BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Spoken like a true American. It's spelled Canadian not Canadien and no, smarties are their own entity. M&M's are also sold here and different in size etc. Smarties are popular in Canada and other European countries and are made by the same people who make Aero, Kit Kat and After Eights. They also make Nescafe coffee

Holy cow Danny boy, relax, a faux pas on the spelling I'm sure. I was surprised to hear you don't have smarties in the US, you must! I didn't know all that info about the maker though, thanks man.

My sub has gone from Oklahoma to Illinois to Ohio and it just left Ohio @ 8:02pm, on the way to the border and those nice guys and gals at customs. Lets hope it's the night shift and they're not too full of themselves and let it slide right through. I'm supposed to get it tomorrow! I'll elt yoa know.

Too bad about the delivery mess on yours Gewow. You can cancel and get your money back then order another when you find it for $175, I'm sure there will be more at that rate.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:48 PM
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I would cancel and order from someone else just on the principle of them screwing you over in the first place. They shouldn't take payment and have nothing in stock, that's called pre-ordering and I don't think they told you that when you paid them. It's going on what..3 weeks and still nothing in sight? Call and tell them you want a refund, order it from HD.ca for $365 and get it in a few days I think it includes shipping cost also.
Maybe that's a bit harsh to do but it seems that they haven't been upfront with you.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

I would cancel and order from someone else just on the principle of them screwing you over in the first place. They shouldn't take payment and have nothing in stock, that's called pre-ordering and I don't think they told you that when you paid them. It's going on what..3 weeks and still nothing in sight? Call and tell them you want a refund, order it from HD.ca for $365 and get it in a few days I think it includes shipping cost also.
Maybe that's a bit harsh to do but it seems that they haven't been upfront with you.

He's right, cancel and move on. I don't think it's harsh at all. When I ordered mine it was on back order, she emailed right away to tell me so and asked if I would like to cancel, that wouldn't be a problem. She even phoned to explain that her supplier said by the end of the week, and indeed it was. She called again to tell me it was in and had been shipped too. Sounds like your seller isn't all that good so far.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:05 AM
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Well fellow bass lovers, my F12 arrived in Windsor Ontario from Ohio @ 8:46 this morning, meaning, unless they get delayed in traffic I should be getting it later today. Think I'll stay home from work cuz Windsor is only a 5 hour drive. hmm, maybe I won't get it till tomorrow, better go to work.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

Well fellow bass lovers, my F12 arrived in Windsor Ontario from Ohio @ 8:46 this morning, meaning, unless they get delayed in traffic I should be getting it later today. Think I'll stay home from work cuz Windsor is only a 5 hour drive. hmm, maybe I won't get it till tomorrow, better go to work.

hahahaha! it's like the stork is coming with your baby
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

hahahaha! it's like the stork is coming with your baby

Silly huh, can't believe I'm so excited about a bloody woofer. I don't know, speakers have always turned my crank. I go to my buddies store and he's got these $75,000 speakers, can't remember the make. 2inch thick aluminum boxes, more than 500 pound each, 2 teirs, 2 woofers in the bottom and a mid and tweater in the top teir, bout 4 foot tall. These things blew me away, damn near took me to tears it sounded so good. Then he turned on the 2 matching subs, $15,000 each, and from 20 feet back I could feel the air movement this system created. That sort of thing amazes me and I take it from all the forums/threads many of you are the same.
Subs not here yet, looks like it hasn't left Windsor yet from the UPS tracking site. Hope that doesn't mean some anal dickweed from customs is taking it apart!
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:26 PM
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I did not reveice my sub today but I did get some great news. I emailed UPS and because the indicated value was less than $20.00 there will be,
"NO fee's at all applied to my shipment."
No duty or brokerage fee! How bout that. Guess I'll have to pay a few bucks tax, maybe not even that but it will be delivered tomorrow she said. After I get it and make my ears bleed a bit I'll let ya'll know.

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Old 04-07-2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I did not reveice my sub today but I did get some great news. I emailed UPS and because the indicated value was less than $20.00 there will be,
"NO fee's at all applied to my shipment."
No duty or brokerage fee! How bout that. Guess I'll have to pay a few bucks tax, maybe not even that but it will be delivered tomorrow she said. After I get it and make my ears bleed a bit I'll let ya'll know.


