BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 81 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2401 of 2839 Old 02-28-2012, 06:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

received the sub today.

i connected it and ran audyssey

first i set the volume on back of the sub to 3.5
audyssey set the sub at -12 and around 15 feet or so distance.

so i lowered the volume to 3. i reran audyssey again to try and get as close to 0 as i can.

audyssey then set the sub to -12 (again?!?) and distance was like 24 feet

not sure if anythings wrong but it stayed at -12. should i lower the sub volume to 2.5? that seems pretty low or maybe i just got a defective sub. i hate rerunning audyssey if its just gonna stay at -12

Keep reducing it until you get it closer to 0. This Bic is notorious for having to be set very low to get within acceptable range for Audyssey.
Tom Ames is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2402 of 2839 Old 02-28-2012, 06:50 PM
Member
 
dillpickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post

Keep reducing it until you get it closer to 0. This Bic is notorious for having to be set very low to get within acceptable range for Audyssey.

-12 is the highest negative trim level that is set by Audyssey, so you need to keep reducing the sub volume until you get a different number (even if it is something like -11). Otherwise, you can't be assured your sub is set to ref level.

Check out this post from the Audyssey web site....
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/forums/...ies/76175.html
dillpickle is offline  
post #2403 of 2839 Old 02-28-2012, 06:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
thanks guys ill rerun again tomorrow
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2404 of 2839 Old 02-29-2012, 07:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Sound Master BIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

received the sub today.

i connected it and ran audyssey

first i set the volume on back of the sub to 3.5
audyssey set the sub at -12 and around 15 feet or so distance.

so i lowered the volume to 3. i reran audyssey again to try and get as close to 0 as i can.

audyssey then set the sub to -12 (again?!?) and distance was like 24 feet

not sure if anythings wrong but it stayed at -12. should i lower the sub volume to 2.5? that seems pretty low or maybe i just got a defective sub. i hate rerunning audyssey if its just gonna stay at -12

I think people put way too much importance on these different set up tools like Audyssey, mine is a Yammi, can't remember what it's setup tool is called. I used it to make sure all wiring was correct and gave me a base to start then I changed most of the settings slightly from there. Mess with it till it sounds good but stop wasting so much of your time with Audyssey and enjoy. This aint rocket science.
Sound Master BIC is offline  
post #2405 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 05:40 AM
Member
 
dillpickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post


I think people put way too much importance on these different set up tools like Audyssey, mine is a Yammi, can't remember what it's setup tool is called. I used it to make sure all wiring was correct and gave me a base to start then I changed most of the settings slightly from there. Mess with it till it sounds good but stop wasting so much of your time with Audyssey and enjoy. This aint rocket science.

With respect, the OP isn't wasting his time with Audyssey. Just as you did with YPAO, he is using Audyssey to give him a base from which to start. The problem is, his subwoofer is registering too high relative to the other speakers, and outside the range of what the AVR can adjust. Room correction may not be rocket science, but it isn't simple, either. That's why tools like Audyssey exist on all levels of AVRs.
dillpickle is offline  
post #2406 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 06:25 AM
Member
 
elvinps2626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi guys,
I just bought the BIC F12 online waiting for it to arrive. If I do the subwoofer crawl to listen where the best position for the subwoofer is, do I have to run the Audyssey first from my listening position or do I have put the subwoofer in the listening position listen to music and when I finish listening where the best position is then I do the Audyssey set up from the correct position. I have a Denon 1712 receiver
elvinps2626 is offline  
post #2407 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 09:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Tom Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvinps2626 View Post

Hi guys,
I just bought the BIC F12 online waiting for it to arrive. If I do the subwoofer crawl to listen where the best position for the subwoofer is, do I have to run the Audyssey first from my listening position or do I have put the subwoofer in the listening position listen to music and when I finish listening where the best position is then I do the Audyssey set up from the correct position. I have a Denon 1712 receiver

Run Audyssey after you have completed the sub crawl and placed your sub in it's "permanent" position.
Tom Ames is offline  
post #2408 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 12:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
man i tried running audyssey two more times. now the gain on the sub is set to just below 2 and audyssey set channel level at -9.5

should i just leave it at that and just raise the level on the avr? im thinking up to 3

but if ill miss out on better sound ill just run audyssey again and lower the sub. frustrating
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2409 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Senior Member
 
zippo775's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

man i tried running audyssey two more times. now the gain on the sub is set to just below 2 and audyssey set channel level at -9.5

should i just leave it at that and just raise the level on the avr? im thinking up to 3

but if ill miss out on better sound ill just run audyssey again and lower the sub. frustrating

Yup raise it till you're enjoying the output. Put the sub on 4or5 first
zippo775 is offline  
post #2410 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

man i tried running audyssey two more times. now the gain on the sub is set to just below 2 and audyssey set channel level at -9.5

should i just leave it at that and just raise the level on the avr? im thinking up to 3

but if ill miss out on better sound ill just run audyssey again and lower the sub. frustrating

No reason to be frustrated. Leave it there, and listen to it as Audyssey has set it for several days. After that, if you feel you are missing something from your sub, raise the sub level on your avr--not on the sub itself.

