
Ohms: :8 Ohms*
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ span (?!)
Wattage: 200- 650 Watts
Size: 19" x 14" x 19" (H X W X D )
Weight: 56 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black

Premier Acoustics (?) PA-120
Design/Driver: Front-firing polygraphite (?) 12" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB 1 Watt 1 Meter
Ohms: :8 Ohms
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ (?!) ( +/- 3DB)
Wattage: 200- 650 Watts
Product Size: 18.7" x 14.3" x 17.1" (H X W X D )
Shipping Size: 21.7" x 22.7: x 17.7" (H X W X D )
Weight: 56 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black
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post #242 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 10:54 AM
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I'm pretty sure the PA-12W and the PA-120 are the same sub. Looks to me like the 120 is an update, design wise, on the 12w.

For those that replied back about frequency response, thank you!

The big difference as far as I can see is the BASH amp in the Bic subwoofers.
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post #243 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 01:16 PM
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The amp and the enclosure appear to be similar but the enclosure is slightly smaller than the PA-12W. The driver is clearly not the same. The PA-12W runs about $299 or $70 more. Is it because it has a higher quality driver?
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post #244 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 03:28 PM
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I have more information. I sent an email to Premier Audio. I got a response from a guy from Sound Distributors. Clearly they are connected somehow but he hasn't responded to my question as to how.

He claims that Premier Audio is not related to Bic. He seems quite proud of that fact and of their products. But to those that think they are getting the "new" H-100, you are not. The Bic VK-12 would seem to be the better H-100 but I think they are just two levels of the same product line and nothing is replacing the H-100.

If you go on the Bic website there is another speaker, the F-12, but there is no picture. However, I got one from an internet retailer. I have attempted to link it here. Does it look familiar?

From what I can tell, Bic and PA may be getting their drivers from the same source but they have different enclosures and different amplifiers.
LL
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post #245 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 07:10 PM
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I tend to agree with the above, especially considering the Bash amp.

BTW, bigger pic of the Bic F12

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post #246 of 2113 Old 01-11-2009, 09:45 PM
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Wow, where did you get that monster pic and how did you embed it versus just the ling like I did?

For those with a PA-120, how close is that driver to what is in your sub, based on visual inspection?

When compared to a photo posted on the previous page of this thread they look amazingly similar but the rubber/foam surrounding the cone looks slightly different. It looks "bigger" for the F-12 and it looks like the screws are closer to the edge of this foam/rubber. When I say it looks bigger I mean the outer diameter minus the inner diameter looks slightly larger.
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post #247 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 02:37 AM
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Did the front grill just popout? I tried gently pulling it off with my fingers like on my polks, but I couldn't get enough purchase, and didn't want to damage it.

I ordered my sub about 2 weeks ago, and the ebay site said that there were like 5 left. I received it a few days later and didn't have any shipping problems.

I hooked it up to my PC and tried to play some test tones and bottomed out at around 38 hz, until I realized my soundblaster card distorts around there (Even feeding it SPDIF from a soundblaster through a receiver). Pumping it tones from a playstation, I confirmed that it did go down to 24hz fine. I have it set to about 1/3rd volume, and Audyssey configures it for -9db, so it's plenty loud for my polk monitor 7.1 setup.
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post #248 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubie02 View Post

well, if anybody is interested, I unhooked my Outlaw LFM-1 EX to ship back to Outlaw as a big ol piece of finish flaked off the cabinet (they were great about it and are shipping me a replacement) and hooked my PA-120 back up for the couple of days until I get the new one specifically so I could try it out on the legendary skadoosh scene in Kung Fu Panda, since that seems to be a litmus test these days. I am happy to report that it handles that scene at loud enough levels to greatly upset my dog with no problems. FWIW, I take for granted that the PA-120 is basically a rebadged BIC in the same way that the Outlaw is a basically a rebadged Hsu. The PA-120 handles itself VERY well for a $230 sub, and if I had to go back to it after my Outlaw, which is between 2 and 3 times as expensive, I wouldn't be particularly upset or feel undergunned. Yes, the Outlaw will definitely go louder/hit harder than the PA, but the PA has no problem going louder than I am ever likely to listen to it, and I daresay that would be true for an awful lot of folks not trying to make their ears bleed or needing to fill a huge room (my livingroom is not really small--20x20x10 or so). I have come across VERY few scenes where the Outlaw's going down to 15-16hz is noticeable compared to the PA, and there are times when the PA almost seems more...I dunno, "musical" in a sense, as far as hearing the sound rather than feeling it, though I suspect that is a front vs downfiring difference to some degree, but also that more "feel" can somewhat overwhelm the "sound" part, if that makes sense.