I guess your getting excited..ehh? Hope you are happy with it. Did twisted declare that value, or is that something you took care of yourself? It's pretty nice of them to do that if they declared the value lower than it actually is.


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Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

Spoken like a true American. It's spelled Canadian not Canadien and no, smarties are their own entity. M&M's are also sold here and different in size etc. Smarties are popular in Canada and other European countries and are made by the same people who make Aero, Kit Kat and After Eights. They also make Nescafe coffee

Sorry for the mis-spell, no offense meant. I guess I should use a spellchecker once in awhile. I've never seen "Smarties" in the U.S. I suppose they might be sold somewhere here, but not anywhere near me.

The reason I know "Smarties" is because I ate them once..in Canada, lol. Sure tasted like a M&M to me.

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Old 04-07-2009, 07:34 PM
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It's all in good fun. It's always difficult to know if somebody is joking or not online..but it was all fun intended

Smarties are good, just an anorexic version of the M&M.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

I guess your getting excited..ehh? Hope you are happy with it. Did twisted declare that value, or is that something you took care of yourself? It's pretty nice of them to do that if they declared the value lower than it actually is.




Sorry for the mis-spell, no offense meant. I guess I should use a spellchecker once in awhile. I've never seen "Smarties" in the U.S. I suppose they might be sold somewhere here, but not anywhere near me.

The reason I know "Smarties" is because I ate them once..in Canada, lol. Sure tasted like a M&M to me.

Twisted Sister called to let me know it was in stock, I told her I was nervous about duty and brokerage fees, she said "don't worry I'll give it a value of $15 or $20 and she did. Because the value is $20 or less there is no duty or brokerage fee, I think no tax as well, same as if it was declared as a gift. Somethin to keep in mind when buying from USA all you Canadiens. Some sellers WILL NOT under estimate the value for you though some contact them first before bid.
UPS says it left for delivery at 7:07am and the depot is very close, I think this morning... like a kid in a candy store is how I feel. Should have some thoughts and maybe a couple of pics tonight.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:42 PM
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Well gentlemen, it's been a very good day! 3:30 UPS guy opens the door, puts my speaker on the floor and says 'let the party begin you have your speaker.' Said have a great day and walked away, no taxes, no duty, no brokerage, no nothin!
Why anyone would want more bass than this thing provides is beyond me. Unless you have a seriously large room this will be sufficient and then some. I have it hooked up via sub out or LFE and turned to 3 as you'll see if my pics, and it is TONS-o-bass. I've listened to music from CD and my I-Phone and watched a few snippets of movies/concerts. Unfortunately, my bluray player won't play bluray, going in under warranty soon, but it does play DVD and CD's. I watched the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, the beach scene, HOLY ****! (hope I can swear on this forum) I watched a bit of Eagles-Hell Freezes Over, WOW. Some of the most bass intense parts I've experienced so far shook me and the room but when I looked at the driver it was hardly moving, no where near it's capacity, but I could still feel it in my chest, awesome. I'm no audiophile, or is that audiofile, but I know what I like and this is intense. It's tight, not boomy, sounds like it's coming from all over not from the direction of the sub. When I look into my surround speakers it sounds like the bass is coming from them.
I've added a couple of pics of my now antique Advents with the cool orange tweeter and the equally ancient PSB's, both of which still sound increadible after a woofer surround transplant. Good job if I don't say so myself.
If you were thinking about this sub, jump in it will satisfy!!!
Looks like I'll have to make another post for more pics... I'll do the pics of my old speakers in a new post.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:44 PM
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Yeah i'm glad your happy with it, but i used to use the H100 at 10 and still turn my reciever way up. I wasn't happy with it, so i got another. Still wasn't. I guess people's view of enough bass is different. Good thing yours is low. Save you money.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolt View Post

Yeah i'm glad your happy with it, but i used to use the H100 at 10 and still turn my reciever way up. I wasn't happy with it, so i got another. Still wasn't. I guess people's view of enough bass is different. Good thing yours is low. Save you money.

