BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2862 Old 07-20-2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

...I do feel that taking a new, solid, high performance driver and hooking it to an old, underpowered amp from years ago could blow the amp; it might not be able to handle it...

Hey Sound Master BIC- the only instances I've heard of an amp blowing is if the driver is rated at a lower impedance than the amp is rated for. The relative age of the driver doesn't have anything to do with it. A lower impedance on the driver can overstress the amp's output stage by causing it to deliver too much current for it's design. It's likely to overheat and damage itself. For example, if your sub currently uses a driver rated at 8 Ohms, it's not wise to buy a replacement driver that's rated at 4 Ohms. Then you'll run the risk of frying your amp.

I'm just posting this to be specific as to why this could happen for some of the folks who were questioning what you were saying. Now, as to the acoustics, Jakeman's explanation was a good one. A sub's amp and driver are often designed as a pair, changing the driver defeats the purpose. Anyways, there's my $0.02 if anyone cares.

I've had my F12 for several months now...it's a beast, but it can be tamed with a little tweaking and the right placement.
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post #452 of 2862 Old 07-21-2009, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by deecee20 View Post

Hey Sound Master BIC- the only instances I've heard of an amp blowing is if the driver is rated at a lower impedance than the amp is rated for. The relative age of the driver doesn't have anything to do with it. A lower impedance on the driver can overstress the amp's output stage by causing it to deliver too much current for it's design. It's likely to overheat and damage itself. For example, if your sub currently uses a driver rated at 8 Ohms, it's not wise to buy a replacement driver that's rated at 4 Ohms. Then you'll run the risk of frying your amp.

I'm just posting this to be specific as to why this could happen for some of the folks who were questioning what you were saying. Now, as to the acoustics, Jakeman's explanation was a good one. A sub's amp and driver are often designed as a pair, changing the driver defeats the purpose. Anyways, there's my $0.02 if anyone cares.

I've had my F12 for several months now...it's a beast, but it can be tamed with a little tweaking and the right placement.

Yes deecee20, thats a good point, amps meant to run @ 8 ohms run hard enough @ 4 ohms could stress and blow any amp, quick. I was thinking, you take a fairly low powered, older amp, driving a 8" or 10" driver, then hook it up to a 12" driver meant to be run by a much higher powered amp, it's a recipe for disaster. In order to get the volume and sp you want you'd likely have to ask too much of the poor old amp, do that long enough and there will be a meltdown. But I suppose you could do the same with any amp/driver.
I just don't think it would be a wise decision to spend $200+ for a driver and put it in an old box wired to an old amp when you could spend the same or less for a new sub, one of the choices being the F12.
I've also had mine for a few months and I've said many times in this forum that I'm still thrilled with what it does for every movie and every CD/MP3/AAC I've played.
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post #453 of 2862 Old 07-23-2009, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

JoshKo you aparrantly do not care about sound quality...SM thinks the F12 is Gods gift to the audio world and that no other can even compete...Not to mention all he likes is boom boom boom in which case the F12 serves him well...Go ahead and throw your $$$ away...Hope you enjoy your F12...If you honestly believe the crap being fed to you that using a new driver is going to blow your amp...well there really is nothing else to say other than this...Do you want to buy a bridge???

Just bought one for $189. I'm sure my ears are not as finely tuned as your sour disposition, but I'm looking forward to getting it setup nonetheless. I'll keep you posted so you can rain on my parade.
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post #454 of 2862 Old 07-23-2009, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ccquadman View Post

just bought one for $189. I'm sure my ears are not as finely tuned as your sour disposition, but i'm looking forward to getting it setup nonetheless. I'll keep you posted so you can rain on my parade.



:d:d:d:d

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post #455 of 2862 Old 07-24-2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ccquadman View Post

Just bought one for $189. I'm sure my ears are not as finely tuned as your sour disposition, but I'm looking forward to getting it setup nonetheless. I'll keep you posted so you can rain on my parade.

