BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 2862 Old 04-09-2010, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by raksun9 View Post

I have a pair of Dahlquist speakers (18 years old!) which sound great. My center channel is a B&W 6 series. I have a small Yamaha Sub that I have connected at speaker level and plan to connect this at line level.

I am hoping this will make a huge difference to my output. WIll post when I get the BIC and set it up.

It will, you won't believe your ears once you get it hooked up!
Nothin wrong with old speakers. Mine are 30 years old, PSB top of the line at the time and the ever popular Advent loudspeaker, front & rear. New small Paradigm for centre duty. My buddy from a high end audio store came over a year or so ago and put them through their paces, ran some audio tests, says I don't need to waste any money on new speakers, these sound great but when they're this old they could go any time...
When they do die he has some nice Paradigms ready for me.
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post #1172 of 2862 Old 04-09-2010, 01:00 PM
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Does anyone know if the f-12 will be good enough for a room 20x10x10?

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post #1173 of 2862 Old 04-09-2010, 09:59 PM
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I just watched Terminator Salvation, and the F12 handled the bass very well, sounded great !!!
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post #1174 of 2862 Old 04-10-2010, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Artman22 View Post

Does anyone know if the f-12 will be good enough for a room 20x10x10?

If your budget is limited to $200.00, the BIC F12 more than likely will satisfy your auditory needs. I have a 20x10x10 space (listening area is 10x10x10) and am pleased with the sub (it's good enough!).
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post #1175 of 2862 Old 04-10-2010, 10:51 PM
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Does anyone had problems running audyssey set up using their Onkyo receivers(with the f-12 sub) ? I have Onkyo 505 and i cudnt make the audyssey see the subwoofer. I get the "Sp Detect error" if the subs vol is low and "noise error" if the subs vol is high. Its driving me nuts. Someone pls help.
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post #1176 of 2862 Old 04-10-2010, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

Does anyone had problems running audyssey set up using their Onkyo receivers(with the f-12 sub) ? I have Onkyo 505 and i cudnt make the audyssey see the subwoofer. I get the "Sp Detect error" if the subs vol is low and "noise error" if the subs vol is high. Its driving me nuts. Someone pls help.

What are the sub settings?
And how is the sub connected to receiver?
How did the sub sound during the test tone?
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post #1177 of 2862 Old 04-11-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

Does anyone had problems running audyssey set up using their Onkyo receivers(with the f-12 sub) ? I have Onkyo 505 and i cudnt make the audyssey see the subwoofer. I get the "Sp Detect error" if the subs vol is low and "noise error" if the subs vol is high. Its driving me nuts. Someone pls help.

I have the same receiver here's what the manual states.
If you’re using a powered subwoofer, because it outputs
very low-frequency sound and its position is usually low
down, it may not be detected by the automatic speaker
setup. In this case, increase the subwoofer’s volume, set
it to its highest crossover frequency, and then try running
the automatic speaker setup again. Note that if the volume
is set too high and the sound distorts, it may not be
detected, so use an appropriate volume level. If the subwoofer
has a low-pass filter switch, set it to Off or Direct.
Refer to your subwoofer’s instruction manual for details.
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post #1178 of 2862 Old 04-12-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippo775 View Post

I have the same receiver here's what the manual states.
If you're using a powered subwoofer, because it outputs
very low-frequency sound and its position is usually low
down, it may not be detected by the automatic speaker
setup. In this case, increase the subwoofer's volume, set
it to its highest crossover frequency, and then try running
the automatic speaker setup again. Note that if the volume
is set too high and the sound distorts, it may not be
detected, so use an appropriate volume level. If the subwoofer
has a low-pass filter switch, set it to Off or Direct.
Refer to your subwoofer's instruction manual for details.

Yeah i read this and adjusted the sub's volume to a medium sound. Not Low & Not High. Then the audyssey detected the sub. Thanks Guys.
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post #1179 of 2862 Old 04-12-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artman22 View Post

Does anyone know if the f-12 will be good enough for a room 20x10x10?