Obviously something wasn't right in your setup. If you had the H-100 gain adjusted to 10 and your avrs sub level set correctly you would have been overdriving the sub well past it's limits, something else was amiss in that scenario. I'm not saying the sub would have satisfied you as you're correct, peoples view of enough bass is different but those numbers are way off.

I had the H-100 gain set to 4 and my avr sub level at 0 which has been fairly consistent with every other sub I've used in the system and it amazed me for a budget sub at it's price point.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:50 PM
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Thats true, i had no idea how to properly calibrate the sub for my setup, still don't really because my reciever isn't up to par with my speakers. I'm still learning.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:51 PM
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The old speakers...
And btw the sub came in the door @ $275 Canadian!
LL
LL
LL
LL
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:25 AM
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Thats true, i had no idea how to properly calibrate the sub for my setup, still don't really because my reciever isn't up to par with my speakers. I'm still learning.

I don't get it, there is no calibration needed. Ya plug it in properly, power it up, turn on your music and go. Start with sub setting at 0 and go up from there. Fine tune to your ears liking. I have not turned mine past 4, I then put it back to 3 - 3 1/2 and that is as far as I need it. My AVR sub setting is normally 0, I play with that a bit getting it right for the audio I'm playing. RUSH needs to be set at -3, too much kick drum and Geddi's bass plucking is huge! My home is 3400 sq ft and the bass is clear in every room. I'm at the front upper level and the system is down stairs back of house. I have Sade on, AVR sub setting @ o and sub volume @ 3.5 and I can still feel the bass in the floor and on my computer desk, volume at 60% or so. Like I said earlier, why anyone would want more bass is beyond me. During Armageddon on DVD last night the fly by scenes and shuttle lift off and other various scenes were crazy loud, couch shaking, feel it in your chest! I did notice after 45 minutes of some serious RUSH the back of the sub was pretty hot, not too hot to touch but it was working, and my ears feel like I've been to a concert.
I would highly recommend this sub to anyone looking to beef up their 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 system, I don't think Splicer boy is correct in saying there are subs in this price range that will beat it, I just can't see it. I haven't heard the ones he's talking about so I may be wrong but I have heard subs 2, 3 and 4 times the price and they don't do enough of an incremental difference to justify the price, some did not have the punch or clarity of the F12.
Very happy with this purchase!
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:29 AM
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quick addition. the driver travel is hard to gauge cuz it moves so quick but it seems to be moving no more than 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch and I've heard it's capable of somewhere around 2 inches of travel.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:00 PM
 
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You're funny...
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:19 PM
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I'm still considering the F12, however the PA-120 is tempting as I can get either for about $200 shipped. What do you guys think? The PA is reviewed as hitting 23Hz before dropping off and is rated 50w RMS higher. For just a couple bucks more, it seems to be a better sub... Anyone know if the PA uses a foam surround or not?

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I don't get it, there is no calibration needed. Ya plug it in properly, power it up, turn on your music and go. Start with sub setting at 0 and go up from there. Fine tune to your ears liking. I have not turned mine past 4, I then put it back to 3 - 3 1/2 and that is as far as I need it. My AVR sub setting is normally 0, I play with that a bit getting it right for the audio I'm playing. RUSH needs to be set at -3, too much kick drum and Geddi's bass plucking is huge! My home is 3400 sq ft and the bass is clear in every room. I'm at the front upper level and the system is down stairs back of house. I have Sade on, AVR sub setting @ o and sub volume @ 3.5 and I can still feel the bass in the floor and on my computer desk, volume at 60% or so. Like I said earlier, why anyone would want more bass is beyond me. During Armageddon on DVD last night the fly by scenes and shuttle lift off and other various scenes were crazy loud, couch shaking, feel it in your chest! I did notice after 45 minutes of some serious RUSH the back of the sub was pretty hot, not too hot to touch but it was working, and my ears feel like I've been to a concert.
I would highly recommend this sub to anyone looking to beef up their 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 system, I don't think Splicer boy is correct in saying there are subs in this price range that will beat it, I just can't see it. I haven't heard the ones he's talking about so I may be wrong but I have heard subs 2, 3 and 4 times the price and they don't do enough of an incremental difference to justify the price, some did not have the punch or clarity of the F12.
Very happy with this purchase!

