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post #91 of 209 Old 01-25-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 View Post

You'd have to try an IBeam, it is Such a different feel.
and I tried setting the crossover to 200hz..but BK LFE won't kick in til 70hz and I like 100+hz.
However I like the strong movement down low of the BK LFE , so I'd have some tweeking to do for sure.
Output, and crossover playing for hours I'm sure.
I'm not trying to get MORE output, but rather get a Full response in Low freq. and accurate response above 50hz.

The higher you run shakers/tactile tranducers up in frequency, the more prone you are to feel vibration from voices which tends to be annoying IMO. I was thinking similar to your idea about a mixture of two different types. BK lfe from 40hz on down and somethin else (very responsive)from say 40-80. The I Beams sound interesting I wonder how they compare with the likes of Clark Synthesis?
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post #92 of 209 Old 01-25-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 View Post

You'd have to try an IBeam, it is Such a different feel.
and I tried setting the crossover to 200hz..but BK LFE won't kick in til 70hz and I like 100+hz.
However I like the strong movement down low of the BK LFE , so I'd have some tweeking to do for sure.
Output, and crossover playing for hours I'm sure.
I'm not trying to get MORE output, but rather get a Full response in Low freq. and accurate response above 50hz.

I understand what you are trying to do..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

The higher you run shakers/tactile tranducers up in frequency, the more prone you are to feel vibration from voices which tends to be annoying IMO. I was thinking similar to your idea about a mixture of two different types. BK lfe from 40hz on down and somethin else (very responsive)from say 40-80. The I Beams sound interesting I wonder how they compare with the likes of Clark Synthesis?

Double Post... Links #91 & #92 13min. apart
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post #93 of 209 Old 01-25-2009, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

The higher you run shakers/tactile tranducers up in frequency, the more prone you are to feel vibration from voices which tends to be annoying IMO. I was thinking similar to your idea about a mixture of two different types. BK lfe from 40hz on down and somethin else (very responsive)from say 40-80. The I Beams sound interesting I wonder how they compare with the likes of Clark Synthesis?

I agree, the only voice I'd expect to feel a little is voices from the Palnet of the Apes.
Which you do, but blending with the subs/mbm's in what I feel is a realistic feel.
Whereas the BK lies dead silent for me.
amp crossed at 90hz.
A deep, Deep race car engine giving a little sensation that says wow, I really feel my subs shaking the room, (oh it's my IBeam)..is something I like.

I'm going to mix the two tomorrow in one chair and give you my Opinion.
IBeam in my chair.. BK under the leg.
I don't have my second Amp just yet , so setting different crossover points may be a few more days.

I think it's a matter of high mass design vs low mass design.
True Subs and Mid bass modules in my room.. why not in my chairs ?


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post #94 of 209 Old 01-26-2009, 04:47 AM
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IBeam Very sensitive, kick in with very little LFE content or amp power.. of course this is adjustable. If you find it too sensitive.
Clarks with there Platinum ? 900+ ft/lb high Impact ?..from a voice coil?
IBeam..Very Fast, Very Accurate, Very sensitive, ..does not throw the chair side to side in 20-40hz content as much as BK. but still a decent punch foot stomp impact. it weighs less.. solidly built, with a magnet type motion response. vs pistons, or voice coils.
BK does feel sloppy by comparison, in quick hits, but in Real Low LFE rumble BK is pretty damn good.. IRobot when the Big Hellicopter comes in over abuilding the 2 seater shakes like mad (on rubber isolators) 3 seater w/3 Ibeams is hitting super accurate with the blades, but not physically moving the chair like the BK.

So,, I'm not sure I could imagine that Clarks would be more powerfull, I'd like to compare.
I can't seem to find a lot of users for some feedback.

Buy some.. I'll switch a unit with you for a week to compare.?
If I like Clarks better ?... demo IBeams for sale.(cheap).

ps.
wish I could have found a RC-64 to demo,..nice centre.
was concerned about the tss..ts.. in the tweets,

Anyone use anything to enhance LFE content from source? (processor)?


