SVS New PC12-NSD Owners - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 834 Old 09-16-2009, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gelinas View Post

Which one has more output spl-wise?
Which one is "cleaner" for music?
Is the svs worth the additional in your opinion? If so why? Is it based on performance, aesthetics, customer service, etc...

Unfortunately I don't listen to music with my system so I can't comment on that

Was it worth it, in a short answer, yes. I was considering buying either another A2-300 or A3-300 but the area I have the second sub installed just couldn't support the size so I looked into the SVS cylinders because of the footprint and excellent reviews. I had the WAF in full effect which mad my decision for the SVS that much easier.

As far as SPL I'm not 100% sure. I have never really pushed either the eD or SVS but I can say the SVS is probably the winner between the two but to me it's close. Now I know that placement and room acoustics are key to great performance from any sub so I know there are better areas in my room that would make both the eD and SVS shine even harder but I had to compromise with the wife. Yea I know the wife won but I'm still very happy with the results and one reason I wanted a second sub to try and help with the nulls and the SVS cured that. Also one thing to note is when I dialed both subs in separately I have the eD's gain at 11 o'clock and the SVS at 9 o'clock to achieve 75db from both subs. Not sure if this is because the eD has a smaller amp or the SVS is that more efficient of a sub. I think placement could be playing a role in this from my seating position.


The SVS took the place of my Energy ESE-10 which wasn't a bad sub but the eD kept going while the Energy just couldn't, so on some really low LFE I could tell the sub was lacking.
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post #362 of 834 Old 09-25-2009, 09:08 PM
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has any one compared PC12 NSD with LFM-1 EX?

I want to buy one of these, Outlaw LFM is on sale right now.

Any insight will help.
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post #363 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 06:47 AM
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Has anyone tested their PC12 in room response to see how low it could go?
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post #364 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

Has anyone tested their PC12 in room response to see how low it could go?

I've tested mine in 2 different rooms, and both had good response down to 16 Hz. I was testing around 85 dB though, so others who listen at high volumes will have different impressions.

The first room was 11' x 18' with 8' ceilings. 2 door sized openings on opposite ends of the left wall. At 85 dB the effects in movies practically brought down my place (middle unit of a townhouse) and I felt abused after watching an action movie.

The next room is 11' x 22' with 8' ceilings, but with a giant opening on the back left wall to a different room & stairs. Letting my receiver EQ everything, I have flat response down to 16 Hz ( haven't tested lower), but this room doesn't let the sub give me that high impact feeling. You can hear all the notes very clearly, and perceive the subsonic vibrations in your body, but the higher stuff just doesn't hit you hard enough in my room. I guess I just need 2 subs to counteract this room.
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post #365 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruttenjump View Post

I've tested mine in 2 different rooms, and both had good response down to 16 Hz. I was testing around 85 dB though, so others who listen at high volumes will have different impressions.

The first room was 11' x 18' with 8' ceilings. 2 door sized openings on opposite ends of the left wall. At 85 dB the effects in movies practically brought down my place (middle unit of a townhouse) and I felt abused after watching an action movie.

The next room is 11' x 22' with 8' ceilings, but with a giant opening on the back left wall to a different room & stairs. Letting my receiver EQ everything, I have flat response down to 16 Hz ( haven't tested lower), but this room doesn't let the sub give me that high impact feeling. You can hear all the notes very clearly, and perceive the subsonic vibrations in your body, but the higher stuff just doesn't hit you hard enough in my room. I guess I just need 2 subs to counteract this room.

Thanks and very interesting. What did you use to test it. Did you feed it a sine wave?
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post #366 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric-t View Post

Has anyone tested their PC12 in room response to see how low it could go?



This is after EQ. I suspect I have a room null near 13Hz. My second subwoofer follows the SVS' sub 20Hz response exactly in a different position.
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post #367 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert_E View Post



This is after EQ. I suspect I have a room null near 13Hz. My second subwoofer follows the SVS' sub 20Hz response exactly in a different position.

How low of a test tone did you go?
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post #368 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 10:20 AM
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Was done using a logarithmic sweep from 10Hz up in Room Equalisation Wizard

The graph plots signal amplitude vs frequency. I put a marker at 15Hz. Below that it rolls off, probably a bit steeper than it should because of the null at 12->13Hz
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post #369 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_E View Post

Was done using a logarithmic sweep from 10Hz up in Room Equalisation Wizard

The graph plots signal amplitude vs frequency. I put a marker at 15Hz. Below that it rolls off, probably a bit steeper than it should because of the null at 12->13Hz

And was this done at a reference volume of 75db?
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post #370 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 12:28 PM
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From the graph it looks closer to 92dB.
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post #371 of 834 Old 09-26-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_E View Post

From the graph it looks closer to 92dB.