You're and my setup sound pretty similar Sound Master. Your home sq. footage is a little more than mine though. My AVR sub settings are set to -4 with movies, and +3 for music. I usually run my F12 in the 4/5 gain range and there is plenty of bass at that gain level. Subwoofer performance has alot do with room acoustics, placement, and the AVR you are using. Glad your are happy with it..enjoy!

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I'm still considering the F12, however the PA-120 is tempting as I can get either for about $200 shipped. What do you guys think? The PA is reviewed as hitting 23Hz before dropping off and is rated 50w RMS higher. For just a couple bucks more, it seems to be a better sub... Anyone know if the PA uses a foam surround or not?

I suspect the PA-120 and F12 are pretty similar sound wise. You might here slightly better performance with the 120..you might not? Room setup, and acoustics will make a difference..imo. If it matters to you, the F12 has a full 5 year warranty on ALL parts. The PA-120 warrants the amp for (2) years and the woofer for 5..that might be something for you to consider?

It also seems that BIC's warranty service is excellent, and that might help your decision also. I haven't heard about Premier Acoustics warranty service at all..so I can't comment on what would happen if something went wrong with the PA-120 down the line.

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Old 04-11-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

You're funny...

you men funny hah ha or funny coo coo?
I thought I was being nice Splice, I edited my post more than once regarding your name... you seem to be the odd man out on this forum.
I don't know the PA-120, if it is the equal or better than the F12 GO FOR IT! What are you waiting for, either one will bring you all the bass you want, warranty should be considered though. I'm taking my SONY bluray player in for service today, had it less than a year and used it VERY seldom, maybe 20 times. Plays DVD's and CD's but not bluray's! Go figure.
I find that I can to turn the F12 up a bit more for movies, of course newer blurays may be different-may need less, than I do for music. Older music, Stones, Zepelin... I can set the AVR sub setting to +1 or +3 but newer music 0 or even minus. Movies it's set a little higher maybe 0 to +2 or 3. Either way the gain on the sub amp is set to 3 1/2 and I think that where it will stay. Minor tweeking with the AVR sub setting is all that's needed and done easily by remote.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:29 AM
 
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you men funny hah ha or funny coo coo?
I thought I was being nice Splice, I edited my post more than once regarding your name...


I meant the latter...That was as polite a response as I could come up with...2" of Xmax with the F12!? THAT was funniest of all...You were lied to whoever said that...At BEST...and I sincerely doubt it would go this far...the F12 might go as far as 3/8 of an inch...$600 drivers ALONE only have a tad over 1 inch of travel...

Bic got you with their marketing...I am glad you are happy with your sub and as it sounds like it is your first sub you should be happy...Nothing to feel ashamed about...You were sold a 10" driver with a 2" surround...Oh yeah...and a 450 watt PEAK amplifier...

Enjoy it for now...Soon enough you will be ready for a REAL sub that costs the same or a little more when you do your research and the blinders come off...It happens to the best of us...The upgrade bug will bite...
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:54 AM
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At BEST...and I sincerely doubt it would go this far...the F12 might go as far as 3/8 of an inch...$600 drivers ALONE only have a tad over 1 inch of travel...

Bic got you with their marketing... You were sold a 10" driver with a 2" surround...Oh yeah...and a 450 watt PEAK amplifier...

Enjoy it for now...Soon enough you will be ready for a REAL sub that costs the same or a little more when you do your research and the blinders come off...It happens to the best of us...The upgrade bug will bite...

You're right that it would take a monster sub to have 2 inches of Xmax, but there are plenty of drivers out there under $600 that would pull off 1"- particularly in the car audio arena.

I doubt Bic got him with marketing as no where on their website do they give Xmax numbers.

