BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 2862 Old 03-16-2010, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rschwarz_jr View Post

Too bad many of you canceled they got a bunch in and mine shipped yesterday. I was 50th in line mid week so it was a big shipment.

Out of curiosity, when did you order from BLT?
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post #1082 of 2862 Old 03-16-2010, 04:23 PM
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I got an email saying mine won't be in till april 12th. Then all the sudden I get another saying it has been shipped and was on my doorstep in 3 days. I am hooking it up right now!
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post #1083 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 09:44 AM
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You want it? We've got it! The BIC F-12 subwoofer is IN STOCK! Hurry, there are only 26 left! 1 minutes ago via web

From BLT's twitter. Looks like they filled all their backorders too. I ordered mine yesterday.
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post #1084 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Out of curiosity, when did you order from BLT?

ordered 2/24/2010 received yesterday.
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post #1085 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 12:39 PM
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blt has 27 in stock right now.


Good deal for people wanting this. Almost wish I had not canceled mine now.
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post #1086 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 12:57 PM
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This sub sounds great but if the volume is past 2 or 3 it gets boomy. Is there something I have configured incorrectly or do I have a problem?

I have the switch on the sub set to digital receiver so the crossover is disabled. The receiver is configured with sub on and all speakers as small and the other settings are stock, for now.
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post #1087 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 01:25 PM
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Play around with the sub placement. Also try reducing the sub channel output level on your receiver to see if that helps.

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're real." - Abraham Lincoln

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post #1088 of 2862 Old 03-17-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschwarz_jr View Post

ordered 2/24/2010 received yesterday.

Ordered mine 2/14. Just arrived today. Hoorah!

Setting it up now!
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post #1089 of 2862 Old 03-18-2010, 05:19 AM
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Blarney Can't get the F-12 to work properly.

I set it up following the instructions to connect to my Yamaha RX-V465 AVR. Yamaha says to put the crossover dial on the sub to max and volume to around halfway. The receiver type switch is set to PROLOGIC. Using 35-foot monoprice cable.

After everything was connected, I ran Yamaha's auto-speaker setup program (YPAO - Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimizer). When the test process got to the subwoofer, all you could hear was a faint thump, thump, etc. When the test was completed, I was underwhelmed by the overall sound. So I reran the test with volume on the subwoofer set to 3/4. This time you could hear the subwoofer a bit better but not by much on FM radio stations but hardly at all using the TV.

So I decided to some manual tweaking which resulted in the auto-standby switch not working properly. Fumbling around some more, I set all my speakers to small size (I've got vintage fronts and surrounds), and set the Bass Out to SWFR. Still no go. Argh! I'm going to start over tonight with the hope of figuring out what the problem is.
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post #1090 of 2862 Old 03-18-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Blarney Can't get the F-12 to work properly.

I set it up following the instructions to connect to my Yamaha RX-V465 AVR. Yamaha says to put the crossover dial on the sub to max and volume to around halfway. The receiver type switch is set to PROLOGIC. Using 35-foot monoprice cable.

After everything was connected, I ran Yamaha's auto-speaker setup program (YPAO - Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimizer). When the test process got to the subwoofer, all you could hear was a faint thump, thump, etc. When the test was completed, I was underwhelmed by the overall sound. So I reran the test with volume on the subwoofer set to 3/4. This time you could hear the subwoofer a bit better but not by much on FM radio stations but hardly at all using the TV.

So I decided to some manual tweaking which resulted in the auto-standby switch not working properly. Fumbling around some more, I set all my speakers to small size (I've got vintage fronts and surrounds), and set the Bass Out to SWFR. Still no go. Argh! I'm going to start over tonight with the hope of figuring out what the problem is.

Hi bigwheels1 and congrats on the new sub, try this setup settings:
Volume to "3"
Phase to "0"
Crossover Freq. to "180"
Receiver Type to "Digital 5.1,6.1,7.1"
Power to "On" (for now and set to "Auto" after YPAO)

Run YPAO Auto Setup

Speakers to "Small"
Bass Out to "SWFR"
SWFR to "NRM"
Crossover to "80" (to start out with - adjust higher if needed)
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post #1091 of 2862 Old 03-18-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi bigwheels1 and congrats on the new sub, try this setup settings:
Volume to "3"
Phase to "0"
Crossover Freq. to "180"
Receiver Type to "Digital 5.1,6.1,7.1"
Power to "On" (for now and set to "Auto" after YPAO)

Run YPAO Auto Setup

Speakers to "Small"
Bass Out to "SWFR"
SWFR to "NRM"
Crossover to "80" (to start out with - adjust higher if needed)

JChin -- thanks! It's sounding better than yesterday. I still think it could be improved upon.