Mine is larger than that and completely open to kitchen, front hall and dining room, plenty of punch for your room.
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post #1180 of 2862 Old 04-12-2010, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Mine is larger than that and completely open to kitchen, front hall and dining room, plenty of punch for you room.

Would the pl-200 be a lot different? as far as having a lot stronger punch?

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post #1181 of 2862 Old 04-13-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artman22 View Post

Would the pl-200 be a lot different? as far as having a lot stronger punch?

No idea, haven't heard the PL-200. I'm more than satisfied with the 'punch' and everything else this sub has delivered. For the money I just can't see doing any better. I have heard subs at twice the price that didn't sound as good, may have been their room or settings but... Love the F12 and would buy it again.
Just had some people over on the weekend for a movie and tunes. During the movie a few of them thought there was a problem outside the house, they didn't know what but one guy actually went out to see what was going on, I assured him it was just the sound from the system and movie. They couldn't believe it. I was laughing my ass off!
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post #1182 of 2862 Old 04-13-2010, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

No idea, haven't heard the PL-200. I'm more than satisfied with the 'punch' and everything else this sub has delivered. For the money I just can't see doing any better. I have heard subs at twice the price that didn't sound as good, may have been their room or settings but... Love the F12 and would buy it again.
Just had some people over on the weekend for a movie and tunes. During the movie a few of them thought there was a problem outside the house, they didn't know what but one guy actually went out to see what was going on, I assured him it was just the sound from the system and movie. They couldn't believe it. I was laughing my ass off!

+1 I am extremely happy with mine as well and has alot more punch than I thought it was going to have. I was very suprised and happy of the bass response I got for such a great deal. Now I use it for games and movies mainly and some music maybe 10% of the time. I think it does a great job at every source.
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post #1183 of 2862 Old 04-13-2010, 02:09 PM
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I too am really pleased with this sub. I have some passive subs, but never realized what a powered sub could do for the movie experience especially.
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post #1184 of 2862 Old 04-13-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by zippo775 View Post

I too am really pleased with this sub. I have some passive subs, but never realized what a powered sub could do for the movie experience especially.

I cant say this yet. I have a Infinity Beta towers as my front and used a 8'' Polk Sub before. This Sub has defenitely has more bass than before. But i still cant say i am blown away by it. I am waiting on a Auralex gramma shipment. Hope that will improve the subs perfomance.

I am using a Onkyo 505 receiver and have connected at line level. In Receiver set the cross over at 80 hz and in the Sub the cross over at full and volume levels at 4.

I will post my experience after placing the sub on the auralex gramma. Our family room is hardwood and i guess using the gramma will improve the subs bass and performance. Lets c
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post #1185 of 2862 Old 04-13-2010, 07:12 PM
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I would be interested in hearing your report of the f12 combined with the gramma. Thanks.
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post #1186 of 2862 Old 04-14-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

I cant say this yet. I have a Infinity Beta towers as my front and used a 8'' Polk Sub before. This Sub has defenitely has more bass than before. But i still cant say i am blown away by it. I am waiting on a Auralex gramma shipment. Hope that will improve the subs perfomance.

I am using a Onkyo 505 receiver and have connected at line level. In Receiver set the cross over at 80 hz and in the Sub the cross over at full and volume levels at 4.

I will post my experience after placing the sub on the auralex gramma. Our family room is hardwood and i guess using the gramma will improve the subs bass and performance. Lets c

What about the db settings in your AVR menu, are they set low? Did you use the auto speaker set-up, audyssey? It sometimes sets the sub too low. The settings you mentioned you should be getting alot more punch than it sounds like you've got! I have the F12 volume level at 3 1/2 to 4, never higher, and tons of punch.
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post #1187 of 2862 Old 04-14-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

What about the db settings in your AVR menu, are they set low? Did you use the auto speaker set-up, audyssey? It sometimes sets the sub too low. The settings you mentioned you should be getting a lot more punch than it sounds like you've got! I have the F12 volume level at 3 1/2 to 4, never higher, and tons of punch.