I have a feeling that you won't feel like you will need to increase the level unless you have a huge area to fill.
Tom Ames is offline  
post #2411 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 01:41 PM
Member
 
elvinps2626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post


Run Audyssey after you have completed the sub crawl and placed your sub in it's "permanent" position.

Ok I'll do that
elvinps2626 is offline  
post #2412 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Member
 
dillpickle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post


No reason to be frustrated. Leave it there, and listen to it as Audyssey has set it for several days. After that, if you feel you are missing something from your sub, raise the sub level on your avr--not on the sub itself.

I have a feeling that you won't feel like you will need to increase the level unless you have a huge area to fill.

+1

Whether you leave the sub volume where it is with the -9.5 trim, or raise the sub volume and Audyssey trims to something like -4.5, the net output will be the same. Like Tom said, leave it where it is, and bump up the sub channel on the AVR if you want more oomph.
dillpickle is offline  
post #2413 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 07:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
thanks guys but i decided to run audyssey again.

im getting closer to 0 with sub level but now the fronts or center (cant remember), are being set at 90 for crossover (having run audyssey twice now). i understand i cant lower them to 80, only raise them to 80. is there a reason why they are being set at 90? i understand i have to redo audyssey until i get them set at 80 or below.
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2414 of 2839 Old 03-01-2012, 08:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Tom Ames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

thanks guys but i decided to run audyssey again.

im getting closer to 0 with sub level but now the fronts or center (cant remember), are being set at 90 for crossover (having run audyssey twice now). i understand i cant lower them to 80, only raise them to 80. is there a reason why they are being set at 90? i understand i have to redo audyssey until i get them set at 80 or below.

No, no, no. No wonder you have been frustrated during this process. You do not have to keep running Audyssey until they are set below 80.

Leave them set to 90. The reason 80 is regarded as a "standard" or "ideal", is that at 80hz and below, people are generally unable to locate where the sub is placed. You should be fine with any speakers set to 90 if that is what your avr recommends after you run Audyssey.

If Audyssey recommends any of your speakers to be set below 80, raise them to 80. Also, be sure that on the back of your sub, the crossover setting (I think that is what it's called on the Bic), is set to it's maximum setting.
Tom Ames is offline  
post #2415 of 2839 Old 03-02-2012, 04:19 AM
Member
 
Cal516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi! I too have just installed a new BIC and am having similar problems getting the initial setting anywhere close to 75db. Got it to 85 once but the result is virtually no output from the sub. Have you solved this yet? What are your sub settings? Mine: gain just below 2 (roughly 7 O'Clock), auto, 0 phase, DD, cross-over at max, connected by LFE. Audyssey produces -6.5 but even raising AVR to +3 yields almost no detectable output from sub. To get output I must raise the sub gain to about 9 O'Clock which produces about 95db on setup and drives Audyssey's setting to -12.

My speaker crossover settings are:
R/L at 80 (Mirage OMD-15s)
C at 40 (Mirage OMDC1)
RW/LW & Surrounds at 100 (Mirage NanoSats)

I've tried raising the center to 80 but the result is a less full center with no detectable difference at sub.
Cal516 is offline  
post #2416 of 2839 Old 03-02-2012, 11:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
im just going to lower the sub to 1.5 and see if that gets audyssey to set it near 0
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2417 of 2839 Old 03-02-2012, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JChin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mesquite Tx
Posts: 8,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

im just going to lower the sub to 1.5 and see if that gets audyssey to set it near 0

Hi Luisfc1972, have you done a sub crawl to determine the best location in your room to place the subwoofer?
JChin is offline  
post #2418 of 2839 Old 03-02-2012, 09:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Sound Master BIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
C
Sound Master BIC is offline  
post #2419 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Member
 
danielsan4610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After reading through the thread, I'm a little confused with the set up.