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post #95 of 209 Old 01-27-2009, 03:59 AM
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Buttkicker QCP selector.
Anyone have experience with selecting #3 and having the power drop 90%.
#1 to #2 no difference....#3 and <<<< down to almost nothing.
4 units connected.. one unit per selector port as per instructions.
If I connect them in parallel.. 2+ 2 no prob. butt I loose my selecting feature I wanted.


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post #96 of 209 Old 01-30-2009, 05:47 PM
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Well .... I'm not sure why they engineered the BKA300 kits so you can use two different channels for the wireless, but made the remotes for setting levels/EQ, all on a single and same IR address.

I would have found it more useful if they had configured them so if you use more than one kit (for multiple 'independent' seating set-ups) you could set different IR channels for each remote, and let each occupant of a seat use that seat's remote to adjust the level and EQ for that seat independently.

As it is, if you use more than one kit, each remote will control the level/EQ on all the others unless you can somehow isolate the IR by physical location/sheilding.

My BKA300's are on their way, and I'm hoping somebody knows of a good work-around. (?)
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post #97 of 209 Old 01-30-2009, 06:39 PM
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FYI
BK and company .. says NO More than One BK LFE per Port on the QCP selector.
4 Max.
If you parallel or series multiple BK LFE's then do not connect it to the QCP. Or risk fire, or, BK Amp or QCP selector damage.
So.. Multiple amps is my solution.
I'm going to try Earthquake XJ600, to complete my 5 seats.


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post #98 of 209 Old 02-05-2009, 04:45 PM
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Another 300 item of note .... is that the line out is a "pass through" port, with no level/EQ modification to the audio sent on to any daisy chained amps (which I actually like for my application/set-up).
The IR out of the main 300 amp also only controls an added amp's on/off, but not it's level nor the EQ.
Also .... the "auto standby" function of the 300 will only work if you do not have the RF dongle in use.
Evidently, even when your sound system is off, the BK300's wireless RF system is still sending a non-modulated carrier, that the 300 sees as a "continued signal" and so it won't go into standby.
That sorta makes that function of little use like it is, and really needs an engineering review.

I have two of the 300 kits with their transducers under the 2 seat reclining loveseat center portion of my Berkline seating, with a 1000 daisy chained to them, driving two LFEs under the two end recliner seats (4 seats total).
The system works great (with the exception of the above) and the wireless for the 300 has allowed me to daisy chain the 1000 off it's line out, to achieve a wireless link to my sound system (Harmon Kardon 645) for the 1000, without having to buy it's $70 dollar wireless option. So that's a decent plus.

Amazon just raised the price of the 300, to 95 cents more than the 1000 kit (it's now $399.95 and the 1000 is $399.00, so I'm glad I bought the two 300 kits when I got them at the $299 delivered price!! :-)
Overall, I'm vey happy with my BK set-up, and by programming my Harmony remote I will have a work around for the non-standby situation when I shut off my HT equipment.
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post #99 of 209 Old 03-05-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhato View Post

I have the Buttkicker amp setup in my Harmony remote. So its all good now!!! Back to one remote.

How did you set up your Harmony Remote for the Buttkicker.
I just ordered one and I have a Harmony One Remote.
Thanks
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post #100 of 209 Old 03-05-2009, 04:52 PM
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I dunno exactly what you mean so here it goes:

The ButtKicker comes with an IR remote, I pointed it at the bottom of my Harmony and pressed each button and labeled it in the Harmony Remote Software.

As I turn on an Activity the ButtKicker is enabled. In each Activity I selected "Customize Button", then "Additional Buttons".