Didn't realize I could click and enlarge the graph
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post #372 of 834 Old 09-29-2009, 06:37 PM
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arrgh - I forgot I was going to add some pics of my beloved new sub and my 99% completed HT. I love this sub, dont need any more bass thats for sure. Its so soft and cuddly, I'm just hoping my wife doesnt catch me with my arms around it...LOL (totally kidding you weirdos).

Here are some fuzzy pics taken from the iphone. If anyone wants to see better pics of the sub and/or my room let me know and I'll throw them up (i'll use a real camera).

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture003.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture002.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture001.jpg

thanks again for the help everyone.

Strength, Determination, Merciless, Forever
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post #373 of 834 Old 09-29-2009, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sdmfer View Post

Its so soft and cuddly, I'm just hoping my wife doesn't catch me with my arms around it...LOL (totally kidding you weirdos).

Actually, that one of the best ways to move it. Wrap your arms around it and with one hand put your fingers around the top lip of the amp recess. Just don't squeeze it tightly. Save that for your wife.

Randy
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post #374 of 834 Old 09-30-2009, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sdmfer View Post

dont need any more bass thats for sure

Hehe a couple of months ago I got the NSD and thought the same. Now I've got a 15" sub in the other front corner too

Together they tear my apartment apart and it's just awesome
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post #375 of 834 Old 10-25-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_E View Post



This is after EQ. I suspect I have a room null near 13Hz. My second subwoofer follows the SVS' sub 20Hz response exactly in a different position.

Based on that graph, do you have a null around 30Hz? IF so, what can be done to cure that null? BTW, which frequencies yield the most impact to the listener?
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post #376 of 834 Old 10-25-2009, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gtbdevs View Post

Hey,

I ordered the PC12 NSD, had it in the house for about 4 days, I'm returning it for the PB12+, my room was about 4000 cfs. The PC12 sounded great, but it didn't get me to where I wanted to be.

Hope this helps?

So there will be a B-stock PC12-NSD available.....

Ok guys...I am 95% sure that the PC12+ is what is best for me. I was set on a regular NSD-PC12, but may try and spend the extra to get the PLUS. A couple of quick things.

First, I have not seen any posts from current NEW PC12+ owners. I hope gtbdevs can post some feedback. The PLUS is almost twice the price of the NSD-PC12...actually about $400 dollars more (%70 more), but of course it has great upgrades.

I would also love to hear more about the Parametric EQ that is featured with the PC12-PLUS.
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post #377 of 834 Old 10-25-2009, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by deepstang View Post


First, I have not seen any posts from current NEW PC12+ owners. I hope gtbdevs can post some feedback. The PLUS is almost twice the price of the NSD-PC12...actually about $400 dollars more (%70 more), but of course it has great upgrades.

I would also love to hear more about the Parametric EQ that is featured with the PC12-PLUS.

I have two of the new PB12 Pluses (almost exact in SQ except for the container shape) and they are downright frightening in a 12x12 room, especially with the new Transformers Blu-ray. The build quality is also top notch. I have no regrets. According to SVS, the Plus puts out around (trying to remember) 60% more spl than the NSD. Ed Mullen designed it and he said that the Plus is close to the Ultra in SQ and spl - very close. Hope this helps.
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post #378 of 834 Old 10-25-2009, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Based on that graph, do you have a null around 30Hz? IF so, what can be done to cure that null? BTW, which frequencies yield the most impact to the listener?

Yes that is a null just below 30Hz. The second sub in a different position helps to reduce that null but not completely.
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post #379 of 834 Old 10-26-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

I have two of the new PB12 Pluses (almost exact in SQ except for the container shape) and they are downright frightening in a 12x12 room, especially with the new Transformers Blu-ray. The build quality is also top notch. I have no regrets. According to SVS, the Plus puts out around (trying to remember) 60% more spl than the NSD. Ed Mullen designed it and he said that the Plus is close to the Ultra in SQ and spl - very close. Hope this helps.



Thanks. Did you upgrade from a previous SVS sub? Also, did you jump right into a pair, or did u get one at a time?
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post #380 of 834 Old 10-26-2009, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Thanks. Did you upgrade from a previous SVS sub? Also, did you jump right into a pair, or did u get one at a time?

