SVS PB13-Ultra vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Disregarding price, which subwoofer overall, in your opinion, is superior?
SVS PB13-Ultra 2 50.00%
JL Audio Fathom f113 2 50.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 12:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Or more likely, 8 of 10 have never heard either one

That may be true as well.

______________________________________________
Joe = LFE Addict
Joe's LOWARHORN build
Dual LMS-5400 Ultra Endtables build
jpmst3 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 01:25 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,061
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Or more likely, 8 of 10 have never heard either one

As one of the two, this is really a pointless discussion.

Both are nice products but they are very different in design and construction. The PB13 is a very good HT subwoofer that also does a good job for music.

We did a side by side at my house in the fall of 2007 with two PB13's and my dual F113's. The consensus was that if money were no object, the F113 was preferred. Honestly, both subs exibited distress (distortion) at the highest playback levels. The Fathom acutally had less distortion but that may have been a setup issue.

The Price Delta is more easily understood if you look at both subs side by side. The Fathom fit and finish is comparable to the best audiophile grade products. The SVS is nicely constructed but definitely a step down from the Fathom. The same applies to the amp and drivers.

Some don't care about these things and if that is the case the SVS will save some money and give up very little (if any) performance wise. But the OP said regardless of price and my guess is that most if not all of the "I prefer the SVS" guys would choose the F113 if the price weren't an issue.

HToM

"Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?"
RMK! is online now  
post #93 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 03:20 PM
Member
 
Gorstag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

While that list is helpful and a valuable resource, there are more than a few oddities. The PB12-NSD scored three points higher for music than the PB10-NSD .

Keep in mind the PB12 he demo'ed was not the current shipped PB12. He has been asked not to provide a point value for the new one and has not. But from my understanding it scored about 10 points higher than Rev 1's value.

I'm fairly new to Audio in general but from my research it appears SVS does multiple revisions on an individual line through its life cycle. Amp/cross-over tweaks etc that improve the subs abilities.
Gorstag is offline  
post #94 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
croseiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Faulty assumption #1:

Just because something costs more makes it better....


[remember this is Spinal Tap...but mine goes to 11]
croseiv is offline  
post #95 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 04:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

As one of the two, this is really a pointless discussion.

Both are nice products but they are very different in design and construction. The PB13 is a very good HT subwoofer that also does a good job for music.

We did a side by side at my house in the fall of 2007 with two PB13's and my dual F113's. The consensus was that if money were no object, the F113 was preferred. Honestly, both subs exhibited distress (distortion) at the highest playback levels. The Fathom actually had less distortion but that may have been a setup issue.

The Price Delta is more easily understood if you look at both subs side by side. The Fathom fit and finish is comparable to the best audiophile grade products. The SVS is nicely constructed but definitely a step down from the Fathom. The same applies to the amp and drivers.

Some don't care about these things and if that is the case the SVS will save some money and give up very little (if any) performance wise. But the OP said regardless of price and my guess is that most if not all of the "I prefer the SVS" guys would choose the F113 if the price weren’t an issue.

As the other one, I agree with Rob. I must be getting old as that's the third time I've said that. This whole thread should have ended after posts 5 and 6.

I was going to say that some people need to learn when to shut up, but then I wouldn't have been able to follow with this:
If this was a discussion about the HSU PB13 and the TCA F113, the arguments wouldn't have gone on so long. Throw in the name SVS or what most remember was the selling price of the Fathom, and the same old arguments flare up.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #96 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
croseiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I agree...this thread is a waste... However, ransac and RMK I value your judgements here.
croseiv is offline  
post #97 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 05:14 PM
CIH USER
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 17,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 297
I think the best way to go is to audition both subs. It all comes down to what you like. Having a thread like this just causes arguments.

_________________________

Frank
Franin is offline  
post #98 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
chengbin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'll say it again, the PB13 is better for the OP because he uses it for 100% movies and want serious bass. Yes, the JL is smaller, sounds slightly better for music, is better built. All of these advantages disappear because

1. the OP is fine with the size of the PB13

2. The OP is not using it for music

3. The OP cares about output in HT scenes.

The PB13 is a clear winner for him. It is not the best sub for everyone, but for the OP, the PB13 is better than the F113. A lot better considering everything.
chengbin is offline  
post #99 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 05:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,852
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked: 1170
bicker...bicker... what has this become, politics?