On the Page I added a button for
Movie Flat (25hz is unboosted)
Music +6db (25hz is boosted 6db)
Game -6db (25hz is cut 6db)
Vibrate Up (Increase Vibrate Intensity)
Vibrate Down (Decrease Vibrate Intensity)
Pwr Vib (Turn the ButtKicker Amp On/Off)

These are the buttons I created from commands in the remote. If you need help adding these functions through the bottom of your remote, lemme know.
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post #101 of 209 Old 03-06-2009, 09:19 AM
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I know how to setup a customized one. I was wondering if it was
already pre - installed somewhere and what menus to follow to get to it.
If I can't find it I will use your method.
Thanks!
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post #102 of 209 Old 03-08-2009, 07:06 PM
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When I did mine Logitech had nothing. If its there, I assume they took it from me.
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post #103 of 209 Old 03-12-2009, 06:01 PM
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I have a new manufactured home. The flooring is Duradek, 3/4" thick, 8'by12' sheets and nailed and glued to the subfloor. Would the shaking from a buttkicker cause any damage; e.g. loosening floor panels, etc.
Thanks for any reply.
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post #104 of 209 Old 03-12-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

I have a new manufactured home. The flooring is Duradek, 3/4" thick, 8'by12' sheets and nailed and glued to the subfloor. Would the shaking from a buttkicker cause any damage; e.g. loosening floor panels, etc.
Thanks for any reply.

Not if it's glued. (properly).
Not even over a extended period of time.
That glue soaks into the wood and is ther for the life of the wood.
No worries... shake away


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post #105 of 209 Old 03-13-2009, 12:43 PM
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I simply set it up as an amplifier, using the Harmony set up procedure, and ignored the things that didn't make sense (like what controls it's volume) ..... if that makes sense.
But ...... I like vhato's way a 'lot' better, so I'm gonna redo it like he did.

Way cool vhato!!!
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post #106 of 209 Old 03-15-2009, 12:31 PM
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The BigRiver has this for 250 clams. I'm new to all this rumbling stuff but is this a sign of falling prices. For me, 200 clams is what I'm willing to invest.
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post #107 of 209 Old 03-23-2009, 01:43 PM
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What is the Big River?
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post #108 of 209 Old 03-24-2009, 04:45 AM
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And..what is a clam ?


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post #109 of 209 Old 03-26-2009, 07:03 PM
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Amazonriver now at 240 clamdollars.
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post #110 of 209 Old 03-26-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Yeah the Aura shakers only go down to 20Hz, the buttkickers go down to 5Hz!!

The Auras will go below 20Hz, it just takes a TON of EQ to get reasonably flat performance down that low, and a lot of them to make up for their lack of excursion at such low frequencies. I have 25 of them split between my sofa and loveseat, and get good response down to something approaching 10hz. Since I'm using a BFD to EQ, it's hard to do any effective EQ any lower than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

The transducer is clearly not happy at 10hz or 12.5hz for that matter however it is very strong from 15hz on up. Below 15hz it did't bottom as I eased up because you can clearly hear the tranducer in operation instead of just the feeling as normal.

Yes, that is the one downside they have compared to the Auras... since they are a piston sliding in a cylinder, you can hear the rubbing. But I've never heard it in actual use, only when testing low frequency test tones. In real use, there's enough noise during those passages to mask it.

Quote:


Curious if anyone has measured the other BKs to determine if they actually do 5hz?

Mine go below 5hz, but I would expect their response to vary depending on their application. Mine (Buttkicker 2s) are attached to the floor joists, and I would expect that the overall mass of the floor that they are attached to affects the resonant frequency of the floor/buttkicker "system". The Buttkickers on their own are supposed to have a resonant frequency of 9hz. But I can't help but think that if you attach them to a large massive structure of a lower resonant frequency, the end result will be somewhere between the two.