The SWFR Level is at the end of the 2nd dash. The SWFR Distance using the YPAO Auto Setup is listed at 15.5-feet. However, it's actually 10-feet. Somehow I think the YPAO mic isn't picking up the Subwoofer frequencies that well....I may have to move the subwoofer around the room, rerun the YPAO Auto Setup (using your suggestions) and see if I get a more fuller LFE and Bass sound. However, then I'll be plugging the amp into an extention cord rather than directly into a wall outlet as BIC suggests.

Anyways, I now have crossover to "90" and the volume to nearly "8" (that's when it starts to distort). I'll see if the break-in period enhances the LFE and Bass sound.

One thing's for sure -- I'm being given a WAF's thumb's-up. She thinks the Bass sounds good while I think it could be improved upon (must be a guy thing).
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post #1092 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 05:51 AM
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My son and I watched the DVD version of the movie "The Incredibles" last evening. The F-12 delivered on the LFE and bass! I knew we had a winner when my son kept saying "wow" during LFE scenes.

Although I am impressed with the sub, I'm still puzzled as to why I need the sub volume dial to be nearly cranked to adequately hear the sub. Common sense says that 3-5 on the volume dial should be the range for most situations. However, I need mine set at 7.5 or 8 to clearly hear the sub's capabilities. Setting the sub's volume dial at 9 or 10 (top of range) distorts the sound.

I e-mailed a BIC tech about all this who said that "Clearly the receiver (Yamaha RX-V465) is giving the sub less than normal amplitude of signal."

Before contacting Yahama about this, anyone have any suggestions about how I might troubleshoot this? For those of you using your AVR to control the crossover on the F-12 sub, what do you have your sub volume dial set at?
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post #1093 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

I e-mailed a BIC tech about all this who said that "Clearly the receiver (Yamaha RX-V465) is giving the sub less than normal amplitude of signal."

This is probably accurate. My Onkyo receiver runs the subs at -3db and both my F12's are set to 3-4 on the knob. It may just take some tweaking on your part to get it dialed in properly.

I don't know the details of your receiver so I'm afraid I won't be much more help past that.
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post #1094 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by XARiUS View Post

This is probably accurate. My Onkyo receiver runs the subs at -3db and both my F12's are set to 3-4 on the knob. It may just take some tweaking on your part to get it dialed in properly....

So how did you discover that your Onkyo runs the subs at -3db? Does it state that on the AVR display? Just curious.

Update: Tweaking is the answer. I reran the auto-speaker setup with the volume dial at the half-way point. That along with some additional manual tweaking is getting the sub sounding better and better.

Now if I only had a 2nd sub....I can just see the look on my wife's face! Better wait a while! Actually, she has dropped the hint numerous times that she wants a Bose Acoustic Wave Music System II with Multi-CD Changer. So our next electronic purchase down the road will be one of 'dem 'dere things. And it does cost a few clams more than a BIC F-12 subwoofer!
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post #1095 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Before contacting Yahama about this, anyone have any suggestions about how I might troubleshoot this?

A high subwoofer gain (volume) could be still related to location of the sub.
Try performing sub crawl test to find the best location.
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post #1096 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

A high subwoofer gain (volume) could be still related to location of the sub.
Try performing sub crawl test to find the best location.

Yeah--I thought about doing the crawl test. However, the sub is currently located near our only electric wall outlet. If I moved it around, I'd have to use an extension cord which BIC doesn't recommend. You may have a point regarding the relationship between the subwoofer gain and sub location. For now I'll keep on a-tweakin'!
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post #1097 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Yeah--I thought about doing the crawl test. However, the sub is currently located near our only electric wall outlet. If I moved it around, I'd have to use an extension cord which BIC doesn't recommend. You may have a point regarding the relationship between the subwoofer gain and sub location. For now I'll keep on a-tweakin'!

Have you try the setup suggestion?
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post #1098 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Have you try the setup suggestion?

Yes -- your setup suggestion was very helpful.

The only thing I changed before running the YPAO setup was setting the volume dial to "6" instead of "3" (I tried "3" and there wasn't enough oomph in the LFE/bass). The sub is performing better now. I may roll the dice and re-run the setup with the volume at 8 just to see if that is more beneficial.
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post #1099 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Yes -- your setup suggestion was very helpful.

The only thing I changed before running the YPAO setup was setting the volume dial to "6" instead of "3" (I tried "3" and there wasn't enough oomph in the LFE/bass). The sub is performing better now. I may roll the dice and re-run the setup with the volume at 8 just to see if that is more beneficial.