I had four NHTs running before the SVS subs. I had the one PB12 Plus for about a month before I bought the second. Ed Mullen convinced me, but I'm also a bass head and like the bass running hot, so two have more headroom and smooth the room modes. Two running together produces bass that is "effortless" and gut pounding.
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post #381 of 834 Old 10-26-2009, 05:43 PM
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Thanks. I was hoping to hear from someone that upgraded from a NSD to a Plus...no big deal. Ed Mullen has given a lot of great straight forward answers on what to expect in comparison. If people are thrilled with the PC12-NSD, the PLUS can only be better. Now if i can only get the wife to see it the same way. Sigh...
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post #382 of 834 Old 10-26-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Thanks. I was hoping to hear from someone that upgraded from a NSD to a Plus...no big deal. Ed Mullen has given a lot of great straight forward answers on what to expect in comparison. If people are thrilled with the PC12-NSD, the PLUS can only be better. Now if i can only get the wife to see it the same way. Sigh...

I understand. The wife thing is a whole different obstacle lol.
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post #383 of 834 Old 10-29-2009, 05:40 AM
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So I am guessing that there are no current owners here of specifically the new PC12-plus. I guess there is no doubt that the PC12-plus is a great sub, but it is always comforting to find an AVS member with personal experience with a specific product.

Anyone have any info or experience with the "single parameteric Eq" that comes with the PC12-plus? I really have no experience with parametric Eqs. My wife does not approve, but I think that I am ready to order this sub this week.....I just need one little push.
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post #384 of 834 Old 10-29-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

So I am guessing that there are no current owners here of specifically the new PC12-plus. I guess there is no doubt that the PC12-plus is a great sub, but it is always comforting to find an AVS member with personal experience with a specific product.

Anyone have any info or experience with the "single parameteric Eq" that comes with the PC12-plus? I really have no experience with parametric Eqs. My wife does not approve, but I think that I am ready to order this sub this week.....I just need one little push.

I have not used the PEQ on the subs, as my pre/pro has smoothed the curves (which Ed recommended in the absence of REW software) and the response is now pretty linear.

My wife didn't really approve either, but this is my only addiction so I broke her down lol. Good luck to you on the WAF!
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post #385 of 834 Old 11-25-2009, 07:21 AM
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Hey everyone. I just got the PC12-NSD and the MBS-01 bookshelves with an Onkyo 707 receiver as that is all I can afford is a 2.1. Start saving and adding on next year.

My room dimension are 18x14x8 and the room is open on the left side going to the dining and kitchen area. The bookshelves are Left and Right of the TV and the sub is sitting just to the right of the fron, right bookshelf speaker I have read a ton of posts on here of people "feeling" the bass and being somewhat blown away. However, I am a newbie to all of this and maybe I just don't know how to setup correctly.

I hooked everything up last night and ran the Audyssey EQ from the Onkyo and have not messed with any other settings but wanted to give it a test run. I am not feeling the bass whatsoever which can't be right from all the posts I have read. I mean a lot of people have similar size dimensions and report plenty of bass to fill the room and not having to go past a 10 o clock position.

Can anyone help me out with settings, setup advice for the subwoofer or an Onkyo 707 receiver? I have to be missing something. I double checked and everything is hooked up correctly with the proper cables and the receiver is recognizing a 2.1 stereo system setup. I do have a friend coming over on Friday to try and hash out why I am not getting that oomph. I was thinking about getting the PC12 Plus but after reading many posts, going over room dimensions, and another friend who saw the actual room I was setting up the consensus pointed to the PC12-NSD being more than enough to provide solid smooth deep rich bass to fill the room. I am at the crossroads right now of figuring out if the problem is me or that I need to return and get the PC 12 plus.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #386 of 834 Old 11-25-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by starstx View Post

Hey everyone. I just got the PC12-NSD and the MBS-01 bookshelves with an Onkyo 707 receiver as that is all I can afford is a 2.1. Start saving and adding on next year.

My room dimension are 18x14x8 and the room is open on the left side going to the dining and kitchen area. The bookshelves are Left and Right of the TV and the sub is sitting just to the right of the fron, right bookshelf speaker I have read a ton of posts on here of people "feeling" the bass and being somewhat blown away. However, I am a newbie to all of this and maybe I just don't know how to setup correctly.

I hooked everything up last night and ran the Audyssey EQ from the Onkyo and have not messed with any other settings but wanted to give it a test run. I am not feeling the bass whatsoever which can't be right from all the posts I have read. I mean a lot of people have similar size dimensions and report plenty of bass to fill the room and not having to go past a 10 o clock position.