As far as measuring the response... if you consider that buttkickers attached to the floor cause the floor to effectively become a large "driver", you can measure that response just like you do a sub. I've measured my sub both alone, and in conjunction with the buttkickers. The Buttkicker measurements included them wired both ways (to determine which resulted with the floor being more in phase with the sub). In the following graph, the green line is the sub on its own, the purple and red lines are with the buttkickers wired 0° and 180°. You can see there are some phase shifts... at some frequencies they are in phase, and at others out of phase. But "purple" wiring, you can see there's output to 2hz, though obviously it's rolling off the entire way. I have them EQ'd to roll off above 12hz. But I should add that "feeling" their output is different than the measured audio output. They "feel" the strongest around 7-8hz, while they appear to be stronger a little higher.:



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post #111 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 12:38 AM
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Just ordered my BKA 300 from amazon...shipping on tuesday. I had ordered an LFE kit but after a month of waiting and being told by amazon that i would be waiting another onth i cancelled the LFE kit order.

Saw the $240 deal for the wireless BKA 300 and grabbed it!!! Can't wait.

I was also thinking of the crowson tes 100 but the mounting and looking for a seperate amp was too much hassle...i like buttkickers mount. also like the wireless

is it possible to calibrate the buttkicker advance with an spl meter? i was thinking of resting the spl meter on the couch while i play around with the receivers sub woofer test tones.
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post #112 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mactavish View Post

is it possible to calibrate the buttkicker advance with an spl meter?

Not really... they need to be adjusted by feel. I used the meter just to see what kind of effect it was having on my sub's output, and which way to wire them to prevent them from cancelling out my sub's response. But you can't really count on a meter to have completely accurate response at such low frequencies, you can't expect a microphone sitting on a vibrating object to be an accurate way to measure those vibrations, and there's really no reference to calibrate it to. Your butt is a much better tool for the job.


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post #113 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quick Question on the buttkickers... I ordered my first one, and hooked it up to my Berkline seat. I am only trying one right now, to see if I like them. I have the buttkicker amp and one buttkicker. I have a bunch of test tones, and started to play.

At 30-40hz – I have the amp turned up, about ¾ to full, and I get a nice shake
At 20-30hz – A little less shack, but still good
At 10-20hz – Amp at the same level, and the thing kicks like a mule, just bottoms out nonstop.
At 10 and below… just bottoms out with a big Donk Donk Donk…..

So I lower the “volume” on the buttkicker amp, and It still bottom out at the real low stuff 20hz and down, but can no longer feel anything at the higher 20-30 range… I guess I should just lower it to where I can feel it at 20 and below?

- Scott
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post #114 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 09:30 AM
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I had problems with mine bottoming out on LF content, but I was trying to shake my whole floor with two buttkickers. Haven't had the issue since adding four more. I wouldn't expect that issue with a buttkicker attached to just one seat, and 3/4 gain on a single seat seems like a lot. My amp is only 1/2 up (12:00) and I get a TON of shaking on my floor. Are you sure it's got a good firm mount, and you have isolators under the chair?


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post #115 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 10:37 AM
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If you don't really need wireless, should you go for the LFE kit for the extra money? Any performance improvement over this wireless kit? From what I understand, the wireless is not fully wireless anyway. You need the cable form amp to shaker (unless you hide amp under couch) and I would guess you need a power cable to shaker as well. The wireless part is only AVR to amp but if you can setup amp near the AVR and run a long cable to shaker you would be ok. How reliable is 900MHz?
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post #116 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 10:43 AM
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Some more questions. My recliner sofa does not have feet but a metallic rail base (see pic).

1. Can I still put the Buttkicker under the metal frame as I would under a foot? Or the only option is to find a place under the middle part of recliner?

2. Would one BK advance (that comes with wireless NOT the LFE kit) unit be enough for a 3 seater sofa with recliners? The recliner sofa is much heavier than normal sofa.

3. This sofa is on a thick carpet and an upgraded carpet pad. Do I still need isolation? I am guessing the little rubber feet won't work with the metallic rail base. What else can I use?
LL
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post #117 of 209 Old 03-27-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:


Curious if anyone has measured the other BKs to determine if they actually do 5hz?