I initially had the volume on my F12 to 3, crossover at max, phase at 0 and receiver to digital.

Audyssey set the sub at -11.0db which basically made bass non-existent. It also set the crossover to 80hz.

From what I'm reading, I've seen people mention to keep running Audyssey until you get the db as close to 0db as possible. How is this possible?

I ended up changing the crossover to 120hz, increasing the db to 0 on the receiver and changed the gain on the sub to 4.

It sounds pretty good right now but I'm sure it could sound even better. Does it sound like I did the right thing or should I be doing something else?
danielsan4610 is offline  
post #2420 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 09:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi Luisfc1972, have you done a sub crawl to determine the best location in your room to place the subwoofer?

no, theres only one area in the room where the sub can be placed. room is pretty small.
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2421 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 09:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

After reading through the thread, I'm a little confused with the set up.

I initially had the volume on my F12 to 3, crossover at max, phase at 0 and receiver to digital.

Audyssey set the sub at -11.0db which basically made bass non-existent. It also set the crossover to 80hz.

From what I'm reading, I've seen people mention to keep running Audyssey until you get the db as close to 0db as possible. How is this possible?

I ended up changing the crossover to 120hz, increasing the db to 0 on the receiver and changed the gain on the sub to 4.

It sounds pretty good right now but I'm sure it could sound even better. Does it sound like I did the right thing or should I be doing something else?

you have to lower the gain on the sub, then rerun audyssey. repeat until you get close enough to 0 where you are satisfied.
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2422 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 09:53 AM
Member
 
danielsan4610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

you have to lower the gain on the sub, then rerun audyssey. repeat until you get close enough to 0 where you are satisfied.

I guess my question is what is the difference between Audyssey setting my sub to 0db versus me going in and manually setting it to 0db? Is Audyssey making additional tweaks?
danielsan4610 is offline  
post #2423 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 10:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

From what I'm reading, I've seen people mention to keep running Audyssey until you get the db as close to 0db as possible. How is this possible?

You want to turn the gain(volume) down on the back of your sub far enough that Audyssey sets the channel level close to 0. Even if it seems lower than you think it needs to be. One reason for this is that it best optimizes the sensitivity of your sub amplifier to receive audio signal from the receiver. Bass can be more nuanced and defined.

Once you do that, you can always crank up the bass a few db by adjusting the sub channel on your receiver.

cel4145 is online now  
post #2424 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 11:09 AM
Member
 
danielsan4610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You want to turn the gain(volume) down on the back of your sub far enough that Audyssey sets the channel level close to 0. Even if it seems lower than you think it needs to be. One reason for this is that it best optimizes the sensitivity of your sub amplifier to receive audio signal from the receiver. Bass can be more nuanced and defined.

Once you do that, you can always crank up the bass a few db by adjusting the sub channel on your receiver.

Thanks, that explains it. Once I get Audyssey close to 0db, do you think it would be better to increase the level via the receiver or the gain on the sub?
danielsan4610 is offline  
post #2425 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 12:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

Thanks, that explains it. Once I get Audyssey close to 0db, do you think it would be better to increase the level via the receiver or the gain on the sub?

Most people recommend via the receiver since when you start turning that gain knob up and down, it's hard to get exactly back in the right place.

cel4145 is online now  
post #2426 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 03:36 PM
Member
 
danielsan4610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One more question. This has been asked but I've seen different responses.

F12 at 80hz or 120hz crossover for LFE?
danielsan4610 is offline  
post #2427 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Luisfc1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
120
Luisfc1972 is offline  
post #2428 of 2839 Old 03-06-2012, 08:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Sound Master BIC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

I guess my question is what is the difference between Audyssey setting my sub to 0db versus me going in and manually setting it to 0db? Is Audyssey making additional tweaks?

Short answer, NO!

blah, blah, blah

80hz
Sound Master BIC is offline  
post #2429 of 2839 Old 03-10-2012, 05:28 AM
Member
 
LSU fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow, just finished reading the entire thread. Lots of good info here. I'm setting up my first HT. Denon 2112ci and the Bic F12 will be here Monday. Can't wait to get everything set up and watch a movie.
LSU fan is offline  
post #2430 of 2839 Old 03-10-2012, 11:51 PM
Member
 
shatter00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Porterville,CA
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I"m joining the ranks come monday I"ll let ya'll know how it goes after setup an a few hours listening. Hopefully I don't have many issues with yammie's YPAO setup. This is replacing a 8" Klipsch HD500.1 speaker set sub.
shatter00 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off