Anyway, if someone reading this is wondering if they could REALLY possibly be satisfied with a PA-120 when clearly the sub forum people feel that a wall full of $1500 subs is the bare MINIMUM to suffice for any home theater......all I can say is that I am betting that 95% of the folks out there looking for a sub for home theater would be thrilled with the PA-120.

Nice post, I agree

I listened to the skidoosh scene and still feel that the opening scene of "Attack of the Clones" (not the new animated one but the older live action) blows it away in terms of letting the PA-120 rumble. When the 2 smaller fighters and then the giant starship rumble by 3 times onscreen and in 3 different directions...you really "feel" this sub, then the explosion caps it off.

IMO

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post #249 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 11:14 AM
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I just got my pa-120 over the weekend from Sound Distributors on eBay. I do agree that listing is confusing, but I'm happy with it. I don't have a lot of comparisons and I sort of just ordered off some of the posts here. I can say compared to the Infinity TSS1100 it replaced it sounds great.
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post #250 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 04:54 PM
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What did you do with your dead TSS-1100?
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post #251 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 05:06 PM
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Just received shipments today and in prestine condition. sub looks great and will be doing some comparison tonite with my mirage s-10
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post #252 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supraken View Post

I noticed from looking in various threads that some people are referring this to the 2009 replacement for the H-100 (most likely because of the misleading Ebay auction title that everyone is getting this from). According to my little research, the PA120 is Premier Acoustics as many of you wrote, but Premier Acoustics is in no way affiliated with BIC America AFAIK. The Ebay auctions are a little shady the way it is titled, very misleading I think. The VK12, on the other hand, is the new replacement for the H-100.

It seems like a good sub at a good price nevertheless.


I guess nobody paid attention to the post I made a few weeks ago regarding Premier Acoustics affiliation with BIC (which is NO affiliation). Glad you guys figured it out, though..


Anyway, my question is still, has anyone had actual experience or direct comparison between this sub and something like a HSU?
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post #253 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post

What did you do with your dead TSS-1100?


It's waiting to be fixed. It was under warranty and since I wanted a surround setup for my "man room" where I play video games I figured it will go in there.

It's taking forever since apparently it fried the entire board and Infinity didn't have parts...and it's been fun trying to make them deal with the issue.
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post #254 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supraken View Post

I guess nobody paid attention to the post I made a few weeks ago regarding Premier Acoustics affiliation with BIC (which is NO affiliation). Glad you guys figured it out, though..


Anyway, my question is still, has anyone had actual experience or direct comparison between this sub and something like a HSU?

I don't know too many people who can compare subs in their house. Most never hear any sub in the same location and it also can come down to a simple...are you happy. THere are always better, bigger and more expensive but for $220 I'm pretty happy with the performance and sound. I don't live in a sound lab, nor have a big room.
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post #255 of 2113 Old 01-12-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayzfelon View Post

Just received shipments today and in prestine condition. sub looks great and will be doing some comparison tonite with my mirage s-10

I'm really curious about the sound levels. These speakers come in at 85dB versus 90dB for the BIC subs. That is at low power so I don't know if the numbers get closer at higher power but 5dB is 3X which is a lot.
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post #256 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 01:41 AM
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Got mine today in perfect shape, looks great! The rest of my speakers come in tomorrow so I will test it out after running the Audessey setup.

It absolutely dwarfs my old Sony sub....
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post #257 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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Well my sub is finally out for delivery today. Hope it's in perfect condition too.

I'll post some impressions when I get it hooked up tonight, but I won't have a professional review by any means.
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post #258 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 12:29 PM
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was able to compare the pa-120 to my mirage s-10 and all i can say is I would not spend another $500 subwoofer in this class. the response was almost identical to the mirage s-10 the pa-120 did outperform the thump on the mirage s-10 because of the bigger driver. Movies were more alive with this subwoofer and music handled really well though i havent done a lot of experiments with the music. Ordering another one to match and officially just retire my mirage s-10 to my game room.
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post #259 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkysko View Post

Did the front grill just popout? I tried gently pulling it off with my fingers like on my polks, but I couldn't get enough purchase, and didn't want to damage it.


In case nobody answered. The front grill is held in by 4 plastic posts, not magnetic as I hoped but it did pop in/out just fine, just give it a good tug and pull directly out and not at an angle. I started at the bottom and then did the top half. I was very careful not to tear the grill as that would have killed me!

Testing mine tonight!
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post #260 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayzfelon View Post

was able to compare the pa-120 to my mirage s-10 and all i can say is I would not spend another $500 subwoofer in this class. the response was almost identical to the mirage s-10 the pa-120 did outperform the thump on the mirage s-10 because of the bigger driver. Movies were more alive with this subwoofer and music handled really well though i havent done a lot of experiments with the music. Ordering another one to match and officially just retire my mirage s-10 to my game room.