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is offline  
post #100 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

I'll say it again, the PB13 is better for the OP because he uses it for 100% movies and want serious bass. Yes, the JL is smaller, sounds slightly better for music, is better built. All of these advantages disappear because

1. the OP is fine with the size of the PB13

2. The OP is not using it for music

3. The OP cares about output in HT scenes.

The PB13 is a clear winner for him. It is not the best sub for everyone, but for the OP, the PB13 is better than the F113. A lot better considering everything.

Actually, the OP doesn't specify use. That was a secondary poster that said 100% HT (post #10).

Something else we haven't considered is the cost and or availability of either sub in Dubai.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #101 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 05:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

I agree...this thread is a waste... However, ransac and RMK I value your judgements here.

Your judgement really comes into question after this post.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #102 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 06:05 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,061
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

your judgement really comes into question after this post.

+1

HToM

"Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?"
RMK! is online now  
post #103 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
King Titus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Internet
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
"Chenbin:
BTW, I don't think you can get the f113 this low now. I think it is much closer to MSRP now.[/quote]


Nope! No where near MSRP.
If you shop, you will pay under $2300 (I just bought one a few months ago and quoted on another weeks ago) depending on tax or no tax.
If your time is more valuable elsewhere, instead of shopping, pay MSRP.

At a low price/profit, you are not going to get much out of the dealer, besides moving a box.

Honest Graft.
"I saw my opportunities, and took them"!
King Titus is offline  
post #104 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 06:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
croseiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The bottom line is that either sub will serve you well....As you can see the poll is split...
croseiv is offline  
post #105 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 06:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Valencia, Ca
Posts: 3,738
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 390 Post(s)
Liked: 809
I don't see how these two subs are even seen as competitors.

I see lots of reasons to want either one, just don't see the process coming down to one or the other.
Tack is online now  
post #106 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 06:48 PM
CIH USER
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 17,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

The bottom line is that either sub will serve you well....As you can see the poll is split...

Exactly and to say one suits better for a particular job than the other would have to be the biggest bs I've read. If subs are positioned and calibrated correctly they will do an amazing job whatever is given to them.

_________________________

Frank
Franin is offline  
post #107 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 07:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

I don't see how these two subs are even seen as competitors.

I see lots of reasons to want either one, just don't see the process coming down to one or the other.

Probably because people haven't seen them together. I tried to find the pics RMK! took of his F113s sitting on top of Weez's PB13s, but that thread is too old and appears to be gone.

The pics show the size difference between the two. The PB13 is significantly larger, but I didn't think it was OMG large. But I have a +/2, so most subs look small to me.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #108 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 07:18 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,782
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked: 521
I used to think the plus/2 was big, not anymore.

AVR-Yamaha A830
amps-5 Adcom 555 in 850 watt monoblock mode
sub amp-Sanway FP14K
LCR-Dual stacked BFM DR-250's
Surrounds- Dual stacked BFM W10's
subs-12 SI 18's ported 6hz.
MKtheater is online now  
post #109 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 07:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Wadda ya say we go answer some other posts and help out some people tonight instead of comparing these two fantastic products?

And Croseiv, i'm glad you're outta the closet you silly Fanboy.
mayhem13 is offline  
post #110 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 07:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xcjago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Harbor City, CA
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, I had both subs in question at my house, and you can see from the picture there is quite a big difference in size between the two:



xcjago is offline  
post #111 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 07:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Well, I had both subs in question at my house, and you can see from the picture there is quite a big difference in size between the two:




OMG, the Ultra ate your Fathom!!

Reminds me of the Sub Human video.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #112 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 08:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mozvz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 1,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

Probably because people haven't seen them together. I tried to find the pics RMK! took of his F113s sitting on top of Weez's PB13s, but that thread is too old and appears to be gone.

The pics show the size difference between the two. The PB13 is significantly larger, but I didn't think it was OMG large. But I have a +/2, so most subs look small to me.