I measured my original ButtKicker setup this afternoon. I have 4 units lowpassed @ 20 Hz. Each pair is driven with a Crown K2 ampifier. I started with feeding them a 19 hz sine wave and worked my way down to 5 hz in 1 hz increments. I set the volume for strong output at 19 Hz and did not touch it during the test. I had silent strong output (blurred vision) down to 7 hz and did not feel a drop off until 6 hz. I experienced a significant drop at 5 hz.

John



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post #118 of 209 Old 04-03-2009, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inphoenix View Post

Some more questions. My recliner sofa does not have feet but a metallic rail base (see pic).

1. Can I still put the Buttkicker under the metal frame as I would under a foot? Or the only option is to find a place under the middle part of recliner?

2. Would one BK advance (that comes with wireless NOT the LFE kit) unit be enough for a 3 seater sofa with recliners? The recliner sofa is much heavier than normal sofa.

3. This sofa is on a thick carpet and an upgraded carpet pad. Do I still need isolation? I am guessing the little rubber feet won't work with the metallic rail base. What else can I use?

I am guessing no one knew the answers so I had to experiment to find out. Here are the answers to my own questions. I hope they help someone else in future.

1. The metal frame of recliner actually had plastic feet under it. 12 of them (4 feet for every seat of sofa).

2. One BK advance is NOT ENOUGH. It does not kick butt. It feels more like you are sitting on a remote of video game which is buzzing. I called ButtKicker and they told me that I need to get LFE KIT and one extra shaker. They said I absolutely need two shakers for a recliner sofa. I really wish this was in FAQs somewhere. Now I have to return the wireless kit and *maybe* I will buy the LFE Kit after first not so good experience.

3. Isolation is required even on carpet. The feet are also important to keep the balance. Before you order turn your sofa/couch upside down and count the number of feet. Order extra isolators with your BK. You will need them.

Hope this helps someone.
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post #119 of 209 Old 04-04-2009, 09:02 PM
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Another price drop. Now showing $216.12 delivered at Amazon. On the fence? If so, it's time to get off already!

Deep Space - the free, all natural wire insulator, cabinet damper and transducer equalizer.
* Patented by Quietspeaker Industries, a division of Almighty Group.
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post #120 of 209 Old 04-05-2009, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Not really... they need to be adjusted by feel. I used the meter just to see what kind of effect it was having on my sub's output, and which way to wire them to prevent them from cancelling out my sub's response. But you can't really count on a meter to have completely accurate response at such low frequencies, you can't expect a microphone sitting on a vibrating object to be an accurate way to measure those vibrations, and there's really no reference to calibrate it to. Your butt is a much better tool for the job.

hey i just got my bka 300.


UPDATE: found better way to more accurately set the buttkicker.

You need an SPL meter to give you the db values.

unhook your subwoofer first. Now set spl meter to slow c-weight.

You can either lay spl meter on the base plate or on the spot where you will sit.

turn on your receiver's subwoofer test tone.

adjust volume level of the buttkicker amp until spl meter reaches 63 db(SPL meter on the base plate) or 60db (on the spot on couch where you will sit). These are my values I got from my receiver's test tone after I calibrated with AVIA's test tones at 70 db.

try my values first and watch movies/music that ususally bottom out the buttkicker.

if the buttkicker still bottoms out, lower the volume level of the buttkicker amp until it doesnt bottom out, turn on the subwoofer test tone, lay the SPL meter on the transducers base plate or on the couch, and take note of the db value. This will be the db value you will use for the buttkicker.

Don't forget to plug back the subwoofer.

On my subwoofer test tone, 60 db is what i use to calibrate the buttkicker. if i set it higher than 60 db it will bottom out, so i set the buttikicker to 60 db everytime i adjust the volume level of my receiver. I'm not sure about test tones on other receivers so you can try 60 db first and then adjust, and take note of the db using the spl meter.
John Mactavish is offline  
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