Thx. I used the audyssey. But it kept the db settings too low. I changed it manually. Sub is set at + 12db and the rest around +6 to +8 db. Still i don't see a blowing away punch all the time. There is good bass on few advertisements and some bass filled music. But not on regular tv viewing. Its certainly better than the old 8'' sub. But i have to increase the volume on the receiver to 45 to get a good punch on the sub. Thats the maximum we ever set to watch any kind of TV. I shouldn't be keeping the volume of the receiver to max all the time to hear a good punch. I should be able to get good bass even on medium volume. Thats my goal.

Question for you. How high do you keep yr volume on the receiver ? Do you always listen loud ?

Edit: Our Family room is 20 * 20 and has cathedral ceilings and open to Kitchen. May be thats why ? I have added a older picture of the speaker location. The Bic F-12 is'nt there in the picture. But its right where the desktop is(between the guitar and the right tower). Is that a good place to put the sub ?
LL
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post #1188 of 2862 Old 04-14-2010, 06:26 PM
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Your bass output is more dependent on the source. Put in a good DVD or Blue ray disc, there's been plenty of suggested movies here.
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post #1189 of 2862 Old 04-15-2010, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by zippo775 View Post

Your bass output is more dependent on the source. Put in a good DVD or Blue ray disc, there's been plenty of suggested movies here.

+1

When watching OTA TV, often the sub cuts out because there isn't enough of a bass enhancement signal to keep the sub on for an extended period of time--especially at lower volume (Eg. news).

One TV show in particular does keep the sub going -- NCIS: Los Angeles. They have juiced up the LFE a bit more than in other shows (that I've noticed).
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post #1190 of 2862 Old 04-15-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

+1

When watching OTA TV, often the sub cuts out because there isn't enough of a bass enhancement signal to keep the sub on for an extended period of time--especially at lower volume (Eg. news).

One TV show in particular does keep the sub going -- NCIS: Los Angeles. They have juiced up the LFE a bit more than in other shows (that I've noticed).

Thanks Guys. I watched Ironman and Darknight last weekend. I should have been blown away if everything worked fine. But i wasnt. Like i said, i had to crank the volume in the receiver to hear a decent bass. I will do more testing this weekend with the Auralex Gramma and try adjusting the sub/avr settings. Will get back to you after that.
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post #1191 of 2862 Old 04-15-2010, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

Thanks Guys. I watched Ironman and Darknight last weekend. I should have been blown away if everything worked fine. But i wasnt. Like i said, i had to crank the volume in the receiver to hear a decent bass. I will do more testing this weekend with the Auralex Gramma and try adjusting the sub/avr settings. Will get back to you after that.

As already said it's defineatly a sourse issue, you can't expect to have deep rumbling base watching the news. If you're watching one of the many new shows, CSI's, Mentalist..., that are broadcast in 5.1, then you will hear some good sound from all the speakers, sub included, especially if you subscribe to HD. If it's not sent out in 5.1 then your just listening to a poor sourse and can't expect much bass/punch. IF you watched a bluray and didn't get a good punch, especialy Ironman and Darknight, then you have a problem with the setup somewhere. Don't know where as there are many places to look and each EVR is different. Check your wiring and all AVR settings. The gramma aint gonna help! Could be your AVR isn't working properly, is it an older unit?
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post #1192 of 2862 Old 04-15-2010, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

As already said it's defineatly a sourse issue, you can't expect to have deep rumbling base watching the news. If you're watching one of the many new shows, CSI's, Mentalist..., that are broadcast in 5.1, then you will hear some good sound from all the speakers, sub included, especially if you subscribe to HD. If it's not sent out in 5.1 then your just listening to a poor sourse and can't expect much bass/punch. IF you watched a bluray and didn't get a good punch, especialy Ironman and Darknight, then you have a problem with the setup somewhere. Don't know where as there are many places to look and each EVR is different. Check your wiring and all AVR settings. The gramma aint gonna help! Could be your AVR isn't working properly, is it an older unit?