Something like this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3652


"Man plans, God laughs"
Mozvz is offline  
post #113 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 08:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
dlfromcanada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 841
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
[quote=jostenmeat;I bet you could not find anyone, not a single person, at least in the lower 48, who has paid anywhere close to MSRP:[/QUOTE]

maybe not, but here in Ontario, Canada, that is certainly not the case, JL introduced the f113 in it's first Toronto store at the $5000 mark, last I checked (before xmas) things have not changed too much, they were trying to get 5k when our dollar was worth about 10% more than yours too, ridiculous, people here were paying at one time the equivilanet of $5500 US dollars for a sub which then had an msrp of around $2600

with the turn in the economy, I just might check to see if things have changed much

sorry, for sxrewing up the quote
dlfromcanada is offline  
post #114 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 08:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
croseiv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Wadda ya say we go answer some other posts and help out some people tonight instead of comparing these two fantastic products?

And Croseiv, i'm glad you're outta the closet you silly Fanboy.

SVS fanboy, not silly! Get it straight.
croseiv is offline  
post #115 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 08:48 PM
CIH USER
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 17,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 297
I can see this thread locked soon!

_________________________

Frank
Franin is offline  
post #116 of 158 Old 01-27-2009, 09:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ransac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tryon, NC
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

Something like this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3652


That's it. The one with the two handsome fellows and four good subs.

Randy
ransac is offline  
post #117 of 158 Old 01-28-2009, 09:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mozvz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 1,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's been a slow day here so I took some time to go through Craig's thread as I remembered him posting an Ultra and JL 113 photo comparison. Both look great. The other photo as I am sure the guys know are his personal testing subs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2152




"Man plans, God laughs"
Mozvz is offline  
post #118 of 158 Old 01-28-2009, 11:28 AM
pbc
AVS Special Member
 
pbc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,423
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Has anyone have both in a theatre room?

Yes, twice.

My place (SVS had an amp issue unfortunately) ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=shootout

Jakeman's dedicated HT ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=shootout

Nice pics of all the various subs as well.

My own thoughts:

You'll see in these comments for different material, different subs were selected as the "best sounding". Why? Because it's a subjective question and the subs are very, very close in performance. If we did the same shootouts again, I'd bet we'd likely all have different opinions. That's how close they were (graphs and numbers aside).

Yes, the Ultra will dig deeper for HT (physics can't be completely fooled, though the F113 does a great job trying), but as someone mentioned, you're only going to get this maybe 5% of the time where a movie plays a passage that tests the limits of the F113. I chose the F113 for most music if I recall, but others chose the Ultra, and others chose, well, other subs.

Both are incredible sounding subs. Which is the "better" sub, money no object? I would say from a technological perspective, the F113. It has a more robust amp, impressive self-EQ technology, and better build quality. Also, to get that kind of performace from that small a package is, well, mind numbing. You won't be unhappy with either though, I can pretty much gaurantee you that (I can, but I won't of course).

Which would I want if money is no object? Again, the F113. Why? Again, it looks darn incredible, and can hide in a room (my room is a family room, not a dedicated HT).

Oh ... I own the Ultra. Money was an object ... or more accurately, my wife just didn't think I should spend $4,000 to $5,000 on a sub - yes, that is what the price was in Canada (after our lovely sales taxes) to get a Fathom.


Disclaimer: No the tests weren't conducted in perfect conditions, subs weren't in the same spot, humidity levels may have been different in the two rooms, alcohol was consumed during these tests, planet's weren't fully aligned, bla bla bla.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

pbc is offline  
post #119 of 158 Old 01-28-2009, 12:43 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,061
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

Something like this one?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3652


OK, somebody tell that guy to put some paint on those walls

Scary how much the room and equipment have changed in the last 18 months. Is there a doctor in the house?

HToM

"Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?"
RMK! is online now  
post #120 of 158 Old 01-28-2009, 12:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mozvz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northeastern PA
Posts: 1,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

OK, somebody tell that guy to put some paint on those walls

Scary how much the room and equipment have changed in the last 18 months. Is there a doctor in the house?

How about one of those before and after photos?

Personally, I always enjoy looking at equipment that people own and how they have their rooms setup. There's much to learn in show and tell.

Charles

"Man plans, God laughs"
Mozvz is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off