Where from?
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post #456 of 2862 Old 07-24-2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccquadman View Post

Just bought one for $189. I'm sure my ears are not as finely tuned as your sour disposition, but I'm looking forward to getting it setup nonetheless. I'll keep you posted so you can rain on my parade.

Good one! I needed a good laugh this mornin.

Trust me, you won't like it nearly as much as what he recommends.
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post #457 of 2862 Old 07-24-2009, 09:17 AM
 
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Trust me, you won't like it nearly as much as what he recommends.

Exactly...
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post #458 of 2862 Old 07-27-2009, 11:33 AM
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Yeah, last time I looked I found one for $182.50 shipped.
Should've ordered it then. Looks like most places are out of stock.



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I was going to purchase one today, but I see all reputable dealers are sold out and Amazon is gouging $349.99.

Guess I wait until stock comes back in.

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post #459 of 2862 Old 07-27-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wrxlvr View Post

Yeah, last time I looked I found one for $182.50 shipped.
Should've ordered it then. Looks like most places are out of stock.

Everyone's out unfortunately and from the vendors I've talked to, it looks like it's going to be that way for awhile.

I have interest in the Bic PL-200, but there's just no reviews on it and very little user information in general.
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post #460 of 2862 Old 07-27-2009, 11:35 PM
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I have the PL-200.

I think the the reason so few people have it though, is because for $329 shipped, you are real close to a SVS or HSU sub, so many people go that route, instead of just buying the best of the cheap stuff.

But if you are considering the cheap stuff, ie. F12, H100, BIC VK series, PA-120. Then the PL-200 is DEFINITELY the best of the cheap stuff.

Trust me, its chest pounding performance will transform any movie, I've been rewatching movies since I've bought it, and feeling the explosions instead of just listening to them.
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post #461 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 09:41 AM
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Thanks Mike,

How does it do for music in general? That's what it will be used for 90% of the time.
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post #462 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 09:54 AM
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Well, I went with the PL-200, due to its really really low bass extension and high output, because I'm using it for 90% Home Theater application.

If your looking for a sub to use with 90% Music, I wouldn't go with any of the subs I listed.

I'd go with the most inexpensive sealed sub I could find.

That being said, I have played some music with my PL-200, I just turned the gain down on the sub a few notches before I do, and it sounded perfectly fine to me.
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post #463 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

I have the PL-200.

I think the the reason so few people have it though, is because for $329 shipped, you are real close to a SVS or HSU sub, so many people go that route, instead of just buying the best of the cheap stuff.

But if you are considering the cheap stuff, ie. F12, H100, BIC VK series, PA-120. Then the PL-200 is DEFINITELY the best of the cheap stuff.

Trust me, its chest pounding performance will transform any movie, I've been rewatching movies since I've bought it, and feeling the explosions instead of just listening to them.

Never heard the PL200 or VK12 but the VK12 has a kevlar driver and the driver in the PL200 is the same as the F12, I think. I read they buy the VK driver from the same manufacturer that B&W uses. Besides that the 2 are almost identical, same amp, same weight... I would think the VK12 would be a strong competitor. Anyone heard the VK12?
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post #464 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Never heard the PL200 or VK12 but the VK12 has a kevlar driver and the driver in the PL200 is the same as the F12, I think. I read they buy the VK driver from the same manufacturer that B&W uses. Besides that the 2 are almost identical, same amp, same weight... I would think the VK12 would be a strong competitor. Anyone heard the VK12?

I was considering the F12, very close in fact, but then I saw the PL-200, and it was 150W RMS vs. 250W RMS, and I thought to myself, I can spend another 100 bucks for over 50% more power.

If they do use the same driver, that thing must be pretty underpowered in the F12.
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post #465 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

I was considering the F12, very close in fact, but then I saw the PL-200, and it was 150W RMS vs. 250W RMS, and I thought to myself, I can spend another 100 bucks for over 50% more power.

If they do use the same driver, that thing must be pretty underpowered in the F12.