Thanks man. Its a 3 year old Onkyo 505. 7.1 with 80 watts per channel. I hope that is'nt the issue. I cant imagine going and talking to my wife about another electronic purchase. She is gonna kill me. For sure this time. :-(
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post #1193 of 2862 Old 04-16-2010, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

Thanks man. Its a 3 year old Onkyo 505. 7.1 with 80 watts per channel. I hope that is'nt the issue. I cant imagine going and talking to my wife about another electronic purchase. She is gonna kill me. For sure this time. :-(

What is it about wives and electronics? I've been "killed" numerous times.

Seriously though, I've had some setup challenges with my BIC F12 and last year's 105-watt/channel Yamaha RX-V465.

The process resulted in me using the auto-mic setup and then tweaking things manually from there such as setting all speakers to "small", keeping the Bass Out SWFR to the subwoofer only (and not the speakers), boosting the SWFR level, as well as elevating the crossover frequency.

My sub volume level is currently set at "5".

You may want to experiment with moving the sub around (if feasible) and re-running auto setup.
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post #1194 of 2862 Old 04-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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srjune: This is almost certainly AVR settings or sub position/setup. I'm sure you will get it sorted. As bigwheels alluded to, make sure you set your front speakers to "small" or set the crossover to at least "80hz" or maybe even "100hz". This will shove the lower frequency stuff over to the subwoofer where it belongs. Make sure you have your LPF/LFE setting on the AVR set to 120hz. Make sure you have the sub itself set to Dolby Digital/DTS so that the internal crossover is disabled, and ensure you have the sub connected to the subwoofer/LFE output of the receiver.

If you run the auto-setup, make sure that you change the speaker settings I mentioned AFTER! The Auto Setup will change the speaker size/crossover frequencies. If you see that the auto setup is setting your subwoofer's output to something like +12db, then you should increase the volume on the subwoofer itself and re-run the setup until it gets close +/- 3db from 0 if possible. From there, you should only have to bump it +1, or maybe +2 db for personal preference.

If you still aren't getting any decent output, I suggest you do the sub-crawl, which has been described around here quite a bit. It could be positioning and/or phase.

Good luck!

X

PS Sorry if this wasn't written coherently, I've been wanting to reply for a few days now and just rushed through it while at work!
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post #1195 of 2862 Old 04-16-2010, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

What is it about wives and electronics? I've been "killed" numerous times.

Seriously though, I've had some setup challenges with my BIC F12 and last year's 105-watt/channel Yamaha RX-V465.

The process resulted in me using the auto-mic setup and then tweaking things manually from there such as setting all speakers to "small", keeping the Bass Out SWFR to the subwoofer only (and not the speakers), boosting the SWFR level, as well as elevating the crossover frequency.

My sub volume level is currently set at "5".

You may want to experiment with moving the sub around (if feasible) and re-running auto setup.

Thanks man. Will try and manipulate the settings this weekend. On the other note, received the Auralex Gramma. It didnt improve anything. It didnt even reduce the vibrations,rattling of our hardwood floor. Thats the reason i ordered it on the first place. Thats going back. Guys dont waste yr 50 bucks.
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post #1196 of 2862 Old 04-16-2010, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by XARiUS View Post

srjune: This is almost certainly AVR settings or sub position/setup. I'm sure you will get it sorted. As bigwheels alluded to, make sure you set your front speakers to "small" or set the crossover to at least "80hz" or maybe even "100hz". This will shove the lower frequency stuff over to the subwoofer where it belongs. Make sure you have your LPF/LFE setting on the AVR set to 120hz. Make sure you have the sub itself set to Dolby Digital/DTS so that the internal crossover is disabled, and ensure you have the sub connected to the subwoofer/LFE output of the receiver.