Maybe try raising the sub off the ground some (using the form blocks that came in shipping) and see if that help some before re-run.
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post #1100 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Maybe try raising the sub off the ground some (using the form blocks that came in shipping) and see if that help some before re-run.

Will try it.
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post #1101 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 04:26 PM
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Believe it or not, if anyone is interested, BLT has 1 F-12 in stock!
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post #1102 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 05:37 PM
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Where is the link to BLT? google' d and nothing came up
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post #1103 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 05:53 PM
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Where is the link to BLT? google' d and nothing came up

Bottom Line Telecommunications = BLT
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post #1104 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 06:28 PM
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Bottom Line Telecommunications = BLT

Thanks so much...
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post #1105 of 2862 Old 03-20-2010, 10:09 PM
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Anyone else having issues with BLT not loading tonight?
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post #1106 of 2862 Old 03-21-2010, 08:43 AM
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How does the V1020 compare? I stay n a apartment at the moment but if the F12 is that much better I'd be willing to spend a couple extra dollars to get a sub that I won't be wanting to upgrade if I move to a slightly larger place in the future.
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post #1107 of 2862 Old 03-22-2010, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Have you try the setup suggestion?

Yes -- your setup suggestion was very helpful.

The only thing I changed before running the YPAO setup was setting the volume dial to "6" instead of "3" (I tried "3" and there wasn't enough oomph in the LFE/bass). The sub is performing better now. I may roll the dice and re-run the setup with the volume at 8 just to see if that is more beneficial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Maybe try raising the sub off the ground some (using the form blocks that came in shipping) and see if that help some before re-run.

Will try it.

~ ~ ~

Raised the sub off the ground by using the shipping foam blocks. I didn't notice any difference in sound by raising the sub off the floor. At any rate, I've decided to keep it off the floor. I cut the sides off of the bottoms blocks and plan on spray painting them black so they blend in with the sub.

Reran the YAPO auto-speaker setup with the crossover frequency at "180" and the volume dial at "5." Anything louder resulted in a volume error code at the end of the setup (W-3: Error Level -- Adjust the output volume of the subwoofer). I previously ran the YPAO auto-setup volume at 6 or above and accepted the error.

I set all the speakers to small, the Bass Out to "SWFR", and the SWFR to "Normal". While I now have the volume dial on the Sub set to "6", I boosted the Sub Level on the AVR to right around the half-way point (it was nearly all the way to the left). That seems to help the subwoofer stay on rather than shut-off when in auto-on mode due to not receiving enough bass enhancement signal.

I plan on contacting Yamaha to see if they can suggest anything else that might boost the bass enhancement signal.
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post #1108 of 2862 Old 03-23-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Yeah--I thought about doing the crawl test. However, the sub is currently located near our only electric wall outlet. If I moved it around, I'd have to use an extension cord which BIC doesn't recommend. You may have a point regarding the relationship between the subwoofer gain and sub location. For now I'll keep on a-tweakin'!

Why don't you try running the sub from speaker level, in other words follow the instructions from BIC on how to run speaker wires from your mains to the F12. Just a thought, should let you know if there is a problem with the F12. There is NO WAY you should have it turned up to 6, 7, 8 or 9, I have never had mine past 5. It's settled in nicely round 3 1/2 - 4.

Placement will make a big difference but not so much that you need to turn it up to 8. If I put mine in the worst spot in the room, say the middle, I wouldn't need to have it that high.
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post #1109 of 2862 Old 03-23-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

So how did you discover that your Onkyo runs the subs at -3db? Does it state that on the AVR display? Just curious.

Update: Tweaking is the answer. I reran the auto-speaker setup with the volume dial at the half-way point. That along with some additional manual tweaking is getting the sub sounding better and better.

Now if I only had a 2nd sub....I can just see the look on my wife's face! Better wait a while! Actually, she has dropped the hint numerous times that she wants a Bose Acoustic Wave Music System II with Multi-CD Changer. So our next electronic purchase down the road will be one of 'dem 'dere things. And it does cost a few clams more than a BIC F-12 subwoofer!

Unless you have a fairly large room I don't think you really need a second, matter of choice of course but once you get it set up properly you may find the need for another F12 is gone. More money for a Bluray player or more movies.

Before you buy the Bose, you have to check out the B&W Zeppelin, It is hands down a better unit than any Bose, imho and reviewers agree.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=2466
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post #1110 of 2862 Old 03-23-2010, 06:32 PM
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Got my F12 in the mail from BLT today and hooked it up. It's pretty fantastic and looks and sounds great. I can't wait not to have a downstairs neighbor so I can turn it up a bit.
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