Good to hear..I've ordered my second one from famous "ol Mike

I felt the same way when I went to BB or CC to hear those $1000 subs and knew that I couldn't afford one and then read some reader reviews here and took a flyer. One one my friends has a SVS sub and I've heard it...it's great but is it $700+ great...not to me

Sparks....for the love of god...I hope you like your sub

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post #261 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 03:20 PM
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I'm hoping one of you guys will do a frequency sweep. There is one thing I can say about my Infinity sub which is that, when added to the other infinity speakers, it had great accuracy and flatness aside from a slight dip in the mid-bass. While I would like to acquire some lower frequencies and maybe a little more power to handle those tough movies, I don't want a boomy sub that will kill the musical accuracy.

Another thing for people to note is that the BIC F-12 can be had for under $200. The power rating is more in line with the H-100 which is a little less than the PA-120 BUT the SPL is 5 dB higher...supposedly. The lack of data on these subs is frustrating. Is there some place on the web that archives frequency sweeps of subs?
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post #262 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post

The power rating is more in line with the H-100 which is a little less than the PA-120 BUT the SPL is 5 dB higher...supposedly. The lack of data on these subs is frustrating.

I keep reading about concerns over the SPL of this and other subs. Someone check me if i'm wrong, but generally speaking, many lower-line speakers that run at 90dB are more efficient because they have to be; they won't handle the same wattage as speakers that run at 85 dB. Most cheaper subs have far lower RMS ratings than do higher-line subs. i.e., just because they're louder at 1 watt, doesn't mean they'll be louder when the subs are running at 200 RMS. The lower-line 90 dB speaker may come apart.

Obviously, there are higher-line subs with Sensitivity levels at 92 dB...

I guess what i'm trying to say, is that just because a sub is less sensitive at 1 watt doesn't mean you're going to have a volume issue, provided you've got the amp to drive it. I have yet to hear of anyone who owns this sub complain about it's SPL.

I'm still thrilled with mine... I still laugh everytime my wife yells at me for shaking all of that crap (tissue boxes, perfume, spray bottles) off of the top of her toilet!
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post #263 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 04:40 PM
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I got my PA-120 in last night. And it's a beast of a sub for the price! I didn't get to play with it too much since it was late so all I did was plug it in and did some minor calibrations on my receiver. When it came to adjusting the decibels, all my other speakers were at around -7db to -10db, while the sub was at 0db to achieve a similar loudness with the same distance. This is with the volume adjustment all the way up on the sub too. Can't wait till I get home.
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post #264 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskymaniac View Post

Another thing for people to note is that the BIC F-12 can be had for under $200.

Unfortunately, there is even less info on that sub then there is on this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lui_boy View Post

This is with the volume adjustment all the way up on the sub too.

Generally, you should set the sub volume to about half and calibrate from there, if you feel the output is not high enough, then you can raise the volume.
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post #265 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinstripe View Post

Generally, you should set the sub volume to about half and calibrate from there, if you feel the output is not high enough, then you can raise the volume.

I set it in the center initially, but didn't hear anything at 0db. The sub would have been in the +db range compared to my speakers. I'm not sure if that's a problem, but I'm going to need to play around with it more tonight to get it set correctly.
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post #266 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lui_boy View Post

I set it in the center initially, but didn't hear anything at 0db. The sub would have been in the +db range compared to my speakers. I'm not sure if that's a problem, but I'm going to need to play around with it more tonight to get it set correctly.

Make sure you set your speakers at small instead of large on your receiver. this might be the problem why your didnt hear anything when you set it at half on your sub. When its set to large the low frequenzy is being directed to your speakers instead of your subs. even if you have large speakers its ideal to set it at small so it can direct the low freq to your sub. someone correct me if im wrong. WE have similar receiver I have onkyo 705.
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post #267 of 2113 Old 01-13-2009, 10:27 PM
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My PA-120 should be delivered tomorrow. I will let you know what you think...

Chris
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post #268 of 2113 Old 01-14-2009, 08:23 AM
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^^ mine too..WOOT!!!
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post #269 of 2113 Old 01-14-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCat View Post

Sparks....for the love of god...I hope you like your sub

I'm happy to report I got my sub in one piece yesterday. Everything looks good, it's a monster compared to my old 10" Polk. Just plugged it in with the basic recommended settings, sounded pretty good. Felt a little extra oomph watching 24 recorded from Monday. Won't have a chance to really test it out with some good LFE blu rays and tweak it until the weekend probably.

The process sucked along the way, but I doubt I could find anything noticeably better to my ears for twice the price. On the positive side, I waited so long to get this that my 60 day waiting period for MS Live cashback is almost over!
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post #270 of 2113 Old 01-14-2009, 08:58 AM
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Good to hear MarcSparks! Does it meet your expectations?

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