What constitutes a "real" sub? Pretty sure any driver 8" or larger with a low-pass crossover and around 100w of amplification qualifies. I'm sure the upgrade bug can bite just about anyone, but I've owned a Z-5500 set for years and the 10", 33Hz sub in that unit NEVER made me think I needed something more powerful. I'm only upgrading because I'm getting a real receiver for HDMI switching. For me, a 12" driver that goes down to 23-25Hz is going to keep me satisfied for years to come.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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If we were talking about car audio I would redily agree with you...

My marketing comment was as a whole...Not one thing in particular...

IIRC the Z5500 is a computer speaker kit isn't it??? Not that there is anything wrong with that but as I said...and you admit to...the upgrade bug will hit when you want a sub that will hit lower and in all probability...hit harder as well...

Like todays overuse of the term 'HD'...'Subwoofer' is also overused...Something that is nothing more than a powered or amplified woofer...today is labeled as a subwoofer....when in fact these two terms have different meanings...

Regardless I am saying to enjoy what you have...I have never stated that the Bicsucked...or that it wasn't worth the price...I stated I myself would not buy one for the simple fact I don't like the marketing techniques Bic uses and that for close to the same price better can be had...I am not attempting to make anyone feel bad...Just trying to open some eyes...
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

If we were talking about car audio I would redily agree with you...

IIRC the Z5500 is a computer speaker kit isn't it???

Like todays overuse of the term 'HD'...'Subwoofer' is also overused...Something that is nothing more than a powered or amplified woofer...today is labeled as a subwoofer....when in fact these two terms have different meanings...

Car audio subs have been used frequently in home audio, particularly in DIY applications. A sub is a sub, the location (car, home, outdoors, concert hall etc) doesn't change its function or properties. Some drivers are suited better for certain applications of course, but there is plenty of cross-over.

Yeah, the Z-5500 is a PC set that has a head unit that acts as a mini-receiver. Does onboard DD, DTS, DD 96/24 and DD Pro Logic II as well as PCM. Supports 6 channel analog input as well as digital coaxial and optical. Much better sounding than any HTiB I've heard and cheaper as well. Obviously not a fully equipped as a real AVR (which is why I'm upgrading), but the sound was quite acceptable.

A sub is defined as any speaker typically from 8-15" that produces the lower end of the audio spectrum, usually 100Hz and below according to many sources including hometheater.com. Therefore the F12 is a "real" sub by even the strictest of definitions- design by HSU research and having very similar specs as their own lower end lineup. It's certainly not the best sub on the market, but it is a well received and reviewed model in this price range and certainly better than most subs you'd find at electronics retail stores such as Best Buy.

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:37 PM
 
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Not wishing to continue with this as I have made my point and obviously people don't want to believe...I will agree to dis-agree and leave it at that...The information is out there...all you have to do is look for it...
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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I think trying to impress on someone that there are better subs out there is completely pointless. What is 'better' to you might sound 'worse' to someone else. All that matters is that they love the way it sounds and it does all they ask of it. Whether that costs $100 or $1000 is totally dependant on the personal taste of the owner. Nothing else anyone says matters and telling people 'there are better subs out there for the money' or any speaker for that matter is like trying to tell them how they should hear things.
If you find the F12 performs brilliantly then you have no need or reason to buy a more expensive sub. The fact a different person thinks the PA-120 or any other sub 'sounds' better or 'performs' better is irrelevant. In the end it all comes down to finding components that you truly enjoy...if you can do that for $275 then you're a step ahead of alot of people out there who 'need' to spend $600 or $1000 on a sub to satisfy their 'taste'. To each their own...

Congrats on your new sub!! I'm glad it performs so well for you...you got a great deal for sure although it did take awhile.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:49 PM
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Well, just found out I can get the PA-120 for a grand total of $200, so it looks like I'll be going that direction. That should put a smile on 'ole Splicer's face

It's not a true home theater unless you have a projector. Oh, and popcorn.
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:00 PM
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Sounds like an awesome deal. It would be nice to buy both and see which works better
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I don't get it, there is no calibration needed.

Calibrating, tweaking, trial and error, trying different placement options or knowing which is best for your room, running graphs and probably eq, etc etc etc is always needed to get the best out of a sub no matter which it is. I would guess the norm is the person is not willing to go to that extent and is happy with the plug and play results which is all that matters but it's not optimal.
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