If you run the auto-setup, make sure that you change the speaker settings I mentioned AFTER! The Auto Setup will change the speaker size/crossover frequencies. If you see that the auto setup is setting your subwoofer's output to something like +12db, then you should increase the volume on the subwoofer itself and re-run the setup until it gets close +/- 3db from 0 if possible. From there, you should only have to bump it +1, or maybe +2 db for personal preference.

If you still aren't getting any decent output, I suggest you do the sub-crawl, which has been described around here quite a bit. It could be positioning and/or phase.

Good luck!

X

PS Sorry if this wasn't written coherently, I've been wanting to reply for a few days now and just rushed through it while at work!

Hey no problems man. Appreciate yr help. Will read through everybody's advice and will try to improve the Subs performance. Thanks everyone.
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post #1197 of 2862 Old 04-17-2010, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by srjune1101 View Post

Thanks man. Will try and manipulate the settings this weekend. On the other note, received the Auralex Gramma. It didnt improve anything. It didnt even reduce the vibrations,rattling of our hardwood floor. Thats the reason i ordered it on the first place. Thats going back. Guys dont waste yr 50 bucks.

Just wondering why you went with the Auralex Gramma instead of the SubDude HD.

fwiw, I used the foam block "feet" that shipped with the BIC F12. I shaved off the sides using a hacksaw so that you can't really see anything except underneath the sub (and plan on spraypainting the blocks black in the future). Not sure if this will help your situation (I've got a raised wooden floor on top of concrete in the basement), but it may help to reduce vibrations and rattlings. And it's free! (did I mention it's free? )
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post #1198 of 2862 Old 04-17-2010, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XARiUS View Post

srjune: This is almost certainly AVR settings or sub position/setup. I'm sure you will get it sorted. As bigwheels alluded to, make sure you set your front speakers to "small" or set the crossover to at least "80hz" or maybe even "100hz". This will shove the lower frequency stuff over to the subwoofer where it belongs. Make sure you have your LPF/LFE setting on the AVR set to 120hz. Make sure you have the sub itself set to Dolby Digital/DTS so that the internal crossover is disabled, and ensure you have the sub connected to the subwoofer/LFE output of the receiver.

If you run the auto-setup, make sure that you change the speaker settings I mentioned AFTER! The Auto Setup will change the speaker size/crossover frequencies. If you see that the auto setup is setting your subwoofer's output to something like +12db, then you should increase the volume on the subwoofer itself and re-run the setup until it gets close +/- 3db from 0 if possible. From there, you should only have to bump it +1, or maybe +2 db for personal preference.

If you still aren't getting any decent output, I suggest you do the sub-crawl, which has been described around here quite a bit. It could be positioning and/or phase.

Good luck!

X

PS Sorry if this wasn't written coherently, I've been wanting to reply for a few days now and just rushed through it while at work!

Nope, that was perfectly coherent, well done.
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post #1199 of 2862 Old 04-19-2010, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bigwheels1 View Post

Just wondering why you went with the Auralex Gramma instead of the SubDude HD.

fwiw, I used the foam block "feet" that shipped with the BIC F12. I shaved off the sides using a hacksaw so that you can't really see anything except underneath the sub (and plan on spraypainting the blocks black in the future). Not sure if this will help your situation (I've got a raised wooden floor on top of concrete in the basement), but it may help to reduce vibrations and rattlings. And it's free! (did I mention it's free? )

Thanks. Gramma is bigger than the Subdude. Subdude will be a real tight fit for this Sub. So i went with the Gramma. They both cost the same though. I will try and see if the foam block helps.
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post #1200 of 2862 Old 04-20-2010, 07:41 PM
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Got my F-12 pair today from BLT. BLT is an awesome service oriented company, or at least they were for me.

Haven't plugged mine up yet but they look very nice for the money!

Clay

With that wattage, the voice coil is now a Rail Gun. You get 1 note, but it will be memorable! - JEFFakaMAX
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