Don't know about 'underpowered,' obviously 100 more would be nice but you can feel the F12 in the chest and through the couch during movies like you said about the PL200. Don't forget during big movie moments you're getting more of the "peak" output of the amp as well. I think it does a great job with music as well. I have also been re-watching movies and re-listening to CD's and I'm always surprised/pleased how the F12 brings a new listening experience to both.
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post #466 of 2862 Old 07-28-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post


I'd go with the most inexpensive sealed sub I could find.

Any suggestions Mike?

Edit: I'll start a new thread so I don't clutter this one up.
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post #467 of 2862 Old 07-31-2009, 09:01 AM
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Provantage has the F12 back in stock for a great price. 41 in stock as of right now (was 42 before I placed my order)
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post #468 of 2862 Old 07-31-2009, 03:37 PM
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make that 38 well 37 now since I just ordered haha! Should sound sick with my Energy c-50 surround I just ordered last night in my new house whoop whoop!

Blu-ray... Beyond High Definition
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post #469 of 2862 Old 08-03-2009, 09:44 AM
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...now 35. Can't wait!
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post #470 of 2862 Old 08-03-2009, 09:56 AM
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I'm very tempted to buy a second one just to aggravate wife!
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post #471 of 2862 Old 08-03-2009, 06:32 PM
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And right when they came back in stock, Amazon lowered their price again to beat ProVantage, if you factor in the free shipping from Amazon.
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post #472 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 08:49 AM
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thanks alot everyone. i was very close to pulling the trigger on the Polk 10 PSW-10 or the non-reference Dayton sub. this seem like it will fit my bill & the price continues to drop, provantage has it for $158. just bought an AVR & sats, so gotta wait until next week.
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post #473 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dvs1270 View Post

thanks alot everyone. i was very close to pulling the trigger on the Polk 10 PSW-10 or the non-reference Dayton sub. this seem like it will fit my bill & the price continues to drop, provantage has it for $158. just bought an AVR & sats, so gotta wait until next week.

Try to do a little more research before pulling the trigger. Polk subs have performance and reliability issues. Spending a little more may save you in the long run and prevent upgraditus.

Polk SL2000WC $3 DIY mod. Smaller the uf, the less harsh your SL2000 is.
1. SRS: .47 uf/250v mylar cap top SL2000, 1.0 2nd, 1.0 3rd, .47 bottom
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post #474 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 11:39 AM
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F12 or 1220 ? My current onkyo 9100 subwoofer is very weak, i don't hear much in action from that sub.


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post #475 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cornhulio View Post

Try to do a little more research before pulling the trigger. Polk subs have performance and reliability issues. Spending a little more may save you in the long run and prevent upgraditus.

What the hell are u talking about???
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post #476 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mugupo View Post

F12 or 1220 ? My current onkyo 9100 subwoofer is very weak, i don't hear much in action from that sub.


F12 is the one, I think the 1220 is an older version, a smaller lighter slower version.
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post #477 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugupo View Post

F12 or 1220 ? My current onkyo 9100 subwoofer is very weak, i don't hear much in action from that sub.


Hi, I went with the v1220 because it was downward facing in my small room. I also placed it on a kitchen cutting board so it would not sink into my carpeting. at target for about $15 it is the same size as the speaker cab.
http://www.target.com/Chefmate-Poly-...20board&page=1
I thought it might help with sound deflection in all directions. I am very happy with it's performance.

my
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post #478 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

F12 is the one, I think the 1220 is an older version, a smaller lighter slower version.

the f12 is a side mounted speaker/the 1220 is downward facing one.

my
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post #479 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvs1270 View Post

provantage has it for $158. just bought an AVR & sats, so gotta wait until next week.

That's actually a little higher than I bought it for.
Also, that price is before shipping. Mine should be here tomorrow.
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post #480 of 2862 Old 08-05-2009, 03:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

F12 is the one, I think the 1220 is an older version, a smaller lighter slower version.

Slower??? Thanks for the laugh...
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