Can anyone help me out with settings, setup advice for the subwoofer or an Onkyo 707 receiver? I have to be missing something. I double checked and everything is hooked up correctly with the proper cables and the receiver is recognizing a 2.1 stereo system setup. I do have a friend coming over on Friday to try and hash out why I am not getting that oomph. I was thinking about getting the PC12 Plus but after reading many posts, going over room dimensions, and another friend who saw the actual room I was setting up the consensus pointed to the PC12-NSD being more than enough to provide solid smooth deep rich bass to fill the room. I am at the crossroads right now of figuring out if the problem is me or that I need to return and get the PC 12 plus.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Can you make a diagram or take pictures of your room? With bass, placement is key. Both the subwoofer placement and your seating location will make a big difference on bass response. Are you sitting right smack in the middle of the room? If so, you're in a big bass vacuum. You can also experiment with different subwoofer locations to see if they help.

Try running a movie scene with good bass and moving around the room. Chances are at some location you'll get good bass. You can try the "sub crawl". Put the sub at your main listening position and play something with lots of bass. Then crawl around the room listening for where the bass sounds the best. This is where you should put the subwoofer. It sounds strange, but it really does work!

Another recommendation is to use a SPL meter to manually calibrate the subwoofer with the rest of your speakers. Audyssey usually does a good job, but it's good to check for yourself to make sure it calibrated well.

Also double check to make sure you don't have "midnight mode" or DRC (dynamic range compression) on in your receiver or DVD/Blu-ray players. These modes limit bass output.

Hope you can get things figured out. The PC12-NSD won't be an absolute beast in your room, but you should definitely feel it! Best of luck.
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post #387 of 834 Old 11-25-2009, 11:42 AM
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Hey thank for the post. I will play around with the sub placement but don't think that is the issue here. I will add that the main listening position is about 10 feet from the sub. I understand it may not blow the shirt off my back but something definitely isn't right aside from placement. I will take pictures tonight after doing some tweaking.

I did go through the manual for the sub and the one for onkyo and Audyssey setup and I do see a couple of things that need to be changed that could make a Major difference and could be the reason I am not getting very much out of the sub. I'll repost tonight after I update some of the settings in the receiver and whether it works or not. I post some pics of the room too and would like to get some feedback. Its really not a very large listening area except the floorplan is very open on the left side to the dining area which is outside of the main listening area.

I would spring the extra $400 for the PC 12 Plus but I would like to make sure I am listening to this subwoofer as it is intended before making any decision.
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post #388 of 834 Old 11-25-2009, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by starstx View Post

Hey thank for the post. I will play around with the sub placement but don't think that is the issue here. I will add that the main listening position is about 10 feet from the sub. I understand it may not blow the shirt off my back but something definitely isn't right aside from placement. I will take pictures tonight after doing some tweaking.

I did go through the manual for the sub and the one for onkyo and Audyssey setup and I do see a couple of things that need to be changed that could make a Major difference and could be the reason I am not getting very much out of the sub. I'll repost tonight after I update some of the settings in the receiver and whether it works or not. I post some pics of the room too and would like to get some feedback. Its really not a very large listening area except the floorplan is very open on the left side to the dining area which is outside of the main listening area.

I would spring the extra $400 for the PC 12 Plus but I would like to make sure I am listening to this subwoofer as it is intended before making any decision.

Yer issue is with the settings on the Onkyo go in & tweak after the Ad. setup mine needed some tweakin" like the bass cross over & boosting the Sub level up some

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post #389 of 834 Old 11-25-2009, 01:26 PM
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I did go through the manual for the sub and the one for onkyo and Audyssey setup and I do see a couple of things that need to be changed that could make a Major difference and could be the reason I am not getting very much out of the sub. I'll repost tonight after I update some of the settings in the receiver and whether it works or not. I post some pics of the room too and would like to get some feedback. Its really not a very large listening area except the floorplan is very open on the left side to the dining area which is outside of the main listening area.

I would spring the extra $400 for the PC 12 Plus but I would like to make sure I am listening to this subwoofer as it is intended before making any decision.


I have two new PB12 Pluses in a 12x12 sealed room and I had the same issue when my Yamaha RX-V3900 calibrated them flat. I'm running them a few dbs hot to get the subjective sound (chest pressurizing) I crave. Not a 'proper' calibration, but I don't care. My .02 cents.
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post #390 of 834 Old 11-28-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

I have two new PB12 Pluses in a 12x12 sealed room and I had the same issue when my Yamaha RX-V3900 calibrated them flat. I'm running them a few dbs hot to get the subjective sound (chest pressurizing) I crave. Not a 'proper' calibration, but I don't care. My .02 cents.

I just wonder whre you got the idea that the pb and pc's have the same SQ?

I have read and seen ground planes suggesting the cylinder shape lends itself to mid bass suck out and a low tone heavy tendency
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